Still waiting on a story about new Trundle that justifies deleting an interesting character and replacing it with a generic one.
Also still waiting to figure out who won in the Freljord.
Salt Miner 49 Er5 votesFreljord only recognizes one name as its Queen and it is Stark.
Wait, wrong franchise.
Sneak Dog3 votesThere is no proper justification for removing Trundle other than that it has been done.
Riot does not care about their old lore and their old characters, they'll happily retcon everything they dislike. They don't care that some of us do care.
They're making a new world with new characters. They'll do this their way and then show us the result, assuming we'll like it. And there will be people that like it. Issue is, in five years they might just abandon their new world again, unfinished as it will be.
Riot has lost my trust, has done nothing to regain it. They've had ample time to realise they've made a mistake, admit it and to fix it, or announce they're fixing it otherwise. I've stopped caring about Riot and their lore as a result. Any investment I'd make in Riots lore, of time or emotions, would just be thrown away carelessly by Riot. Because that's exactly what they've done already. Twice.
Ralanr1 votesWell look at the Freljord war this way: It's not over.
SchaakaKon1 votesHow can you have a Freljord war with a conclusion..? Sejuana's sides win. Ashe and Lisandra are dead and to be removed as champions? This type of game cannot have a conclusion.
Why does everyone herald old Trundle as a champion of lore? When old Trundle was around I absolutly refused to spend any ip on him because the old Trundle was a bland nothing. New Trundle may not have a great new lore but at least hes interesting.
Quepha5 votesHow can you have a Freljord war with a conclusion..? Sejuana's sides win. Ashe and Lisandra are dead and to be removed as champions? This type of game cannot have a conclusion.
Why does everyone herald old Trundle as a champion of lore? When old Trundle was around I absolutly refused to spend any ip on him because the old Trundle was a bland nothing. New Trundle may not have a great new lore but at least hes interesting.
Because he had an interesting story that played on the fantasy trope of trolls being able to regenerate. He was this tragic martyr who was hated for his appearance despite the service he had done for his people, and used his curse to fight with.
Fake Trundle acted like a dick, got beat in a fight for acting like a dick, then sold his people into slavery so he could get a stick to go back and win the fight. Somehow this is supposed to be a troll with brawns and brains when it sounds like he's a short-sighted, pathetic little douchebag who ruined everything.
Leadpaintchips1 votescompletely agree with you here.
Waffletimewarp4 votesBecause he had an interesting story that played on the fantasy trope of trolls being able to regenerate. He was this tragic martyr who was hated for his appearance despite the service he had done for his people, and used his curse to fight with.
Fake Trundle acted like a dick, got beat in a fight for acting like a dick, then sold his people into slavery so he could get a stick to go back and win the fight. Somehow this is supposed to be a troll with brawns and brains when it sounds like he's a short-sighted, pathetic little douchebag who ruined everything.
Strictly speaking, old Trundle was a majorly selfish prick as well. He fully admitted that he'd act the same as the other trolls had there been another target and the only reason he saved them was to be treated better. When that didn't pan out and he discovered that taking the curse was killing his people he said fuck 'em and condemned them to death since they didn't treat him better. Keep in mind I love playing trundle but I did actually read the old lore. He's always been a selfish prick. The new lore didn't change that.
Xulsigae1 votesIt's a different kind of prick though. Old Trundle was much more different in my opinion in his reasoning for condemning his tribe.
GreenLore1 votesI doubt that a champion would be removed from the game if they are dead. Sure Gangplank was removed for a while until they showed that he wasn't dead after all,but I think that they would just remove them for a short while before letting them return(maybe with some special skin or tag to show that they are dead?I dunno)
Being able to kill champs is one of the big upsides why they disconnected the lore and gameplay in the first place.
Xulsigae1 votesI highly doubt any champion will be killed in any permanent sense of the word even now. Cuts off too much merchandising and such.
GreenLore1 votesUhm why would it do that? You can even sell merchandising for a dead character(just look at Darth vader).
