My problems with the Apects (and a minor talk on the void)

Talos of Altmora··20 votes·2,477 views
My problems with Targon

Well, I think i have made my point very clear about targon. But there is one last thing that I need to let out., the second largest problem i have the Targon; the aspects. I've gone into detail with them in My problems with new!Taric, but I thought I might go into depth with them.

Let's start with Pantheon, he paints a very poor picture of the rest of his kind. Pantheon removed Atreus from his mortal body, and now works for targon. He also is the one in charge of overseeing Sol whenever they need him to blow something up. Let me get this out of the way; like all of the other aspects, he is a flat character. What we do see of him paints him as not caring about his host, and... that's about it really. In sol's short story, she is a slave-driver who is incarnated by sol. Honestly, the way he goes about it is cruel. He Uses the bodies of his host, and if they said no (and strangely, nota single one of the hosts ever said no) I have a feeling he won't care.

The Sun aspect is a interesting case. He shows up at the beginning and at the end of Linda's (see the other post for details) story and is the source of her powers. when he enters Linda's mind, her hatred of Diana is changed to be simple waiting to go navel-gazing with her. It's creepy. He is a deus ex machina to get Linda into a place that she can work together with Diana. Ill get into my little theory on the aspects on a whole later, but he creeps the hell out of me.

The Moon aspect manages to be darker, it takes a hipster by the name of Diana, and leads her up the mountain and gains the aspects. It takes control of her and gets it's host some armor and a sword, and then sends Diana back. When Diana gives her speech to the solari, but instead of Diana killing them in self defense, the moon does it for her. It uses her body to kill the elders... and quite strangely leaves the leader of the Ra-Horak alive. Of course, perhaps the moon aspect and the sun aspect were working together, but that's later.

The Protector is honestly the nicest of the bunch, but even he is suspect. I like that he is at least concerned with people, but he strangely seems very manipulative. He's honestly the best of the bunch, but that's because he's a person instead of a magic plot device. He also doesn't seem to object to, say, The "misguided" Soalri who are implied to have killed "Heretics" before. He's honestly a strange on, that's for sure. I personally feel that the main problem i have with Taric is he's new ego. In fact, i like to think that is his short story, the two armies look at one another for a brief second, and then promptly beat the crap outta him. Why? i think it's funny.

Now, Let'sd talk about SOl's Slavery. Sol destroys my sympathy towards the targonians. Yes, he's an egotiscal asshole, but he is honestly the most likeable of the bunch. The aspects and the Targoinan slave empire treat him like a tool, and if he disobeys, one of his stars will be destroyed. He views the stars as his children, and given that the original lore implied that the sun was senitient, it may not be metaphorical. Not to mention that they never say that the other worlds those stars orbit have sentient life on it (or life in general) so for all we know, they commit genocide for the benefit of stopping the void and getting their toy to work. Granted, i doubt it, but given their behavior, they seem to be the type to do anything to stop the Void. Anyways, enslaving a thinking being, and killing something that he loves if he disobeys is a great way to lose my sympathy.

Now, my theory on the Aspects; they are the type of aliens that work for 'The Greater Good". (No, not the Tau's philosophy, even they have their limits.) The Greater good, as in, to quote Litch from DOTA 2 "For the greater good! Mine!" They seem to be only be interested in their empire and preserving it. They only care about Targon because it holds significant to THEM, they oppose the void because, well, it's the one thing that could destroy the universe. The Aspects do not care for their hosts. Pantheon kills his host and uses their body as a meat-puppet, the sun aspect controls his host by altering her mind until it better suits it. the Moon aspect takes over Diana and does all the work, and the protector is... well he's better, but he's the only one. They don't care about their hosts, after all, they are just one

They oppose the void, but in the end, they are no more sympatheic than the Hp lovecraft rejects. You wanna know why? I know about the void, they have a character, they have a unique theme and lore. You see, if the void does do a full scale attack, Runeterra is screwed. Cho'gath is a kaiju, Vel'Koz can melt anything, kogmaw is a living artillery/ machine gun. And there is more, a damn near infinite about of them. They work better as a threat that comes in slowly, like they need a certain cultist (AKA Malzahar) to weaken the boundaries or something like that. It makes them weak, but at least it's justified and makes it possible for them to be defeated. They have a relatable motive: They're hungry, and with the notable exception of Cho, they're not exactly cruel about it.

