SMITE player wants to move to League, saying "since I really enjoy the lore"

Pyro·Mar 2, 2015·77 votes·4,856 views

SMITE to League, Any Tips for a noob? * /r/leagueoflegends

A moment of silence for a new brother, soon to relive our disappointment.

http://i.imgur.com/kxoaTwF.gif

36 Comments

DrMarshSwampMar 2, 201523 votes

I remember when I started playing LoL for real (was playing SMITE for a long while and never really had an interest in LoL until fairly recently) and when I heard about the Retcon I got largely disappointed.

I mean LoL had something good going on and the retcon really feels unnecessary, especially since the only thing that really tied every faction's stories together was the IoW/Summoner Guild.

BubbaDukeMar 2, 201518 votes

{quoted}

I remember when I started playing LoL for real (was playing SMITE for a long while and never really had an interest in LoL until fairly recently) and when I heard about the Retcon I got largely disappointed.

I mean LoL had something good going on and the retcon really feels unnecessary, especially since the only thing that really tied every faction's stories together was the IoW/Summoner Guild.

I liked the idea of the retcon. It was going to lead to better stories imo.

I didn't think Riot would just stop updating though.

LeeDarkMar 3, 201511 votes

Retconning old lore never leads to better stories, because a retcon is only needed when you have shitty writers that can't figure out how to incorporate established lore into their stories. Good writers have the imagination and literary skill to make the universe they write about work. Shitty writers demand the universe be reshaped to fit their needs, in the hopes that it will take that much longer for you to figure out they are responsible for bad storytelling, not the universe they were writing bad stories in.

BubbaDukeMar 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Retconning old lore never leads to better stories, because a retcon is only needed when you have shitty writers that can't figure out how to incorporate established lore into their stories. Good writers have the imagination and literary skill to make the universe they write about work. Shitty writers demand the universe be reshaped to fit their needs, in the hopes that it will take that much longer for you to figure out they are responsible for bad storytelling, not the universe they were writing bad stories in.

Retcons can absolutely lead to better stories. We don't need 120 stories about how a character joined the league to find answers or justice or that the league has them imprisoned.

The world of Valoran can be a hell of a lot more interesting than that, and some of the better stories, in my opinion, that Riot has produced completely ignored the institute of war. Why would a psychopath like Jinx or a badass ghost dude like Thresh join the league? I think it is way cooler to think these people are out and about in the world.

VerandureMar 3, 20155 votes

Except it can't. Because a world cannot work with the amount of chaos and destruction integral to more than half of the champion pool.

There are way too many doomsday based characters for any writer to let them run free in the world.

Jinx is free to wreak havoc on Piltover? Based on her capabilities, seems like Vi and Caitlyn can't do anything to actually prevent her from blowing up half the city -- not something you can just undo an infinite number of times.

Cho'gath, Kog'maw, Kha'zix, Vel'koz, and Rek'sai are free to consume whatever they want. In Cho'gath's case: everything.

Brand can finally see the world burn.

Kayle and Morgana can go back to fighting their civil war without Runeterra intervention. I guess they get retconned out of the lore.

Nocturne gets to travel far and wide killing off any powerful spellcasters! Woo!

Mordekaiser, Hecarim, Karthus, and Thresh get to sew death across Valoran without any resistance. The Shadow Isles, in general, get to destroy everything.

Amumu gets no friends, but now destroys towns!

The only content that makes any sense is fighting amongst the city states. Noxus, Demacia, and Ionia balance each other out, sorta.

Vladimir gets to keep murdering people, though. For Noxus, of course.

And Zed gets to keep training his army of flippin' Ninja.

You CAN'T write a good story with this many antagonists where it doesn't devolve into formulaic dribble. We already see what they're trying to do to address some of these -- give them all a mcguffin antithesis to keep things "in balance".

NagirahMar 3, 20151 votes

Having all the antagonists captured though takes everything interesting about them away. All they will ever do in future is be controlled by random summoners. I don't want to thnk of Nocturne as that. You can't write any good stories involving them. Them destroying the entire runeterra if free is highly exaggaratd though imo. I like the idea of having no IoW, but riot is doing a terrible job at trying to do the retcon which kinda makes me hope they didn't announce it before they had written all the new bios and fixed the "tech problems".

LeeDarkMar 4, 20153 votes

Having all the antagonists run rampant through the world takes everything interesting about the ENTIRE STORY away. At least when they were controlled, there was still a story about how they were a problem, and how they were hunted and captured. Now you just have "Oh, yeah... this monster from the void exists here in Runeterra, and destroys whole villages... but nobody is gonna do anything about it. Or we can have them try to do something, but they have to fail. And they have to fail in such a way that this monster and its nemesis are in a perfect stalemate so nothing happens. And we'll do this with ALL the antagonists."

Do you want a world where EVERY plot Jinx comes up with to blow something up is foiled, but she ALWAYS escapes anyway?

Do you want a world where EVERY village Cho'gath comes upon is defended by his nemesis, and they fight to yet another stalemate with no death and destruction?

