My problems with Targon

Talos of Altmora··37 votes·8,243 views
http://i.imgur.com/FHh3beZ.jpg

Targon has been through quite a bit of change recently. These changes have been controversial to say the least. It seems that there is a pretty even split of opinion between those who like the new targon, those who hate the new Targon (myself included.) While I can see potential in the new stories, I feel that it wasn't worth deleting the old stories. So, my question to the other camp, and to the lore team, is why. Why did the lore change so drastically? Why do you like the Aspects concept? Why did these changes even happen?

To start off, Pantheon. He was one of my first champions, a badass Rakkorian warrior. He was the one who got me interested in Targon in the first place. Now, his main problem in the lore was that he wasn't connected to the Leona/Diana and the Solari debate. The only connection he had was that he was Leona's childhood friend. That was a problem, but in the new lore event he has even LESS of a connection to the conflict. He is now an Aspect of War (which is a pretty badass title, admittedly) who is apparently a space-god-parasite who takes over a corpse whenever a badass goes to the top of targon. NO connection to Leona or Diana, He had one encounter with Leona (or rather, Atreus had an encounter with her), but they don't interact more than that. Right now, Sol is his new playmate/slave for the time being.

Leona's changes were a bit drastic. I have no problem with her killing, because she used to do it to protect the innocent. She was as compassionate as Braum and Soraka, willing to put her life on the line for her allies. I loved playing her, I loved her as a character, I loved the line "I will protect you."… So when I read this line, I got angry. "If you would shine like a sun, first you must burn like one." And "Leona brings enlightenment to some, death to others." In other words, she seems to have become an inquisitor of sorts, willing to kill the heretic (and burn the mutant, possible purge the unclean too.) While the old lore Implied she was indoctrinated to some extent, she always had her compassion. Now, I have a funny feeling she won't protect me... Now, I am TERRIFIED of her. Hell, I'm gonna call Her Linda, because she is so detached from the other Leona that she has to be a new character.

So, Linda Still has a connection to Diana... but not exactly a deep one. To quote IronStylus when he spoke about the old lore. "We want them to be intertwined, and without delving too far into assumptions and implications, without getting too detailed about their past relationship, what is more tragic than to have to kill someone that you love?" Remember this. Because for a few paragraphs in the lore it's more like "What's more tragic than having to kill someone you barely know who murdered your bosses?" Then, in a rather confusing turn connected with the Aspect concept, she gain PHENOMENAL COSMIC KNOWLEDGE! And is still seeking Diana out, but to tell her secrets instead of executing her. So, now Linda is the psycho with a crush to Diana. Something is backwards here.

Now we come to Diana. Her backstory is still kind of the same. However there is a distinction that made her murder of the elders make more since. You know the emblem on her forehead and the makeup on her eyes? Yeah, that wasn't make up, those were scars. The elders burned the emblem into her forehead, and her tears boiled and formed the scars on her face. She cried out for help, and like Leona's lore, the moon answered. Violently. In the new lore, she was already the aspect of the moon when she met the Solari elders, and killed them when her plan of peaceful coexistence went south. (Although she apparently was always a troublemaker. So maybe there was more to it than that. ) Still, I see it as pointless. She didn't kill Linda (who runs the Spanish Inquisition the Ra-Horak, and thus would lead a manhunt against her) and nothing suggested that she couldn't do it without killing the elders. She also has ancient knowledge but is now focusing on making sure the world isn't going to be eaten by the void (Kassadin? Who's that?).

Aurelion Sol... You know, riot wants a sort of grey and grey morality kind of think with this. Sure, he's enslaved, but if he isn't the Void will go OMNONNOM on Targon, and possibly Runeterra (Again, Kassadin ). However, I am firmly on his side, mostly because he will destroy Targon. I probably shouldn't be thinking that they deserve to be destroyed in an instant of glorious starlight or being eat by H.P. Lovecraft rejects, but I don't care what happens to these people. These aren't the characters I loved. I care very little for Linda and the other residents of Targon now.

UPDATE: I have now read Taric's new lore, and I am unimpressed. First, riot needs to give us a map because Demacia and Noxus Now share a contient with Targon, and Apparently the mountain is where Demacia sends it's problems. Second, Taric always loved his gemstones, but he apparently enjoyed the simpler joys in life like flowers and nature. While I sympathies with that, he loved it so much that he would abandon battles to enjoy it, meaning that their lives are on his hands. Garen, who was now one of his former friends, became embittered towards him (and for good reason!) and because Garen was the one who gave him a good reputation and without him it rightfully went down the trash. He was assigned to have control over a small group in a relativity quiet place. Of course when he goofs off again, somehow everyone there was slaughtered to the last man.

So in order to atone he started to climb the mountain. Where one of the Super-Duper Aspects shows up and gives him his power, apparently he was being groomed for this. (Which mean that the Aspects likely arranged for those men to die, or that the Aspects are stupid and would want a man who has proven himself incompetent multiple times in his position.) He becomes a protector , and now fights the Void. (Wow, at this point I think they Really did forget about Kassadin ) I won't compare him to the old lore because I consider reworked champions to be different characters. I will, however, go into what I liked about it. Taric at the very least wants to make up for his mistakes, and he wants to atone. It's almost as if Linda's compassion was moved into him. Still, given that he has proven himself to be incompetent and making Demacia look bad and making Noxius Always Chaotic Evil...Again (Demacia had conscription and taught it's moral superiority over everyone else in the old lore too, but I still feel that they are vilified. P.S. why do I have the feeling Lux's background is about to be either happy sunshiny mage or emo magic girl? )

Why is the Void connected to Targon now? The Void has connections to runeterra, there is no doubt about that, but there is a certain pattern to how they get there, Icanthia. While there are other void portals, Icanthia is the source of most void creatures. Now, it seems that something about Targon brings them there. Is Tagron made out of Void Bacon? Does Malzahar go there with his cult? Does Kassadin and the Preservers of Valoran know about it? If so, don't you think they would try to stop it? The old conflict of Targon was mainly religious, and while I wouldn't mind it was much if there was a void cult there, the void cult and Kassadin's Groupies (who's membership is implied to be made up of a lot of powerful individuals) seem to be far away from this conflict. It makes Kassadin look like he doesn't notice the massive Void Invasion happening at Targon. Or maybe he wants it gone as much as I do.

Okay, rant over. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope the lore event gives the fans of this something to enjoy. Please answer my questions and if you want to discuss this, please leave it in the comments. Thank you for thanking the time to read this.

