Context: Riot's Commitment to Originality

CupcakeTrap··57 votes·7,178 views

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x3/msad99/ChosenYiRender.png

People asked for a tl;dr, so I'm giving you two of them.

TL;DR1: Look at the picture above. Imagine Narrative saying, "We can't read community lore because that'd basically be STEALING." If you laugh, you get the gist of this thread.

TL;DR2: Some people think that Narrative is claiming it cannot read fanfic, look at fan art, or read "specific story ideas" (whatever that means) because of professional integrity or legal liability. First off, I don't think they're saying that. Second, if they were saying that, they would be wrong to the point of delusion. And finally, as this thread explains, there would be something really funny about RIOT GAMES expressing anxiety over using other people's ideas (especially when those people are actively shouting, "PLEASE USE MY IDEAS").


There has been some discussion about certain Narrative team members expressing a desire to talk more about core concepts and fundamental themes than specific story ideas. Much digital ink (which is apparently a lovely off-white) has been spilled arguing about what these quotes might mean, with some going so far as to infer that Narrative flies into a panic whenever anyone says something more specific than "I think Garen should really love Demacia," and that it's not so much a preference for big-picture ideas as it is a complete ban on the very mention of actual stories or story elements. I encourage us to continue to seek clarification: does Riot have hard-and-fast rules on this? Is it just that they prefer us to talk in generalities? What about using a community-written story to illustrate an idea, e.g., "I think Jax should be a jokey badass, like in this story that someone wrote, where he's talking with Darius and refuses to say anything that doesn't involve an axe pun."

This is a discussion that should happen, no question. But I'd just like to set forth a little context, before anyone gets too anxious about "accidentally appropriating" community lore. This is primarily a joke: the real reasons why Riot shouldn't be anxious about reading community lore (just like they enjoy looking at community artwork or community Champion concepts) is that it's obviously being put forward with the purpose of enriching the League universe. If someone says, "I wish you portrayed Noxus more like this", and Riot then follows that suggestion, it's hard to imagine anyone finding fault with Riot over it. ("I demand compensation! I asked them to buff Renekton by giving him more base HP, and then they buffed Renekton by giving him more base HP!")

No, this isn't even a list of all the League characters who are obviously references to (or straight-up ripoffs of) well-known characters from other media. (Which is fine, by the way. That's kind of the whole point.) I just want to talk about history.

Every few bullet points, I encourage you to imagine Narrative saying, "Goodness! Our worst nightmare is to appropriate someone else's ideas!"

  • J.R.R. Tolkien took a bunch of myths about elves and such and created a fantasy universe.
  • Gaming appropriated elves, dwarves, orcs, and pretty much everything else to create D&D and various tabletop-esque computer games.
  • (EDIT: DG Ashabel points out that there's actually another step here. Games Workshop made Warhammer, a fantasy wargame that rips off Tolkien's settings and characters. Blizzard was like, "hey, you guys did a really good job ripping off Tolkien, we'd like to rip off your ripoff and make a computer game." However, the deal fell through, so they renamed their Warhammer project into "Warcraft" and published.)
  • Blizzard made Warcraft. It decided to use "central casting", and most of its universe is just a copy-and-paste from this Tolkien-inspired fantasy trope-stock. (EDIT: see note above; apparently, this was actually a higher-order ripoff.)
  • Some fans got together and made a Warcraft (III) mod called Defense of the Ancients (DotA). Most of the characters are stock Warcraft/Tolkien-ish-fantasy characters, with some quirky ornamentation.
  • Some members of the DotA community went off and created DotA All-Stars, and then League of Legends. Most of the characters are carbon copies of DotA heroes. Those that aren't are generally instead from some other well-known source.
  • League creates a universe. The various factions are not exactly hard to "source". You've got Arthurian Shiny Knights, you've got Arthurian Black Knights, you've got steampunk city, you've got X-Men/Shadowrun megacorp-land, you've got a bunch of monsters who are either Zerg or knockoff Lovecraftian horrors, you've got some Vikings, you've got some mermaid people, you've got Fantasy Egypt, and of course you've also got Fantasy Asia.
  • The main novelty is the idea of a "fantasy Babylon 5" or "fantasy European Union": the League of Legends, an international body where states can bring disputes and resolve them through trial by combat. They write in a history of "magical WMDs" to explain the creation of the League, a rather original re-casting of the "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario in fantasy rather than historical or science fiction context. This is quite intriguing: how might a fantasy EU/UN/WTO/whatever work differently than a sci-fi one or the historical examples, for instance? It's also a great source of political drama, as this fledgling League of Legends struggles to maintain legitimacy and keep the great powers of Valoran from destroying the planet.
  • (Riot then decides to retcon that whole League thing.)
  • Riot also makes most of its money off of skins, many of which are meant to make a character who's already a fairly direct ripoff from another source appear to be a ripoff from a completely separate source…or sometimes just to make the original ripoff even clearer. ("Hey, what if we took our character who's basically Indiana Jones plus Mega Man, and then made an Indiana Jones skin…and then also a Mega Man skin?" Or, say, "What if we took Dr. Mundo, and made a skin where he's Hulk-green?")
  • Some recent characters include a Miyazaki ripoff complete with Mononoke bobblehead minions, a sandworm from Dune, a Greek Fury, and freaking Ra the God of the freaking Sun.

