[CCC] September Results!!!

Sir ArmaMalum··12 votes·5,720 views

It's the moment that we've all been waiting for....... the winners of the September Champion Concept Contest!

For those of you who do not know what this is, I host a monthly Champion Concept Contest made of a panel of volunteer judges from the community that takes entries in the first week of every month. These guys and gals have been patiently waiting for two weeks after this very announcement!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cqSm8ejGLhw/TzO2coJSWEI/AAAAAAAAAtw/m1eMEaN88ec/s200/john-stewart-clapping.gif

Contain your excitement for a little longer though, because you really need to give a pat on the back to this month's Judges!

(With an extra thanks to Zanryu for going above and beyond and helping me out with a few things behind the curtain.)

These guys have stuck with it and have contributed a good amount of time and effort to help you guys out, so toss them a thanks whenever you can!


Without further ado, drumroll please!

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/loupop13/Emoticons%202/drum-roll-please-2.gif~original

The Top Concept for the September Champion Concept Contest is:

#Rio, The Flying Dagger by Stephenizgod!

Zed's first pupil and devoted disciple, this ninja of the shadows will do anything for her master. Her kit is tied off neatly with ribbon (in more ways than one) and interacts with itself as much as it interacts with the throats of the poor champions she's set her attention towards. Rio doesn't hesitate to take on the Triumvirate, all while staring them down with a deadly resolve.

At a score of (78/100), Congratulations!

#Runner ups

|Place|-----------------------------Concept----------------------------------|------------Author-------------|---------Score-------- |- |2 | Shrike, The Storm Chaser | Flintfall |(76.8/100)| |3 | Zeph, The Sky Caller | dialMARK4Acti0n |(73.6/100) |4 | Melanthe, The Maiden of the Marshes | BigBenClockTower | (73.4/100) |5 | Khishma, The Warrior of the Sands | Avatu q Pariu |(72.2/100)

#Score Sheet

Didn't see your entry? Try finding it here to see your concept's score breakdown. Feel free as well to ask for specific feedback if you would like, I or another judge will try to get to you with some comments. (But keep in mind we may not get to you immediately, be patient!). I highly encourage you to use these scores to identify where you can improve and where you're already doing well. Keep in mind even the top concepts didn't have perfect scores! Keep at it fellas!

#Next Month!

I'm already setting up for next month's contest, so keep in mind I will only be taking new concepts posted in the first week of October. If you want to enter one of your concepts in next month's contest, save it for a little longer!

If you're at all interested in judging for next month's contest e-mail me at "[email protected]" with your IGN + the e-mail you would like me to use to contact you with and I'll provide info and requirements. I'm trying to get as many judges as I can so feel free to try it out! (Keep in mind you cannot judge and enter into the same contest)

And tell me what I can do better! Either here or, if preferred, privately through e-mail (same as mentioned above). Naturally I'm not perfect, so pointing out areas where I can improve the contest will always help out!

68 Comments

Tamat10 votes

I love that you're doing this Sir ArmaMalum! Keep up the awesome content, all! We love reading it. :)

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

So, just curious; we know there are rioters reading this...does riot do anything with it? Perhaps be inspired by a great piece of lore, or love an ability / interaction that was created, and consider using it?

Flintfall2 votes

Maybe, but I'm erring on probably not. While there are good ideas brewing here, Riot has some insane creative talent on their champion team, and I doubt they would have many opportunities to take something from the forums and apply it to a current project.

But one can dream right?: :P

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Well, mostly im thinking distant future; if this project of ArmaMalum's has anything to show us, its that there is a TON of design space left. So I am left wondering as to the level f interest Riot has with this section of the community.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

The only things I can say confidently are:

A) Some Rioters look at these concepts as simply fellow members of the community, they're interesting and fun reads after all!

B) It's difficult if not impossible to directly credit an individual for an idea or inspiration for an idea to a single concept. And so even if a Rioter said "hey, why don't we do it like X community concept?" or "Hey, X is a really good idea, I want to get that in-game!" it's not a great idea for them to publicly acknowledge the origin. You'll get people saying "Hey I came up with that idea first!" or something along those lines. So even if the majority of Champ design ideas originate from concepts like these, we probably won't ever be able to confirm for certain.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Hadn't thought about that actually, very good point!