231 Comments

GreenLore14 votes

My thoughts as for why they did these changes(regardless if they are good or bad): Pantheon Pantheon -his friendship with leona always seemed odd,since leona pretty much stood for the exact opposite of pantheons ideals,it always looked a bit like they were friends simply because they were the "good-guy-targonians" -I think the reason why he was turned into the aspect of war is to make him more of his own thing.You say he is now even more deconnected from the solari-conflict,but that is not necessarily a bad thing as he has now his own story of importance. (I also doubt that Atreus is truly dead,Jaredan said that rules exist to be broken and it would seem odd to establish atreus as a character only to throw him away)

Leona Leona -I think differentiation is one of the reasons why leona became more "agressive".I mean you yourself already said it that we have already the typical protector characters with Braum and Soraka (similarly they changed poppys backstory because we had already other "they-murdered-my-parents-champions) -Ironstylus never specified who had feelings for who.Leona might barely know Diana,but Diana probably knew about leona and might have looked up to her.

Diana Diana -That whole thing about the emblems being burned onto her head was ironstyluses personal headcanon,it was never canon and honestly doesn't make much sense to me(like you want someone to stop worship the moon?Yeah burning the symbol of it on her will surely do it....) -Her attack against the elders was likely caused by the aspect inside her(her color text says that the moment she uses her moon powers she gets filled with hatred),even in the old lore it wasn't out of question that the moon influenced her actions.

The void -Well we still don't know where Mt.Targon,Icathia and Shurima are located,they might be pretty close to each other. -Kassadin and Malzahar both didn't get any new lore in the last years,so its really difficult to tell what they are doing,where they are fighting,etc.I mean appearantly shurima suffers from a void invasion as well(all the void monster-champs have shuriman names) -The void exists on another plane of existence,so it is not surprising that there doesn't exist only one place that has trouble with it.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

Well, Pantheon was always a weird guy in the lore. Besides, we have never seen him outside of a fight, so how much is bluster and how much is actually him speaking. Still, the lore specified it was childhood, so maybe something changed. I would like to see it, but for now, we're going off what we have. While the Aspect made him his own thing, I fail to see why it's a good thing, as that means out of all the Targoina's we currently know about, he is still on his only island with only a star dragon to keep him company. And while Aterus may not be dead, he isn't in much of a state to do anything being, you know, dead. Unless his soul is screaming in agony in side of him, he's pretty much a non-entity.

I also fail to see how replacing Leona with Linda is a good thing. What is wrong with compassion? In the old lore it implied a conflict of interest between her and the Solari; she loves Diana (maybe Romanic, maybe platonic) but now has to kill her. That has a good story for it, and I don't see why it had to change. Diana may have heard of Leona, but nothing in the new lore suggest this. Either way, the only connection they have is the sun and moon conflict, which changed into Linda wanting to share knowledge with her.

They branded Diana with the moon symbol purely to spite her. She didn't worship the moon, she just had a theory that the moon was also important in their cosmology, and they didn't want their control rested from them (at least that's how I interpret it.) Moreover, in the new lore, it states that she is still herself, so she is not a meat puppet (that's Aterus's Job now). Besides, IronStylus designed her, so if he is as good a source as any when it comes to Diana and Leona.

Finally, the void cult wants to spread the void to our world, but it's apparently here now, so Malzy is being redundant. We may not know where these locations are (because we need a map to Runeterra, and I have a feeling we won't be getting that for awhile) however, Icanthia seems to be the largest portal to this world. We know that Icanthia was an ancient Shurimian city, so we know it is inside of the Desert. They pop out of Icanthia, all our current void champs are said to come from their. (And given that the void seems to have been given a lore nerf, They are too weak to fight the aspects, so the voidborn we know can't be from Targon.) So again, why don't the two champions who have knowledge of the void do something?

GreenLore2 votes

Pantheon You say he " is still on his only island with only a star dragon to keep him company",but if he has a star dragon to keep him company,then how is it his "only island"? A region can have more than one big conflict and riot chose to create a new one for the other targonians instead of shoving them all into that of diana&leona. Pantheon is now connected to Aurelion Sol,maybe even Taric and they will likely release more aspect champs that connect to him in the future.

Leona The whole "love"-thing never really was a part of the old lore.Ironstylus did say there were some plans to connect the 2 a bit deeper,but that were only plans. Though it is possible that they will create a relationship between the 2 later on,as neither of the 2 seem to want a conflict,so there is room for them to built up a relationship. And there is nothing wrong with compassion(I mean in her new lore she also spares the golden boy even if it puts herself at risk,so its not like she is a heartless killer machine),its just that riot likely wanted to make leona a more grey character to set her apart from other protectors.(though I myself think they went a bit too far with that)

Diana However Ironstylus himself said that the scars-thing was his headcanon,not really canon. And while diana isn't a meat puppet,she does have an aspect inside of her(just like Leona) and her color text gives us this line:

The essence within Diana surged. It filled her thoughts with undying hatred from a distant epoch.

So while her aspect doesn't control her like Pantheons,it isn't out of question that it could influence her.

The Void Kassadin and Malzahar are simply not a part of this lore update. They might have already visited Mt.Targon,or they might not even be aware of the situation on Targon.Its not like the 2 have a voidipedia to look up all the places where the void is active. Even if they are aware of the situation on Mt.Targon they might choose to focus on other places instead,I mean there are also void problems in shurima and maybe even bilgewater(baron is from the serpentine river,that was confirmed to be close to bilgewater now and he is also connected to the void),or they might not be able to influence the situation that much,I mean what is kassadin supposed to do?Kill all the void monsters there once and for all?The rakkor try this now for centuries and didn't manage to do that,so I doubt that kassadin can do it. We will likely get more information about the 2 once riot updates the void lores.

Talos of Altmora4 votes
  1. Their conflict is still distant, which is really friggin weird when Sol is the sun's creator. they SHOULD have a connection. Moreover, the void is now taking the place of the main conflict, because that's what the void is now.

  2. The golden boy only existed to show that she had compassion, and once he was gone he was forgotten(and he probably is going to be a champ, just a guess, of course, because otherwise he was just a plot device.) Besides I have a funny feeling that If Linda had a second chance, she would kill him without hesitation. A grey character is fine, but doing it to someone who was once as compassionate as Braum leaves me with a really bad taste in my mouth.

