I think i have seen you before trying to do something similar and i as someone who has a radically different view on what irelia is and should be (thematic wise) compared to you i guess i can take a shot at it.
I should probably post that this will go onto a lot of topics which i think are important to discussing irelia or any other bruiser so let's start by getting that out of the way. I will bold the important parts for those that don't like reading (what are you guys doing on a text based forum anyway?).
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The title pretty much sums up what im trying to do. This will be a full gameplay and thematic rework to make irelia the best addition to league she can possible be.
Not sure if i agree a full rework is needed and i honestly believe there are higher priority targets than her if we are talking about larger reworks. And by higher priorities i mean things including almost any top lane bruiser including jax, darius and many others. To me irelia is a case of the "ball of stats" that riot likes to put it which to me means a combination of the problem that people can build so tanky in lane that they ignore each other aka "the wet noodle fight" and that top lane is not a melee only lane.
Now the last problem does not seem very big at all but it carries some restrictions on how kits can be. All other lanes the champions have ways to farm from range (even for melee champions like zed) and those that don't survive lane by either the threat of bursting the opponent (akali) or being able to take a trade and get safely out (fizz). So if we want to rework irelia's abilities she either needs to keep her threat of all inning an opponent, give her a way to farm from range (i have seen ideas to make her ult a basic ability, which if spamable she could use to farm), or give her a way to safely disengage after a trade (this would mean either make her dash able to target the ground or giving her an extra dash and i frankly don't think either fits her).
from the community i would like to know
- What makes irelia special compared to say..... someone like xin in terms of gameplay. What are your best highs and lows with the character (even if it includes 100 to 0ing someone in lane over and over) What fantasies has the community sold you on irelia's gameplay that you feel havent been met or could be better fullfilled (for example do you think she should be a 6 item carry or do you like her role as a mid to late game snowballer).
I have several highs for irelia the "healthy" one are being able to flash+stun a carry that is out of position and then kill them even if i am alone (bit of an assassin thing except they do it better), outplaying opponents by jumping around to minions to get away or dodge abilities (sure lots of mobility is bad but this is super gated and can be predicted). There are a few others but they are not major to me.
The biggest unhealthy high is probably her ability to jump an adc in a teamfight an play out like an unstoppable force that often takes a lot of cc to peel (rip this feeling with so many knockback and knockups). This comes purely from her passive tenacity and her sustain through ult and w.
- Do you think her stun (the comeback turn around lower percentile health single target nuke) should stay? is it core to her thematic as a comeback killer or do you think the ability is unhealthy enough to be replaced with another comeback mechanic.
Concerning teamfights and mid to late game:
I can understand it being unhealthy and having illogical counter play (not getting more % health than she has) but removing cc from dash bruisers (or any bruisers at all) is very hard. There are a few champions that functions like that and instead they are called "disruption tanks" (looking at you shyvana and mundo). If you wanna remove it she needs burst as a compensation (which means removing her on hit damage and reliance on aa since they no longer work as intended) or another hard cc since slows hardly does anything now that not having a dash on an adc is a weakness and having one is the norm.
Concerning laning phase:
Having a comeback mechanic is not a bad thing in it self and can in some cases punish opponents for sticking around in lane when you both are at low health much like an execute would. Comparing the two then the execute is good even if you are slightly higher health while comeback mechanics can often be used even if you are only slightly poled down.
If anything i would say that most melee champions could do good with a comeback mechanic in lane as it makes counters a bit less painful and in melee vs ranged lanes it ads the extra choice for the ranged champion if they should poke the melee champion down. On the other hand in lanes where you win the comeback mechanic gets less useful and thus giving the opponent the easier lane. In irelia's case i believe that having a comeback mechanic is what allows her to have the good laning phase she has in certain mathcups such as jayce, kennen, teemo, gnar and other ranged top laners (where she almost always gets a stun) without becoming obnoxious to weak laners like mundo, nasus, maplhite and other melee champions. The reason for this being that if she is playing against an other melee laner she cannot spam her low counter play move of stun+aa and walk away as the stun simply ceases to be a stun and without it her all in is a lot weaker.
- even if your uncomfortable with the idea the passive tenacity is leaving her kit. I find the passive powerful i love the passive but. others don't appreciate the power as the ability does not have much visual gratification.
This will probably go as it is one of those invisible powers that only irelia mains will realize exists. That being said i love utilizing it to go for the adc and absorb all the enemy teams cc only to die to my teammates like katarine or yi since there is no cc left. That being said i do think there is room to give her conditional tenacity like when her w is active or after she has used a certain skill so that she contains this fun part of her kit but reduce its effect on normal game play or in situations where she is caught out.
- Do you find her ultimate to be lackluster or very satisfying. Could it look and feel cooler if her theme were updated with it. Is tossing out single blades very baddass
This is actually the easiest way to distinguish a person who play irelia a lot from one who does not. (Sorry if the next part offends you) Generally if a player feels that her ult is bad it is because they do not realize how well it synergizes with spell blade and how much it heals for. Power wise it is very good thematic wise though i can see your point.
Thematic
- If I were to describe one thing about irelia's personality it would be the ionian comeback kit. How about you?
I think you are in the right direction but there is more to it. Irelia certainly has the lore for a comeback ability but maybe even more so for a stall wart defender of ionia and a military commander that while inexperienced rises to the occasion and grows stronger the better the foe is. If we are to translate her lore into a playstyle i would go with a relentless frontliner cutting trough anyone who dares oppose her (kinda similar to the role of a bruiser but one that dives and takes all the focus and still does not give up because old sion gives her a "cryptic gaze"). Her kit supports this by giving her tenacity which scales with enemy champions, giving her a comeback mechanic and the sustain needed for staying in the front line for a long time.
- Do you think her thematic as a blade magneto is well fleshed out or could use some additional aesthetic or baddasery
This right her. This is the main point we disagree on. When i look at irelia and her floating baldes i do not thing magneto or anything like it. I think she has a (perhaps magic) blade that is effectively an extension of herself. Heck i can see her serving tea in a tea ceremony with those. To me she does not consider the blades as weapons but just an extension of herself that just happens to be sharp. To further take away from the magneto theme she can only control those 4 blades or as described in her lore "her father's enormous blade". I can kinda see your point on the fate/stay night gilgamesh (i think was his name) but i have a hard time seeing her using another weapon and definitely not being careless with any weapon she has.
Tell me what you think and i can put a draft together by the end of the week. Not everyone will be happy with it. but it would be a fair competitive and thematically baddass irelia that we know and love.
i completely understand if some people see her a little more like this.
http://www.senpaigamer.com/sites/default/files/news/arcade/2014/03/17-guilty-gear-xrd-sign-4.jpg
I have not played enough guilty gear to be sure about this but even this is not something i agree with. The characters weapons are way too big and the feel i get from a quick 5 search does not show the refined yet hardened feel i think is important to irelia. Well i guess it is hard to come up with a good feel on text with a few lines but i hope the previous things i wrote will give you a feel on my take.
If you read to the end of this: Sorry for going on a rant but i have a hard time cutting this down without loosing things and do posts replies if you think i left something out or unclear.