Stephenizgod8 votes

Oh my, im actually really shocked! There were so many concepts i thought were better lol. Thank you though im glad you guys liked Rio :D

DMC750011 votes

GGWP, Stephen, You deserve it!!!!!!!!!!

Stephenizgod1 votes

:D thanks although i still think there were a lot of great concepts that i thought would have scored higher.

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

Good job man! You work hard on your concepts. I've been reading through some of 'em in my spare time and you do good for the concept community!!! Keep it up ;)

Stephenizgod1 votes

Haha thanks man, i have tons of concepts still in progress im just itching to post its good to know people enjoy them :)

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

Then I guess we'll meet in October then...

Friendly rival look

Stephenizgod1 votes

Maybe or i might be a judge :) as fun as it is to write concepts i also love to read them, i think being a judge could be fun. Havent decided yet though

Flintfall1 votes

There were so many concepts i thought were better lol.

Apparently not, congratulations!

Stephenizgod1 votes

thanks bud :D

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Really was a great champ man, good job!

Stephenizgod1 votes

Thanks :)

Flintfall5 votes

Really glad stephen won, he deserves every point!

That said, I got a whoppping 23.2 points shaved off, so I'd like to hear some feedback (if you have any)!


Shrike's playlist has been updated to include a bit more EDM (which is more of her style).

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWp4WLvxHal8P_pZYyg3ik4wMgYhQ9PXQ

Also, thanks to Sir ArmaMalum for the link, check out Igwell (who I referenced in the lore)!

Igwell, the Bioengineer

Once again congrats to stephen, and a big thanks to all who entered the contest!

ModEchoing3 votes

Incredibly, incredibly disappointed with my score. Can I get some actual feedback there? I'm really not seeing why my kit got such abysmal numbers. Lore, fine - I phoned that one in - but I put a good chunk of work into the kit to make it useful and viable without being overwhelming. What happened there?

Also, apparently someone missed the point of doom bots - they were never meant to be overwhelming. All of the doom bots had a common pattern - they were all skillshot based and/or with clearly-defined areas of control, so you could still avoid them and do just fine. Apparently, trying to follow that pattern gets me a 1 from a judge. Again, what happened there? Some direct feedback as to why these scores are granted would be greatly appreciated.

Zanryu1 votes

The core problem everyone had with your concept was the Q. Every attempt to copy an ability from the enemy is overpowered by the fact itself. Not only because your can have access to 5 additional abilities but you have also to know which ability you gain from each single champion. And these knowledge-based abilities is nothing you should ever do in any concept. New players are totally overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge they need to even use this ability. Additionally there are Q abilities that doesn't work and thus render this ability completely useless. For example: Azir's Conquering Sands, Jinx' Switcheroo! or Orianna's Command: Attack.

The next problem is the fact that your W deals damage to both enemies and allies. Completely unacceptable because of trolls. No other reasons.

This is some copy paste from a complete review I made regarding Doom Bots Extra Points:

Funnily enough only one entrant got this section right. First of all Doom Bots have 3 different difficulties: 1, 2 and 5. The only difference between 1 and 2 is the fact that the bots gain the passive Doom Mutations. However there is a huge difference between 2 and 5. Aside the fact that the bots now have two Doom Mutations their skills are also alternated. Please remember for example that Ezreals Ultimate were 4 shards in 1 and 2 but 8 on level 5. The same goes for all other champions.

Hope this could lighten you up a bit.

Zanryu

ModEchoing1 votes

I think you and everyone else exaggerated the Q, and that really ticks me off as that was the main thrust of the champion - how to make a Spell Steal-esque ability work on a champion. It's not like abilities are random and it's not like you have no idea what you're getting - anyone can watch their allies or enemies throw out a spell and figure out if they copy that, they can get it too. Burden of knowledge? People don't even know how to click Thresh's lantern, I'm not seeing how this is excessive burden of knowledge in comparison, especially since after the first use it should be pretty obvious how to use it. A few Q abilities not working doesn't make the ability completely useless given you have a bunch of other champions to copy.