  3. Ironstylus drew Diana and her portrait, if he said they were scars, they I will believe him because he designed her. And while the aspect COULD manipulate her, in her old lore she had a really good reason to be filled with hate.

  4. Kassadin sees himself as standing against the void with his Preservers, And Malzahar sees himself as it's prophet who will bring them there. So unless Kassadin really has no idea about how the void works, or Malzy is so insane he doesn't see the Massive void invasion in targon in spite of his visions, they are ignoring the very thing they focus on.

GreenLore3 votes

1)Well there is the connection that Leona and Diana now have aspects in them and the ancient knowledge that they got is likely connected to the targonians as well.

2)Well the golden boy did later reappear when Leona suddenly found herself at the top of the mountain,but I agree he might become a champion on his own one day. Overall I can understand that you dislike this change,as I myself am not that happy with it either(I think making Leona a bit more grey is ok,but she really seemed a bit too ready to execute diana),though I think she is supposed to basically go back to her compassionate self at the end of her lore(as it says she was changed and Pantheons lore says she goes for a much more passive/defensive policy),but her lore makes a poor job at portraying this change(if its really like that).

3)But Ironstylus himself said from the beginning that this wasn't necessarily canon

So, the super-secret head-canon I have, which I have no idea if it'll be actually integrated, but it's something that Team Diana talked about way back in the day.. is that her mark is a physical brand

source: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3763069&page=4 So if he said that it wasn't necessarily canon,then I belive that. And like I said it was unclear if dianas moonpowers turned her into a lunatic(haha get it?....ok i stop with the jokes.....) or if it left her personality unchanged.

4)Like I said,the 2 simply are currently out of foucs. And you also have to keep in mind that we don't even know the timeline. The void changing malzahar&Kassadin might have happened after the targonian champions got infused with aspects. Even if it happened before or around the same time it could take them months to even reach Mt.Targon(and thats ignoring the fact that the 2 probably had other priorities before that,like gathering allies,gathering knowledge about the void,kassadin getting his helmet,etc.)

Talos of Altmora2 votes
  1. That great, but I don't think its as deep as what they had.

  2. I don't think she went back to her "compassionate side" but i got "MUST.FIND.DIANA." But at least we agree that the lore does a very poor job of showing it.

  3. The lore states that she is still herself, so no, she isn't a meat puppet. As for IronStylus, well, i was wrong about it being canon, but considering he is the designer, I'm more than willing to go along (mostly because if she just painted it on or the moon just put it on her, it's kinda of silly. In my opinion anyways.

  4. The fact that they are out of focus just makes the problem even more ridiculous,. Malzy's vision should be directing him to targon, because I imagine that the "aspects" are getting in the way of his plans. Kass would really like the void to get off of Valoran, and would probably follow Malz there. Since they are not connect to this new void, either it's their both acting stupid, or this takes place before they were even born. Or far later. i admit your probably right and it's the former, but this still makes me scratch my head.

Star Guardían1 votes
  1. Firstly, Ironstylus is the concept artist for Diana not the lead narrative writer. Secondly, that piece he drew in which he shared hisHEADcanon was FANart. (Yes he works for Riot, but that pic was drawn on his own free time and not for Riot.) Lastly the new lore stated that the mark on her forehead (a rune I think it was referred to) and dark lines around her eyes were magically placed there by the moon's powers.
Talos of Altmora2 votes

Well, as he designed the character, if he says they are scars, then they are scars. I have read the new lore, and the fact that the moon apparently has a dress code from it's chosen is kinda stupid if you think about it; Does the moon want them to stick out like a sore thumb? Does it do it for a practical reason, or for fun? Seriously, the other explanation are kinda silly.

Star Guardían3 votes

It doesn't matter what Ironstylus says even if his the lead concept artist on Diana. He does not own that intellectual property and anything he says or draws about Diana outside of official Riot work is FANart/FANfiction/HEADcanon. His headcanon is no more canon than yours or mine. Now if you want to accept that headcanon as YOUR personal headcanon, that's completely fine. But stipulating that Ironstylus' headcanon was pre-retcon official canon is just 100% false. The only thing canon in the old lore about Diana's forehead mark is that it existed. Aside from that we didn't know how she got it.

Vistha Kai8 votes

it was never canon and honestly doesn't make much sense to me(like you want someone to stop worship the moon?Yeah burning the symbol of it on her will surely do it....)

Or is it? The current leading "religion" group on Targon are Solari. Branding her with a moon symbol effectively means a permanent exile. Nobody would talk with her and most if no all Solari warriors would attack her on sight.

GreenLore1 votes

Ironstylus himself said that when he drew that picture,that story wasn't canon(and with the new lores we know that this wasn't the case).

And like you say,the symbol would pretty much make her an exile,but from what we've read she never was exiled,the solari elders wanted her to stop doing research about the moon.

Vistha Kai5 votes

Nothing in this game is "canon" at this point.

Not even the lore they release now.

GreenLore4 votes

Uhm no,regardless if you like it or not,the new lore is canon.

Vistha Kai5 votes

Regardless if you like it or not, whatever you believe the "canon" is today, may not be true tomorrow.

VulcanIsHere2 votes

Then it's not canon tomorrow. That doesn't mean it's not canon today.

That's like saying the world's ending tomorrow, so it's ending today :/

Vistha Kai5 votes

That's a great analogy supporting my claim.

If the world was to end tomorrow most people would not give a flying fuck what happens today. They wouldn't go to work, school, etc. Riots, thievery, murders and the like. Basically the end of the world happens "today" instead of "tomorrow".

And you see the chance that the world ends tomorrow is much lower than the canon in the "League" changing tomorrow.

GreenLore4 votes

Not really. They specifically made the retcon because they wrote themselves into a corner with the old lore,since they pretty much made the stuff up on the spot(things like shacos or eves backgrounds were really nothing more than "mystery")

Now they put a lot more thought into the lore,so that they don't write themselves into a corner again. Not that they could write themselves into a corner now since the lore isn't bound to the IoW anymore and they have a lot more freedom with it.

Vistha Kai6 votes

So much fallacy and gullibility in one post.

Now, now. Don't get me wrong. I could possibly see reasons why a change was need, but the way the handled it was nowhere near "they put a lot more thought into the lore". Or rather, if we assume they weren't thinking at all when writing the old one, then any amount of time spent on the new one is "a lot more".

You see, limits are good. Each world setting should have rules which cannot be broken. Once you have those in place the actual writing begins.

