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[Ability Concept] Fiddlesticks passive "Always Watching"

SSmotzer··78 votes·7,397 views

CONFIRMED FOR 6.10?

Fiddlesticks gets a unique trinket item, a Scarecrow. The Scarecrow acts as a visible ward with two hits and Fiddlesticks can place up too three of them across the map along with normal wards.

Fiddlesticks can upgrade the Scarecrow one of three ways; Paranoia, Dread and Murder.

The Paranoia upgrade causes enemy champions to become Feared for 1 second upon seeing the Scarecrow while being near the Scarecrow.

The Dread upgrade causes enemy champions to fill with Dread, which lowers their magic resist by 5 for 2.5 seconds while they are around the Scarecrow and this does stack with other near by Scarecrows.

The Murder upgrade causes a crow to burst from the Scarecrow when it breaks, silencing the nearest enemy champion for 1.25 seconds.

Fiddlesticks new passive "Always Watching": When Fiddlesticks remains motionless for 5 seconds, he appears as one of his Scarecrows and gains their upgraded effects as if he was a Scarecrow. Fiddlesticks can channel his ult while disguised but he will still shake and glow.

On the technical side of things, Fiddlesticks needs no added animations, only a generic Scarecrow model. He already does the "T pose" for his Drain, so he would simply do that, remain motionless and poof, turn into the Scarecrow model.

On a side note, imagine "One For All" 20 scarecrows appear in the enemy base, they have no idea which ones are Fiddlesticks.

Also, should the name be "Always Watching" Or "Fearmonger"? I was afraid some people wouldn't know what that means, so I want with something more people would understand.

101 Comments

Jingerbeardman10 votes

I like this, it still needs some iteration work but it is fun an unique.

Auroramancer3 votes

I like the idea, except for the effects.

I think what would be more appropriate is to have them just be like a visible mandrake-ward, pinging on the map when an enemy is spotted by it.

For when Fiddle stands still to look like one, he should fear targets around him for 0.5 seconds after he starts moving again. Just to give people that OH SHIT feel when they think they are destroying one of his scarecrows.

SSmotzer2 votes

Well, the reason I gave the Scarecrows different abilities is because Riot doesn't like there being only 1 build patch for an item. They are all about giving a player choices in everything they do now, so I figured I would do what Riot is doing.

Auroramancer1 votes

Yeah I get what you were going for but the effects that you had listed were the ones I didn't like. I really would not tie hard-cc to them, but give them better utility effects that don't necessarily give Fiddlesticks more burst potential.

SSmotzer1 votes

Well, it would be hard to utilize these in a fight. Like other wards, they would most likely have a start up time, meaning a quick shot from an adc or a tank getting close enough to tank it would be quite easy. There are a lot of detailed things that could easily help balance the CC from the scarecrows. Range being a big factor. Just being far enough away from it and seeing it for Paranoia or breaking it for the others is an easy way to deal with it, making Blue Trinkets a strong counter, giving you more space between you and the Scarecrow.

Auroramancer1 votes

The Paranoia upgrade causes enemy champions to become Feared for 1 second upon seeing the Scarecrow, this can only effect an enemy champion once per Scarecrow.

The main thing is, what is the range of the fear? "On sight" would probably be based on "champion visual sight range", but most players don't innately know that range. What would prevent the Fiddle player from placing a scarecrow in the middle of a fight for another on-demand terrify? The "arm time" isn't very significant when you're chasing down a Fiddle. Ignore the scarecrow to continue chasing Fiddle but get terrified by the scarecrow, or focus the scarecrow to possibly stop the terrify but lose Fiddle in the process.

Just being far enough away from it and seeing it for Paranoia

What do you mean by this? Blue trinkets a strong counter? Players shouldn't have their trinket choice dictated by one aspect of one champion's kit.

The Dread upgrade causes enemy champions to fill with Dread, which lowers their magic resist by 5 for 2.5 seconds while they are around the Scarecrow and this does stack with other near by Scarecrows.

This could be good, if you remove the stack mechanism.

The Murder upgrade causes a crow to burst from the Scarecrow when it breaks, silencing the nearest enemy champion for 1.25 seconds.

There should never be an option that punishes counterplay.

SSmotzer1 votes

Ok, Imagine that the Scarecrow acts like Fiddles. If you're in it's cast range, it will fear you, if you are not in the cast range, it can't fear you but it's effect will still pop, meaning it wouldn't fear at all.

