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Should there eventually be a Thief Champion? Help me design one.

darkdill··4 votes·1,555 views

While Talon, TF, and others might give off slight "thief" vibes, they aren't quite close enough. I'd rather have someone who SCREAMS "thief" in the roster, both in aesthetics and gameplay.

Now, thieves have a stigma of "don't kill on the job", so I'm thinking to go with an Enchanter-class Support Champion. The gimmick to this Champion would be "steal from the enemy, give to your team". Only Trundle has something that's even slightly similar, but he doesn't share.

I don't have a complete kit yet, but I've got at least some ideas. If you have any others you'd like to share, I'm open to them. For now, here are a few starting details.

**Name: **Ritz, the Princess of Thieves Gender: Female Age: Early-20's Nationality: Piltover

Passive - Master Thief Escape Artist: When Ritz is dangerously low on health, she gains a massive boost in movement speed that decays over 5 seconds and can ignore unit collision during this time. Escape Artist has a static 90/75/60-second cooldown (improves at levels 7 and 13, respectively). Trap Awareness: Ritz can spot enemy invisible traps and wards within 500 range of her, but cannot attack them without a Sweeping Lens, Oracle Alteration, or other means of detection.

Q - Money-Maker Fires a skillshot in target direction that deals magic damage to the first enemy Champion or large monster it hits. If Money-Maker hits an enemy Champion, Ritz and her nearest ally both gain bonus gold.

W - Hextech Spellblocker Ritz uses her Hextech Spellblocker to give herself and one nearby allied Champion bonus movement speed and a spell shield for 1.5 seconds, blocking the next hostile ability. (If Ritz targets herself, the second spell shield is given to the nearest allied Champion.)

E - (need ideas)

R - The Big Heist Ritz dashes to target enemy Champion and steals a large percentage of its AD and AP. She can then recast this ability within a limited time to dash to an allied Champion and increase their AD/AP based on what she stole. All stat modifiers decay over their respective durations.

The idea of her kit is that she can boost allied income if she's aggressive, and turn the tables on even the most fed enemies, but she'd lack in the way of healing and crowd controls. She's definitely meant to be a niche pick, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. She has unique tools that can be handy in several situations, but requires you to play her differently from other support Champions.

I'm looking for harass and mobility in her kit, not toughness, healing, or killing power (she's not gonna be an assassin). Any ideas?

33 Comments

Variks the Loyal3 votes

So, if you want to capture the essence and feeling of a thief, you need to rob something from an enemy. And not something extremely detrimental or painful; thieves in fantasy aren't often stealing enemy life force, except in rare cases.

Look at stealth games with 'pacifist' potential; in Thief, Rise of the Ninja, and Dishonored(IIRC, haven't played the latter), you have the option of stealing primarily, and do the entire playthrough without killing anybody (Except rare cinematic killings for the story). That's where inspiration should be drawn.

When I think of a thief, I think Support is probably the best subclass for the fantasy. The playstyle would likely be unique, falling outside of League's typical classes (A few champs, like Singed and Fiddlesticks, already do this).

I imagine the champion 'stealing' vision from the enemy; perhaps through an ability you could 'rob' a ward, turning the enemy's vision into your own vision. You could 'pick the locks' on the enemy base gates, allowing your team a subtle, rapid way into the base while circumventing the towers.

Perhaps a form of 'cover' could be utilized to allow the thief to walk past enemy towers without the tower noticing them. Enemy champions, of course, would still see them and could attack them. The thief, using this ability, could steal fortifications from the tower (In the form of directly stolen health, or perhaps some of the tower's Armor, or a more unique resource unique to the thief's presence), and, should they make it back to their own tower, apply it to their own. The enemy team's job, then, would be to attempt to catch the thief in the act, or cut them off before they could reach their own tower.

A similar act could be used for an inhibitor.