Riot going out with "IoW is limiting us, therefore it never existed" is a proof of their inability as writers.

Not only they could make IoW work, but - should anything else fail - let it die "naturally", instead of erasing it's existance, then removing any ties between the lore and the game.

Well, in the end, if you actually cared what people had to say about the lore, you wouldn't write that oblivious comment in the first place, so I most likely wasted my time here.

GreenLore3 votes

If you disagree with riots decision about the retcon,then that is fine,it is your opinion and I have no problem with that,I myself think the retcon was handled badly.

However you just saw me disagreeing with your senseless bashing of the retcon and started to write all your thoughts about why you dislike the retcon,despite the fact that,that wasn't my point.

What I said is that riot has no reason for another retcon. But insead of telling me why they would even need a second retcon,you start to rant about how you disagree with their decision of the retcon and make snarky comments.

And yes,you are right that limits are needed to make a good story,but they have to be reasonable and fitting for the type of story the author wants to tell,otherwise the limit starts to cripple the story.

Riot decided the IoW was an unreasonable limit for the storys they wanted to tell and regardless if you agree or disagree with their decision you should stay rational,but insteady you act like riot rolls a 100-sided dice everyday to decide if they retcon the lore again or not.

Also its funny that you accuse me of not caring about what others write,when you yourself are in complete disregard of everyone who is ok with the retcon or disagrees with you.

Headbiter7 votes

And yes,you are right that limits are needed to make a good story,but they have to be reasonable and fitting for the type of story the author wants to tell,otherwise the limit starts to cripple the story.

I'd like to see one example for that in any form of fiction. So far, I've seen only an increasingly liberal approach to story limitations fucking up established settings, from the infamous ruination of the Ultima-franchise, over the major buttfuckery of Star Wars with the Midichlorian-nonsense to whatever unholy mess TES Online did to Tamriel.

And the great thing with LoL? We don't even have to delve into "What if"-territory when wondering whether the old setting could be used for an ongoing setting - we have that in the form of a fan-run project called factions, which currently is setting up it's EIGHTH arc.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right, and creative limitations can in fact cripple a story: The issue is they have established NONE. They removed the IoW two years ago (the time it takes the earth to circumvent the sun...twice! Just to visualize what that means) and have delivered on NOTHING concerning the base setting.

We have no map, we have no idea about political relations, a huge part of the champions still run around with lore that is impossible under the new setup and since they repeatedly radically rewrite characters and entire places to their very core (The Targonians basically being aliens) despite their claim to adhere to the core of the original stories, even those characters WITH a compatible lore are basically up in the air.

And we've seen what Riot does with their "creative freedom": Nothing. We know little to nothing how Kalista operates (Can a 12-year old hire her to assassinate a class-mate who kicked his puppy?), Rek'sai is just some beast, Gnar's lore text told us more about effing RENGAR than Gnar, Ekko has no personality, Bard...just does...stuff...the list goes on and on.

And even pre-retcon champions aren't safe, with Tristana's character and backstory being basically obliterated and Twisted Fate having never betrayed his comrade.

In summary: After two years time and countless apology-pieces, the professional writing-STAFF of Riot has nothing to show for themselves other than some flashy concepts that wow you on their first impression but ultimately have little to no substance and not even a base-line. Hell, they even said that summoners, despite earlier statements that they were gone together with the IoW, still exist in this new Runeterra...but they give no explanation what they are or do, so once again, we're stuck with hollow concepts and the promise of some ultimate "end-goal" that, let's be honest here, can NEVER live up to the build-up Riot is promising.

And I am not exaggerating when I say that I alone, armed with nothing but MS Word could've rewritten the basic background of EVERY champion in the game so far, set up a game world, the rules of magic and political relationships and the major conflicts in this world in the same time that Riot's entire writing TEAM - with all the resources they have - gave us some short stories of STRONGLY varying quality that went nowhere and mean basically nothing because we don't know what any of the actions taken in those stories will cause or where they even fucking are in relationship to anyone else.

Now with this massive, two-year old construction site in front of you...can you seriously blame people for thinking that Riot at best is inept and at worst just doesn't give a crap? And remember, no one asked them for this or even demands that they come out with some world-sweeping epic. Hell, after reading the A. Sol-page I'd pay them to keep it simple, thank you very much. It is THEIR project. THEY chose to go down that road and THEY decide they have to keep up their facade of a great plan, which quite frankly, no one is impressed by.

If they would just give us a map and a rough "These are the rules of the world we build here", that would be more than enough. Or hell, just tell us if the fucking RIFT actually exists.

Ghostagram2 votes

I feel like I partly agree. After all, this is supposed to be the official lore of the game. So like with, you know, every other game out there, I would expect the lore to be reflected by the game in some way. Less detailed or not, better or worse, the old lore had clear ties with the gameplay. The whole summoner thing, various champ VOs (luckily still applies to new champs, sorta), things like that.

Now the lore is completely divorced from the game, sometimes it feels like it has about as much impact as any random fan fiction. I'm having trouble taking it at face value, especially since we know it could be retconned as easily as all the old stuff was. Oh well.

On the flip side, it's not like lore ever had much sway over LoL, but at least the setting make sense.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Lore had a lot of sway for me.

At one point I knew every single champion's lore and it made up for 50%+ of what I think about a champion.

Now? I don't think I've read one new champion's lore since halfway through 2015. It also effectively lead me to not getting any of those champions (Ekko was the last one).

Ghostagram2 votes

By sway I meant sway over the game itself, things like the Noxus vs Ionia matches that had the gameplay have an actual effect on lore and vice versa. With the current setup there's just... no point, since the gameplay is non-canon. The story has no bearing on the game, hence why I regard it more as "fanfiction plus" than anything.

As far as lore being a big thing for people, oh yes, I agree. Part of the reason I got drawn to LoL was the lore of some champs that I happened to read somewhere out on the internet. A little sad that I joined the party kinda late and have only been disappointed by the lore ever since (or maybe that's good since I'm not as invested, heh).

Talos of Altmora2 votes

I got here after the great retcon, and fell in love with the old targon. I was invested and generally interested in it. Now, because of this whole "aspects" mess, I regret ever even buying the champions. Really, riot would do well to understand the 8 deadly words, because I don't care what happens to these people. I do wonder if the Lore team evens hears about the negative feedback they get, because I haven't seen it.

Vistha Kai3 votes

By the time I got into LoL myself the lore was already dead, although I didn't realize it at the time.