Trinkets are chosen based on aspects of kits all the time. Everyone gets pink trinkets when against Eve, or get Red Trinkets against Teemo or Shaco. That's why Trinkets are made to be interchangeable to deal with any number of specific situations. I mean Caits usually take blue so they can snipe better.

I like the stacking mechanism. It let's Fiddles build a little field of Scarecrows that help him hold lanes or to take objectives. Steering a team fight into 3 Dread Scarecrows could win team fights.

I'm not sure what you mean with the Murder thing. Fiddlesticks already has a powerful, multitarget silence. Adding a single, depowered version that Fiddles can activate after several seconds of sitting there, doing nothing or setting up Scarecrows isn't that impressive compared to his default silence. Sure, if you time it right, you can squeeze an extra second out of his silence, making it 2 seconds, which is still the second shortest silence in the game.

Auroramancer1 votes

Ok, Imagine that the Scarecrow acts like Fiddles. If you're in it's cast range, it will fear you, if you are not in the cast range, it can't fear you but it's effect will still pop, meaning it wouldn't fear at all.

Then being range is the only way to avoid that? That's really not too fair.

Trinkets are chosen based on aspects of kits all the time.

Yeah, stealth is much more common than fears in the game. Trinkets are currently here to help you deal with vision control and stealth. We don't need another thing for trinkets to deal with, preventing scarecrow fears.

I like the stacking mechanism. It let's Fiddles build a little field of Scarecrows that help him hold lanes or to take objectives. Steering a team fight into 3 Dread Scarecrows could win team fights.

It'd be pretty binary. Not having enough setup time would ruin it for Fiddle. Or it would be way too powerful if it is pulled off right. Think if GP's barrel chains stacked their damage. Would be way too powerful.

I'm not sure what you mean with the Murder thing. Fiddlesticks already has a powerful, multitarget silence.

I'm saying you shouldn't punish the player for destroying a scarecrow. Punishing counterplay is never really a good thing.

SSmotzer1 votes

No, a melee champion can still avoid it, by getting sight of it and being out of range of it. The fear pops instantly when you gain vision of it, even if you are out of range of it's effect, making the scarecrow no more than a ward after that.

I still do not see the big deal about the counter trinkets. I'm positive that is what they are for. Otherwise, why make one specifically to deal with specific aspects of other champions, like Teemo and Shaco?

Why would high damage armor ignoring aoes be the same as 5 points of MRR being 10, or 15 if Fiddles had the time, hell, he can even reduce up to 20....for 2 seconds. It caps at 4 though, considering that you can only have 3, plus Fiddles, so, in One For All, you can only lose up to 20 MR from the 60 second cool down wards that break in 2 hits or after some time.

Have you not heard of ward baiting before? It's a common strategy for Blitz and Lees. Ward baiting isn't new either, it's been around since we've had wards.

Also, how is being silenced for a second hurting you if you're alone in river just clearing out wards? The only time this would be important is if the ward was actually Fiddlesticks, the scarecrow breaks, they get silenced for 1 second, then Fiddles silences them again for a second second, It would almost be the third shortest silence in the game then.

Auroramancer1 votes

The fear pops instantly when you gain vision of it, even if you are out of range of it's effect

You really need to detail this out. How far away can you be when it's revealed and still be feared? Be specific.

I still do not see the big deal about the counter trinkets

Akali Evelynn Khazix Leblanc Rengar Shaco Talon Teemo Twitch Vayne All of these champions have a stealth component that trinkets help you deal with.

Fiddlesticks vs. just Fiddlesticks, buying a blue trinket to counter a fear effect...

We have trinkets to deal with ward control and stealth/invisible things. We don't need a 3rd thing to deal with.

Why would high damage armor ignoring aoes be the same as 5 points of MRR being 10, or 15 if Fiddles had the time, hell, he can even reduce up to 20....for 2 seconds

I wasn't even talking about the armor ignore of GP barrels, I was talking about how devastating barrel stacking would be when GP gets adequate time to set up. Given that they can't stack, they are balanced in a way.

Not to mention that the scarecrows debuff the MR of nearby enemies, so it benefits all of Fiddle's team, not just himself. The stacking is not needed.

Also, how is being silenced for a second hurting you if you're alone in river just clearing out wards?