Perhaps the thief could roam the map and steal gold from jungle camps, leaving only EXP for a jungler to harvest. Perhaps they could 'spike' plants in the jungle, causing harmful effects to enemy champions that attempt to utilize them.

Just a few thoughts.

darkdill1 votes

I have stuff like generating gold and stealing enemy offensive stats in mind.

For instance, the ultimate can be used against an enemy who's out of control to turn the tables on them, which can be really valuable to have. However, there is definitely counterplay to said ultimate, in that you can kill the thief before it gets away with the stolen stats.

Kyrrion2 votes

I always thought it'd be interesting if there was a middle child from the Crownguard family who was a Chaotic Good radical fed up with the rigidity of Demacia's suffocating laws while seeking to expose corrupt nobility. What better way than to do that than to steal important documents and break into places you shouldn't be in order to spy on someone? You know, it's always the middle one that acts out so he's not looked over. Or maybe the fact he's looked over is what makes it easy for him to be such a sneak? His older brother is the paragon of his country and his little sister is prodigy. Pretty stiff competition imo. Would make for some juicy drama too imo.

Would also open the sibling up for being a thematic Marksman/Assassin-esque champ (Garen is Fighter/Tank, Lux Mage/Support, and mid-kid is Assassin/Marksman) to fill out the trifecta of classes.

ANYWAY

I'd like to see a champ that mainly throws daggers (including AA). Sure, Kat and Shaco throw theirs but they're still fairly melee (Kat admittedly PBAoE, but it's still point blank).

Passive - Thief's Mark Marks enemy champions as an on-hit effect. At 4 stacks, getting into melee range for an auto attack deals bonus damage and by passes % armor (both bonus damage and % arpen scaling with level).

Q - Premeditation / Dagger Rain First Activation - Enter a state of focus, disabling auto attacks for up to 5 seconds - gaining the Premeditation buff.

Secondary Activations - Mark a target to throw a dagger at it after Premeditation buff ends. Can mark up to 3/4/5/6/7 times based on skill rank. Each dagger applies onhit effects and can be blocked like a skillshot (though hones in on initial target). Enemies can see who has a mark on them. Once all marks are assigned, casting Q again ends Premeditation prematurely.

Once Premeditation ends, a dagger for each mark is thrown in the same order they are assigned. Daggers are thrown over a 2 second period - can be interrupted by CC by has a better range than basic AA's and you are able to move while throwing daggers.

W - Swift Feet Passive - Gain bonus movespeed for 1 second that decays on-hit.

Active - Gain a movespeed boost when running AWAY from enemy champions. Because a thief has got to troll a little bit and kite.

E - Sleight of Hand Activate to gain attack speed for a short period of time. Every 3rd attack while the buff is active will throw out a second dagger, dealing additional damage and applying on-hit affects again.

R - Phantom Strike Dash to a target enemy and perform a melee auto attack (deals no extra damage in itself). Can be cast a second time to dash in a target direction and gain invisibility for a short period of time. If this actives the passive, the cooldown is lowered and eventually refreshed at rank 3.

I think a hit and run based champ would be the best route, and hitting when someone's vulnerable.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Yes, there should be a thief champion, but designing a champion takes more than just thinking up a kit.

You imagine her to be a girl, why? What do you imagine her color scheme and palette to look like? How does she dress? You mention she comes from Piltover - the champions who come from Piltover have a very specific look to them, and often feature Hextech weapons or tools of some kind - how does that factor in to her appearance? Why does she come from Piltover and not some other place? What is her motivation for stealing? Who does she steal from? What does she steal? (You'd have her steal stats in-game, but how does this translate into her lore and story thematic?)