But at least it was. And it made sense.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

You can read a champion's lore halfway? Most champion's now have a lore spanning three sentences

Vistha Kai2 votes

"Halfway through 2015."

InHaruhiWeTrust3 votes

We need to stop agreeing on everything..... but for now take my upvote XD

MazerRackhem9 votes

RIOT doesn't care about lore. As a player who has been here since before Season 1 and who LOVES game lore in general all I can do is shake my head in sadness at the absolute utter train wreck that is League of Legends lore.

This is literally 100% RIOTs approach to lore:

"Like the lore? Awesome! Enjoy it for the next 2 months because then it's all going away."

"Don't like the lore? No problem! We're going to completely delete everything we've ever written about every champion you play and rewrite them from scratch next week with zero regard to or connection with what their old story used to be. Enjoy!"

We are at the point where there is almost no champion in the game has even a connection with their original bio. I can still remember most of the original story lines and the character bios those champs have today don't even pay homage to their original origin stories much less have any connection with them.

Anivia, Ashe, Trynn, Sej, and Trundle anyone? All this Freljord crap was invented out of the blue and not a single one of these champs had ANY connection with the Freljord when they were released. Yet now, the Freljord is their ONLY backstory and their ONLY motivation. RIOT could have written about the "Opening of the Freljord" and how these champs were drawn to it and how it changed them or whatever, but they didn't.

Instead they said "Let's slash and burn all the old lore. Conduct a salted earth campaign over it. Then pretend it never existed and write everything from scratch based solely on these new champion splash arts we're doing."

How can they expect anyone to become invested in Runeterra lore of any kind when a champion's backstory, and indeed the entire nature of the continent, what exists and doesn't exist in it, and the very nature of the League of Legends itself can be changed on a whim with no connection to anything that came before.

RIOT doesn't have "lore." They have a collection of constantly evolving fan fictions with no connection to any cannon worth learning.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

That makes WAY to much sense, has it been long enough for league fanboys to start running the asylum? 9actually, that might improve the lore now that I think of it.)

Ghostagram2 votes

This might sound harsh but sometimes it feels like the current lore team really are (overzealous) fans that managed to get into an official position, with free reign over the lore. They seem to be infatuated with the characters and setting, it's just that in their bid to make the story as grand and epic as it appears in their minds, they're tearing it up by the roots.

GreenLore1 votes

{quoted}

Anivia, Ashe, Trynn, Sej, and Trundle anyone? All this Freljord crap was invented out of the blue and not a single one of these champs had ANY connection with the Freljord when they were released. Yet now, the Freljord is their ONLY backstory and their ONLY motivation. RIOT could have written about the "Opening of the Freljord" and how these champs were drawn to it and how it changed them or whatever, but they didn't.

Are you serious? Ashe and Sejuani were always freljord champions and Tryndamere became one even before the freljord event... The only real change that those 3 got in their lores was the fact that tryndameres tribe was killed by aatrox,not by noxians and that they didn't join the league.

MazerRackhem6 votes

{quoted}

Are you serious? Ashe and Sejuani were always freljord champions and Tryndamere became one even before the freljord event... The only real change that those 3 got in their lores was the fact that tryndameres tribe was killed by aatrox,not by noxians and that they didn't join the league.

Nice effort but no. By "old lore" you must mean "the one before this latest iteration," the people who've been here since the beginning know better. I give you just one example as proof of how completely RIOT has wrecked the old lore. Its so far gone you're a thread about how RIOT wrecks lore arguing that the old stuff never existed or didn't change much. That might be the impression you get if you've only seen the latest couple reboots and honestly believe RIOT's shtick that nothing was different before that. Stick around another couple of years and everything you read about the champs today will be gone as well. It's to the point that it's almost impossible to even find the original lore from the pre-season one days online. In another couple of years 1/2 the champs of today will see their bios disappear the same way.

When you reboot lore 5 times its easy to think of iteration 3 as the "old original" one but:

Example:

Trynn's old lore:

"There was a legend among the barbarians clans of the Fyrone Flats, told each time one of their own was to give birth. It was a story about a child who would enter the world with a distinctive mark on his belly— a black circular rune, resembling a snake, coiled over on itself, biting at its tail. It was said that when this child was born, it would signal the beginning of a new era. It was said that the barbarian tribes would rise up, and under the banner of a serpent-shaped rune, they would rule the world. When that child was born, the barbarian nations rejoiced. They feasted and drank and danced. And when they finished, they donned their skins, lifted their swords, and they flooded out of the flats to begin an onslaught that once again plunged the world into war. The child, named Tryndamere, became a formidable warrior. And now, here at the Institute of War, he is prepared to unleash his barbaric strength and take his place atop the world."

The first part of Trynn's complete hack job new lore:

"Fueled by his unbridled fury and rage, Tryndamere cuts his way through the tundra, mastering the art of battle by challenging the Freljord's greatest warriors. The wrathful barbarian seeks revenge on the one who decimated his clan and strikes down all those who stand between him and his final retribution.

Struggling to survive in the harsh, frostbitten Freljord, the young Tryndamere and his people warred with other tribes over the scarce resources of the land."

Some of the changes: 1st In the original maps published by RIOT Fyrone Flats was ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD from the Freljord! There are literally 6 named regions between the two with F.F. in the extreme south and Freljord in the extreme north! That's why Trynn is shirtless! He was originally a desert Barbarian in a region next to Sharima! They just didn't bother to put cold weather clothes on his character model when they decided "lets delete everything and make him a part of our Freljord reboot pack." His original art has him in a brown desert region.

2nd There is NO mention of Trynn's clan being killed. The insinuation is even that they are still alive and well.

3rd There is no mention of the Freljord whatsoever and there is no connection to it in any way shape or form.

4th In the new lore he has no messiah mark (his primary characteristic in the original) and he learns to fight AFTER the death of his clan where he clearly was the best warrior of the tribes before any "traumatic everyone dies" event could have happened.

I could go on and bring in champion after champion (Anivia originally wasn't even from Runeterra at all!! She's was a space phoenix) but this case here should suffice to demonstrate how completely RIOT destroys its old lore. RIOT has completely, utterly, and totally deleted and rebuilt the lore of almost every single champ in the league from seasons 1 and 2. The fact that people who follow the lore today don't even know that it's happened just goes to prove how completely RIOT disregards any connection with old lore while writing new stuff.