The W didn't deal damage to allies, though. I specifically stated it didn't hurt allies by indicating both in the passive and the W that enemies take damage - why would I do something as stupid as enable teamkilling?

The Doom Bot thing, then, is incredibly low as the wiki was not terribly detailed on that particular - I had to read comments to find that out since all I did was play on 5 and didn't notice any changes from 2 to 5.

Not terribly lightened up, but thank you anyways.

EDIT: "The core problem everyone had"

How did you know everyone had that problem?

Flintfall1 votes

Back when I judged we often discussed quirks or characteristics of concepts, so he prob made remarks about your champ.

Though I would't worry, the highest score he gave a kit was 12/25. He's the Simon Cowl of the judge panel, he has very high standards.

ModEchoing1 votes

That seems like a horrible idea since it introduces biases.

Flintfall1 votes

Bias is inevitable because they can see each others scores, see the upvotes, read the discussion ect.

ModEchoing1 votes

Wasn't this way back when it was just the Monthly Champion Concept Contest.

That really makes me mad because it's clear someone didn't read the concept all the way through, and now I'm concerned that influenced my score unfairly. I can accept not winning with the champion, I can't accept getting a horrible score on the kit when there's clear evidence that at least one person who may or may not have been influential on others overlooked an important component of my champion's kit.

Flintfall1 votes

Yeah, it's annoying. I included an FAQ in my post that Zanryu skipped (no doubt would have increased my score just even a little if he had), but that might also be my fault partially due to all the special cases I had to put in.

Really I'd just look forward, dwelling of past mistakes (yours or others) accomplishes nothing, really there's no way but forward for us :)

ModEchoing1 votes

It's kinda a big deal if some people are going to be judging again. When it's explicitly stated no less than three times in the thread that there's no teamkilling and points are docked for that, I can't help but be incredibly wary about some people. I don't need to win, but I'd like to get a good score.

Zanryu1 votes

Now I've noticed this... and there is something else I want to point out.

First, since you already mentioned it, yes, it was me who has fairly high standards regarding kits and abilities. And actually I wanted to adjust my points in a second iteration, but I wasn't allowed to due to internal conflicts.

Secondly, when there are mechanics and crucial information in a FAQ and not in the tooltip/ability description then there are in the wrong place. The same goes for changes and different stuff. The tooltip should be as dense as possible and should provide as much information as possible.

Flintfall1 votes

Oh whoops, my bad (shouldn't have gone off assuming things) >_<

I'm against dense tooltips because I like keeping it brief for the casual onlookers, then provide all the nitty gritty in the FAQ for those that are genuinely interested in what goes under the hood.

However, like you said I'm leaving out some crucial aspects to the ability and that is something I (hope) to fix in the future.

Zanryu1 votes

how to make a Spell Steal-esque ability work on a champion

That will never work in League of Legends.

People don't even know how to click Thresh's lantern, I'm not seeing how this is excessive burden of knowledge in comparison,

So you say not knowing one skill of an ally is more difficult than knowing the correct Q ability of each of the 121 champions? Sorry but this is preposterous. Do me a favor and recount all abilities of all champions in the correct order in your mind. If you can do that you probably played LoL enough. But to assume a new player can pull that stunt off is ridiculous. Not to mention that the greater part of LoL consists of players who play LoL a few games a week.

How did you know everyone had that problem?

We communicated.

ModEchoing1 votes

There were a bunch of things people thought wouldn't work in League of Legends, and now we have Azir's minions, Yasuo's wind wall, Gnar's transformation, Soraka's new dedicated healing kit, and more. That's a horrible argument.

You again exaggerate with the unspoken assumption that the first time you play a champion requires perfect play. That's ridiculous. You play a champion, get used to quirks, and play better the next time. There's the added bonus that the more champions you play and the more champions you fight, the more you'll get to know the Q in question. You're coming into this with the completely absurd expectation that a champion should be perfect to use for anyone right off the bat, and God forbid we add anything that might require some skill. There's still a functional kit besides the Q - you're still able to set up allies for kills and harass enemies in the lane - so you can do perfectly fine while learning the Q one step at a time.

