What if the Cloud Drake also reduced recall times slightly?

darkdill·May 22, 2016·243 votes·5,843 views

Could improve how it enhances map mobility while also being outright useful to teams, unless that kind of bonus is forbidden due to Baron buff.

69 Comments

UnvictusMay 22, 201662 votes

That could be a cool addition. It wouldn't have to be as short as baron recall, but maybe a 1/2/3 second removal in recall based in stacks. As it is Cloud Drake feels the weakest and teams just aren't inclined to take it. Or possibly Cloud Drake could give you a small homeguard effect before 20 minutes and once 20 minutes hits it makes that homeguard better, I don't know, just a thought.

Tenmo PlayerMay 22, 201611 votes

{quoted}

That could be a cool addition. It wouldn't have to be as short as baron recall, but maybe a 1/2/3 second removal in recall based in stacks. As it is Cloud Drake feels the weakest and teams just aren't inclined to take it. Or possibly Cloud Drake could give you a small homeguard effect before 20 minutes and once 20 minutes hits it makes that homeguard better, I don't know, just a thought.

But when you get baron, wouldn't this buff be useless? Also how would elder drake amplify this recall buff then? You should think about all counterplay, buggs it could cause and how it would be coded first. This is also why we can't have very nice thngs in league, no counterplay.

UnvictusMay 22, 201612 votes

{quoted}

But when you get baron, wouldn't this buff be useless? Also how would elder drake amplify this recall buff then? You should think about all counterplay, buggs it could cause and how it would be coded first. This is also why we can't have very nice thngs in league, no counterplay.

Yea that's a good point, elder drag did come to mind and I'm not really sure how the interaction would work. All I know is cloud drake needs something, cause like I said its pretty sub par atm.

Tenmo PlayerMay 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yea that's a good point, elder drag did come to mind and I'm not really sure how the interaction would work. All I know is cloud drake needs something, cause like I said its pretty sub par atm.

You COULD however make it 1 Sec, 1.5 Sec and 2 Sec. then elder makes it 2 Sec, 3 Sec, and 4 Seconds This would be a 2 minute Baron buff and there would be alot of counterplay to it aswell

darkdillMay 23, 20161 votes

Only issue is what happens when you combine a level 3 Cloud Elder buff with Baron buff, unless you add in a minimum recall time.

BladegloryMay 23, 20162 votes

Recall time with Cloud Dragon Buff: 7s, 6s, 5s Recall time with Elder Dragon: 6.5s, 5s, 3.5s Recall time with Baron Buff: 3s, 2s, 1s Recall time with both buffs: 2.5s, 1s, -0.5s

What, you don't want a mini-Ekko ult back to base when you press B?

SilmarilMay 23, 20168 votes

I can just imagine it: A teamfight breaks out, the frontline does their job spectacularly, with an impeccable engage and the fight is all but guaranteed to be a win.

Suddenly the 12/0 Lucian just vanishes, with nary a hint of his presence, save for the single line that appears in chat: "shit, I accidentally hit b".

His team gets instantly wiped in the 4v5. ggwp

Lady HammerlockMay 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yea that's a good point, elder drag did come to mind and I'm not really sure how the interaction would work. All I know is cloud drake needs something, cause like I said its pretty sub par atm.

they should change the ms to % rather then flat

forrestoMay 23, 20161 votes

well, baron is very temporary, while this would be permanent.

ImmortalBloodCYMay 22, 20164 votes

I kill all the dragons as a Mordekaiser main when i am jungling. So all of them are worthwhile to get.

The additional power makes tower diving easier since the tower will always focus the Dragon and not Mordekaiser as long as the Dragon goes in first.

Besides that out of combat movement speed can help supports alot more.

Velzard of KozMay 22, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I kill all the dragons as a main when i am jungling. So all of them are worthwhile to get.

That's wonderful argument. It's useful for mains of one champion with roster larger than 100 champions. Makes sense.

The additional power makes tower diving easier since the tower will always focus the Dragon and not Mordekaiser as long as the Dragon goes in first.

This would be also valid argument If OP asked for Cloud Drake's removal. Even then really not cause the times when you can get Drake would be unchanged. That Morde can use dragon's soul is irrelevant to the usage of the buff the dragon gives.