Do you want a world where Rek'sai just roams the sands and... wait... that's it. She just roams the sands. Endlessly.

Do you want a world where Rengar and Kha'zix perpetually hunt each other but for some unknown reason can never succeed? Seriously, two best hunters in the world... and they can't manage to find, lure, or do absolutely anything about each other.

Do you want a completely static world where nothing ever changes?

NagirahMar 4, 20151 votes

Do you want a world where all the antagonists are in a cage forever? Isn't that static with no changes too. Bigotry eh?

Everything you mentioned sounds far more interesting than that. IoW and world without IoW are both far from perfect, but in this situation I personally am glad it is gone.

BubbaDukeMar 3, 20152 votes

Jinx and Vi is some basic Comic book shit. Do you have any idea how many times Gotham gets torn to pieces?

The cool thing about league stories is that they are always open ended and left to speculation. As in just because one characters Lore is him destroying everything, another characters lore is him trying to protect everything. Look at Kassadin and the Void monsters. Sure the Void guys are trying to kill everyone they can find, but Kassadin is trying to stop that. Same goes for Lucian and the Shadow Isles. Who knows who will win? But it gives you a more fun idea for these character identities than "The league has us all imprisoned, so we have to fight for them. "

The only problem is Riot still has a lot of work ahead of them for Champions whose lore revolved around the institute of war. It would be nice if they'd get started on it.

LeeDarkMar 4, 20157 votes

That was my point. We had 120 stories about how a character joined the league to find answers or justice because we had shitty writers who couldn't tell any other story. That hasn't changed. Azir's story isn't better; in fact, his story could have been exactly the same, since the entirety of the story took place long before the League existed.

Why would evil, crazy, or ethereal characters join the League? Well, the thing is, Narrative never really tried to flesh out what the League could or couldn't do. They never attempted delving into the lore of the League itself and crafting a universe based upon it. What does it matter if these characters are out in the world instead? They cannot resolve the storylines. Nobody can hunt down and kill Cho'gath, because too many players would get pissed off about it. So, what--he's just out there, somewhere, rampaging through villages unhindered? That's idiotic. There is no necessary reason for champions to interact with each other at all. Who cares that Amumu is cursed? It just means stay the hell away from him. All parts of the lore are now disconnected short stories that aren't better written than the League Judgments were before all this.

And I'm sorry, but if you can't see that nothing has changed, that just means you're every bit a shitty writer as the people on Narrative.

midoriiMar 3, 20151 votes

I was so happy after the retcon, the whole 'summoners' concept felt like a huge gimmick. Kinda put me off from trying LoL for quite some time.

GunpointMar 2, 20158 votes

Be honest though, the retcon was a good idea. The whole "summoner" story etc was so half assed and the only reason people liked it was because it was the same since you started playing. Their idea is good, remove the Institute of War, and the technical "League of Legends" and just replace the story with something that ties all of Runeterra together. They completley botched it though. They simplified too much, the lores aern't long enough, you don't feel a connection with a characters. However, videos like "The Curse of the Sad Mummy" were great. It gives us more than we get from just reading Amumu's lore off a screen. We see his struggle, and we hear his pain through the singer's voice. If only every champion got their own music video.

DG AshabelMar 2, 201516 votes

But the new lore does the direct opposite of "tying all of Runeterra together".

Hell, in the new lore, 90% of the characters don't know each other, never heard about each other and don't even have a reason to give a shit about each other's existence.

LeeDarkMar 4, 20153 votes

The whole "summoner" story was half assed BECAUSE THE NARRATIVE TEAM HALF ASSED IT. Not because it is inherently bad. There is NO FUCKING THING as an inherently bad story. There are only stories that are well written and those that aren't.

Changing the premise doesn't change the fact that Narrative is still pumping out the same shitty tripe. Amumu's video was a nice video, but nothing says that couldn't have been done before. If the League existed, THAT VIDEO COULD STILL COME OUT. Worse, they used the opportunity to write a shittier story for the mummy. Now he is just a cliche' "friendship curse" character. Yeah, the video was cool looking. That doesn't make his STORY good.

I get it now, though. Riot gets away with it because most of the players have a 3rd grade reading comprehension and appreciation. The majority of you wouldn't know good lore if it slapped you in the face with a big, floppy...

Well, you get the idea. A bad audience deserves bad creators.

BubbaDukeMar 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The whole "summoner" story was half assed BECAUSE THE NARRATIVE TEAM HALF ASSED IT. Not because it is inherently bad. There is NO FUCKING THING as an inherently bad story. There are only stories that are well written and those that aren't.

Changing the premise doesn't change the fact that Narrative is still pumping out the same shitty tripe. Amumu's video was a nice video, but nothing says that couldn't have been done before. If the League existed, THAT VIDEO COULD STILL COME OUT. Worse, they used the opportunity to write a shittier story for the mummy. Now he is just a cliche' "friendship curse" character. Yeah, the video was cool looking. That doesn't make his STORY good.

