[Rework Concept] Shaco, the Demon's Laughter

SSmotzer··34 votes·4,954 views

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w7B0tBRajWU/Uylf601k31I/AAAAAAAAKFk/66jaPJQxJmg/s1600/Shaco-League-of-Legends-Wallpaper-full-HD-24.jpg

Passive - Juggling Blades: While out of combat, Shaco begins to juggle his knives, up to 3. Shaco's basic attack while juggling will gain bonus range and will always critical strike, dealing mixed damage based on his attack damage and ability power. Each attack consumes one of his Juggling Blades.

Q - Hallucination: Shaco throws a Juggling Blade in a target direction, without consuming a Juggling Blade. The knife explodes into a cloud of gas that lingers for a few seconds at the end of it's path or on the first enemy struck. Enemy champions in the gas begin to hallucinate, causing every champion they see to appear as Shaco, but they can not damage allies.

W - Bag of Tricks - First Cast: Shaco reaches into his sleeve and cycles through Jack in the Box, Blood Red Balloon, and Mimed Walls for 6 seconds. Choosing one by reactivating Bag of Tricks to place a trap at a target location.

  • Jack in the Box - Second Cast: Shaco places a Jack in the Box which lasts for several seconds. After a brief delay the Jack in the Box becomes stealthed. Once active, when an enemy gets close enough the Jack in the Box pops open and fears all near by enemies before launching a few attacks, dealing magic damage to the nearest enemy.

  • Blood Red Balloon - Seconds Cast: Shaco places a Blood Red Balloon which lasts for several seconds. After a brief delay the Blood Red Balloon becomes stealthed. Once active, when an enemy gets close enough the Blood Red Balloon it pops in a fountain of blood, knocking away all enemies and applying a poison to them, which deals magic damage and slows them for a few seconds.

  • Mimed Walls - Second Cast: Shaco stops and channels, as he begins to gesture for a moment. After, the area around Shaco is surrounded by a circle of invisible walls for several seconds. Shaco and his allies can pass through these walls and can see them, but enemies can only pass through them one way. Once an enemy walks through the walls they become somewhat visible and their position is alerted to Shaco and his team, once triggered the walls only last a few seconds.

E - Smoke and Mirrors: Shaco blinks a short distance and stealths for a few seconds, but a visible clone of himself will keep traveling in the direction he was going for a second. If an enemy attacks the clone it will shatter and one of Shaco's Juggling Blades will automatically counter attack them, without consuming a Juggling Blade.

R - Fun House of Horrors: Shaco completely vanishes for a second before reappearing, causing an explosion of his hallucination gas when he reappears. When he reappears, around him is a larger Mimed Walls, but enemies inside have their vision reduced to only inside of the walls, they becomes poisoned by Blood Red Balloon, and at the center is a turret sized Jack in the Box. Also, for the next several seconds Shaco's Smoke and Mirror clone doesn't shatter and can be controlled like a pet. If the turret sized Jack in the Box is destroyed, this ability ends early.

49 Comments

SSmotzer2 votes

New Buying Quote?

"Pound Foolish they called me, now I'm Penny Wise."

warpenguin55514 votes

This actually looks really good. However i think Q and E should switch spots for consistency sake

SSmotzer2 votes

You mean how every single champion since 2011 has had their skill shot on Q and movement ability on E?

ModThe Djinn12 votes

{quoted}

You mean how every single champion since 2011 has had their skill shot on Q and movement ability on E?

Aside from Kayne (dash on Q, skillshot AoE on W), Rakan (dash on W), and Rengar (skillshot on E), but yeah -- that is the trend. :)

In this case I think it might be appropriate to break the pattern though, as your Q is primarily a utility feature, and Shaco does currently have his blink on his Q. I wouldn't change Shaco's ability order without a better reason than "most other champions do it this way" since you'll really throw off any existing Shaco players.

The Trent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=h17k84Pm,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-10T17:35:15.931+0000)

Aside from Kayne (dash on Q, skillshot AoE on W), Rakan (dash on W), and Rengar (skillshot on E), but yeah -- that is the trend. :)

In this case I think it might be appropriate to break the pattern though, as your Q is primarily a utility feature, and Shaco does currently have his blink on his Q. I wouldn't change Shaco's ability order without a better reason than "most other champions do it this way" since you'll really throw off any existing Shaco players.