ImmortalBloodCYMay 22, 20161 votes

I find the buff the Dragon gives worthwhile when i am playing Supports.

But then again those who dont play supports will never understand.

That said each person has a different opinion about the dragons so i will leave it at that.

Whut Thuh May 22, 20162 votes

i think it would be much more significant and on the same level as say fire drag if it was static ms rather than just out of combat movespeed. i feel like this would make it more significant and feel better for all lanes

forrestoMay 23, 20163 votes

honestly I don't see why they didnt just do that. it's not exactly a game-breaking amount of speed.

Whut Thuh May 23, 20162 votes

my thoughts exactly.

Velzard of KozMay 22, 201641 votes

The moment when everyone takes Cloud Drake only so that another Drake could replace him.

A Miss FortuneMay 22, 20169 votes

That's depressing.

Velzard of KozMay 22, 201612 votes

That's a... misfortune ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

A Miss FortuneMay 23, 20168 votes

Never heard that one before.

Sad TyrantMay 23, 20164 votes

Really? that's very misfortunate :P

Whut Thuh May 22, 20161 votes

indeed

JasiwelMay 22, 20164 votes

Reduced recall time is extremely powerful though. Given Elder Dragon improves that rate by 1.5x, the advantage would be astronomical. 1/2/3 is kind of absurd when factoring how valuable each second can be. This is in addition to the out-of-combat MS it gives.

I'd argue making it something like 0.5/1.0/1.5 or 1/1.5/2 would be better for balance purposes; even that half-second can prove exceptionally useful.

I really like the idea of augmented in-base movement speed though.

Whut Thuh May 22, 20161 votes

or they could make it static movespeed rather than ooc movespeed

VenowolfMay 23, 20161 votes

1/1.5/2 second will be more fair because in the scenarios of Baron and Elder Drake is like 0.5s of duration wih those numbers that you suggested.

GigaPubeMay 23, 20161 votes

i like the mini homeguard before 20. it cant be too big though cos then its just 2 mediocre effects in 1 dragon. a mini homeguard before 20 can be abused though, +20 to +50 movespeed for a homeguard teleport might get top hecarim into the meta again by itself

SpoofghoulMay 22, 201612 votes

what if it also increased the movespeed softcap by the same amount

better movement when boosting mobility with for example a sivir ult or when you have things like deadmansplate or mobi boots

and it will also make the post 20min homeguards better

PikmintsMay 22, 20166 votes

Riot stated that they want all of the buffs to open up strategic options. Earth incentivizes teams to seige, water to poke, fire to fight, and air to split push. While these traits are simplified for the sake of this post, they each have a clear purpose. Reducing recall times would make it more powerful but it wouldn't open up much room for teams to plan around said bonus.

Let's also take a look at the numbers that would be needed if this were implemented. Assuming that Riot allowed for the dragon recall buff and baron recall buff to stack, which would adhere to most of their other design principles, then the air buff has 4 seconds to work with. Let's assume a team were to get 3 air dragons and an elder dragon making the bonus 4.5 times its base value. That would mean that if a single air dragon granted a .89 second reduction, the team with those buffs would have instant recalls. Since instant recalls are never going to be a sign of good gameplay, the most a single air buff could reduce recall times by would be .75 seconds, and even then any champ's total recall time would be less than .75 seconds and still be an absurd amount of safety to provide. Teams likely wouldn't feel the effectiveness of a single buff much if it was .75 seconds or less, but that's what the numbers would need to be in order to avoid edge cases where it would become unbearable.

I was thinking they could split the movement speed buff in half with one half working like the assassin mastery, having there be movement speed associated with no nearby allies being around. If you were split pushing you'd see no significant change in power, but people in-combat would still maintain half of the power the buff provides. Both good for split pushing and makes people able to recover from being caught out more frequently, but also allows people to attempt riskier tasks such as stealing buffs because if someone were to come try and stop them they'd still have half of the buff helping them since they were in combat at the time but alone. The air buff would go from it's current role of split pushing to an all around solo-champ speed boost.