I mean all this quite affectionately. As I've written elsewhere, I think League draws a lot of its strength from its tropeyness. It's easier for people to get into the setting when they instinctively recognize most of these characters. It's an amateurish mistake for writers to obsess about novelty and showing how clever and original they are; great authors know that it's about telling a compelling story and immersing the reader. These characters resonate largely because they tap into such deep reservoirs of cultural understanding. Flash up a picture of (League's) Wukong and people recognize, hey, he's going to be some kind of clever trickster with magical powers, and he's probably from Fantasy Asia.

I can't emphasize enough that I don't mean this as an attack. There's a saying: "Bad authors 'borrow' from others. Good authors steal." The question is not whether Bard is a Miyazaki ripoff, but whether he's a good Miyazaki ripoff, whether Riot is using that character type to do something interesting and immersive. Novelty is nice, sure. But what often matters more is what you do with the trope, archetype, or outright ripoff. You can go construct a fantasy universe completely out of stock Tolkien elements, and then (depending on how you write it) end up with either an awe-inspiring, amazing, even revolutionary work of literary brilliance, or a forgettable knockoff. Replacing elves with "the Yularioni", who are part squid, and sometimes travel through time, and have three arms, and blah blah blah blah, may not only fail to add much, but may in fact be a serious mistake, because now the reader is focusing on trying to understand what these creatures are rather than following the story. Maybe you should drop the six chapters of exposition about how your protagonist fits into Yularioni culture, when the end result is simply "she's magical and immortal, and loves nature"; maybe you should just refer to her as an elven enchantress and, in a single phrase, convey to the reader who this character basically is so you can tell her story, rather than the story of what she is or where she's from. (A more modest version: if you want your characters to eat a small tasty animal that's kind of cute, maybe rather than explaining what a "smeerp" is, you should just say they eat a rabbit, and chalk it up to a translation convention.) So while I might tease Riot a bit, no, I do not think it's a problem that they borrow so freely from other sources. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I myself have spent a ton of time writing League fanfic, so it's not like I'd be in any position to argue against derivative works.)

Although I do indeed mean it affectionately, I've got to add a final bullet point:

  • In the midst of a crisis over lack of community engagement, Rioters express anxiety about community members sharing ideas, even when the author of the work is the one sharing it while expressly urging Riot to adopt their ideas, because they don't want to even accidentally appropriate anyone's ideas.

Let's just keep this in context, people.

64 Comments

Xulsigae18 votes

It's most puzzling to me for Narrative to ignore the precedent both in general and in Riot for taking inspiration and ideas from peers and previous stories. There are dozens of instances of summoners affecting what happened in a story or what a champion detail was. Viktor's story, Lux's ult name and others come to mind. What makes it wrong for us now to try and have an influence in what happens in Narrative? We used to do it relatively often. Nothing major but still tangible. What makes it wrong for us to influence gameplay and art and other aspects of League but not the story? Does Morello find it stomach-churning to listen to what we think of how powerful a champion is? Does Lyte feel that feedback from those he works to improve the gameplay experience for is somehow a bad thing? I don't think so.

Narrative seems to be the black sheep now of departments. It went from very interactive with those it produced for to pretty much naught. Other departments change things often to appeal to the players. Abilities that don't feel good, art that doesn't look good, pricing that is meh, report functions that don't really do much, these all get tweaked at some point. Stories that feel meh? Those are not to be touched it seems. If they are being changed, it's usually quite hush-hush compared to most other departments. What makes Narrative different?