Like I said,the character would most likely only be removed for a patch cycle(maybe getting some sort of special skin or something like that) and afterwards the game would still treat the character like it always did. They could still sell merchandise for the champ,they could still keep the champ in the game and in the end they could still explore the past of the champ a bit more,including him in stories that play before the death of the champ.
Xulsigae1 votesThat's different than continuing lore in a game though.
I'd feel very weird playing a character I know to be canonically dead in a game with 'continuing' lore.
GreenLore1 votesBut games do that all the time.
I mean many games with multiple characters also let you play as characters that are canoncially dead(darth vader in pretty much any star wars game,almost all the bad guys in final fantasy dissidia,etc.)
Xulsigae1 votesThey do so with universes that have multiple areas of lore release. Star Wars has books being published at multiple different timelines, not just the one we have with League.
GreenLore1 votesThose "different timelines" only exist because Disney basically retconned the old additional universe-stuff,so before that,there was only one timeline. And well one could make a point about this also being the case for lol,considering that the old lore isn't canon anymore...
Not to mention that Riot themselves said once that champion death is now something that can happen. All that fuss about GP being dead wasn't just for show,it was meant to tell us,that champion death is a real possibility,even if gangplank survived(which really wasn't that surprising considering that we barely knew him)
Xulsigae1 votesThere was only one timeline. What I meant was different stories being told at different times. PreRepublic, Yuuzhan Vong invasion, Rebellion etc..
It can happen, but again I'd be very surprised if they did, and because of the medium, it would feel very odd (to me) to play a canonically dead character. It wouldn't make any sense for champions to interact with them for instance.
GreenLore1 votesYeah,but LoL isn't limited to a linear story either. they always tell stories that don't necessarily happen in the same order.
For example Xeraths current main lore plays before the fall of shurima,despite it being released after the shurima event.
Xulsigae1 votesThose stories seem to be more setting up for the main storyline set 'now.' The main one being the one that started with the Bilgewater crisis.
GreenLore1 votesI really doubt they will do a "main"-story-kind of thing. there are so many places,there is pretty much no reason why all the stories would need to be shown in chonological order.
Xulsigae1 votesThat's how it seems they are going so far with their set up. The Bilgewater and Harrowing events and such.
GreenLore1 votesBilgewater was just one event that basically had an aftermath,but thats about it. The shurima event for example could have happened before or after the bilgewater event(or in between burning tides and the harrowing). It wouldn't make a difference
Xulsigae1 votesJust seems to be how it's going so far and how lore is being promoted.
Even aside from that, having a character die is still unlikely as it cuts off more that can be done with them barring resurrection. It's similar to Comic book characters.. No one dies or stays dead.
And to me personally, having a character canonically die but have it not affect the gameplay, or for the character to still be taunted by new characters would further enforce the feeling of League being a fun and great game with good characters, but with this weird lore that doesn't stand out or have anything to do with the game. It still seems odd to me for a video game to have characters and gameplay having nothing to do with lore.
Xulsigae3 votesNot every war has to end with the utter destruction of the other side. Sejuani could win and be the dominant power in Freljord while Ashe and Lissandra make do with reduced territory and prestige.
SchaakaKon1 votesBut then how many of these non-decisive endings can LoL have before people get tired if it?
Eh, maybe LoL needs alternate or extended non-canon but canon story lines like novels that will sate peoples desires for some sort of ending
Xulsigae1 votesThen have a decisive ending, and then keeping telling more stories. That's the idea of story arcs. There are more stories being told of Harry Potter (official ones, not just fan fiction) even though the book series had a decisive ending.
SchaakaKon1 votesA book is a much different medium than a moba. If Harry dies, the series can continue as is with no problems.
Lets say that Ashe dies, LoL cannot continue like that. "Why can i play Ashe? Isnt she dead?" Or "Im one of the four people who plays Ashe, why was she removed??"