Kayn's movement ability is on e and his q does move him, but it's also a body skill shot. Rengar's movement ability is on passive so they didn't really care about ordering except for putting his defensive ability on w. Only makes sense for riot to order abilities this way so that it feels smooth when we move from champion to champion.

warpenguin5551 votes

I meant with his current kit, but I dont word things well sometimes XD

PurpLsmurF7 votes

Take a second look at what you just posted, no sarcasm here. You have an assassin ( I'm assuming ) with 3 CC options on a single ability (w). An ultimate that applies (2?) forms of CC and another overpowered disable on (Q). The only other champion that comes to mind with this much cc is Nautilus, and that's a tank. Don't get me wrong I love shaco, but that is just begging for him to reach 100% banrate in ranked.

SSmotzer2 votes

Yeah, but imagine how fun it would be to set up some balloon in the enemy jungle to knock them into the walls filled with jack in the boxes?

I'm not saying it's fair or balanced, it just sounds really fun to set up Rube Goldberg-esque death traps, and the ult is kind of an instant set up for one.

Radiant Seraph1 votes

This sounds really really good and I'm actually quite fine with his W as long as it has a decently long cooldown and it takes some time to set up those amazing traps. I think this design is quite good but it lacks counterplay. Specially his E is too overloaded. I would just make his E the same as his current Q honestly. However, I should say this Shaco is no longer -or rather shouldn't be- an assassin in the sense that he shouldn't have much burst if you give him this much utility. I would say have everything deal lowish damage and let Shaco kill them with his passive and Q while in CC. Overall, this is great, have my upvote.

SSmotzer1 votes

I think the cooldown would be a little longer than it is now, but the length of time the traps last is tied to his ability power, meaning a full ap build will be able to set up a ton of traps over a few minutes, while a full ad build can maybe have 2 or 3 traps before they despawn.

Testlolla1 votes

It will be fine if the mimed wall can be destroy, like Yorick's wall, and let there be a triangle shape and when people destroy the wall they can only go through one direction of it, this gives Shaco more opportunity to play with the enermy's mind --- which was all shaco is essentially set up to do. (PINK WARD SENPAI)

WinTheWarOnPants4 votes

What is the goal with this rework? From what i can tell this kit is even more problematic and toxic than the current kit. You are keeping everything he has currently, but strait up buffing it and giving him less counterplay. I mean, WTF is that ult? untargetablility + unique CC + near sighted + poison + JarvanIV ult + Heimerdinger ulted jack in the box + his current ult(that's better because the dmg from destroying is targeted).... like really? Idk how you have so many upvotes cause you have to be insane to want to play against this. The dance is ok though

SSmotzer

Yeah, but this rework is more fun to play and thematic, I'll be it less balanced, but fun and themes should always come before balance, at least in the idea stage.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

fun and themes should always come before balance, at least in the idea stage.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/huh1.gif I kinda get what you're saying, but balance is THE most important thing. If you make champs that are "fun" for the person playing them at the expense of literally everyone else you will completely ruin the game. You have to find ways to make a champ fun, while still being balanced.

SSmotzer1 votes

I think the balance comes from the idea that if he doesn't have time to set up a few traps, he can't exactly over power anyone, just mess with them. That's why the ult in an instant set up on his traps, of course just like with his current ult, if you try it in a group fight, it will just explode and not really get to do anything. It doesn't work like J4's ult, if you do manage to get a squishy caught in it, their allies can just run in and focus fire the box until it disappears.

Bârd4 votes

Passive

This encourages an attack speed focused build. Shaco's an assassin, not a melee adc.

  • Make this a single empowered attack, maybe with a brief slow.
  • Shaco should need to be unseen to prime a dagger passively.

Q Nobody would be fooled by this.

  • Smoke should expire quickly, but leave a debuff on enemies that causes the "Everybody's Shaco" debuff.
  • Smoke debuff should also apply nearsight briefly, so the victim actually feels disoriented.

W

This is really cool, but tweaks are needed.

Mirror walls are fine to catch out individuals, but should be less powerful against groups.

  • Mirror walls can be destroyed with basic attacks (ala Yorick) but are only vulnerable from the outside.

I see what you're going for with the balloon, both thematically and gameplay wise, so here's something that does that a bit better.