But the aspects are not given characters. Kog'maw is creepily innocent, Vel'kox is curious, Cho's a sadistic monster who actively hates runeterra, and Kha wants to be the very best, like no voidborn ever was. The aspects though? all of that up there was just my interpretation, ultimately they are Deus ex machina. They do nothing for the story, and they just come off as creepy and ultimately unnecessary.

Well, what are your thoughts on the aspects, please share them below.

47 Comments

Sharjo14 votes

I feel like the whole beef you have with the Aspects specifically is kinda the point of them; they were never meant to be portrayed as wholly understandable entities with goals and motives that are easy to pick up on. The conflicts that exist with the characters we have for Targon, that being Aurelion Sol, Diana, Leona, Pantheon and Taric, are only worsened by the fact that there's a higher power above them that they just don't get; not even Aurelion really gets what Targon wants or where they came from. They're presented as an ambiguous force that does questionable things and seem kinda dark and not nice, but are still doing a good thing in combating the ever present threat of the Void.

I also feel like each of the Aspects has their own goals and agenda that don't correlate, and that the inner turmoil with Targon as presented with Aurelion Sol is meant to further that idea. Each Aspect is so wholly different that you do wonder what they're trying to do, and why they all operate so differently. To give an example:

The Silver Moon Aspect (Diana's) has only given her some of the information, not the whole picture. Mean while the Sun Aspect (Leona) has given her the whole picture. Why? Is the moon one trying to manipulate Diana in to doing awful things under the guise of good will, or is it the sun one who's manipulating Leona? It's only ever stated that Leona now wants to find Diana more than ever, but why? To kill her, or to side with her? Which Aspect is good? Are either of them good? Why the difference in approach?

We know there's conflict among the Aspects; that's why Aurelion Sol's returned to Mount Targon - their conflict means freedom for him, but what about? What's driven them apart? And do the Aspects we see in the Targonian champions relate to this? I feel like in the end, the Aspects are there to exist as a force beyond what all the characters of Targon know, and are intentionally presented as ambiguous to make sure they aren't pinned down in terms of what they're really about. Only the Protector is really understandable, since he's kinda just chill with Taric and vice versa, but even then do you wholly trust it?

In the end the champions of Mount Targon are all puppets of Targon, and I feel like the overall theme of Mount Targon was of beings great and small being embroiled in the affairs of beings beyond them not out of a desire, but because those beings forced this on to them. I'm pretty sure we were never supposed to root for the Aspects, but for the Targonians, if that makes sense. I understand why that doesn't sit well with you Talos, as it's a weird and tricky concept in itself that really just doesn't sit right when you think about it, but I don't think it's a Deus Ex Machina to solve all the problems; rather it's problems being further forced on to the characters. I feel like the Aspects add more difficulty to the story rather than an easy way out for our Targonian champs, becuase of how weird and mysterious the Aspects are presented to be in the first place.

Alright hopefully that came out as some kind of coherent message.

333lom8 votes

The intention may have been to intrigue us with the concept of Aspects, but I feel that it failed to achieve that goal.

The problem is that the new story erased the characters we learned to care about and put the focus on entities to which we cannot connect. There are examples where very strange entities are the main focus and succeed in sparking the imagination of the reader. Here unfortunately, the Aspects feel very disconnected and in turn their motives and actions feel uninteresting. For example, I love sci-fi stories and speculation about alien intelligence, but the Aspects feel empty to me. They feel exactly like simple plot devices.

You've written the concept and idea behind the new Targon, but that very idea wasn't integrated correctly, and on top of that it clashes with the former idea; the idea of people who were given incredible powers and duty and the journey we followed them on to see how they use them. It doesn't matter we weren't given those further stories, the base resonated with the readers. It was possible to believe the continuation can exist. It's not about the thematic of the new story, which you say is difficult to tell, it's about the very base being done flimsy. I care about the story around Targon and that's the reason I even assess the situation.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

I feel like the whole beef you have with the Aspects specifically is kinda the point of them; they were never meant to be portrayed as wholly understandable entities with goals and motives that are easy to pick up on. The conflicts that exist with the characters we have for Targon, that being Aurelion Sol, Diana, Leona, Pantheon and Taric, are only worsened by the fact that there's a higher power above them that they just don't get; not even Aurelion really gets what Targon wants or where they came from. They're presented as an ambiguous force that does questionable things and seem kinda dark and not nice, but are still doing a good thing in combating the ever present threat of the Void.