Also when it comes to player created content being incorporated into Riot productions, were not the TPA skins fan created at first and then bought and modified by Riot? When fans create songs, hats, models and such to show to Riot, isn't that Riot taking their ideas and showing them off for others to see with credit? I know they don't affect the lore, but they still are examples of people creating things and not demanding a reward beyond 'Yay my stuff got seen or heard by millions!' I miss Nikasaur...

Nybx4life3 votes

I assume it's a change in management.

I don't know how it was in the early days of Season 1/2/3, but I do know that normally a shift this drastic comes from up top. Now, it does seem that some Rioters are still quite open for conversation, given the popularity of my other thread, but it's not exactly the conversation people WANT.

Xulsigae3 votes

True, but it's not the best example to go from a way of interacting with people that most liked to one that most despise. I've been here since season one. It was very different. Much more open with ideas.

Narasimha2 votes

To be fair, I think that died off pretty quickly. I started back in S2, and I don't remember much from then, but I do recall that even from s3 onwards, lore was never a major topic between Riot and us. They liked to play around, and toss us teasers, but they never actually held a serious discussion other than the Q&As. To my knowledge, anyway.

Xulsigae3 votes

It was rather informal. More through letters to the Journal and community ideas becoming canon and such. Lore was a pretty big but understated thing if I remember right. Not made a big deal over because it just was there and was fun.

Narasimha1 votes

That could be a factor in their change. If it was 'understated', then it could be easy to see why they would think "Eh, doesn't seem like many people are interested, might not be so important." To play devil's advocate for a moment, its only fair to a business that if a department isn't appearing to get much attention, then its probably not something worth putting a lot of effort in. Makes you wonder, was that our fault as lore fans? Should we have been more vocal then, to avoid the issues we are having now? Ah well, hindsight is always 20/20.

Xulsigae2 votes

Not really. We were vocal by being engaged with it and enjoying what they created and debating about it. We gave it lots of attention. It was phased out even as we kept enjoying it. Not our fault at all.

Impetual1 votes

It didn't seem like a big deal because it was something that was there and well supported.

Players may have taken it for granted.

Now that it's gone, we can see the chasm it left.

Nybx4life9 votes

Quite a read, and an interesting point to be made. Honestly, I agree 100% with what you're saying. I feel there's no shame in having champs be inspired from other sources. Novel champs are fine, but when you go way far out trying to figure them out, or make the character complex, it makes them weird.

I hope it eases the tensions a bit, or maybe they can meet the fans here halfway.

junglerboy169 votes

There is another common saying that Riot's creative writers need to keep in mind: "There is nothing new under the sun." Literally every single idea a human being has is based on an amalgamation of things they have sensed in some other way, either through something they saw, or smelled or tasted or heard, and then they think up something interesting based on it (even in the world of Science and math, everything we know now is based off of extrapolation based on a select few given starting points). Of course there are things in the world that have yet to be discovered (new species of plants and animals are still discovered quite regularly), but anything that a creative writer imagines is going to be based off of something they have experienced, so saying "we can't make official stories based on fan fiction ideas" (or even just story suggestions for the new lore) is quite frankly BS. I know as an artist that it is a point of pride to be original and imaginative with your art, but creative writing (and art as a whole) is beautiful based on how well it captures the goal of the artist/writer. When I drew a pair of chickadees eating thistle seeds and made a print out of it a couple weeks ago, it was the most beautiful print I have ever made to date, yet it was based on a rather mundane topic.

Copyright laws do mean that direct plagiarism is illegal, however, taking inspiration from community ideas is not, and Jaredan and his narrative team are trying to construe the legalese in a way that they can keep thinking they are being original. Guess what? Your brand new lore (whenever you actually finish it) will be about as original as if you read fan fiction to write it. You are really not getting it if you think otherwise. You know what else narrative team? Nobody in your player base will give a rip about the new lore, because they know you could have involved them and let them be part of something great, when you instead go all "it disgusts us when we write something and find out somebody else wrote something like that first" on us.