I'm asking you all these things because when most people think of 'thief' they imagine these kinda fellows:

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fth01.deviantart.net%2Ffs71%2FPRE%2Fi%2F2013%2F270%2F5%2F4%2Fgarrett___thief_by_yibingling-d6ny4wn.png&f=1

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ec0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F78%2F31%2Fe5%2F7831e5fd0fe49c18ce46d23c84b439cc.jpg&f=1

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fth00.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2FPRE%2Fi%2F2014%2F133%2Fe%2F5%2Fthief_by_diegogisbertllorens-d7i6tni.jpg&f=1

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fc6%2F57%2F8b%2Fc6578bce6852dd3d4fdc39acfe4ae49d.jpg&f=1

But we aren't just looking to port the thief archetype into League of Legends - we need THE League of Legend's thief. She has to fit with League's art style and into League's world. Answering all of those questions above is just as important as coming up with a kit. Answering those questions, or at least trying to answer them, will give us insight into the kit she should have, which will inform us about her art and narrative, which will feedback into the kit, possibly giving it a new direction. It's a continuous reiteration process.

I'm sure you know all of this already, but it bears repeating. I've also spent a fair amount of time thinking about those questions in regard to a thief champion and this is what I came up with:

http://pre07.deviantart.net/18db/th/pre/i/2017/027/1/3/imoen_league_of_legends_yordle_thief_altcolor_by_drugsforrobots-dawyujt.png

  • She's a female yordle which mostly subverts the thief archetype - she's not a grim-dark serious thief. She doesn't wear black leather and isn't masked or hooded. She doesn't duel wield daggers or poisons or anything of the sort.
  • She's brightly colored - again, subverting what most people expect from a thief. The idea that she intentionally makes it more difficult for her to commit acts of thievery - she enjoys the challenge. I'm not the best at color theory, but I think the orange and blue go together, and the blueish-green and golds compliment those colors.
  • She has a cloak and several bags (of holding) and purses (of plenty) for storing all her loot that she steals. The cloak also gives her a neat silhouette in-game, as it emphasizes each of her movements. It's also implicitly magical (referencing cloaks of invisibility and such). You'll also notice that she has a lot of rings, bracelets, and earrings on, and even some necklaces woven into her hair.
  • I imagine her being from the Bilgewater, which I hope her color-scheme alludes to. Bilgewater also makes sense as it's the home of pirates, con-men, and outlaws, and rumors of treasure and secret caches of gold abound.
  • Her weapon is a giant magical key - it can open any door or lock from a distance, as well as lock enemies away in a secret treasure vault for a short time. What more useful tool could a thief ask for?
  • She steals because its fun for her. She's not poor, or desperate for cash, she does it for the challenge. She's not even all that attached to what she steals, which is why, in her gameplay I've imagined for her, she routinely hides her stolen goods - giving anyone who stumbles across it a bit of bonus gold.
  • Of course, she steals from the thieves and brigands of the Bilgewater! She steals their gold, mostly, but also jewelry (which she likes to wear) and gems (which she likes to stash in nooks and crannies as a surprise to anyone who finds them). Very rarely has she stolen something so useful that she's kept it with her all this time - her key and cloak and bags (of holding) being some such objects.

I just thought I'd share these ideas with you, since we're both working on a thief champion. Maybe you can draw some ideas from Imoen, or put your own twist on her. In a moment, I'm gonna talk about ideas for a thief's kit and what I came up with for Imoen and why I went the route I did.

darkdill1 votes

I was more thinking something like this from Sword Art Online.

http://imgur.com/e6LifAx

I know, looks kinda generic, but I can't draw for the life of me, so this would be used as a starting reference.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

Imoen initially started out very similar for me.

http://img13.deviantart.net/4d6c/i/2016/099/5/1/key_thief_girl_sketch_by_drugsforrobots-d9yaxpy.jpg

I'm not very good either, but I'm getting better.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

So about a thief's gameplay...

She needs to have good movement speed, as thieves are fast and agile, adroit, dexterous, etc. You've got that in her Passive and W, and I actually like her W, but the 1st part of the Passive is reactive rather than proactive, I think, and it would like our thief to be proactive in her pursuits. Escape Artist does encourage her to be brave, which I like since she knows she can get out of trouble.