Linna Excel4 votes

I kind of wish riot just dropped the lore and started treating LOL like a fighting game. You don't need lore in a fighting game.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

I got into lol because as much as I liked dota2, it had barely any story connected to it. League did, and I would really rather not have it end up just like Dota 2's.

Linna Excel4 votes

The problem is the people who make champs have one vision, and the people doing these lore events have a completely different vision and don't really give a crap about the old champs we fell in love with because they want to do something new and don't really care about the champs.

Ghostagram3 votes

You know, I really do like the lore and would've liked more of it instead of less, but... I'm disappoint to admit I kind of agree at this point in time.

Hildebrand3 votes

My 2 cents:

On Targon as a whole, I think we have what a lore team would call a baseline, in other words, we have been given inherently flawed characters with both negetive and positive qualities, but as LoL continues to exist this lore can progress as well, more on this per individual characters.

Pantheon: his big thing before is that he was the pinnacle of human strength and superiority. Currently he is still this, he is the Aspect of War, (it is a badass name, gj lore team,) an amalgamation of millennium upon millennium of Targonian experience packed into a perfectly formed body. However, being a collection of experiences, as well, as considering Pantheon still hangs around Atreus' old home he must retain some memories, implying he still exists, just no longer as a singularity, leaving the potential for him to return as a sort of dominant personality.

Leona: If we are compare timelines of old Lore to new, the current Leona we have been presented with is most equivalent to the Leona that was mentioned before she was the chosen of the sun, a bit brutish and unelightened as compared to her peers. However, much like old leona, she does have her redeeming qualities, her resoluteness, her willingness to defend those she fights for etc. Now, onto how her story can progress, most of Leona's story takes place before She becomes an Aspect, which, much as the sun is to do, enlighten's her, potentialy presenting us with a "gooder" Leona. Which is entirely plausible, given the language.

Diana: Deceived, rebuked, and betrayed, these are the essences otf Diana's story, and all of them still exist, and while I admit, the markings will need to be rexplained, in essence her story doesn't seem to have changed much, except for the fact that she seems to have been inherently more peaceful, which makes her violence all the worse, see, much like Leona starting out more brutish makes a "reformed" Leona all the more good, a newfound violent streak in Diana shows depth to the betrayal that she feels at her core, (considering that she was basically about to be executed by her parental figures, I'd be pissed too.) However, she seems to understand that the threat that is coming is in fact greater than herself, hence why she continues to fight against it in her self-inflicted exile. Wether or not she can forgive a reformed Leona, who is now searching for her, that will be where her character can grow.

Sol: We all love our sassy space dragon, but at this point, I fail to see how a supremely intelligent imortal cosmic creator cannot see the logic in his bindings, at some point he will have to come to terms with the fact that the beings he creates universes for have free will, and will do what it takes to survive, how he will come to terms with this well, I have a pretty good idea...

Taric: all but confirmed as an Aspect of some kind, he seems to be relatively new, seeing as how Aol seems to have never come in contact with this Aspect before. Now, taric is said to be keeping his upright paladin nature, so we can assume that he is virtous and fair, as such he represents the good of Targon, (and humanity as a whole really,) which is the perfect way to reform something that is entirely alien and unsympathetic to humans.

tl;dr Targon lore ain't over yet, let's wait until Taric sings, shall we?

Called Sol "Aol" by mistake, may have accidentally created the greatest joke skin of all time.

http://www.quizanswers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/blue-white-triangle-blue-circle-logo-quiz-mangoo.png

Talos of Altmora4 votes

Pantheon is no longer a badass normal human, he is a space-parasite that like to wear corpses and fight.

Linda is not showing any sign of being better and I never got the impression that she will protect me, but burn me at the stake for heresy the second I open my mouth. Even reformed, she still becomes an obsessive stalker.

Diana may be more peaceful, but considering when her plan for peace failed she went straight to murder... yeah, that is not right.

Sol knows that, he just doesn't care, as far as he is concerned "You look at my piece of art and I look at you for mild amusement, what you did to me, however, is unforgivable."

on taric, I didn't go into him and considering Leona was a "paladin" and they replaced her with Linda, I'm scared for Taric now.

It isn't over yet, but that doesn't mean I have to like the way it is now.

Hildebrand4 votes

Your reasoning is cyclical and therefore circumspect.

Your reasoning given is like a child saying because over and over again.

Honestly, it's kind of gross that you can sit there and say the Lore team did a bad job when you wont even actually explain your own thoughts. You make several claims. pantheon is not human despite having a 100% human body, Leona not being changed for the better, despite it explicitly saying so particularly in reference to the heretic Diana, Diana herself, and you somehow thinking that a religiously indoctrinated child would swing to extremes despite like literal thousands of real life examples, Sol cares, A LOT, he has been thinking about what happened this entire time, don't say he doesn't care, he quite obviously is deeply emotionally invested. And then you spouted some nonsense about how you're afraid they'll change Taric's personalty, (despite what I listed as already been confirmed by several reds to be returning,) citing that they changed these champs already, when no, they really really didn't, they made them not ideals, they made them people, actual characters, like good writers should do.

Talos of Altmora4 votes

"You make several claims. pantheon is not human despite having a 100% human body,"-Alright, then what do you call a corpse being inhabited by a something not of this earth? Human? I don't think so. just because the body is human doesn't mean it is, would you call a demon inhabiting someone and stealing their identity human?

"Leona not being changed for the better, despite it explicitly saying so particularly in reference to the heretic Diana,"-She was put in charge of the Ra-Horak, their version of the inquisition. Leona would probably be more than a little appalled about what being in the position actually entails. Linda seems to have embraced it wholeheartedly.

"Diana herself, and you somehow thinking that a religiously indoctrinated child would swing to extremes despite like literal thousands of real life examples."- I don't know what you mean by this. Diana in the Old lore swing from "Hey I have a point" to murderous zeal, but in the new lore she a lot more stable. If you are referring to Linda, well she was raised like that too in the old lore, but she maintained her compassion. Hell, maybe she was the embodiment of a good Solari in the old lore too, but in the new lore she went from "KILL THE HERETIC!" to "SHARE ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE!" Which is a complete one-eighty and makes her look inconsistent in her lore.

"Sol cares, A LOT, he has been thinking about what happened this entire time, don't say he doesn't care, he quite obviously is deeply emotionally invested"-http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Aurelion_Sol. His lines show mild amusement from humans And utter contemt for Targon. He is invested because his stars are dying, and he is enslaved. other than that, he just looks at us the way we look at animals; cute, amusing, and at times annoying.