See below for why I don't think communicating is good.

dialMARK4acti0n1 votes

Sorry man. I have to agree with Flint and Zanryu on this one. Copying another champion's Q ability may work in a game like Smash Bros., where you have Kirby.

One of Kirby's Special abilities (the Neutral Special) has the ability to steal the sucked in target's Neutral Special.

Link: Link

The most recent iteration of Smash has 50 different characters besides Kirby. Which isn't even half of Leagues whopping 121. The original though only had 12! That is to say, when the move was implemented it was only meant to copy 11 characters.

Smash Bros. is a fighter game that doesn't require any kind of input or resource to do Specials, so in this case someone who doesn't know ANY of the others' characters Neutral Specials (although I seriously doubt no one knows FALCON PUNCH!!! at this point), it would be way easier to press "B" a couple of times to get an idea of what the ability does. Also, when Kirby copies another character's Neutral, he also gains a hat to represent whose ability he has.

Now, League is a different case, especially Nu'Lis, because, if I understood his concept well enough, he was a swarm. Not only would it be hard for you to give a visual queue on what ability he had gained access too (although perfectly possible), that doesn't mean you OR THE OPPONENT knew what the ability exactly does. For example, I play League for 2 YEARS, but I still have no idea what Poppy's Q does. (It's an AA modifier right? Anyway...). Even if you learn and immediately remember a champion's Q just by looking at him, that doesn't mean the other 9 players in a game know! Even if they take a Poppy Q to the face 1,000 times they don't know what it does FOR SURE!! (e.g. me xD).

Another thing to take into consideration is that a Smash Bros. game is usually 2 to 5 minutes. A League game is 30 to 45. Imagine having a game where you play Nu'Lis and lane against a Swain and you have NO IDEA of what it does. Coincidentally, neither does one of your teammates. You have to wait 45 minutes without knowing how to use YOUR OWN ABILITY (which you copied) before going to play a game as Swain and read the ability's description.

In Smash Bros. you can just learn in a match (considering it's a pretty simple game) and even if you don't you can still end the game, figure out how to use DK's punch in another game, playing as DK, so you're ready next time you face one.

This is are a few reasons that haven't been mentioned already that an ability like this would NEVER WORK in League. The Azir Q, or Orianna Q, doesn't necessarily impede Nu'Lis Q, because there are workarounds (e.g. Soldiers made of swarm show up and disappear at end of Q; Ball of swarm shows up then disappears also).

Countering your argument from before, Azir soldiers and Yasuo's wall DO WORK in League (they ARE in the game) and before Yasuo and Azir came out I always wondered why there wasn't a champion with skills like those in League. Heck! When I first did a concept in my notebook I made a champion with Yasuo's W, before he came out!). I though about Nu'Lis' Q too, FOR SURE!! But, then I though... Naaaah! Largely to some of the reasons already pointed out.

If you want a copy ability, LeBlanc exists. Is that what you envisioned a copy ability to be?? My guess is no. But it's the closest I believe we can EVER get. Because unlike Nu'Lis, you have FULL CONTROL on what abilities you copy, and knowledge of how they work. And unlike Kirby, Nu'Lis is being designed for a way more complex game.

Sry for the wall o' text ;) And for being direct. But, we all want you to make better champions in the future and help you to understand what a champion's design philosophy should be.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

As Zanryu said, any "copy ability" will never resonate well in a MOBA. Specifically because the fine balance that's struck in a game like this doesn't allow for a copy ability. These abilities and the mechanics therein are meant to stay on said champion, and will either produce severe abuse cases (Morg Q, Sej Q, Malz Q), literally not work (Azir Q, Nasus Q, Zanryu beat me to that as well), or be generally lackluster because the rest of the kit it was meant for can't follow up (Katarina Q, Akali Q). Copying an ally's ability to give them a double-use instance is indeed a cool idea! But there are simply a lot of cases that this ability would create a bad atmosphere via abuse cases or make me regret having that ability through lackluster Q's being available. Yes, player choice/knowledge does come into play but it's a very bad situation when one of your abilities is effectively or literally useless going against certain champions. So I docked some points on kit for that. I did like the passive interaction, I'm a sucker for synergy.

