Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

I Miss Old Swain.

Talos of Altmora·9/28/2019, 3:17:28 PM·29 votes·18,013 views

New Swain certainly is a champion. A long time ago while I was still a frequenter of these boards there was a joking thread here where We were discussing his then up-coming rework. Vaarus (Unlike him I will keep to Darkin naming conventions) had come out and retconning the man who had nothing to lose to two men, a darkin that... well while it's an interesting concept it was not Varus. We worried about it happening to Swain you see: One in particular portrayed a version of Swain, the Master Tactican, as a dumb, brutish tank of a man.

Luckily new Swain... well he is something isn't he? I don't really mind him, but... well, I kinda prefer Old Swain over all. Partly because he was my favorite mid-laner and his kit of being a tanky mage was interesting. Though this isn't the place to discuss new-Swain's Kit of course. Overall the lore for him is... mostly fine. I knew there wasn't gonna be as much mystery about them, given that Old-Swain's backstory is basicly (Mysterious Cripple with a pet bird that may or may not be a crow demon) and I like the Idea of Swain having a larger goal and motivation outside of noxus, given I'm quite fond of villains with those types of motivations, and even I would have had Old-Swain be a hard-liner Noxus patriot (Despite, well, he was a part of the Black Rose, though he did leave i think it could be argued he was manipulating the society of Noxius to his own gain. ) Not to mention... well in the Old Lore, back when there was a League Of legends in the game he managed to manipulate Demacia and get himself crowned as leader, after gaining popular support through people Like Darius and getting rid of the admittedly kinda Stupid Evil Noxian leaders who opposed him. Tyrant Swain is basicly him... he won. And then Old Lore stopped but hey it was certainly interesting...

That's how i liked swain; he's a schemer with great power, able to manipulate cultures and civilization against one another. He's a great tactician, great mage and honestly perhaps in need of an expanded backstory.

New Swain is... similar, though i will certain miss old Swain in his deign (Seriously, new Swain Looks like Lucius Malfoy. I liked the kinda-Ugly Bald bad-guy) And voice (wasn't much but i like Snarky Old Dude)

And well... new Swain is interesting as he's fighting two wars (one against Ionia, the other against Demacia) that are drains on resources… oh, and lost his hand (Gangplank and him... are the other villains going to lose hands too?) And well.. that doesn't sound like Swain. haven't read a lot of the new Fluff but Swain... never struck me as the type to go lose a hand, benefits him in the long run or not. Seriously, don't make Him Abaddon. There's only so much 'actually this went EXACTLY as i wanted even though i lost a recourses AND a hand!' so uh... well they need to be careful moving on. Plus... well, he's rather interesting in that given that Old Swain was against needless conflicts...

Still... While I dislike New Swain a bit... he's fine.

53 Comments

Kenneky9/28/2019, 7:37:12 PM9 votes

Looking at old Swain he looked like Singed, the new one looks more serious and not like a cartoon villain as the old one did. I prefer his new visual over his old, he just looked so stupid and goofy in my opinion. But If you like that, it's fine, I just really, really love his new character more. His voice and lore are amazing, loving his new character.

Milky Thighs9/28/2019, 6:06:47 PM8 votes

I don't. The new one is hot.

ShyImagoghnar9/28/2019, 8:06:26 PM5 votes

old swain was fucking busted in ARAM with the right build. loved that shit. love finding mode-specific builds

Kazekiba9/28/2019, 3:30:41 PM5 votes

Swain, Skarner, Sylas, and a number of other champions might stand to benefit heavily from a Pre-season item shop overhaul introducing Bruiser mage items so I'm hesitant to say anything about them until it happens or ... Or preseason for some reason cancels the Rod of Ages/Catalyst update etc.

The thing with Swain losing his hand though was to force him to remain "crippled" somewhat, as that was a key factor in the old swain's visual appeal, but likely the demonic hand thing was either way edgier and appealed more to the yuppie Californian designers who consider Star Wars to be the pinnacle of relevant cultural inspiration ... or to more broadly appeal to Chinese boys that Riot's primary solitary demographic consists of.

Oh and the "Hey you know how Demacia is virtue and Noxus is Social Darwinist Extremism and Vice? Okay but what if Demacia was corrupt and evil and Noxus were the good guys for NO REASON????" whole thing so now Swain, instead of being the ruthless mastermind with a demon puppet, is uhh, a good guy fighting against the void and protecting people??? From nightmare visions of whats to come ... not sure why they went that angle when they couldve just made a new champion for it

Infernape9/28/2019, 4:40:17 PM5 votes

God I miss his old E. There was something satisfying about watching someone burn to death through his E amplifying Deathfire Touch and the rest of his damage.