  • The balloon is revealed to enemies who come within 325 units and charms them towards it if they come within 275, hearing Shaco's voice in their ear when they get charmed ("You'll float too").
  • The first enemy to touch the balloon will grab it and float to a location Shaco determined when he placed the balloon.
  • If you've been charmed by a balloon once, you cannot be charmed by them again for 20 seconds, but they will also not appear to you again during that time.

Jack in the Box. Tried and true. All is well here.

E The clone exploding the moment it gets tapped just limits the trickery you can do with it, and getting shanked every time you try to hit Shaco is not gonna be any fun.

  • Clone should not explode. Instead, have it throw a juggling blade to Shaco when the invisibility expires (after the full duration, not when Shaco ends it himself), dealing its damage to enemies in its path and restoring one blade to Shaco.

R Nope. This does not fit Shaco.

  • This is a big, teamfight ult. It encourages the playstyle of a tanky initiator like instead of an assassin like Shaco.

Here's something instead.

R: Smile!

Shaco applies a subtle madness to all enemies, making them think everything is fine. Any of Shaco's currently unseen allies become undetectable via wards, minions, or towers, and will not be detected unless they come within 550 units of an afflicted champion (this detection is personal, and will not be shared automatically with other champions). Any champion afflicted with madness will hallucinate that their nearby allies are walking alongside them, even if they are actually not nearby anymore.

Madness persists for X/X/X seconds, but ends early if damage is taken from a champion who was unseen when madness was applied. Enemies cannot see the debuff marker.

Sad Tyrant1 votes

The problem with your suggested

Passive

This encourages an attack speed focused build. Shaco's an assassin, not a melee adc.

Make this a single empowered attack, maybe with a brief slow. Shaco should need to be unseen to prime a dagger passively.

It is Kha'zix's Passive

Bârd1 votes

Yes and no.

Bonus damage and slow after being unseen is similar.

Four differences.

  1. This is additionally a critical strike.
  2. This has bonus range.
  3. This takes several seconds to charge, unlike Kha's instant proc upon being unseen.
  4. Shaco has to be out of combat, unlike Kha who can dip into a bush or press R in combat for a passive proc.
SSmotzer1 votes

After poking around some build lists, nearly all of the top rated ad builds have Ghostblade and Titenic for busts of attack speed.... Isn't my purposed passive perfect for already top tier Shaco builds?

I know, I just needed somewhere to squeeze in his "Hallucinate" and I figure the gas would be fun, and we've had that kind of mechanic during the Black Market Brawlers. So I figure it should make a comeback.

The charm doesn't really have the same impact, and the way I see it the knock back is perfect for blowing people into more traps.

I suppose the E could use some more work, but I don't know...

How does this ultimate need Shaco to be tanky? He stealths in, ults on the enemy team when they are trying to Dragon or baron, then when everyone is trapped, Shaco can throw his Q, make everyone look like Shaco so between the surprise and the confusion Shaco can easily start killing people or just walk out of the ultimate.

Eh, I don't know if Shaco's ultimate should be subtle. He's a seemingly immortal demi-god of chaos, I think he would want a big flashy finale to his death circus.

Bârd1 votes
  1. Youmuus doesn't give AS. T Hydra is used because you need a tiamat to clear at any reasonable speed and the auto reset is better than a bit of lifesteal in lategame teamfights.
  2. The problem with balloons just being invisible blast cones is that they wouldn't ever send people into your other traps. They'd just send them a few hundred units back in the direction they came from.
  3. The proposed ult is essentially a suped up J4 ult with no range. Shaco would have to E into range, ult, and either flash out or hope he doesn't die before he can walk his clowny ass out of his own circle. If he was building
  4. This ult would only be "subtle" until it breaks. Before then, your entire team gets to be a whole lot sneakier and the enemy team has no clue what is actually going on, to the point where they might engage a teamfight, unknowingly being alone. Once it ends, or is forcefully broken, shit goes down fast.
SSmotzer1 votes

Last I checked the slightest angle on a knock back would send people flying off away from the knock back, not send them back where they came from. Like, imagine if Teemo's shrooms had knock back, if you were walking from the left to the right and you clipped the bottom edge of the shroom, it would blow you down, not to the left.

Yes, Shaco would be in the center of his ultimate, probably surrounded by the enemy team. The problem is, everyone looks like Shaco. Most players aren't coordinated enough to tell which Shaco they should be attacking. besides, wouldn't the priority of the team be to destroy the giant jack in the box to get out? Not to mention Shaco's team could always run in and also look like Shaco.