A thief also needs to feel stealthy. So she needs a way to become invisible, and if she could make allies invisible she'd really offer some powerful utility. Thieves are associated with the night and darkness, so there must be a way we can work that into an ability thematically, unless you want to go the invisibility cloak or hextech device route.

We need to know our thief's weapon if we're going to give her any offensive abilities, and regardless we need to figure out what her basic attack animation looks like. Duel wielding daggers has been done to death. Sometimes thieves are depicted with ranged weaponry... and you did say you wanted to be able to harass... is it possible that she could be League's premier Support / Marksman?

What else do thieves do? Well, in classic DnD, WoW, and a bunch of other games and movies, thieves can spot, disable, and use traps, or have some affinity for mechanics and security. I think that, as a support, we should shy away from using offensive traps, and I would like to see her be able to find traps and wards. Finding wards is crucial, as it actually lets her engage in stealth gameplay without using her invisibility ability - she can avoid wards entirely and sneak around them.

Also, your ability names are just as important as the effect and artwork. You call her the Princess of Thieves, how does that tie into her abilities?

darkdill1 votes

The title "Princess of Thieves" is meant to be a in-story moniker, but I may have to change it if that reason is insufficient. If so, what would you suggest as a title?

As for making her ranged, that is a tricky thing to consider, as I want her ultimate to be extremely risky for such a huge potential payoff. Then again, having her melee would make her unfeasible.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I was calling Imoen 'An Honest Thief' because she's not greedy and doesn't mind sharing (she divides the gold she steals amongst her allies). You'll also notice that in my art for her I gave her a little tiara thing. This was directly inspired by KNKL's Gangplank Concept artwork where he mentions GP as wearing the treasure he has looted.

I thinking making her range plays into the idea of being a support (most supports are ranged) and as far as being risky... I had this idea of their being a 'treasure' beneath each enemy tower that she can get, but that requires some risk on her part. She also has her Q which creates a corridor that makes her invis but also Nearsights her, again, creating some risk. Her E grants her a shield that also prevents crowd control, encouraging her to jump in front of allies who would be CC'ed. (Thematically, she's stealing magical spells being thrown at her allies.)

Her kit.

venomous frost1 votes

if you are talking about visuals, safecracker evelynn and pickpocket twitch or thieves

darkdill2 votes

Skins do not count as characters.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

what about a champ thats a jger who gains abilities, or bonus passives(steals) them from monsters, kinda like anti ivern? not sure, made it on the spot, branch out from there

darkdill1 votes

Nunu used to do this.

LordoftheWild1 votes

Q: Thief's Shadow (basic idea: Ritz can sneak around) Ritz blends into the shadows granting her invisibility for 5 seconds. During this time, Ritz can move around without losing the invisibility, If Ritz is damaged during this time, the invisibility wears off. This does not prevent Ritz from being targeted by turrets.

W: Kleptomaniac (basic idea: Ritz steals gold, a decent amount of it) Ritz steals 5% of the gold of the next enemy champion she hits within 4 seconds. If she hits the enemy champion more than once, she gains 2.5% of the remaining gold on the second hit and 0.5% on the third hit.

E: Perceptive (basic idea: Ritz is alert of her surroundings) Ritz and the closest allied champion become aware of invisible enemy champions (in bushes, teemo etc.) and take reduced damage from them until they are visible for 5 seconds.

great concept btw, I really hope it gets added.

darkdill5 votes

That W is toxic gameplay. Stealing gold from another player's coffers is 100% forbidden gameplay because there's no way to deal with it.

LordoftheWild1 votes

good point. Maybe have the w do a little bit of knockback. not too much but enough to be there if its needed (like to make a getaway).

ZANGRI STREAKS1 votes

I would rather see the W be Called Sap: After activation next champion hit within 4 sec duration is slowed by % , if used while thief's shadow is active next hit stuns for a given duration.

