How to: Properly Frame an Argument

Sir ArmaMalum·2/25/2015, 9:44:38 PM·30 votes·5,026 views

tl;dr This is how you frame a proper argument, skim if you’d like. It’s not hard or at all required in any way. Improperly framing an argument doesn’t mean you’re wrong, it just means you’ve phrased your points badly and stifled communication.

Honestly though if you read anything, read the fallacy section guys. It’s not long and you may learn something, and honestly I'm getting flat out tired of seeing them.

  1. Mythbusting
  2. How to frame, in 3 easy steps!
  3. Fallacies
  4. Arguments and the Internet

#1. Mythbusting

http://cdn.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Mythbusting.jpg

  • Myth: Framing a proper argument is hard.

False. What it does require is a small amount of knowledge (like, you know, this post) and a smidgen of thought before posting. A forum isn’t a chatroom, you have time to post or reply. Literally it’s just wording a point you have in a way that people can actually talk about it.

  • Myth: No one is going to reply intelligently, so I shouldn’t try to properly frame an argument.

Quickly raise your hand, and sharply smack that thought out of your head. A proper argument works for you whether there are intelligent responses or no. Why? Because if you’ve done it properly you’ve left obvious places for people to argue (more on that later) and if you have a good point then you’re easily prepared for it. Properly framing an argument actually makes replying to comments easier rather than harder!

  • Myth: The less people arguing against me, the stronger my point.

No, no, no, no, and NO. Discussion strengthens an argument by allowing you to further explain specifics, so lacking discussion actually hurts the strength of your argument. If you have everyone coming in and rallying around your point with no discussion, congrats, there's no argument! There's no question!

  • Myth: “Proper” argument OP’s are stupidly long.

Nope. In fact a lot of an argument is held back for the comments section (The discussion portion). So proper arguments are actually usually shorter than most assume.

  • Myth: An “improper” argument is wrong.

NO. We’re all prone to fallacies and improper framing everyday. Proper framing of an argument is a well-thought out way to explain your point of view with the intent of discussion and deliberation, no sane person talks like that. Just because an argument isn’t properly framed doesn’t mean it’s wrong, it just means it could have been worded better.

  • Myth: I don’t have to worry about that anymore once I hit the comments section.

Flat out false. In fact, the comment section is even more important than the OP in my honest opinion. Because that’s where you’re convincing everyone that you’re right. Anyone who is convinced of your argument by the time they’re finished with your OP then they probably already agreed with you from the get-go. The people who don’t agree with you are the ones who will more than likely respond and those are the people you need to convince.

#2. How to frame, in 3 easy steps!

http://images.clipartpanda.com/frame-clipart-frame-h.gif

1. Main Statement

What is it you’re trying to say? If you had to summarize and boil down your post into one sentence, what would it be? It’s very possible you have several statements to make, that’s not uncommon. Now that you’ve realized that though, treating them as separate arguments makes it easier for us, the readers, to digest. A lot of the time this ends up as your post title.

e.g. “X” champion is overpowered

2. Facts/Reasoning

State your reasons simply and honestly. Hell, list them for all I care, as long as they’re there. And I’m not talking “because of the obvious” or “because you know why”.

DO NOT IMPLY, STATE THEM. ######State; (verb): convey in appropriate and straightforward terms.

e.g. “X” is OP because:

  • his dash is too long
  • his damage scales to hard for the current meta
  • his ultimate has too low of a cooldown
  • over the last month his win/ratio has dwarfed others

The reason you must make these obvious is because these are your focus points, the points that your argument revolves around. Stating them plainly makes it easier for people to attack them, and that’s good! If your points are valid it’s easier to defend them, if they’re not it’s easier for you to refine your points to make a stronger, more valid overall statement. Do not shy away from discussion! Or else you may be accused of not properly communicating your point and have your opinion dismissed. (sound familiar?)

3. /discuss

Your argument doesn't stop at your post, explaining yourself also means talking directly to people who either a) do no understand your point or b) disagree. The reason is because deliberation between the people who disagree is where stronger points are made. Talking about the specific points of an argument and why they are or are not true and why is where all the juicy topics come up and where revaluations are made. It's simple, really. The more you boil an argument down the easier it is to find the issues and therefore the solutions. As an engineering student let me tell you how much time I put into identifying problems versus actually solving them: 90:10. Finding an asnwer is easy, asking the right question is freaking hard.

#3. Common Fallacies

https://alexweinsteinwork.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/logical-fallacy.jpg

What is a fallacy?

A fallacy is, effectively, flawed logic. They’re points of an argument or counter-argument that are not relevant or lead to false conclusion, but are still commonly used to gain ground.

--------------------------------

  1. Straw Man (Also known as “Aunt Sally” in the UK) --------------------------------

One of the two most common fallacies I see on the Boards, Leddit and the internet in general. A Straw Man argument is also seen in politics and the media almost everyday. It’s the practice of misrepresenting and redirecting an argument, usually by rallying support from people not privy to the privy to the original argument.

e.g. Selective quoting, exaggeration.

Riot Ezreal said: “I play video games as my full time job...how sweet is that?” He’s a lazy bum who doesn’t do anything, like the entire balance team! (When, in fact, this was in response to what his favorite part of his job was, source )

-------------------------------- 2. Equivocation --------------------------------

e.g. Zed is overpowered. Zed is an AD assassin. Therefore, all AD assassins are OP.

Put that way, sounds like pretty shaky logic right? And yet, how many posts do you see like this on the Boards? Sure it’s worded differently, but the faulty logic is still there. Here’s another example though, just in case:

e.g. Riot Sweet is responding only to community creation posts. Riot Sweet is part of Riot. Riot only cares about community creation posts.