Asking for 'endings' in League just does not make any sense. Here are the three options for the Freljord war, Khazix/Rengar, Lucian/Thresh: you can have non-decisive ends (like Tf/Graves), one murders the other or they stay as they are un-concluded-ified?
If all four stories (including Tf/Graves) all end up with the parties shaking hands, understanding their differences then parting ways, how incredibly lame would that be?
Or they murder each other and we have champions in game specifically removed from lore, how silly is that?
Or understand League as a moba can only tell stories from past to present with no endings
Xulsigae2 votesEndings are fine. They don't have to be 'and then they lived happily ever after' endings. Story arcs have endings that don't need to close out an entire character or universe. We've had such stories before and they worked in the lore. Even the current lore has had story arcs that end. The Harrowing was a story arc with an ending.
Ebonmaw Dragon1 votesThere is no war on the Freljord... yet.
Only Sejuani is trying to provoke a war.
DwarvenGiant1 votesI legitimately wondered recently if another Trundle retcon could be a thing- Maybe it doesn't even have to be a retcon, just something to connect his old lore with the current one.
GreenLore1 votesOverall it is more about having future possibilities for him. New trundle currently serves under Lissandra,but he plans on backstabbing her,this creates already the basis for a future lore update,where he finally tries that,which can lead to interesting results depending on how successful he is. Also his past is still unexplored,so there is a lot of room to show why he became like that.
Quepha4 votesOverall it is more about having future possibilities for him. New trundle currently serves under Lissandra,but he plans on backstabbing her,this creates already the basis for a future lore update,where he finally tries that,which can lead to interesting results depending on how successful he is. Also his past is still unexplored,so there is a lot of room to show why he became like that.
Release date: December 2010 Rework date: April 2013 2 years 4 months doing nothing with his story
Rework date: April 2013 Today: December 2015 2 years 8 months doing nothing with his story
They spent more time doing nothing with fake Trundle's story than they spent time doing nothing with Trundle's story.
GreenLore2 votesThey simply have more important stuff to do. I mean tons of lores still need retcons/updates and they want to establish the different factions a bit more. Real plot advancement would most likely only become the focus once they are finished with those points.
And since the freljord was already established with the freljord event,I'd say it is likely that champs like trundle won't be touched for a quite a while.
lightdragoon881 votesBut again..old Trundle had no story afterwards. He had no reason to fight.
He found out that he can save his people by giving the curse back, but decides to let them die cause they were jerks to him and stay in the League of Legend.
Now that the League of Legend is no more: What would the story of old Trundle be now?
Xulsigae5 votesThe only reason old Trundle didn't have more story was that the writers didn't write more of it. His story was done in the same way Goku's story was done after beating Frieza, that is to say, it could have been done IF the story writers wanted it to be. Creativity with an established character is far more impressive than simply retconing a character when it's convenient.
Ralanr1 votesSometimes a story is better left finished. Dragon ball was supposed to end after Freeza, but it became too popular.
Xulsigae1 votesAnd Sherlock Holmes was supposed to finish with being killed by his nemesis, but the fans loved him so much Doyle brought him back. And I'm very glad he did. That a writer wants to finish something doesn't necessarily mean it should be finished or that there are no more quality stories to tell. Trundle's story had much more potential, and it was only the writers that ended his story as a plague troll. We cannot blame old Trundle for the writers.
Sneak Dog2 votesIt'd be a story of a tribeless troll, a wanderer (plenty of those in the new lore anyway). A lost cynical person looking for a new place to belong.
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6nvufY9G,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-12-24T14:50:14.057+0000)
It'd be a story of a tribeless troll, a wanderer (plenty of those in the new lore anyway). A lost cynical person looking for a new place to belong.
Saying old Trundle's story was over is like saying nothing happened in Princess Mononoke after he left his village.
ADepressedLeona1 votesAnd then Udyr joining him.. ugh
Raoul1 votesRIOT only cares about Lore as long as it helps them to sell skins or boost champion sales. As soon as that is over, they dont even remember they have lore. They used to, but that was long ago...