So then why even have it? What even is the point of the silence if you're counting on people to be alone when hit by it?

The only time this would be important is if the ward was actually Fiddlesticks

Or how about when an enemy is nearby? Stopping a Flash or counterspells against a nearby enemy would be too good for Fiddle's team. The best case scenario for the silence mechanism on scarecrow destruction is too much.

SSmotzer1 votes

Ok, let's say that the vision range of a champion is 1200 units and the fear range is 575. This would mean, that if a fear ward was in the middle of a lane, it would always trigger it's fear before an enemy champion was in range, meaning nothing would happen. A melee champion would simply walk up to is a break it. But say it was in a bush and an enemy champion walked within 575 units of the bush to place a standard ward. Then the fear would trigger when they gain vision of the ward within 575 units.

E=Enemy Champion S=Scarecrow

  • =Vision

E - - - - - - S - - - - - - E= The fear would activate and the fear would be rendered useless. E - - - - S - - - -E=The fear would activate.

I could open MS Paint and draw you a picture if you still do not understand.

I'm not talking about stealth, I'm talking about traps. The red trinket has the unique ability to disable invisible traps, which only 2 champion's traps currently effect, Teemo's shrooms and Shaco's boxes. A specific ability that effects only 2 specific traps. Why the would they have an item that specifically counters 2 specific champions in this specific and major way?

....Fiddlesticks already reduces all enemies MR by 10, who are effected by any of his abilities. If he ults on the enemy team, then activates hourglass, he just reduced the MR of the entire enemy team by 10, helping his entire team and becoming invisible while dealing massive damage to the entire enemy team. You are complaining about a mechanic that is already in the game and it a lot easier to use than the scarecrows.

You aren't counting for that to happen, that is just what happens. Do you count on the enemy going into tri bush and clearing out your wards? No, but it happens. The silence is so Fiddles has an extra second to keep enemies from using CC on him, the only way to counter his drain, reliable or not, it will help.

....The best case scenario for any champion guarantees a pentakill. The best case for Yasuo is for there to be enough room and minions around to dodge everything thrown at him, block any CC with his wall and land his ult perfectly getting a pentakill in a single attack.

Saying something can be too good, doesn't always mean it will be. In fact, Riot always makes champions that have something about them that can be too good, and can win a game.

What's that? A champion that can literally prevent their entire team from dying in a team fight? That doesn't seem fair. Kindred

Auroramancer1 votes

Thanks for clarifying the vague terms of the terrify.

The red trinket has the unique ability to disable invisible traps

That's one feature of it. You don't buy Sweeper ONLY FOR traps. You buy it to clear wards and it gives the added benefit of revealing traps on occasion. Hell, it's a waste to use Sweeper just to scout for traps. You use it primarily for wards. It would also be a waste to use Farsight Orb for scouting scarecrows. You use it primarily for checking bushes for enemy champions.

Fiddlesticks already reduces all enemies MR by 10

So why give him more from his scarecrows???

Do you count on the enemy going into tri bush and clearing out your wards?

Yes...I do. That's why I position myself to be able to respond to any ward clearing, in a quick manner. I would love to have any enemies clearing my wards to be silenced when they kill it, it gives me an edge over them when I go to respond to it.

The best case scenario for any champion guarantees a pentakill

This is such a stupidly extrapolated point that it isn't worth an adequate response.

SSmotzer1 votes

And yet people always take red trinkets when laning against Teemo.

I gave it to him in the scarecrows, because this would remove that. I am not trying to remove anything from Fiddlesticks, only add to it. His current passive is Dread, which reduces his enemies MR. I am removing that as his passive and putting it on the Dread Scarecrow. Get it?

There you go. That is what it is meant for. but 1 second is a small window. Also, it's meant to be entirely practical but theatrical.

How so? Kindred, best case scenario, guarantees her team says alive in every team fight. Shaco, best case scenario, always has an exit after securing a kill. Tryndamere, best case scenario, always has time to get an ace when he's invincible.

Saying a single second long fear or silence that isn't all that reliable could some how turn Fiddlesticks into a game breaking monster doesn't make a lot of sense.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Hhm... I almost feel like the scarecrow wards should just be a new Q that works like TF's W for selection instead of having it be a trinket and have his new passive just be the turn into a scarecrow ward ability.