Here's the thing, an ambiguous force that does questable things to stop some threat to the universe. I understand. I would compare the aspects to the Imperium of Man from 40k, but that also runs into the problem In that the imperium has a personality. Having a personality helps you be sympathetic, and honestly, I like the void a lot better than them, they have a motive, and they follow it. They have a personality and a goal. And more importantly they'll just eat us instead of using us as pawns, mindcontroling us, and removing my soul from my mortal body and use it as cannon fodder. (Well, i'm guessing about that last part if Cho's lines are anything.) Moreove, the void can't win from a story persective, because if they win there will be no more story. It makes it difficult for them to potray either side as a threat.

I also feel like each of the Aspects has their own goals and agenda that don't correlate, and that the inner turmoil with Targon as presented with Aurelion Sol is meant to further that idea. Each Aspect is so wholly different that you do wonder what they're trying to do, and why they all operate so differently. To give an example: The Silver Moon Aspect (Diana's) has only given her some of the information, not the whole picture. Mean while the Sun Aspect (Leona) has given her the whole picture. Why? Is the moon one trying to manipulate Diana in to doing awful things under the guise of good will, or is it the sun one who's manipulating Leona? It's only ever stated that Leona now wants to find Diana more than ever, but why? To kill her, or to side with her? Which Aspect is good? Are either of them good? Why the difference in approach?

or third option, they are both working together and their both assholes. like I said, when the moon aspect decided to kill the elders, it killed everyone... aside from linda. It's implied that the sun aspect changed Linda's tune, and that she doesn't want to run Diana through with a sword. I think they want to stop the void, no matter what they do or who they hurt. the difference in apporch seems to be that the moon aspect already has more control over it's host, while the sun prefers to do it slowly.

We know there's conflict among the Aspects; that's why Aurelion Sol's returned to Mount Targon - their conflict means freedom for him, but what about? What's driven them apart? And do the Aspects we see in the Targonian champions relate to this? I feel like in the end, the Aspects are there to exist as a force beyond what all the characters of Targon know, and are intentionally presented as ambiguous to make sure they aren't pinned down in terms of what they're really about. Only the Protector is really understandable, since he's kinda just chill with Taric and vice versa, but even then do you wholly trust it?

Driving sol and targon apart? I think it might have something to do with slavery :p. In all seriousness, the whole "force from beyond" thing works better if there, like, the TRue Fae or HP Lovecraft style stories, in which they are so alien and strange that they literally can't understand humanity and thus don't give a crap about us. And to be honest, I would trust the protector farther then I can could throw him. but I guess that's your point. :)

In the end the champions of Mount Targon are all puppets of Targon, and I feel like the overall theme of Mount Targon was of beings great and small being embroiled in the affairs of beings beyond them not out of a desire, but because those beings forced this on to them. I'm pretty sure we were never supposed to root for the Aspects, but for the Targonians, if that makes sense. I understand why that doesn't sit well with you Talos, as it's a weird and tricky concept in itself that really just doesn't sit right when you think about it, but I don't think it's a Deus Ex Machina to solve all the problems; rather it's problems being further forced on to the characters. I feel like the Aspects add more difficulty to the story rather than an easy way out for our Targonian champs, becuase of how weird and mysterious the Aspects are presented to be in the first place.

I don't think you should treat characters like puppets, especially when the puppeteers are faceless creatures with no personality. I callerd them Deus ex Machina because, in the lore, that's what they did. Linda wants to kill Diana? Not anymore. Atreus is dying? "I'll take that!" Diana needs to do... well anything "I got this yo!" They were just tools that did fixed the problem.

anyways takes for replying, it's always nice when someone presents a new view of something, and even though I disagree, I think you made your points well.