I get it now, though. Riot gets away with it because most of the players have a 3rd grade reading comprehension and appreciation. The majority of you wouldn't know good lore if it slapped you in the face with a big, floppy...

Well, you get the idea. A bad audience deserves bad creators.

Alright man. I can tell you aren't getting what I'm trying to say, and maybe that's my fault. No ones going to want to discuss anything with you if you're going to insult people like that.

Have a good one.

LeeDarkMar 4, 20151 votes

No, you don't want to discuss it because you have no response. If you want to use "WAHHH, he hurt my feelings" as an excuse to bail on your dumb argument, be my guest.

Shankspeare11Mar 4, 20152 votes

While I agree there's no such thing as an inherently bad story, there is most definitely an inherently restrictive story. The writers pushed themselves into a creative corner because of the Institute of War, limiting the directions the stories of league could go.

No, the new lore, at least so far, is not any better, but it is a lot less restricted. The lore reboot was a good idea because it opened the writers up to a lot more opportunities. They certainly haven't utilized these opportunities well, but they nevertheless exist.

LeeDarkMar 4, 20151 votes

Less restricted is not a good thing. The only reason the League was restrictive as a story element was because it demanded that the world of Runeterra be interconnected.

Look at the champions that have come out since then. Is there ANY part of their story that would have been prevented by the existence of the League? No. For every single one of them, all you have to do is come up with either a reason for them to want to join the League or an incentive for the Institute to put a stop to their activities. By delving into the lore of the Institute itself, instead of merely tacking it on to the end of every champion story, you could create a rich world in which the champions interact with each other.

A writer who cannot write a good story, regardless of the restrictions on the story in place, cannot blame the restrictions for a bad story. They are bad writers, plain and simple, and have no one but themselves to blame for it. When they can come out and admit that simple fact, there MIGHT be progress.

Señor KarthusMar 2, 20155 votes

I started playing Smite because I love mythology. But I never gave a damn about the lore in LoL. I don't even know most of the stories of my main champions. Ain't nobody got time for that.

gr8jobMar 2, 20152 votes

Same here. I'm not sure why in a game where your investment with a pre-existing character's development is so short-term, lore is somehow important. It's nice to have the extra flavor, but I can't even comprehend how it should be a main selling point. It'd be different if this were a story-based game or even an RPG, but it is not.

PhoenixOfHeavenMar 3, 20151 votes

If u want me to I read most of the lores and can tell u about your favorite champs :P (Unless one of them is Ammumu. His new lore is worth reading for yourself.)

PhoenixOfHeavenMar 3, 20151 votes

I feel like the only one who cares about it these days...

QueenAquaMar 3, 20152 votes

Don't feel lonely. I care about it too (and read every lore for every champion, even ones i dont play)

PhoenixOfHeavenMar 3, 20151 votes

Same :) some champs I get in to purely for lore. (Swain)

SlackerboyTCMar 2, 20152 votes

Man i feel bad for him.

Ramix The RedMar 3, 20152 votes

Oh. Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

byrMar 2, 20151 votes

RIP

InsaneSamuraiMar 3, 20151 votes

I just checked out smite and I was really impressed. Wasn't expecting the polish and attention to detail. Their characters have more character than any MOBA I know of, everyone could learn a thing or two from them methinks.

Also, psst riot they let you buy skins with their equivalent of IP, and their company hasn't exploded yet :P

QueenAquaMar 3, 20151 votes

what do you mean by they let you buy skins with their equivalent of ip? that sentence confused me. I'd like to understand what you meant. plz explain sensei.

InsaneSamuraiMar 3, 20152 votes

Well, while it seems a bit slower than league, you can use the free currency gained by playing to purchase skins. I think certain skins might be cash only but it seems like most of them are like this. They make money on other odd things for the cash only section, like voice packs that let you use a bunch of quick chat options in whatever champions voice you want, summoner icons, and some very simple emotes that probably nobody buys :) You can still use cash on skins and champs, so they probably make a decent bit that way still as well.

QueenAquaMar 4, 20151 votes

Ohhhh. Cool! I'd love it if league did that. It can be very costly if you want skins for your favorite champions. Thanks for clarifying. That really cleared it up for me :)

Jeddy017Mar 3, 20151 votes

Well,Smite has benefit of drawing from mythlogocial gods & goddess who have been around for many centuries.These gods have many stories of their tales that provide plenty of references to draw from. They got a lot to work with when making their gods.Clearly,they still have to put their own work into solidifying their vision of these gods.

sealustMar 3, 20151 votes

SMITE is pretty much trash tho so, like, League is a step up even if the lore has been butchered.

InsaneSamuraiMar 4, 20151 votes

While they do have a huge base of mythology to draw from, they still add loads of their own character to the characters. Generally good voice acting, neat idle and post-game animations, and a fully voiced list of just about any quick command you'd ever want to relay to your teammates which you could buy any characters voice for. Hell they even animate a neat little scene just for new skins coming out.