Get over your egos Narrative team. We don't want some shiny new lore that you think is perfect, we want a lore that we ALL enjoy and ALL can say "I was a part of that amazing creation". Beauty is determined by how well the master piece reflects the goals of the artist, but also the goals and standards of the audience. Let us in on the new lore or else be prepared for even more backlash when we all come out and say "you know what? this is ok, but it could have been SO much better!"

This is my first rant about lore since the retcon, so sorry for the wall of text, I'm not particularly good at concise ranting.

Nybx4life3 votes

This was part of my argument against Jeridan in an earlier post. I felt he was using the title "professional creative writer" as an excuse to not just ignore the Lore fans, but also give a subtle insult against people like Cupcake who have worked on quality fanfiction.

Legal issues are understandable; it's best to avoid it than fight it when it arrives. It indeed sucks, but a lengthy lawsuit that can cost a company millions will pull a lot of resources away from other areas, like their dev teams.

Now, I don't believe this is the case of the WHOLE Narrative team, imo. If that was the case, we'd get no response from anyone at any time. But, since a lot is in the dark to us, we can't exactly pinpoint our rage unfortunately.

UPfreely8 votes

riot plz do a retcon retcon

CupcakeTrap15 votes

{quoted}

riot plz do a retcon retcon

IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

WARNING: STORY FOLLOWS! AVERT YOUR EYES, GOOD RIOTERS!


(In the depths of the Institute's arcane prison, where Xin Zhao faithfully stands guard over his jailed king, Jarvan III…)

“REHT’KON AL TRAZARA! INVOH REHT’KON KADORES REHT’KON!”

An Icathian curse. For the first time, Xin Zhao heard such vile sorcery spoken but felt not the slightest tingle of arcane effect. Dampened? From inside one of the cells? Malzahar? No, a different voice…

The King stumbled back, and Xin Zhao moved to defend him from whatever horrors might come. The guards unsheathed their swords and turned to look down the hall.

“Blade!” barked Therese Buvelle, throwing out her open hand. The guard beside her instantly rendered her his weapon, which she gripped and brought down into a half-crouched stance. A focused, defensive stance, one forged on the battlefield rather than in the practice halls.

Down the corridor, the same voice that had chanted the eerie invocation began to scream incoherently.

Miss Fortune settled back, resting one hand on her hip. “He’s safe in his cell,” she scoffed.

The lunatic voice drifted back into intelligibility. “REHT’KON! REHT’KON!”

Dame Therese eased up from her fighting stance. “So he is.” She looked back to Xin Zhao. “Tis only the mad Summoner, Thomas Gnox. His cell holds fast.”

"There are no Summoners! There IS no LEAGUE! No Summoners! No League! No! No! No! There never were!”

One of the guards sheathed his weapon and shook his head. “What madness is this?”

Dame Therese returned her borrowed weapon to its owner. “They say he stared too long into the sky, when the Void came. A fine Summoner, once. An esteemed brother of the Riotous Fists Clan. To have fallen to such black villainy…the sight chills my blood; yea, twists my guts.”

Summoner Thomas Gnox. Yes. Xin Zhao recalled the panic and commotion, which had reached even into this jail, when his dark plot had been exposed. An Icathian bio-hex, enchanted into the great nexus of Summoner’s Rift. Had the scheme not been thwarted, it was said that it would have latched onto the minds of the next Summoners who came to the Rift, from there spreading through the aether from one Summoner to the next and to the next, incubating for days before erupting all at once with lethal effect.

The mad Summoner’s palms slapped the stone of his cell.

“Never were! There never were!”

His voice broke into sobs.

King Jarvan III exhaled a deep sigh, bringing one shaky palm to his head. “That poor man is insane.”

Just as calm returned, malevolent laughter echoed through the halls. Xin Zhao heard Malzahar speak from inside his own cell.

“Oh, no! Not insane! Not madness! Prophecy! So shall it be. He speaks the future.” He cackled. “Yes! O Runeterra, your time shall come! The League of Legends shall fall!” —Hextech Revolution: Epilogue

A cheap shot, yes. I felt entitled to one after the Great Retcon.

libraryseraph 4 votes

have I ever mentioned how much I love you?

KING OF MASKS6 votes
Proelium3 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=K1VjgHbw,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:20:41.855+0000)

Another brilliant post, Cupcake. Now, let us wait for rito's narrative team to read this and finally come to their senses.

See ya in 2029! :D

Tesla Effect4 votes

Whats the difference for Riot between taking inspirations from something and ripping off something?