Angry Monster2 votes

What if the sun and moon asspects believe that a person will thrive better in different ways. The sun thinks full illumination (full story) will allow the host to make the right choices that is need by it. While the moon aspect could think that a person unlocks them selves through discovery.

Another theory could be is what each person needs to do is different so they get different levels of information. Leona needs to work with Dia but can not do it unless she understands why. She is not capable of just forgiving just cause someone says so. Dia on the other hand has proven she needs to work towards something and wants to earn it. each approach is tailored to the person that becomes a host.

J Epstein5 votes

i have no idea what you're talking about, nor did i read all of it.

But i appreciate the amount of effort put into this. +1 upvote so others can see.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

thanks.

Mig891 votes

your names and some words are really out of place. you named leona linda?

Sharjo8 votes

Talos doesn't consider the new Leona to actually be Leona anymore, so they call her Linda instead.

Mig891 votes

oh lol

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

you and linda...... but not honestly i get where you going but i dont have much of an opinion until i get more info from riot like AurelionSol Diana Taric so far but meh.ill just enjoy the ride for now.

GreenLore2 votes

I doubt Leonas mind was altered. Her lore says that she simply got insight into the past the moment she fused with him,meaning he merely gave her some information that changed Leonas view on the whole Sun-vs-moon conflict.

Though that doesn't make her aspect less of a monster considering that leonas short lore mentions how her aspect loves it when Leona melts the barbarians.

Also I dunno how the protector is manipulative? If you are still going on about the whole " he had unknowingly been preparing for with every decision that brought him to the top of the mountain."-thing ,then keep in mind that you were already told that the protector had nothing to do with tarics life before he was exiled.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

She hated Diana enough that it allowed her to climb the mountain with taking stops for food, rest...and by extension the bathroom. that's some damn good dedication and fanatisim that would be hard to change. But the aspect waves his hand and goes into her head, she... stops.

and yeah I didn't read those sort lores aside from taric's, but that's because i was already seeing red from what they did. But... wow they're a match made in heaven.

Jaredan also said I could keep that interpretation if I want, and to be honest that line still has weird connotations. Not to mention guilt by association. and given the other aspects I would say my interpretation is warranted.

GreenLore2 votes

About Leona: Well it quite clearly says that

"She still had her memories and thoughts, was still master of her own flesh [...] It gifted her with incredible powers and awful knowledge that haunted her eyes and weighed heavily upon her soul; knowledge she could only ever share with one person. Now, more than ever, Leona knew she had to find Diana. "

Meaning that leona is still fully in control and not brainwashed,the only thing that changed is that the aspect shared some of its knowledge with her.

About Taric: He said it is understandable to jump to that conclusion,but not that it is right.

I mean he quite directly says that

" 'every decision' speaks to those made by Taric, he made his own path that led to Targon,** he wasn't being influenced by the Aspect of the Protector his whole life.**"

Talos of Altmora3 votes

and lives in her head, presumable, but it still has an influence in her mind. She still has her mind, thoughts, and flesh... but she still takes a strange change of heart for someone who, up until that time, wanted to kill someone. moreover, the panth and the moon aspect do not set a good example. Moreover, the sun aspect is a tool, a plot device, the fact that it made the conflict disappear comes across as strange, and so my conclusion is sound, at least to me.

Unfortunatly for Jaredan, the wording is still damn werid, so it still makes me think that the protector is up to something...

Catastrop3 votes

The Aspect didn't just wave his hand and tweak a few things in her head, he gave her powers along with some "awful knowledge" which she felt she could only share with Diana and Diana alone. Which frankly, I find quite intriguing because I'm just dying to know what Leona learned and why it affected her so badly.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

Maybe she now knows why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch? in all seriousness, I've heard one guy say it's an "Eldritch truth" kind a thing, except that she changed fundamentally as a person instead of turning into a madman. If Linda had learned this by coming to her own conclusions, I would be fine, well sort of.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ubRAqmLW,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2016-06-12T13:16:32.068+0000)

Maybe she now knows why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch? in all seriousness, I've heard one guy say it's an "Eldritch truth" kind a thing, except that she changed fundamentally as a person instead of turning into a madman. If Linda had learned this by coming to her own conclusions, I would be fine, well sort of.