I actually miss Swain being a DoT mage over one oriented on burst.

At least new Swain's lore is interesting. Especially his interactions with LeBlanc.

GelsominoKiller9/28/2019, 11:17:45 PM4 votes

"We expected motherfucking Twin Lannister, instead we got Lucius Malfoy"

New Swain...

...is old but doesn't look like it (dye his air black, and he will look 40 at Max)

... he's a cripple but not really (having a fully functional demon arm it's an upgrade, not a disability)

... he's a super smart master tactician but that's because he can see the memories of the dead with his demon powers

He went from being a creepy ugly balding old cripple to a dignified, silver fox-y, long haired warlock.

I miss those unsettling elements in his persona, and I believe it's a shame they were removed not because a new creative direction, but because of the "nobody wants to play a gravedigger" mentality, i.e. champions must appeal the target audience of teenagers and thus must be likeable to them.

That's why Urgot and Yorick aren't grotesque anymore, that's why non-humanoid champions are so rare, that's why can't have a non-attractive female champion (even poppy went from stubborn and ugly to cute and clueless) etc.

NelsieLisnen9/29/2019, 8:49:36 AM4 votes

Agree 100%. New Swain never felt like a unit if I'm being honest. He is whatever in pretty much every way. Riot may have delivered a much more balanced champ with his rework but his old identity is completely gone. I especially hate that his new ultimate just gives him a meh pair of wings instead of turning him into the terror-bird. Old Swain was all about his deceptively frail physique, his limping walk making him look like a backline mage and how he could snap and turn on you as a demonic atrocity. New Swain isn't even terrifying anymore, he's become too stereotypical. Now granted that I like the more badass approach to is theme, that's about all he's got going for him.

FSRER9/29/2019, 5:27:46 PM4 votes

Swain rework was one of the reworks that added way more in terms of lore than they did in gameplay. I like current Swain because everything he says and does is well thought out something that many champions (even newer reworks/voice reworks like Ashe) lack. For me he is one of the very few champions that brings the world of runetera in Summoners Rift making him extremely enjoyable to play. Old Swain lacked in many aspects, like every old champion. The only thing I miss from him is the famous dance animation (you know which one).

And as for Gangplank, he has been reborn way back in the days, one of the very few reworks that were canon (there was a progression, he exsisted died and was reborn) while most of the champion reworks are not canon, like swain, nothing special happened to him to turn him from what he was before to what he is now. I don't know how to explain it better but I hope you understand what I mean

GreenLore9/28/2019, 4:35:28 PM4 votes

I mostly agree with you.

New Swain is overall an improvement, but I just like the design of old Swain more, as it felt much more unique and conveyed the idea of a mysterious schemer a lot better, whereas new swain is more focused on the theme of the noxian tyrant.

I don't have a big problem with new Swains lore though, I'm pretty sure that he is still supposed to be mainly a schemer, thats why they gave him the ability to look into peoples souls, so that he has access to a lot of information, allowing him to easily manipulate others. It's just that new Swain didn't have a lot of time to show this off. Remember that old Swains grand scheme went on for several stories, starting with him capturing J4, after that Boram died, then he went on to bolster his position in the kalamanda conflict and after that he finally became the grand general by killing one of Borams sons(speaking of them, I'd actually like it if they introduced them back in the new lore). Meanwhile new Swain simply didn't have enough lore releases to pull of something like this.

My biggest gripe with new swains lore is actually that it skipped over the way Swain was able to subdue Beatrice and that Swain seemingly killed Boram with a big revolution instead of the above scheme. Both of these decisions feel like they were only made to keep his bio short.

BLIGHTBRINGER9/28/2019, 6:18:38 PM4 votes

Varus item 3070

hhaavviikk9/28/2019, 8:04:13 PM4 votes

Worst thing about new swain: Swain players begging for a dragonmaster swain skin so they can walk around as a dragon, they tend rework swain so that it's impossible to walk around as a dragon.

To be serious it ruined allot of skins for me, ult transformation so lame now.

Arakadia9/28/2019, 10:30:07 PM4 votes

The fact they were intending to entirely remove his raven theme is disgusting and tells me nothing is off the board for Riot.

Pandemic Punch9/29/2019, 3:12:44 PM4 votes

Agreed. Old Swain was soooo much better. Same with Original morde, old Soraka, Shen, Sejuani, Vlad, Malzahar, and a others that I mained until they got reworked.

In Swain's case, his abilities feel awful. He is now a burst mage that needs to get in close but can't unless you are laning vs him as a slow tank or melee champion. Old Swain had a more reliable slow, ult, and damage over time in all of his abilities except his stun.