But I love the mind games this creates and it'll actually achieve the fantasy of Fiddlesticks current passive and idea much better with you getting a sense of dread when you see one of these wards. Is it actually Fiddle? Is it not and Fiddle is waiting nearby to ult onto me? Very nice idea.

SSmotzer5 votes

I wanted to create something to replace his utterly passive... passive. Fiddlesticks needed a gimmick, something that would make him stand out without changing his core mechanics. Fiddlesticks is still the same as he was, even down to having a passive that reduces magic resist, all I really gave him is a reason to be standing in a bush, waiting for the opportunity to Crowstorm and what do scarecrows do? They watch things, so let's give him a ward that'll let him watch things more. People always complain when they change a champion's ability or look or feel. This does none of that.

Sitnoil2 votes

I love the idea, it really makes it iconic and would bring some fun into Fiddlesticks.

The only issue I have with this is that Shaco's boxes become mediocre. I think this passive should actually be refreshed like Azir turrets, not as wards that can be stocked. This would of course only enable one of them to be placed every 4 minutes or so, but at least this could make them last longer. To be honest, a look-alike Fiddlesticks on map could become very troublesome, imagine having more than one and very often. (I also believe they should be hittable by abilities, for the reason I'll mention next.)

I would retain the "Teemo-like" passive where he looks like a scarecrow when he stops moving though, that'd be nice! Incidentally, this could maybe reduce the cast time of his R by 20-50%, meaning he could place fake Fiddlesticks in key spots that could force enemies to burn CC on them when he's actually on the other side, waiting patiently. :T

Since he has some kind of "undead" identity, maybe he could select a monster he is killing to become a scarecrow in his place, meaning the most important ones would be jungle camps over walls (like raptors) or the rift scuttler, if he manages to kill it in the river brush.

ChaosThief2 votes

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-17348-shut-up-and-take-my-upvote-gif-WNuJ.gif

DreamCrushed2 votes

Really. Really. Really. Cool. Really. Really. Really. Nightmare Fuel. This is an incredibly good idea. Personally, I'd say make the scarecrow invisible until proximity like Shaco box, and only have the fear variation. It's a phenomenal idea, nonetheless. Also you could combine this with other spells like a new Dark Wind that makes damage come out in an AoE around him, and the damage could come the Scarecrows as well. So many ideas!!! Good idea man.

charcharmunro1 votes

{quoted}

Really. Really. Really. Cool. Really. Really. Really. Nightmare Fuel. This is an incredibly good idea. Personally, I'd say make the scarecrow invisible until proximity like Shaco box, and only have the fear variation. It's a phenomenal idea, nonetheless. Also you could combine this with other spells like a new Dark Wind that makes damage come out in an AoE around him, and the damage could come the Scarecrows as well. So many ideas!!! Good idea man.

Making them invisible kinda... Kills the point. You're meant to play mind-games with them. Shaco sets up boxes where he thinks/knows you're going to go, or uses them to escape or do stupidly safe jungle-clears. Fiddle would use these... Basically for vision and to just have a more constant presence than "Maybe he's gonna ult from that wall". Also the point of a scarecrow is that you can see it.

DreamCrushed1 votes

I didn't mean permanently invisible, I just meant that a champion needs to be near it to see it, live Evelynn. Basically the point of my distinction was that a long range ward or a hawk shot couldn't see it, you need to be near it. Just my thought though. That way, when a champion stumbles upon one, the fear is caused by the reveal and makes more sense. The champion can still see it, a ward cannot.

Valaran Nara1 votes

That's...not even cool. Nightmare fuel.

SSmotzer9 votes

Is that not the point of Fiddlesticks?

Ixtali Empress1 votes

I don't feel like it fits in with his other abilities that well however it is a nice concept.

SSmotzer10 votes

I just figure that Fiddlesticks is suppose to be a simple scarecrow and when you least suspect it, it appears of no where and rips your soul from your chest.

I just think something like that should have a stealth aspect to it. lul your enemies into a false sense of security and when they go to break, what they think is just a ward, it comes to life and Crowstorms them to death.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

This would be toxic as hell.Like hey I placed a Scarecrow there and you can't come close or I will CC you. If it's placed in a brush he can just CC lock someone.

BTW does the CC/debuff get applied upon gaining vision or moving into a certain range? Maybe he should place somekind of Scarecrows that after placed pings danger upon an enemy (visible/stealth) comes close and glows red(even in the mini map)?