I've heard one guy say the "awful truth" is just a Lesibian thing.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/is-league-of-legends-introducing-its-first-canon-gay-couple/

Although I dont really agree with it.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

Neither do I. Funny thing is, Originally (as detailed by ironstylus in an old post) Leona and Diana had an implied (and I use the word very carefully) relationship of some kind, it's were the quote "how would you feel if you had to kill someone you loved?" came from in my original problems with targon.

and if there is going to be a Lesbian couple in the game, I'd have thought Caitlyn and Vi would be canon first.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ubRAqmLW,comment-id=000400000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-17T22:09:40.670+0000)

Neither do I. Funny thing is, Originally (as detailed by ironstylus in an old post) Leona and Diana had an implied (and I use the word very carefully) relationship of some kind, it's were the quote "how would you feel if you had to kill someone you loved?" came from in my original problems with targon.

and if there is going to be a Lesbian couple in the game, I'd have thought Caitlyn and Vi would be canon first.

Well....yes. In GArena ads they had a Cait/Vi Valentines day sale and even presented them as a couple. But the company itself has never actually went ahead and done it with any characters -I guess the answer is they're not Bioware.

Stars Shaper2 votes

I have a question about aspects which can do or undo them for me.

Are they just targonian authorities or are they supernatural beings superior to "common" targonians?

Talos of Altmora1 votes

the second, I believe.

Stars Shaper2 votes

That's what I hope too (and it's most beliavable expecially after we knew about the Protector). But since we don't know much about Targon true inhabitants I still hold my judgement.

GreenLore2 votes

They are spiritual beings that inhabit the bodys of others(and they are the spacefaring empire from Aurelions lore) On the Targon site there is a small description of Targon that also give some info about the aspects(just scroll a bit down).

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/mount-targon/story.html

Though it is vague,it matches with the lores of the champions.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I know that, my question was if they were some kind of mystic and divine-like creatures for targonians too or if they were just targonian leaders.

GreenLore1 votes

When you say targonians do you refer to the humans or the space-targonians?

If you refer to the humans,then no,they aren't necessarily leaders. I mean Pantheon didn't make any attempts of leading the rakkor and Taric is also just doing his own thing.

If you refer to the space-targonians,then we really don't know if the aspects that we got are something special or if all of the other space-targonians are just like them.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Space-Targonians, otherwise I'd say Rakkor/Solaris :P

Kadavik2 votes

How i picture the Aspects treat Aurelion.

https://youtu.be/VevRo7kk_Y0?t=208

3:28 - 3:48

Talos of Altmora1 votes

Yeha, that's about right.

Beyond Legends1 votes

jaja well looks like we have another Impteaul in making. Meh oh well.~( ̄▽ ̄~)~

Sharjo10 votes

I wouldn't say Talos is that bad; they're explaining their problems with thorough explanation and detailed points, which is far more than Impetual does or really ever did.

Beyond Legends1 votes

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. Look at his disscussion history and you'll see what I mean. Impteaul was sane at one point and I promise you that you won't feel the same way when Talos is still bitching about targon once the lore Noxus and Demacia are both finished (or whenever the maps comes out)

Talos of Altmora3 votes

Insanity is not doing the same thing over and over again, it's doing something over and over again and expecting a different result. I wanted to post this to share my thoughts. I ultimately know I can't change it, but sharing my thoughts with a greater community is honestly better tyhan keeping it bottled up. If you have a problem with that, then why the hell do YOU keep posting comments like this?

Malicious Metal9 votes

Take a look at all my Mordekaiser threads. I might not be as sane as I was before but there's definitely some merit in my words, just like Talos. And don't you dare compare ANYONE with Impetual, that guy didn't contribute to anything while these kinds of threads actually spark discussion.

Beyond Legends1 votes

Discussion? If you count mindless circlejerking of hate as a disccusion be my guest. Just because something has merit doesn't mean it's fully correct, past one point it's just becomes properganda. This thread maybe better tham his other thread(who knows), but given his track records I have no doubt in seeing anything really new.

Also I don't remember seeing threads complaining about morderkaiser months after the lore release do I? Impteaul might not be exact same as Talos, but at the core their not really that different. Hell I sympathizedd with talos at one point. I know what it's like when the creator seemingly ruined a character/francaise, but I don't go around complaining about it on boards month after the things done. I take my losses and move on after I said my initial piece.