Ardond3 votes

honestly, not a whole lot, but to be fair a lot of companies do this. The only real difference between "taking inspiration" and "ripping something off" is one is seen in a better light then the other. the problems only occur when opinions about how close two things are conflict and that is when you get law suits and fan rage.

Nybx4life2 votes

Quality, and degree of the rip.

Say it like this: Take your favorite fictional character (I'll say Harry Potter). Keep in mind his physical qualities. Now, if Riot makes, say, a Ryze skin that looks like him with the Gryffindor clothes, here's how it'll look: -It's inspired if certain qualities of the character are there, but you know it's Ryze. The clothes, glasses, and maybe even the scar is there, but it's Ryze with his scroll, Ryze with his quotes, Ryze in personality.

-It's a rip if it's a very cheap skin in terms of quality, the appearance is undoubtedly Harry Potter, and nothing of Ryze's personality shows.

That's how I judge things. A lot of people "rip" from others in concept, but it becomes theirs once they are able to make it unique to them. If they can't, then it's a pure rip.

Impetual4 votes

CupcakeTrap, you have once again created an amazing post that I totally agree with!

Well said!

Killer of Poros3 votes

Rito CoughPantheon* Cough* please So how much does Zack Snyder get from Riot through royalties.

On a much more serious note I think riot needs to reform their current views on narrative and lore. They have so much potential that they seem to be throwing out the windows because of these current views on communication and story.

Crate of Cobras3 votes

Yeah man, same with Magic the Gathering. The design team has little actual creative integrity. But they know that skins and champions based on pre-existing material will sell, because they're proven concepts that are popular with nerds. Miyazaki Bard and Star Wars Yi are good examples.

Tesla Effect3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crate of Cobras,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=K1VjgHbw,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-24T01:37:03.436+0000)

Yeah man, same with Magic the Gathering. The design team has little actual creative integrity. But they know that skins and champions based on pre-existing material will sell, because they're proven concepts that are popular with nerds. Miyazaki Bard and Star Wars Yi are good examples.

Well they have to somehow make money for their free game.

The Stoic Hero3 votes

I have not seen anyone articulate this so well. Thank you.

kolpy993 votes

It's funny because no matter how much people agree with you, there is not going to be a single riot comment. They're like children, easily offended and ignore the subjects they dont agree with

Proelium2 votes

Don't forget that League took names of RL places to name it's locations.

Noxus, Ionia, etc.

Narasimha2 votes

Wait, where the hell is Noxus in real life? Seriously, I've never heard of a country or city with that name. I always thought it came from the root 'Nox', or 'night' in latin.

Maple Crusader2 votes

So Noxus is "Nox" or "Noxious", perhaps the Roman or German Empire? Zaun is German for "Fence", so it's Germany or Eastern European? Mt. Targon is definitely ancient Sparta. Ionia is a mixture of the ancient Mediterraean and Asia. Not sure what Demacia and Piltover's real life counterparts are.

CupcakeTrap1 votes

{quoted}

So Noxus is "Nox" or "Noxious", perhaps the Roman or German Empire? Zaun is German for "Fence", so it's Germany or Eastern European? Mt. Targon is definitely ancient Sparta. Ionia is a mixture of the ancient Mediterraean and Asia. Not sure what Demacia and Piltover's real life counterparts are.

I think Demacia is pretty clearly Fantasy Europe, or more specifically, a kind of Camelot. And Piltover is Victorian steampunk.

I would also say that Ionia isn't really a mixture…it's just Fantasy Asia.

Maple Crusader2 votes

{quoted}

I think Demacia is pretty clearly Fantasy Europe, or more specifically, a kind of Camelot. And Piltover is Victorian steampunk.

I would also say that Ionia isn't really a mixture…it's just Fantasy Asia.

I imagine it does have a Classical influence in addition to its Asian theme, since Varus was named after a Roman General. Then there is the corruption inhabiting his body, the Pit of Pallas. Pallas was a giant in Greek mythology, slain by Athena, goddess of war. There was also a real Ionia in real life, which were a group of ancient Greek islands. Now that may be a concidence about Ionia's name, but I can't ignore the strong connections that Varus and Pallas have with Mediterranean history and mythology respectively.