However, the kit felt very weak overall due to the emphasis on a lot of low-impact effects (i.e. stat shred from ult). I'm not saying that ult has to be absolutely ridiculous, but the heavy theme of an ult-grade debuff isn't a satisfying ult. Can it turn teamfights? sure. Can it carry a team? Absolutely. But one fast QSS and the ult's effect (not including the damage of course) is gone. And I will admit at a point why not just make the ult a stun instead of a stat cripple? The reason abilities that attack someone's spreadsheet (Tryn W, Urgot Passive and I think maybe 1 or 2 others) aren't commonly seen in the current game is that cc and other effects produce the same essential result but being much more visible to both the attacker and the victim. As an example, if you never played Trynd yourself would you ever have known his W takes off base AD? By that same extension, When Nu'Lis ults the damage and slow or noticeable, but the stat shred everywhere else wouldn't be. Why not just stun the target? Much more noticeable, and while his/her defenses won't be lowered they can't retaliate and is an easy target.

As far as the lore went I could give you a long-winded precise explanation about reader interpretation, deliberate lack of information and all that but long story short, I learned more about Nu'lis as a character from her quote than from her lore. Don't get me wrong, the events that surround her are important as well, but I didn't get anything about her herself. Is she parading around in a sense of righteousness (giving a gift?) or is she hungrily devouring without remorse? Is she an intelligent being or just a smart beast? Does she have a strategy for her plot or will she just continue to grow unabated? I want to know more about her and what she thinks than about what happened around her, if that makes sense.

As far as the doom bots go, no one really scored well there except for a few, and I'll be honest that's largely on me because I did not explicitly explain how I saw it, and I am sorry for that. What I personally was looking for was clever use of the champion's mechanics to truly create a nearly impossible obstacle (but specifically not impossible of course). A great example being Doom Fiddlesticks. His fracture (I'm sure you know but in case anyone else reading this didn't) made shades pop up and crowstorm from anywhere you didn't have vision. They were weak, but I'll be damned if they didn't make me jump everytime. Things like that is what I looked for in a kit, so I actually scored you well there because the "contagion" effect could be pretty hilariously overpowered in ceratin situations. A team would actually have to quarantine a lane for a certain amount of time before they're able to go back! And the if it got into a jungle mob you'd have to keep an eye out for carriers.

Mindworm Jim2 votes

Congratulations to our winners, especially Stephen. You all put in a lot of work so relax and enjoy the prestige, you earned it! Also a big thank you to our judges (and Arma of course for organizing the whole thing). Given that each entry is probably several pages long going over all of them is like reading and analyzing a full novel!

@Arma : The score sheet says I need you to grant me permission to view it (if this is intentional, please ignore this message).

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Ok there we go, Virginia Tech works directly with Gmail accounts, so anytime I mess with drive it keeps resetting back to "only people with a Virginia tech e-mail". Should be fixed now though!

Mindworm Jim1 votes

Thanks again for setting this all up Arma.

Now that I've had a chance to check out scores, I'm pretty satisfied with I turned out. Primary weak areas were Kit and Extras. A poor mark as it be against me, I simply don't like doing extras for champions, so I've resigned myself to low points there. I'm not too surprised with Kit, I didn't actually like how it turned out as much as I thought I would. I had some crazy ideas, but with life events I didn't have the time to go back and really review it.

This does raise the question though (for both judges and participants). How do people feel about really weird, ambitious kits? They're often the most exciting, but they're also really easy to mess up as well.

Zanryu4 votes

There are four basic rules that every champion kit should inherit.

  1. Innates should provide gameplay. This is mostly overlooked by almost everyone and yet the most important aspect or a champion. First of all we shouldn't forget that the innate is an innate and not a passive. An innate is something that should bring up the identity of the champion. For example: Azir, Lucian and Draven (mainly his Q) have grade A+ innates.

  2. The ability kit should provide synergy. There is a huge difference between three single basic abilities and a kit. By synergy kits I mainly mean kit with abilities that not only should provide a broad usuability but also should interact with each other. Most champions in LoL currently have a two-ability synergy like Alistar, Akali, Jayce, etc.