Beside lore disccusion has been dead for a while now. The people who cares has probably long gotten blue balls and left. I don't need to see people bitching when I'm grumpy enough as it with Riot's slow release, especially it's just same shit complaining about how targon doesn't fit talos own personal taste.

Hell maybe I should post about the mountains as high as targons of stupid shit OLD Targon had. See how many people I can piss of with that. New lore Leona is an actual character unlike the flat as board Linda

//end rant

Lintu Puck1 votes

Umm....the Aspects are pretty much like the Greek/Roman pantheon of our world. They are Gods and thus see everything else as tools and insects generally in comparison. If it doesn't belong to them or follow them and their rules, it is to be destroyed. Pantheon Pantheon is pretty much a War God, and thus the most ruthless. Diana and Leona are still who they originally were, but now are host to an Aspect that have each filled them in on the situation. Diana Diana's first action was to tell the Solari they have been wrong all this time and the The Moon is equal to The Sun, and that alone is a big mistake when faced with not just a cult but ANY long standing religion right to their face in the middle of their home. When she was once more named a heretic and to be killed she was furious they still would not listen, and her new power unleashed. This killed all the old leaders quickly since they had no armor, and knocked the armored Leona out cold. Diana, understandably spooked that she just vaporized a few people and blasted away a strong and armed warrior with such ease she fled in fear. Leona Leona was proud and was as firm and as unshakable in her will and belief in the teachings she grew up with she would naturally hate everything about Diana. Leona only faltered twice, and each time she was met with a Golden being, and each time she took the next step in life. First time it inadvertently ended up causing her to have to fight Atreus for her honor, and the battle earned her a spot amongst the Solari, and she just soaked up their teachings with fervor. She fully believed in these teachings, and would of killed Diana on the spot had it not been for Moon power. She then met the Golden Being again and got her dose of Aspect, and thus things have become at least somewhat clear to her. Now after learning the truth of things it seems she has learned the big mistake she and the Solari have been making and now seek Diana to possibly reconcile so both Sun and Moon can face the coming threat together. Taric Taric was a knight of the people who had the wit and charm to woo just about anyone, and he loved everyone and everything. He desired to protect everything he felt needed protecting, which was anything at anytime. This caused trouble with his job, and with this and a love of history it lost him title after title and then he lost an entire team because he went off to look at another thing. So he was punished to climb the mountain, and he did. His resolve to atone and the desire to be kind and protect everything, even gowing so far as to give his cape to a mere apparition of a Noxian on the mountain in a show of kindness, earned him the interest and respect of The Protector. With this new power and new purpose Taric's confidence is renewed. So with good looks, great skill, and the blessing of a GOD and the job to protect all of Valoran it isn't surprising he cameo ff that mountain a little smug.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

Umm....the Aspects are pretty much like the Greek/Roman pantheon of our world. They are Gods and thus see everything else as tools and insects generally in comparison. If it doesn't belong to them or follow them and their rules, it is to be destroyed.

First, no, the greek and roman pantheon have a personality beyond that. Each one has a different form of worship and personality. moreover, zeus, for all of his stupidity, is shown to be nice if people follow the rules, like say showing him hospitality. What you are thinking of would be something more along the lines of the Imperium of Man with a mix of the Eldar from 40k.

Second, lets talk about your points. Linda, as I cannot stress enough, hated Diana so much it allowed her to climb the mountain without rest. the fact that she stopped when the Aspect shows her knowledge, which doesn't change that fact that the moon aspect murdered a bunch of old men, is really suspious.

The moon aspect did everything for Diana, hell, she only found out about the Lunari through dumb luck, until then she just was "The Sun is to mainstream." the moon aspect led her up the mountain, put on the armor for her, and murdered the elders. It spared Linda, who is now a major threat to it's host. That's why it's strange, after all, unless the moon knew before hand, why spare her?

Linda goes after Diana, but doesn't go back to the temple and tells anyone else? I mean, you'd think she would, as the one who's incharge, try to fix and help them, but nope. She goes off looking for Diana, now having an altered persective. A perspective that was not her own, and never will be, because the sun aspect forced it upon her.