"And then you spouted some nonsense about how you're afraid they'll change Taric's personalty, (despite what I listed as already been confirmed by several reds to be returning,) citing that they changed these champs already, when no, they really really didn't, they made them not ideals, they made them people, actual characters, like good writers should do."-they never were ideals, they were people in the old lore. They have changed them, you have seen the lore right? I'm worried because Taric seems like a nice guy, but now he maybe be like how linda is "nice" and "compassionate". They didn't make them characters, they were already that in their own right, they made them different people entirely!

Hildebrand2 votes

Pantheon is still ultimately limited by his human body, due to the tremendous amount of experience, as well as the body discipline, he has reached the peak of humanity. Look at theat last phrase, "peak of humanity" you know where I got that? Panth's old lore, he is, essentially, the same thing, in fact, I'd argue that the current panth is almost a cop-out for the lack of any real character that pantheon had before, (baker line aside,) to say he isn't human is to say he is something greater in this instance, but in reality, he isn't, he has no cosmic power like Leona, Diana or Sol, he has not ascended past humanity like Xerath Nasus, Renekton and Azir, he is, at his core, a human with an infinite amount of experience. The Aspect inhibiting in him has not granted him any powers. Also, you keep saying Atreus' body is dead, this is incorrect, his body is alive and well, Atreus' soul, his being is what is dead, replaced, or consumed by something else, (the Pantheon,) to imply that this equates him to being something akin to a zombie is just ridiculous.

Again, you keep focusing on who Leona was before she became an aspect, which I had just finished saying is not who she is anymore, honestly did you even read what I wrote before you responded?

Diana, I honestly have no idea what you are saying here, that people don't change? We are talking about a group of people who are now essentially inhabited by gods, and you think that doesn't effect their personality, like, is that really what you think?

Sol, is actually stated to have shown great care for all of his creations, particularly Targonians, however his enslavement has turned him bitter, this change is exactly indicative of how deep his care for the matter was/is.

Taric HE WILL STILL BE A GOOD PALADIN OF THE PEOPLE, THIS IS CONFIRMED ALREADY, honestly, it's like you didn't read half of my sentences. And no, they really weren't "people" in the old lore, they were very cookie-cutter, with Pantheon being the pinnacle of human strength, representing the IDEAL of peak strength, Diana, was basically just heretic girl with nothing else really to her, (except one of the best login themes Riot has ever released,) and Leona was the perfect nice person in EVERY SINGLE WAY ALL HER LIFE NEVER FAILED OR FALTERED. These aren't people,they have no motivations, goals emotions, nuances to their characters, they are flat, static, and grossly underused, old lore Targonian's were like those first time player's DnD characters, they are built on superficial ideals, and contain nothing underneath that.

Honestly, it seems like you want these characters to be static and one dimensional, and I honestly cannot see how someone who has an obvious vested interest in these characters wants them to be reduced to a few line archetypes, it is truly mind boggling.

In response to Warlord,, because I don't want to double post if possible:

You say Leona's writing is weird because it doesn't really get time to explain how she changes, but I think that's not just a time and space saving trick, it's a non-omniscient narrator, we are left to realize that life in the Spanish Inquisition Ra'Horak has changed her selfless personality, and not for the better? How are we to draw this, juxtaposition, we are presented with a timeskip, width two different Leona's, in two different positions, with the connector being her being transferred to the Ra'Horak, therefore it is logical to conclude that this is a cause and effect relationship.

You seem to want RiotLore to spell out every nuance for you, but that doesn't A leave them with any room for the future, or B make for good storytelling, info dumps suck, so they let us read between the lines when they can, why so many people seem to have missed this one which seems like it's trying to punch you in the face with it's obviousness, I really don't know.

I'm also not saying that all religious Zealots are homicidal either, but rather to say that this as a base of actions for Diana and Leona in the New lore is not without real world precedent, that these characteristics are something we can find in our own societies, which is what makes their lore more real, rather that archetypal.

See, with Graves and TF, there is an inherent difference in the lore changes, the bilgewater event did not take waway any old lore, it just gave a sort of part for all characters involved, this allows Riot to build off of peoples expectations, however, Riot's goal with the Targon event is not a part 2 like bilgewater, but rather a reboot, you can't play off expectations because the previous actions don't exist anymore, they have to strip them down past their motives, to their essence, and then go from there. My best metaphor would be bilgewater was adding a second story to your lego house, Targon is smashing everything but the bottom layer, and building a new house, (preferably one with those cool laxer turrets on it.)

Alright, I see your point with Pantheon, however, my mind instantly adjusted it to fit and here is how: Pantheon is well, a pantheon of warriors all melded together, most likely Pantheon's previous hosts are all contained in him as well, this would now include our well written Atreus, who, as the only member of the Pantheon's consciousness with any knowledge of the modern Runterra, is most likely being used as a memory bank, so his feelings, impressions and desires are all leaking into the Pantheon as a whole, causing a sort of tie to this place, rather than the casual badassery of the hivemind alien that is pantheon. This honestly seems to be what Riot is trying to say, in not so many words.

Headbiter6 votes

Diana, was basically just heretic girl with nothing else really to her, (except one of the best login themes Riot has ever released,) and Leona was the perfect nice person in EVERY SINGLE WAY ALL HER LIFE NEVER FAILED OR FALTERED. These aren't people,they have no motivations, goals emotions, nuances to their characters, they are flat, static, and grossly underused, old lore Targonian's were like those first time player's DnD characters, they are built on superficial ideals, and contain nothing underneath that.

Bullshit and you know it, ESPECIALLY with Diana. In fact, the new lore takes motivation, goals and nuances AWAY from her. In the new lore she stumbles over the original knowledge through PUNISHMENT, finds the armor by getting tugged along by the illusion of an old woman and even when she slaughters the elders, it's something out of her control. THIS is a girl without motivation. She never did anything out of her own ambition, instead she just get pushed from plot point to plot point by powers very muchbeyond her. Hell, she nearly even fucks her own story arc up by going "I'm not special".

The OLD Diana meanwhile did the research on her own, ACTIVELY searching for clues about what would turn out to be the Lunari, she combined the clues HERSELF and found the armor due to her skills and abilities, instead of just being dragged there by a random vision and while the moon (armor) empowers her, she kills the Solari elders herself. It is HER decision and she has to live with the consequences of her actions. She becomes that "heretic girl" because she felt betrayed and realised that she'll never have a place among her people, which, last time I checked, are actual emotions, in contrast to the new "Bwuh? What did I do here?"