Shaco is not a team player and the ult you're suggesting doesn't really fit with Shaco's demonic clown themes. That kind of ability has no real counter play, because even if you know what had happened, there's no real way to stop it. If you don't want to be in the ult I suggested, most champions can just dash or flash out, or if they have the dps, just kill the box. I kept the weakness of modern Shaco's ult, that enough damage can just end it.

Gildarzt2 votes

Actually shaco is a melee adc since he has no combo or damage on his abilities.

Bârd1 votes

He's an assassin and a trickster.

Flashiness isn't the deciding factor on whether you're an assassin or not. Shaco goes in, bursts the living shit out of somebody, and then escapes. That's an assassin.

When he's not doing that, he's baiting people into traps and tricking them with his clone.

If a Shaco tries to run at the enemy team and AA them to death, he's most likely going to die. His kit is focused on either bursting people or counter-attacking. He doesn't have the sustained damage of an ADC.

Gildarzt1 votes

can you explain me how shaco burst someone right now? or how can shaco scape with only one dash with a huge cd?

No, shaco right now need as, more than never, since he does not do any damage with his abilities.

Bârd1 votes
Gildarzt1 votes

yes, full build and feed, even with that he scapes running, becuase shaco only have a dash. also he is pink ward, probably the best guy to dominate shaco and even he has a bad kda / win rate with him.

keep thinking shaco is zed or talon, but you are wrong.

Testlolla2 votes

But the reason we play Shaco is because it's fun to trick people, and win the game by causing confusion, I believe Shaco shouldn't be in his current stag - useless if unfeed, it should be somewhere near the state of Singed.

Gildarzt1 votes

singed right now is fucking op.

yes, shaco is fun, really fun, and that's why i have been maining since 5 years ago. But you have to be honest with his state, right now he has not enough tricks, never had, but before you could compensate with damage, old shaco did a lot of damage, he was like a kamikaze, go, try to kill, usually dead too.

Right now shaco does not do enough damage in early / mid to become a true challenge. Late of course because his build is full ad or ap, any champion would do damage with that build.

The real problem is right now is his abilities and base damage, they are low and his mobility, he has no any mobility at all. Only one dash with a huge cd (the most cd in the game for that kind of basic ability).

He need more tricks and mobility in my opinion.

Testlolla1 votes

Exactly, he need more tricks and mobility. Damage is not as important in his theme, the ability to cause confusion and chaos will be most suited with his Background story. That's why I LOVED hallucinate effect, imagine put this to someone in a team fight. it should be on it's ult too. The rework ult in my opinion is a little to random, people may think random is the theme of Shaco but it's not, it's brilliant in a uncommon way. The ult feels like a Circus, but Shaco don't need to create a circus himself, he should change the Summoner's Rift into a circus.

Gildarzt1 votes

The only thing i would change would be his E for another blink + some effect. I did a post with a rework a few time ago, but it didn't like to the community >.<

HollowMimic1 votes

I like the E change; the blade gain makes this healthier imo. I dont like the R so much; way too complicated to pull off with little gain.

If you want to make it an actual Smile!, then make Shaco put a larger JitB that explodes with a laughing gas and all enemies inside the gas are forced into the laughing state of the champion (similar to how Sona is using her ult more or less).

TheZacStreetBoys3 votes

Passive: Poppy on a charge system. (This is pretty cool tho)

Arakadia2 votes

His passive doesn't seem fitting for an assassin. Primarily because the damage is spread among 3 autos.

JustMonika132 votes

Q hallucination is gimmicky at best. Unless 1) People don't have summoner names on or 2) It blocks out summoner names above HP bars... and people might complain about it, let alone the possible spaghetti code issued.

SSmotzer1 votes

We've already had this kind of ability in the blackwater brawl thing, and after a few patches they seemed to fix everything... mostly. I'm sure by now they've got that kind of ability all hammered out.

BoilTheOil1 votes

The W seems cool

ForgottenLuck1 votes

3 critical strikes in a row with his new passive while not building and CS chance seems a bit strong maybe add a cd on the target for each

SSmotzer1 votes

Yeah, but they are his only real damage sources, unless he goes all ap and becomes a Rube Goldberg machine of instant kills.