Taric made a lot of mistakes in his carrear, and I take Garen's side because Taric comes across as an ass to me. He has had his entire life ruined, he lost his home, his friends, and even his family. He was give a taks that basicly means "Buzz off and die", but he does it, still you would think that it would make him more humble, but he comes across as someone who has missed the point. He has learned nothing, he went back to square one.

Lintu Puck1 votes

1 - Yes the old gods had more personality then these odd celestial beings Riot has given us, but that is partially because we the audience barely know anything about them beside the fact they watch over Targon and to some extent the rest of the world, they fear the destruction the void will eventually bring, and that is pretty much it. However it doesn't change the fact they share something with the old gods, in that if you follow them you are blessed and if you challenge them you are to be punished. Yet upon further reflection I also feel that this might just be because of how much of a group of zealots the Solari are, and the fact that The Aspects did not stop the Solari from destroying the Lunari and wiping them from History. Either the Aspects don't have as much control as we think, or they don't care what happens as long as they have servants. Can't be a god without worshipers.

2 - Leona (who is, was, and forever will be Leona) was a faithful server of The Sun. She believed her and the Solari were right and everything. Sun is all mighty! Praise The Sun! And all that jazz. I doubt it is really that much of a stretch for Leona to put on the breaks and pull back her hatred of Diana if THE SUN ASPECT ITSELF climbed into her noggin and told her to chill and to not murder Diana. Yes Leona saw the Solari Elders murdered before her eyes, but if THE God you have believed in all your life and put so much stock in is suddenly chillin' in your head and saying there are bigger things to worry about I don't think Leona would question it.

3 - The Moon didn't do EVERYTHING for Diana. Diana herself found the old and damaged text of the Lunari. Diana soon saw an Old Woman in much the same vain as Leona's Golden Boy as both would eventually guide their respective charges up the mountain. The Moon MIGHT be responsible for Diana finding her armor and sword, but the killing of The Elders was all Diana in a blind fury. When one is young and suddenly find themselves with superpowers they don't always have great control over them, and should they find themselves enraged it tends to end with them wrecking everything in sight.

4 - Leona, being the only one to survive Diana's onslaught, was filled with a righteous fury. While all the other Solari didn't seem to know what to do Leona had 1 thing and 1 thing alone on her mind, Kill The Heretic Bitch. You'd be surprised what the human body can do when blindly and fervently heading to 1 goal. Also The Sun didn't force ANYTHING on her. The Sun, in the form of the Golden Boy, had been waiting her her to follow him and hope they weren't to late before he OFFERED his hand. Leona could of easily denied it and not taken his hand. However she, in her rapture of the golden and silver city before her, took the hand. Thus, she did agree to give herself to the golden light before her.

5 - Pretty much ALL champions have confidence of various degrees. Taric did learn, even if it isn't that well shown in his in-game dialogue. He might have a new chip on his shoulder, but he knows of the trials to comes and his role in it. He knows his job is to defend Valoran, and I doubt he will wonder off this time. I've gone and re-read his short story, and in there he states that his "wit, charm, and warmth" are his usual weapons, and that alone explains his in-game attitude.

Talos of Altmora2 votes
  1. I blame the lore team for not giving them any depth, and besides nothing implies they need worshipers. You can be a god without followers, it's just that nobody would care. Gods getting strength from worship is relatively new, and nothing about the aspects shows that they are gods, hell given they have a connection to the Targoian space empire, they are probably beings who are doing some variation of Clarke's third law. The void, as I have said. cannot win in a story perspective because wining in their case means runeterra is a buffet. It's why I prefer Kassadin and the Protectors of Valoran to do this, because before targon, it was implied the void need to weaken the barriers between dimensions to get in, and that Kassdin tries to prevent that. Here, because the aspects and the Targoinan Empire, with all of it's advanced tech and magic, and it's implied that the void is capable of getting in whenever it wants if the voidlings that Diana fought are any indication.