  3. An ability kit should enhance the champions aspects. Many champions have an ability kit that could easily be transfered to other champions if we would change the name and animations of said abilities. Gangplank's kit is one of those offenders. You could change Parrrley to a shooting star, Remove Scurvey's orange to a celestial heal animation, Raise Moral to a shiny aura and Cannon Barrage to a meteor shower and apply to whole kit to Soraka or any other celestial based character. Nothing of Gangplank's kit aside the animations say: "I'm a Pirate, arrrr!"

  4. Abilities are easy to overload This is something most kits in this contest have suffered from. When I, as a player, need more than 15 seconds to understand an ability it is way too overloaded. On the other hand abilities should at least have two parameter (without innates). The most commonly parameter are: Damage, AoE, Debuff and Buff. If an ability exceeds five parameter it is highly possibly overloaded. One Rioter once said if I recall it correctly: For Example, when an ability debuffs 8 different stats and to balance that ability out each single parameter cannot be that high to have an actual impact to the affected.

Hope that cleans a little bit up on some thoughts of the judges.

Zanryu

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

^this.

I also want to seriously emphasize the synergy aspect. For me, what separates the good concepts from the great is flow. A lot of people can think of an ability and just tack it onto a champion, but it takes real thought to have abilities tie into each other in clever ways.

Take Rio as a good example, she got a lot of points on kit from me because she had a AS mechanic behind her E that complemented by her passive. Not only did her daggers instigate a dash mechanic, but the auto attack emphasis on her passive and E meant that she couldn't just faceroll and win, she had to delay herself to mark a target and follow up to get the most out of her kit. In general there are are play making capabilities with her kit that require the player to play her right. A lot of early conceptors will simply tack on abilities that fit thematically and let them loose, and in the hypothetical situation that I'm playing them there's no reason for me to think about how I use their kit because all the abilities stand on their own and are incredibly disjointed.

Mindworm Jim1 votes

This is ... Extremely helpful. Thank you! Looking forward to next month's contest.

BigBenClockTower1 votes

Sorry for another comment, but I cannot seem to access the score sheet. I assume this was not intended, but just making sure. I'd like to know what Melanthe's scores were in all areas, so I can improve upon my next concept. Thanks!

-BigBenClockTower

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Try refreshing real quick and tell me if it's still not working. If it isn't try this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qq-Uc6N1CmaTqc0dOiiTk3UJkUzbxnBnD1_vRfjiB_4/edit?usp=sharing

Hope that fixes it!

BigBenClockTower1 votes

It did, thanks. But seriously, wow. It amazes me how many other Champions I beat out (some of those scores man). If I scored better on kit, I would've won. Nonetheless, I think I have a winning idea for next month. Can't wait.

Flintfall1 votes

If I scored better on kit, I would've won.

Story of all 4 runner ups :P

BigBenClockTower1 votes

I dunno. Some of the scores of all the others were decidedly mixed between high and low scores. Melanthe was consistently high in all areas EXCLUDING the kit. So retaining the high scores everywhere else, a high kit score would've catapulted me up another 15 or so points. A score of 90 would've essentially all but guaranteed me winner.

But, that's getting a bit math-y if I say so myself. Just observations from looking through the final scores. I was afraid Melanthe was actually overpowering in her kit, but I guess not. Now, back to balancing my next contest concept...

Dragon Fang Shot1 votes

If only I had the time to put more effort into my concept it might have scored better. At least I know where my weak points are for the next time I try this.

tau431 votes

Guess I can't win them all. Just wait till October.

Bourmegar1 votes

Hi there.

I have one question to ask which is: Are heavy Reworks of older Concepts also accepted?

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

If you I can still call it a rework, no. A large priority for this contest is to generate new community content, both to challenge experienced conceptions and give new conceptions a bit of a better chance (not having to compete with heavily iterated concepts that have simple had more time.).

Bourmegar1 votes

A ok good to know that :) I still have a new concept on the drawing board so i will register that one as a contender once it is ready.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Cool looking forward to it! ^_^

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