PaffWasTaken1 votes

My comments on this 1- Very good passive concept... But not for Shaco. He is meant to have a passive that forces him to play mischievously, not to become some kind of empowered AA hybrid monster. It sounds cool but charging up a passive just dosen't feel... Shaco -like 2- The cycling W is horrible. Shaco is the kind of champ that tricks people with fewer but more effective tools, so variety in his kit just dosen't feel right... Also, the cycling thing is just copy-paste from TwistedFate 3-Too much poison/DoT in this kit. He feels at home when he tricks and puts out burst. The only DoT in his original kit is meant, in his classic AD form, to be annoying, nothing more, nothing less. So anything that just lingers in his kit should be more about utility than damage 4-Come on... using a capacity inspired by another champ is ok, but now 2? That E just screams Leblanc , not that I wouldn't like to see that on Shaco, but he deserves more creativity 5- That ult just looks too much technical. Like I already said: less numerous options, more effective and creative ones

To be honest, nice concept, but I wouldn't like this at all on Shaco. Maybe for a new trickster-champ (would look cool on the mage AP side rather than the fighter one actually) but not at all for Shaco. When you read all this, you really wonder if you are really reading something related to Shaco. It is indeed a trickster/assassin's kit, but it's nowhere near the Shaco playstyle

SSmotzer1 votes

The problem is Shaco's play style right now is really bland. Outside of ap builds focusing on his boxes, his play style mostly involves just catching people off guard and simply auto attacking, maybe triggering his backstab once or twice in a fight.

It's really just a place holder. Riot probably has better ways of choosing different effects on a single ability, but people know TF, so I am using his mechanic as an example.

Shaco and LeBlanc do have the same roles to fill, only in different ways. They are both illusionist tricksters, only I am proposing Shaco use his tricks indirectly, as oppose to LeBlanc who's more direct.

Lore wise, Shaco is a seemingly immortal demi-god of chaos who kills people in elaborate ways as a joke. I think Shaco is a perfect fit for a Rube Goldberg style of trap based gameplay, while still being able to fully pull off the direct stabby stabby approach. I think Shaco is exactly the kind of... thing who would spend It's time to create and set up elaborate death traps and watch the ensuing chaos as would be heroes fall into them.

I think a new trap based champion would be a real hard sell. Riot already has so many champions who use traps. I think the only way for a trap focused champion to be fully realized is if they take someone else's place. Shaco, in my opinion, is the perfect champion to become the trap master of LoL.

Winterkill1 votes

I really like Shaco's concept but Riot hasn't done enough to make me fall in love with him. I like the back stabbing mechanic and his clownbox, but I hate his new ULT. It was fine before with just a clone but having those useless clownboxes that spawn after is not useful. The boxes are hit and miss if you ask me. Riot has an amazing theme and really cool ideas to play with but they don't. They work on Ryze four times.

I do like that juggling knives though. How about having that as his new E but the damage and usefulness scales as he uses it? The first one does a slow, the second one poisons, and the third dagger does more damage to enemies with low health. Shaco.can choosd to use what dagger he wants on what target in ganks and teamfights. Idk kind of cool passive you created.

Gildarzt1 votes

I think is op actually :P I like it all except R, you remove his clone T.T

SSmotzer1 votes

It's still there, just on his E and only controllable while the fun house is rockin'.

Testlolla1 votes

I actually really like Shaco's original ult, we should just keep his same ult but with a little twist. When Shaco's clone explode, it deal little magic damage but apply an explosion of Hallucination Gas. Imagine move his clone into the middle of a team fight, HAHAHAHAHa.

I was thinking of changing Shaco's passive too. It will not inform the enemy champion when Shaco died.

iLBGAMing1 votes

I really liked your ideas, not sure about the mimed walls though. But I liked the Hallucination ability, and I felt it would be cool if all enemies hallucinated different things; so one seeing multiple shaco's attacking them, others seeing their allies run toward enemies idk random things and I kinda would love the idea of this hallucination making everyone see random things.

HonorableFool1 votes

The Ult seems to be flooded with stats/debuffs,the disappearing and exploding into a cloud of gas with clone of shaco is enough. Also switch his e and q because his current q is similar to this e.

SSmotzer1 votes

Yeah, there is some ironing out to do, but Shaco's skill shot should be on his Q and his blink should be on his E.

Testlolla1 votes

For Shaco's q, the enemy has been affected by Hallucination shouldn't be able to see for 0.5 seconds, so he won't know which one is the true shaco.

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