  2. I called it the sun aspect, but I really must question if it IS the sun that Linda worships. The only reason I call it that is because it is now the source of Linda's powers, but if you think abut it nothing about it is, you know, sunny. It has more in common with a demon than the sun. For all we know, it's claiming to be her god... and given that the "god" also told her. "FYI, that whole religion thing and those people you killed in my name? waste of time." well... yeah

  3. she found the book by sheer coincidence (because the moon aspect, she guided the aspect to the top , but after that the aspect moved her body to the armor, put it on for her, and when it's host was in danger by a bunch of old people, butchered them. Looking at DIana's lore, the moon aspect took over and Diana felt what it felt. also, while that may make since in a teenage superhero comic, it doesn't work here because even if Diana doesn't know who to do it, she has a backseat driver in her head who didn't seem to care either way.

  4. So do you not see anything weird about Linda being the only one to survive? Regardless of who was in control, Diana knows she's gonna come after her and murder her, so why leave her alive. In any case, yeah determination is a powerful thing, but she didn't need to eat, sleep, or shit? Look the human body is an amazing thing, but it has some hard coded limits. Moreover, the golden boy charmed her with the whole radiance thing, and no one, and I mean no one, every seems to refuse. Hell, given pantheon, i'd say that wasn't an option. also that last part doesn't help your case.

  5. Look, it's probably just my opinion, but if I lived in Valoran and was Demacian, Noxian, or whatever, I would not like his help. His lines come across as condescending, not exactly charming. he doesn't have anything "witty" about him, and warmth? Yeah, not feeling anything from him. I think it's just a matter of opinion, but to me he comes across as being vindicated by the protector, and thus thinking he was always right and he didn't need to change.

Toplane Fencer2 votes

I don't think it's suspicous at all - She received new information, she realized Diana wasn't wrong - so she no longer wanted to kill her. Makes sense no?

Talos of Altmora2 votes

Yes, she receives new information from a mysterious, strange being that has more in common with a demon appearance wise. Information that disregards everything she knows. And it changes her tone and tune. Yep, that doesn't sound weird to me.

Toplane Fencer1 votes

She receives new information from someone she believes is a representative of the god she worshipped her entire life.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

And what about it made her come to the conclusion that it was a representative of her God?

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ubRAqmLW,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-06-12T12:07:59.458+0000)

First, no, the greek and roman pantheon have a personality beyond that. Each one has a different form of worship and personality. moreover, zeus, for all of his stupidity, is shown to be nice if people follow the rules, like say showing him hospitality. What you are thinking of would be something more along the lines of the Imperium of Man with a mix of the Eldar from 40k.

Second, lets talk about your points. Linda, as I cannot stress enough, hated Diana so much it allowed her to climb the mountain without rest. the fact that she stopped when the Aspect shows her knowledge, which doesn't change that fact that the moon aspect murdered a bunch of old men, is really suspious.

The moon aspect did everything for Diana, hell, she only found out about the Lunari through dumb luck, until then she just was "The Sun is to mainstream." the moon aspect led her up the mountain, put on the armor for her, and murdered the elders. It spared Linda, who is now a major threat to it's host. That's why it's strange, after all, unless the moon knew before hand, why spare her?

Linda goes after Diana, but doesn't go back to the temple and tells anyone else? I mean, you'd think she would, as the one who's incharge, try to fix and help them, but nope. She goes off looking for Diana, now having an altered persective. A perspective that was not her own, and never will be, because the sun aspect forced it upon her.

Taric made a lot of mistakes in his carrear, and I take Garen's side because Taric comes across as an ass to me. He has had his entire life ruined, he lost his home, his friends, and even his family. He was give a taks that basicly means "Buzz off and die", but he does it, still you would think that it would make him more humble, but he comes across as someone who has missed the point. He has learned nothing, he went back to square one.

I dunno. I kinda side with Taric. I cant say he redeemed himself at all, but... he has a new purpose that actually fits with who he is.

Talos of Altmora1 votes

Eh, It's mostly opinion on my part, I like his job and purpose, I hate his personality.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

Eh, 1 character not having a character to your liking is fine (if they had to make every character appeal to everyone then none of the current batch of yordles would exist).

That said, I do agree with you he comes across as an "I'm holier than thou" character who so far, his only claim to fame is that he is a failed commander of a single garrison. I hope they're not going to make him the designated hero because he does annoy me a bit. Not as much as what happened to Pantheon or Leona, but let's just say if I was ever at a bar with this guy I'd prefer to drink alone.

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