DG Ashabel3 votes

Varus's name is actually a Skyrim joke. It translates from Latin into "bow-legged", which is to say someone with unnaturally curved knees. He's an archer who shoots people with arrows and he's named after injured knees. Get it?

That said, his inconsistency with the rest of the Fantasy Asia has nothing to do with Riot trying to add Mediterranean themes to Ionia. The inconsistency is because Varus's lore was outsourced rather than written by the internal lore team. His lore writer and co-creator is Jerry Holkins, better known as Tycho Brache of Penny Arcade.

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

I was under the impression that they only did the Judgement and the comic to go along with it, rather than being the SOLE creators of Varus's entire lore.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

{quoted}

I imagine it does have a Classical influence in addition to its Asian theme, since Varus was named after a Roman General. Then there is the corruption inhabiting his body, the Pit of Pallas. Pallas was a giant in Greek mythology, slain by Athena, goddess of war. There was also a real Ionia in real life, which were a group of ancient Greek islands. Now that may be a concidence about Ionia's name, but I can't ignore the strong connections that Varus and Pallas have with Mediterranean history and mythology respectively.

I think Varus does import some of that classical vibe, that's true. And I can't disagree entirely with someone who goes into a LoL forum thread and throws down freaking Quinctilius Varus. (LEGIONES MIHI REDE!) That said, I believe DG Ashabel has the better of the argument: that was a one-off, quite possibly tossed in by Tycho, or just Riot's rather scattershot approach to lore. (For example, I was really getting into Noxus as Rome with a bit of Klingon or whatever thrown in…but it's really just so jumbled that it's hard to tell what's going on.)

I can't say I'm a fan of "the Pit of Pallas". I don't remember Pallas being a giant; I remember Pallas being Athena's friend, whom she accidentally killed, and whose name she took as an act of contrition. But really, my issue with it is just that it's not even syllable-mashed, and it's not so obscure that it works to just slap in there unaltered. It'd be like Pantheon wielding "The Spear of Hercules", or being named, I don't know, Panth—…yeah, okay, nevermind.

But again: this is meant quite affectionately. Really, it's become quite rare for a story-verse to not be totally obsessed with its literary pedigree. League gains so much charm precisely because a lot of it seems like it was written on napkins while people waited at the loadscreen. Actually, that's part of why I found writing League fanfic so rewarding: I'd spent a lot of time stressing about writing "a masterpiece", and most of that time was spent either pacing back and forth berating myself for not writing more, or else writing a line and then immediately erasing it because it was "stupid". League was so freeing that way: I wasn't intimidated by the setting, and indeed found it kind of ridiculous, so I felt absolutely zero pressure. I just wrote because it was fun. League has that sort of levity to it.

Anidan2 votes

I learned something today. As a soon-to-be history major, this topic pleases me.

Tesla Effect1 votes

{quoted}

I think Demacia is pretty clearly Fantasy Europe, or more specifically, a kind of Camelot. And Piltover is Victorian steampunk.

I would also say that Ionia isn't really a mixture…it's just Fantasy Asia.

In terms of architecture and punk influences: Noxus is has Medieval French (Gothic) and German influences. (Fantasypunk) Demacia has Ancient Roman and Byzantium influences (Some Victorien). (Fantasypunk) Shurima has Ancient Egyptian and Arabic influences. (Mythpunk) Mount Targon has Ancient Greek and Roman influences. (Mythpunk) Zaun has English Industrial revolution influences. (Steampunk, Cyberpunk, Biopunk also some Teslapunk) Piltover has English industrial revolution influences (Artdeco). (Steampunk, Decopunk, also some Cyberpunk) Bandle City has Central European influences. (Fantasypunk) Bilgewater has the Americas Colonial influences. (Fantasypunk) Shadow Isles has Medieval French (Gothic) influences. (Fantasypunk and Plaguepunk) Freljord has Nordic Influences. (Fantasypunk) Ionia has Medieval Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Tibetan, Indian influences (Mythpunk and Fantasypunk)

Nameless Hero1 votes

You forgot Vi! Punk punk

DG Ashabel2 votes

Gaming appropriated elves, dwarves, orcs, and pretty much everything else to create D&D and various tabletop-esque computer games. Blizzard made Warcraft. It decided to use "central casting", and most of its universe is just a copy-and-paste from this Tolkien-inspired fantasy trope-stock.

Just a small correction to this step. It should actually be three steps.