Balatobieyo1 votes

R: Steals a random item from a enemy champion's inventory and grants the enemy champ 100% of its value in gold. After 10/20/30sec, remove said item from your inventory.

darkdill2 votes

TOXIC.

LordoftheWild1 votes

ok ya, now that I think about it, it is pretty toxic.

LordoftheWild1 votes

maybe that might work for the w?

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Talon is a thief...

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Having a line of 'was a thief' in his backstory doesn't make him League's thief. His gameplay, theme, and aesthetic don't support the idea of him being a thief.

darkdill2 votes

This. He will always remind me more of Ezio Auditore rather than a thief.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Ezio kept pickpocketing and lock picking after he became an assassin, argument invalid.

darkdill1 votes

Talon does not have thief-style gameplay. He's all stabby-stabby.

Where in his kit does he steal things?

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

He steals your life. Now quit downvoting me. A thief champ means to steal your gold and to NOT kill you. It doesn't fit. There's an actual thief, but not a thief kit. GO downvote more.

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

Once a thief always a thief

FloRaider421 votes

Passive: Steal and Give Ritz can channel on an enemy structure for X (-level) seconds (higher tiers of turrets -> inhibitors -> nexus give increasingly higher level of loot). Completing the channel gives her a big sack of loot that slows her while carrying it (channel doesn't enter combat, dying destroys sack of loot). The same structure can't be looted for the next X(-level) seconds.

Interacting with allied structures consumes the sack of loot and gives buffs depending on the level of loot: All structures: Restores X amount of HP to structure and gives you a big amount of XP and gold Own turret: Increases AD, AR and MR of the turret by X Own Inhibitor: Next Wave on the lane spawns a super minion Own Nexus: Gives the whole team X gold

Q: Cheap Shot Generates one stack every X seconds up to X stacks. Throws a package filled with a suprise that explodes at max range or the first enemy champion hit and damages and slows all enemies in range.

W: Ultimate Deceit (Toggle) Passive: When not in combat for X seconds Ritz becomes invisible to the enemy teams mini map (still visible on screen). Active: Ritz covers herself with a Cardboard box slowing her, but making her invisible to all enemy structures and minions. Getting damaged or using other abilities ends active effect.

E: Stealthy Entry/Hasty Exit (Toggle-mana cost increases up to X during the first X seconds) Cast on ground: Gives invisibility while toggled (moving while invisible increases the mana cost by X) Cast on Self: Greatly increases MS while toggled During the duration you aren't affected by slows caused by your own abilities.

R: Master Thief Passive: Enables you to have multiple sacks of loot (X+level) at once (slow increases accordingly) Active: ???

darkdill1 votes

I figured out at least one basic ability to give her.

The ability, which I'm currently calling Hextech Spellblocker, gives herself and one allied Champion a brief spellshield. This is meant to be like Sivir's or Nocturne's spell shields, not Morgana's, so it only blocks one hit. Presently there aren't any supports who have the ability to grant their allies a spellshield, so this could be some very interesting utility.

No flash no life1 votes

I suggested a similar idea before, a thief champion that can steal item from enemy champion. Sounds gud eh ;D

Munisylc1 votes

Here's a few ideas.

Basic Ability (Cutpurse)- Ritz steals x gold from an enemy unit, dealing x physical damage and applying a buff. Stealing from the same target multiple times stacks/increases the buff. [::BUFF:: Unit grants x less gold when killed, where x is the amount of gold stolen from the unit by Ritz]

  • Note: If Ritz manages to steal all the gold from a minion/jungle creep, she will only deal damage, and won't be able to steal any more gold.

Innate (Alms)- Ritz gifts 1 gold every 5 seconds to nearby allies with less total gold than her. Ritz is gifted 1 gold every 5 seconds from each nearby ally with more total gold than Ritz.

Hammermancer1 votes

Renaldo the Suave Swordsman

I actually have no clue about this.. just that he's basically twitch in a zoro outfit with a rapier and a lasso...

Basically a zoro rat rat zoro

make it a champ rito

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