SSmotzer3 votes

the fear only applies when you see it the MR reduction is aoe, like Fiddlesticks current passive and the bird also can attack from the brush, if the scarecrow breaks, but it's range would be like Fiddles' Dark Wind. And you realize the trinkets have like a 60 second cool down. This is not something that can be spammed, and he can only have 3.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Again I ask.Does the fear apply when you gain sight of it or coming to a certain range of it? Still,too annoying/toxic.You basicly are saying if you know where it is and if u still havne't gotten to it,you cant because it will just CC you.

SSmotzer1 votes

Let's say, it's fear range is the same range from the Scarecrow as Fiddles fear, but if you can gain vision of it before you enter the range, it will not fear you, making blue trinkets a great counter for it.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Fiddle's Q range is 575,not many champs could clear it with AAs.Can it be destroyed with abilities?

SSmotzer2 votes

If you don't want to get feared by it, stand at least 576 units away, throw a trinket at it, then go smash it. If you can see it before you get to the range, you won't get feared.

Shadowkirby141 votes

A living scarecrow placing another scarecrow? I'm a bit bothered by that idea. For me, I always thought his glowing lantern would be best for wards, like any ward he uses will be converted into a lantern, increasing the vision radius when planted. If an enemy champion gets within the vision radius any longer than 1 second, it will blind them for 1.5 seconds and exposing the target's location to Fiddlesticks' team briefly. After that, the lantern will retreat back to Fiddlesticks.

The lantern will only appear in one ward out of three. For example; if you have item 2049, the first ward planted will be the lantern while the rest will be regular wards. Unlike the regular wards which lasts for 1-3 minutes, the lantern lasts for only 40 seconds before retreating, so it's best to use it wisely for incoming ganks.

Calling this passive: Ghoulish Lantern

SSmotzer4 votes

I get it, but isn't there another ghoulish champion with a lantern that is more deserving of this kind of thing? I don't know, a ghouls champion who's central theme is a spooky lantern.... cough Thresh cough

bddesu1 votes

So would he upgrade each scarecrow individually, or a one-time upgrade for all of them? Or would it act more like switching between trinkets?

SSmotzer5 votes

Like switching between trinkets. If you have a scarecrow already placed, then upgrade, it will not effect the scarecrows already placed.

bddesu1 votes

Hmm. Alright. So what would happen if someone attacked him in Scarecrow form?

SSmotzer1 votes

He would take the damage from the attack, but his disguise wouldn't break till he moves, attacks or takes a second hit.

LordForrest1 votes

I am in love with this. LET THE MIND GAMES COMMENCE!

SSmotzer4 votes

http://www.collegewhoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/games.gif

ChromeFluxx1 votes

inserts monsters inc. reference ALWAYS WATCHING MIKE MAZOWSKI. ALWAYS WATCHING.

SSmotzer2 votes

That's why I was gonna name it "Fearmonger"

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8o5gcgJAe1qa4w2fo1_500.gif

Icecrest1 votes

Now, I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but the idea seems kind of like Viktor's Augments... I love the idea and I think it would put fiddle a bit more onto the map as far as champ select goes, but the upgrading for effect part seems edgy. Other than that, excellent idea!

SSmotzer1 votes

Yeah, but Riot like to make the trinkets worth while and worth upgrading. So I figure, Fiddles should have a reason too.

Filthy Wook1 votes

I love this idea personally, but i feel that he would become a support if they provided a lot of vision... how much vision would they provide? like a teemo shroom or like a ward?

SSmotzer1 votes

In between.

SSmotzer1 votes

Any tips, questions or suggestions? And art is always welcome.

SamShazzam1 votes

For the 5 second passive, he gets the two bars of health, as do the scarecrows, and when broken he should get stunned as a punish for not acting. Or, if you want to balance it the other way, where he is 'rewarded' instead, he fears all nearby enemies when his statue form is broken. I like this main idea you have going. It really suits Fidd's character, and as a previous Fidd main, I would like to see him get a cool new update.

SSmotzer1 votes

I would say he doesn't get the two free hits, 1 hit will bring hit out of his camouflage and damage him normally. And, with the Fiddles change that greatly increases his movement speed after Fiddles stands still for 1.5 seconds, I'd say this could be even more fun.

SSmotzer1 votes

Hmm.... hmmm....

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