As you said, first happened Tolkien and then D&D. Then this cool company called Games Workshop made Warhammer, which was basically D&D but with collectible figurines instead of rulebooks because those sold better to collectors. Blizzard were huge fans of Warhammer and decided they want to make a game based on it, and entered negotiations with GW in order to produce a real-time strategy. However, GW becoming increasingly harder to work with, combined with Blizzard's foul experiences with big publishers (they had some awful dealings with DC Comics at the time) made them lose interest in pursuing that partnership. They hastily remade Warhammer just enough to avoid a lawsuit, then pushed it out as WarCraft. The rest is history.

So once you consider that League of Legends is a game inhabited largely by rip-offs of famous characters and inspired by DOTA, which is a mod of Warcraft III, which is in turn an acknowledged rip-off of Warhammer (and Dune 2 but that's another story), which is a marketability-driven rip-off of D&D, which in turn is an attempt to take popular fantasy tropes and unify them into a tabletop game, you do begin to wonder which leg the narrative team's argument is supposed to stand on.

I mean, guys, you are making a clone of a mod of a rip-off of a rip-off of a tabletop intentionally riddled with cliches and rip-offs. Your clone is also populated by a variety of rip-offs from other sources. I don't think anyone will judge you for ripping things off so long as it's not as awkwardly soulless as Xerath's new bio is.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

That's interesting. I hadn't realized that Warcraft was a ripoff of Warhammer specifically. It does make perfect sense when I think about it.

You know, it's especially interesting because I've always sensed just a little spiritual kinship between League and 40K. I mean this in a very narrow sense: their reliance on derp. Of course, the differences are vastly more numerous and significant: 40K is the trope-namer of the "grimdark" setting, whereas LoL is delightfully bright and energetic, even playful; 40K is over-the-top testosterone-poisoned, while League has a broader range; and so on.

But the one thing they do have in common is that I think they're both remarkable universes in part because they gain a lot of their charm by their sheer derpiness. 40K is remarkable in that it takes its derpy excess to such ludicrous heights that it gets into that rarefied atmosphere of "is this even ironic anymore? I DON'T KNOW!" League, meanwhile, is one of the most refreshingly unpretentious settings out there. It has a rather childlike innocence to it, like it's been created by a bunch of kids throwing their favorite toys into the sandbox and arguing about whether Luke Skywalker could beat up RoboCop. But that's beautiful. I used to play those kinds of games as a kid. In a world in which fantasy and sci-fi seem to always be trying too hard to be DARKUR AND EDGIUR, League isn't worried about impressing you with its amazing literary heft or its grim realism. It's a comic book fantasy pastiche, and it's quite wonderful. Indeed, I'm sometimes concerned that League is drifting away from that, toward more stock pulp "I'm dark so you have to take me seriously" fantasy literature. It might gain some polish, but only at the cost of its soul.

Baron Von Bangin3 votes

It's funny. I start seeing similarities between 40k and League the longer League lives for. Warhammer 40k used to be very self aware with how over the top and hair metal the setting was. It pretended to take itself seriously, either between naming a hulking cyborg ork warlord after Margret Thatcher or having a group of superhuman, power armor wearing space monks named the "Rainbow Warriors", the setting gave its audience a ton of winks and nods. Now, Warhammer actually seems to believe that it is a serious setting and demands to be taken seriously. Almost all lore (of fluff) relating to human or other alien races is void of any humor except for maybe the "space orks" just by virtue of that race being impossible to take seriously.

League, to me, seems to be going down the same path. Where once it used to borrow blatantly from other sources that many have already mentioned in the thread so far ("MUNDO GOING TO NEED YOU TO COME IN AN SATURDAY") for hyucks and giggles, it now wants to be taken seriously. There is no room for the previous fun we used to have. The lore team seems to feel that they have to separate the "new" League-verse from t e previous, slightly derpy, old lore because these new guys want their work to seem professional and lay the foundation for a "serious" setting that a larger group of rockheads can immediate recognize and feel safe in once Riot Game decides to expand their IP into an MMO or whatever they're planning next.