And funny you should mention overused D&D-clichées, since DEAD. PARENTS.

Concerning Leona, I can't tell yet if they actually took away from her personality as they did with Diana, I CAN however say that you're projecting as hell with her. She was a fierce warrior, a strong and reliable member of the war-focused Rakkor-tribe, who, as far as we know, COULD indeed go toe to toe with the likes of Pantheon. She was certainly no "perfect nice person", she simply concluded that her strength and ability should be used for protecting those weaker than her, instead of killing for your own glory. That is what's called a PHILOSOPHY. It's just that the dipshit-demographic on the forums is to mentally inept to tell the difference between a DEFENSIVE attitude and a PASSIVE/PACIFISTIC one (as evidenced by many adcs in the game as well) that people somehow got that myth in their head that she's this pacifistic poster child.

See, with Graves and TF, there is an inherent difference in the lore changes, the bilgewater event did not take waway any old lore,

Except that they whitewashed the conflict between those two, by making TF's formerly FACTUAL betrayal of his friend just "a silly misunderstanding". Phew, dodged a bullet there. Almost had to write two characters overcoming an actual emotional dilemma, huh?

Hildebrand2 votes

An unyielding avatar of the moon's power, Diana wages a dark crusade against the sun-worshiping Solari. Though she once sought the acceptance of her people, years of futile struggle shaped her into a bitter, resentful warrior. She now presents her foes with a terrible ultimatum: revere the moon's light, or die by her crescent blade.

Though she was born to the Solari, Diana's inquisitive nature set her apart from her brethren. She had always found solace and guidance in the night sky, and questioned the dominance of the sun in her society. The Solari elders responded to her challenges with only derision and punishment. Diana remained convinced, however, that if she could find evidence of the moon's power, the elders would listen to reason. For years, she studied Solari archives in solitude until she discovered an encoded message hidden in an old tome. This clue led her to a secluded valley on Mount Targon where she unearthed the hidden entrance to an ancient, sealed temple. Inside, among aging relics and faded murals, she found an ornate suit of armor and a beautiful crescent blade, both inscribed with sigils of the moon. Diana donned the armaments and returned to the Solari elders that night. She declared that the artifacts proved others had once worshiped the moon as she did. Her discovery of evidence challenging Solari dominion shocked the elders. To Diana's horror, they pronounced her a heretic and condemned her to death. As the elders prepared her for execution, Diana's anger and sorrow overwhelmed her desire for acceptance. She lifted her gaze to the sky, calling upon the moon for strength. Lunar power surged within her and she shattered her bindings. Raising her relic blade, she turned and slaughtered the elders. With the temple in ruins behind her, Diana resolved to destroy all those who would deny the power of the moon.

"The sun does not reveal truth. Its light only burns and blinds." ― Diana

There, Old Diana's Lore, in its entirety, available at your local wiki page for the low low price of an extra button click. Everything past this, is either, little bits like IronStylus saying that the moon mark is a physical brand maybe perhaps, its his headcannon, but an author's headcannon is probably the closest thing to actual cannon.

Where exactly do you see nuances? Motivation? Technically speaking, we are actually presented with the same exact story this time, with more words thrown in.

For Leona's Lore, again, we don't get a whole lot, honestly, but tl;dr is "she was good warrior, but refuse to kill, when she is about to be killed for this, boom sunlight" That is literally both of her lores in a single sentence, and if that isn't indicative of how un-nuanced this story is, I don't know what can be.

On the subject of TF/Graves, you are right, I missed that bit.

Headbiter1 votes

[deleted]

Hildebrand3 votes

And here Ladies and Gentlemen is what we call unwarranted toxicity, I made a joke spoofing game shows, I get responded to with gross sexual sexual overtones, and pretentious dick-finagling. I honestly feel bad for whatever made you this fucking bitter. Get help man, you got issues stretching way beyond the lore of a video game, I'm serious, see someone.

Headbiter2 votes

Oh, joke my ass, you tried to be pissy and smarmy as you've been in your every post so far, only that in contrast to Talos I'm indeed far too jaded (by encountering far too many %%%%'s who tried to pull the same shit you do, just to answer that question) to encounter that with kindness. And your pretentious "evul toxicity"-excuse works as little to cover up you dodging the perfectly valid demonstration of your willful ignorance to the bloody FACTS, as your little grandstanding act of "Ladies and gentlemen".

If you can't stand to be talked to that way, try being less of an arse and more intellectual honesty next time.

Hildebrand2 votes

{quoted}

Oh, joke my ass, you tried to be pissy and smarmy as you've been in your every post so far, only that in contrast to Talos I'm indeed far too jaded (by encountering far too many %%%%'s who tried to pull the same shit you do, just to answer that question) to encounter that with kindness. And your pretentious "evul toxicity"-excuse works as little as your little grandstanding act of "Ladies and gentlemen".

If you can't stand to be talked to that way, try being less of an arse and more intellectual honesty next time.

You're right I was being smarmy, it's called sarcasm, difficult concept for you apparently.

I also like how you said that my calling you out for being a piece of literal trash with toxicity as ineffective, yet you deleted and edited your comment, sounds like it was pretty effective to me.

Headbiter1 votes

Oh, it was sarcasm now? Funny how you spell ill-deserved overconfidence.

works as little to cover up you dodging the perfectly valid demonstration of your willful ignorance to the bloody FACTS

Might wanna try to actually read edits there, Sally, despite us already establishing you prefer delving in cheap polemics rather than actual fact checking.

And if you honestly think that it was ME who deleted my comment, you're as delusional as you are void of substance. The edits - consisting of deleting one word and one sentence, both of which made clear, in no uncertain terms, what I think of people who look down on others' reading comprehension when being pathetically ill-equipped in that regard themselves - are a ridiculously small price to pay to kick your pathetic, SJW-inspired silencing-tactics in the ass. Your arguments were shit, you reacted with hostility on me calling you out on that, I doubled down on your attitude AND gave ample proof on my claims and now you're riding the butthurt-train in lieu of actual counter-arguments.

So yeah, you keep pressing the report button and keep up the sass, and you'll keep on getting what's coming to you with a fresh slice of factual arguments as sides.

Hildebrand2 votes

I like how you accuse me of polemic actions when you have spent over 80% of your text space on all of your recent boards history insulting people. Hypocritical much?

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