This example can also be considered a hasty generalization, which is another (albeit self-explanatory) fallacy.

-------------------------------- 3. Ad hominem --------------------------------

e.g. You’re bronze, therefore your point doesn’t matter.

Attacking someone’s argument by attacking the person not the argumental points.

Seriously, this shouldn’t need explaining. If their point is bad then explain why their point is bad! If you can’t, then you don’t have any ground to stand on and you’re admitting they’re right!

-------------------------------- 4. Appealing to Tradition --------------------------------

e.g. It worked before!

Simply put, arguing that if it had worked in the past, it would work again now. Like all fallacies this doesn’t mean your point is wrong, it could very well work now, but not just because it also worked in the past. You need another point of reasoning to argue that effectively.

#4. Arguments and the Internet

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/02/iStock_000001186054XLarge-H.jpeg

So why should you properly frame an argument on the internet? It’s full of trolls and children, they’re not going to appreciate the fact it’s properly framed…..

Short answer: Because you’ve read to the bottom of this post, so you care at least somewhat about properly discussing an issue. So if you do care, you should show it by actually putting in some effort instead of the usual vitrol.

Long answer: Because if we don’t shape up now then the quality of posts will continue to degrade as more and more people flood in without any form of precedent or role models. As such, we’ll continue to push Reds away and have our communication rot into petty squabbling and trolling. While this will always be the case to a point (because people will be people, myself included) we’ll at least create some form of port in the storm and hopefully keep it up long enough to re-establish a link between Riot and the playerbase. Communication is a two-way street guys and gals. If we don’t put in the effort how can we expect anyone else to? You be the better person, don’t wait for someone else to do it for you.

Will everything be hunky dorey and perfect if you frame a proper argument? Hell no, don’t be naive. But it is a step in the right direction, as well as a powerful tool to both call out faulty logic as well as reinforce higher-quality posting. We have a chance here with the Boards guys, and we’re slipping. Stop fighting, cooperate and fucking THINK for half a second. I’m asking for a lot, I know.

Of course those who have read this far more than likely already do think about their posts, and for that I thank you. Hopefully you learned something along the way and you can help out a bit with the League forum-base. Yes, I probably have an overly positive outlook, but hey, at least I’m trying something instead of sitting back and yelling at the injustice of it all.

--Looks judgingly at the Board’s front page--

26 Comments

MrBuffington2/25/2015, 11:43:47 PM9 votes

misread the title as "how to properly flame an argument"

was like "oh no not you too" XD

Finnical2/26/2015, 10:48:52 AM5 votes

You be the better person, don’t wait for someone else to do it for you

This is the core of change. Change yourself first, everyone else comes after.

Jubbinaut2/25/2015, 10:11:59 PM5 votes

I have found this site to be an invaluable tool when discussing fallacies, in no small part because it allows me to apply names to the fallacies I recognize - or even to arguments that just seem "wrong" (I'm apparently better at recognizing fallacious arguments than I am at recognizing why they're fallacious).

And I appreciate the hell out of this post.

Spikeman712/25/2015, 9:45:33 PM4 votes

Doesn't matter if people refuse to listen to logic.

flibitydoo2/26/2015, 4:47:03 AM3 votes

The issue is that a lot of the playerbase just won't learn.

For example, It's been well established among the boards that a champion's winrate is very non-indicative of how OP that champion is - This is a team game so there are at least 4 (maybe 9) other factors that dictate a champions winrate. Pickrate is also a relevant factor and so is general champion mastery (skill floor vs skill ceiling) , function in the meta and synergy (if all the FoTM champions have knockups, then Yasuo suddenly gets stronger due to synergy). All of these (along with the champions power) affect a champions winrate .

And yet people keep complaining on the boards that "X is OP because winrate and needs nerfs" or "X is UP because winrate and deserves buffs". And that is their only argument. And even when you explain how winrate is a fairly insignificant factor in determining how strong a champion is, they will not listen, they will not communicate. It's like talking to a wall.

And even when you fix that wall, and convince them otherwise... Another player will show up spouting the exact same arguments.

Orky Boss2/25/2015, 10:24:42 PM3 votes

Good stuff mate, have an upboat!

Spacesuit Spiff2/26/2015, 4:56:20 AM3 votes

Bravo for trying, but I fear your efforts are wasted here.

I don't know what's better for playing "name that logical fallacy": these boards or first-year sociology class discussions.

Dreddeth2/26/2015, 5:33:29 AM3 votes

I could not possibly thank you enough for this post. Intelligent discussion is perhaps the first step to having a meaningful positive impact over the internet.

GuerillaMonday2/26/2015, 8:28:21 PM3 votes

How do i petition to have this PINNED at the top of Boards. actually a shorter version with references. (im thinking kids and trolls dont like to read to much)

Auryiel2/26/2015, 2:48:53 AM2 votes

I have a whole class on argumentation and yeah, it's important, but...

As you've mentioned several times, a lot of people believe that actually making an effort to properly phrase your arguments is a waste of time and honestly, seeing how little Riot seems to care about player feedback, I can't blame them.

TBH I gave up a while ago. I'll save myself some time and just upvote stupidly over dramatic posts that kinda make me laugh.

I just hope others don't become as jaded, you guys are like rays of light in this place.

Leo Wooj2/26/2015, 8:35:09 PM2 votes

[deleted]

MeesterMoo2/25/2015, 10:16:11 PM1 votes

The power of copy-paste is too powerful

Jamnon2/27/2015, 12:25:20 AM1 votes

Sticky plz.