CupcakeTrap4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=K1VjgHbw,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:33:15.077+0000)

It's funny. I start seeing similarities between 40k and League the longer League lives for. Warhammer 40k used to be very self aware with how over the top and hair metal the setting was. It pretended to take itself seriously, either between naming a hulking cyborg ork warlord after Margret Thatcher or having a group of superhuman, power armor wearing space monks named the "Rainbow Warriors", the setting gave its audience a ton of winks and nods. Now, Warhammer actually seems to believe that it is a serious setting and demands to be taken seriously. Almost all lore (of fluff) relating to human or other alien races is void of any humor except for maybe the "space orks" just by virtue of that race being impossible to take seriously.

League, to me, seems to be going down the same path. Where once it used to borrow blatantly from other sources that many have already mentioned in the thread so far ("MUNDO GOING TO NEED YOU TO COME IN AN SATURDAY") for hyucks and giggles, it now wants to be taken seriously. There is no room for the previous fun we used to have. The lore team seems to feel that they have to separate the "new" League-verse from t e previous, slightly derpy, old lore because these new guys want their work to seem professional and lay the foundation for a "serious" setting that a larger group of rockheads can immediate recognize and feel safe in once Riot Game decides to expand their IP into an MMO or whatever they're planning next.

I so very strongly agree with this entire post.

The universe seems to be getting darker and more isolated by the day. It started with the Elise login bit about "The Shadow Isles—some say they don't exist!", which is of course utterly bizarre from a traditional lore perspective. ("Um, who says that, Elise? Sure, they're spooky, but we've got a freaking Field of Justice on the Twisted Treeline. Pretty sure we all know that the Shadow Isles exist." It's like someone from the State Department getting up in front of a press conference and eerily intoning, "North Korea: some say it doesn't exist." It's an attempt to be ominous, but it just sounds silly.) Ever since, they've been implicitly retconning the highly interconnected original Valoran with a starkly fragmented world that, while certainly not "grimdark", is very, very dark, in terms of both ignorance and general misery.

Let's not get too alarmist, though. League still has lots of whimsy, and is far ahead of the curve relative to games generally. Bard is an eminently whimsical character, and I think one of the Rioters in that thread answered a question about what it's like to hug Bard with a reference to a pile of puppies. …I mean, sure, the last spoken line of dialogue in his intro video was "WE'LL DIE WITHOUT IT", but…puppies…?

The Soulforged2 votes

Yeah. Lore has become this pool of champions with ideas for their backstory that we can't read yet, with no interactions between those not closely related. Lore is full of characters with no stories between them.

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

[deleted]

Xulsigae12 votes

I believe the character creators said they had taken inspiration from Studio Ghibli among other sources.

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

Inspired is not the same as ripping off. Learn reading comprehension.

Dustogrei9 votes

Reading comprehension includes understanding the main idea and not getting lost in trivialities, as you have done so both with CupCake's post and Xulsigae's. You're quite the hypocrite to tell others to learn reading comprehension when you're clearly lacking it yourself.

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

[deleted]

Xhader6 votes

Can't tell if trolling, or if stupid..

patmax171 votes

If property claims are the problem, what if Riot made a place (a website? a subforum?) where people can submit LoL-related content (be it concepts, fan arts, fan fictions, skin ideas, whatever) with the specific purpose of being used by riot? I imagine something like deviantart, where, when you upload a new piece of content, you accept an agreement (written by riot) that sets the right legal ground to avoid problems. Kinda like "by posting this here I accept that my idea can be used by Riot to be integrated in League of Legends" (with all needed nuances). On deviantart, when you upload a new deviation, you can chose the licence you are publishing it under....

CupcakeTrap5 votes

Honestly, I don't think it's necessary. There is no legal problem, for several reasons. IP law might protect a story (a work), but it does not protect an idea (e.g. "how about adding this element into Swain's backstory?" or "what if Noxians had a coming-of-age ceremony like this?"). Further, if you run around going "Riot, please change the lore in such-and-such a way", and then they do so, you (obviously) cannot claim to have somehow been wronged by them doing exactly what you asked them to do.

Tesla Effect2 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I don't think it's necessary. There is no legal problem, for several reasons. IP law might protect a story (a work), but it does not protect an idea (e.g. "how about adding this element into Swain's backstory?" or "what if Noxians had a coming-of-age ceremony like this?"). Further, if you run around going "Riot, please change the lore in such-and-such a way", and then they do so, you (obviously) cannot claim to have somehow been wronged by them doing exactly what you asked them to do.

Exactly! Fans what Riot Senpai to notice their ideas. Best example: Korrasami in Legend of Korra.

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