Both old versions of his Q were more fun for boomers who arent trying to get carpal tunnel from flashes, dashes, and skill shots.

Velasan10/2/2019, 3:08:41 AM3 votes

I understand what you're saying. New Swain is interesting as his own character and there are things I like about the new one. However, the new Swain is really not a modernized version of old Swain. Rather they decided to go with an entirely new character that happens to share the name.

In terms of reworks he would be most similar to Galio. There is some remnant of the old kit in there with his ult, but the rest of his game play and the thematic have changed.

I'm over thinking they might change anything about him though. At this point he's already been out a while and they revisited his kit recently when they added the stacking HP from souls. While the HP stacking is a nice addition it was also the time they were most likely to take a look at other parts of his kit and makes updates. When they decided not to change any other parts of his kit it became clear the new one is here to stay; for better or for worse.

One last thing to add, if they were trying to make a charismatic Noxian leader you would pay attention to I don't think the new Swain is that champion. He doesn't have the sinister vibe the original had, nor a kit that lets him take charge in the same way (he's very team reliant). Also, not that much stands out about him as far as looks go. Compared to the old one with the green hues, half hidden face, and demon crow, the new one is a mage in some chest armor and that's it.

The one place I do give a lot of credit on new Swain is his sound effects and voice. The sound design team did a really good job and the choice of voice actors works really well including the intonation the actor gave the lines (plus the Noxian whispers that happen during the ult are cool).

Sinister Anubis9/29/2019, 12:21:44 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jId5AL1A,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-28T15:17:28.123+0000)

New Swain certainly is a champion. A long time ago while I was still a frequenter of these boards there was a joking thread here where We were discussing his then up-coming rework. Vaarus (Unlike him I will keep to Darkin naming conventions) had come out and retconning the man who had nothing to lose to two men, a darkin that... well while it's an interesting concept it was not Varus. We worried about it happening to Swain you see: One in particular portrayed a version of Swain, the Master Tactican, as a dumb, brutish tank of a man.

Luckily new Swain... well he is something isn't he? I don't really mind him, but... well, I kinda prefer Old Swain over all. Partly because he was my favorite mid-laner and his kit of being a tanky mage was interesting. Though this isn't the place to discuss new-Swain's Kit of course. Overall the lore for him is... mostly fine. I knew there wasn't gonna be as much mystery about them, given that Old-Swain's backstory is basicly (Mysterious Cripple with a pet bird that may or may not be a crow demon) and I like the Idea of Swain having a larger goal and motivation outside of noxus, given I'm quite fond of villains with those types of motivations, and even I would have had Old-Swain be a hard-liner Noxus patriot (Despite, well, he was a part of the Black Rose, though he did leave i think it could be argued he was manipulating the society of Noxius to his own gain. ) Not to mention... well in the Old Lore, back when there was a League Of legends in the game he managed to manipulate Demacia and get himself crowned as leader, after gaining popular support through people Like Darius and getting rid of the admittedly kinda Stupid Evil Noxian leaders who opposed him. Tyrant Swain is basicly him... he won. And then Old Lore stopped but hey it was certainly interesting...

That's how i liked swain; he's a schemer with great power, able to manipulate cultures and civilization against one another. He's a great tactician, great mage and honestly perhaps in need of an expanded backstory.

New Swain is... similar, though i will certain miss old Swain in his deign (Seriously, new Swain Looks like Lucius Malfoy. I liked the kinda-Ugly Bald bad-guy) And voice (wasn't much but i like Snarky Old Dude)

And well... new Swain is interesting as he's fighting two wars (one against Ionia, the other against Demacia) that are drains on resources… oh, and lost his hand (Gangplank and him... are the other villains going to lose hands too?) And well.. that doesn't sound like Swain. haven't read a lot of the new Fluff but Swain... never struck me as the type to go lose a hand, benefits him in the long run or not. Seriously, don't make Him Abaddon. There's only so much 'actually this went EXACTLY as i wanted even though i lost a recourses AND a hand!' so uh... well they need to be careful moving on. Plus... well, he's rather interesting in that given that Old Swain was against needless conflicts...

Still... While I dislike New Swain a bit... he's fine.

I miss old karma and old eve.

Ice Weasel X9/28/2019, 8:14:28 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jId5AL1A,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-28T15:17:28.123+0000)

Vaarus... had come out

I see what you (probably unintentionally) did there.

VelvetCrotch10/3/2019, 6:38:09 AM1 votes

I absolutely hate old swain.

But I miss old garen visuals