GankLordMay 22, 20164 votes

Honestly I'd say a small tenacity boost instead of reduced recall time or ms.

Bloodsoaked EveMay 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Honestly I'd say a small tenacity boost instead of reduced recall time or ms.

tenacity is a bad Idea. with the mastery you get 15% and boots add another 30% to that, making 45%. reducing ALL CC BY HALF. If you added more tenacity you might as well have five olafs running around. not to mention how broken Irelia would be in teamfights with her current 85% max tenacity. add more and she becomes an unccable Team destroyer.

CasterGilgameshMay 22, 20161 votes

i thought riot capped Tenacity

GankLordMay 22, 20162 votes

they did which is why i think it should be done ms is nice but negligible.

DraqoneMay 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

they did which is why i think it should be done ms is nice but negligible.

Pretty sure tenacity doesn't stack additively anyway. Meaning having 50% tenacity + 50% from another source is still only 75% effective tenacity.

TSwift Is SexyMay 22, 20162 votes

Yes please. I've noticed that when the dragon is cloud, my teams rarely even make a play for it. Neither does the other team. The risk is currently not worth the reward.

Selrick002May 22, 20162 votes

I second adding reduced recall time to it (.5/1/2 sec). Alternatively it could also give the item 3046 move through units effect or even an attack speed stat (that might be to role dependent though).

Whut Thuh May 22, 20161 votes

because as is totally useful on alistar lol

BolwinkelMay 23, 20161 votes

Honestly, if the reduced recall is kept with baron buff, I think it should either be A) .3/.7/1 second less or B) 0/.75/1.5.

DraqoneMay 22, 20162 votes

The only thing this needs is giving the movement speed only when out of combat with champions.

This would make the buff important for junglers and splitpushers.

SpecterVonBarenMay 23, 20162 votes

How about Cloud drake giving you increased tenacity? Something like 5% for each dragon? Then you have out of combat mobility and in combat CC reduction to get away from fights.

MhihnjMay 23, 20162 votes

maybe it could reduce death timers by a couple of seconds, so that it becomes more useful late game. Just a suggestion

Raj Te Lag CompMay 22, 20161 votes

I say add an in combat speed increase, say maybe 5% then 10% then 15% each drake.

Oakleaf RangerMay 22, 20169 votes

I made a post about this and all I got was a troll who said " der Der adc sure need more mobility" :(

Raj Te Lag CompMay 22, 20161 votes

can't please everybody.

Whut Thuh May 22, 20161 votes

rip

Whut Thuh May 22, 20161 votes

it could even give small amounts of cdr. like 2.5 5 and 7.5 % cdr

ABlueQuakerMay 23, 20161 votes

I feel as though the Cloud and Mountain Drakes are pretty underwhelming. Infernal and Ocean are the only ones I bother contesting unless we have a good team fighting composition. But even then we're just fighting for the sake of fighting and the more likely objectives for us to take, provided we win the fight, are towers.

And this is just simply due to the fact that they give you no combat advantage. Only pro teams would prioritize those dragons and only if they were running a specific comp.

SpongebobIsLifeMay 23, 20161 votes

nah, mountain drake is pretty strong, it's the best early game dragon imo

MealReadytoEatMay 24, 20161 votes

Ocean blows it out of the water. But yea, the tower/baron/dragon melting is no joke, but hard to appreciate at times.

CattimanMay 23, 20161 votes

That's a great idea. I think that the Cloud Drake gives a useless buff compared to the others. Plus 15/30/45 out of combat speed? What on Earth is that? Clearlly a reduced recall time would make matches a lot more interesting, even if it is a 0,6 seconds reduced time for each Cloud Drake.

cloman100May 24, 20161 votes

What if cloud drake made AurelionSol into Ao Shin

HollowchazzMay 24, 20161 votes

Just make it in combat movement speed like the original dragon buff (being 5% speed)

i feel like mountain dragon should also buff everyones armor and magic resist by 1%/2%/3% nothing too massive but enough to make this dragon buff mean something 50 minutes in when the enemy has just nexus turrets left and theres no baron...In this situation mountain is pretty much useless till the next baron/dragon. Also mountain doesnt do bonus damage to inhibs which drives me crazy.