The problem with the olaf buff @ riot

Affinity2··28 votes·4,205 views

First of all let me state how happy I am that olaf is finally getting at least a second look

Second let me tell you how this is a terrible buff to olaf

I dont have the direct quote but to paraphrase Phreak on the current olaf he said something along the lines of "olaf is currently a peeler with opportunistic tendencies in teamfights due to the nature of the debuff on his ult and is still quite strong as a champion". To the credit of the balance team you probably came to the conclusion that this playpattern is healthy and therefore

Ragnarok [R] - Now gains a 50/60/70% Movement Speed bonus towards enemies for 1 second.

This is what we get.

To assess whether or not this is a buff in the best interest of olaf players i think noting all of the benefits along with the costs is important (costs being what the opponent has to deal with and what other potentially "fun" "interesting" or "competitive" buffs we could get

PROS -"competitive" straight up buff. olaf now has an easier time reaching targets reducing the frustration of the olaf player and giving him "options". (note champions like lulu and irelia also have strong options)

-Adds another dynamic the to berserker theme and has overall strong thematic tie in to gameplay "im pissed and fucking strong so im gonna run at you Fast and you better be skerd because im red and a fucking viking"

(thats pretty much all of the realistic FOR the buff logic i can muster like really there is nothing else Maybe i can seperate out "its a buff" and "olaf player has a less frustrating time reaching shit" but its pretty much the same topic)

CONS there is honestly such a huge list of shit for why this is a awful buff. I know that alot of other champs get the same kind of treatment like "the players dont want this buff because they want a batshit op buff and they are never satisfied with any minor QOL buff" Let me be clear (obama jokes) Im saying this buff is retarded and unfun for the opponent and should definitely not go through

-Olaf has an unfun matchup for his melee opponents (e spam low counterplay high value trades) (sustain on W if both players are at equal and if not wave auto pushes and olaf can farm under tower) This only EXACERBATES HIS HIT ONE Q AND I KILL YOU WITH BETTER STATS AT LEVEL 6 PLAYPATTERN

-The buff is highly effective at level 6 and doesnt really pick up steam later in the game. in other words the late game feeling of powerlessness wont be fixed by this buff.

-This buff removes any opportunity for other fun (for both players) or interesting mechanics to fit into his power budget (i have a couple good ideas here to fix his vs melee toxicity)

-the buff feels wasted when on top of an opponent especially given his his very frequent MOVEMENT STOPS on q e and autos (aka all of his damage sources) making it "not as mechanically fun feeling to the olaf player as it is frustrating to the opponent"

Conclusion

I would love to talk about other buffs but frankly the current PBE one being tested doesnt cut it for me. It seems lazy and obvious

How about some jax or kallista style buffs? make his auto attack swing time scale better with attack speed so it doesnt feel like crap to AA when you have 2 MASSIVE ATTACK SPEED BUFFS

How about making his E apply on hit affects so he gets minion agro when he lanes against melee opponents and gets lifesteal and other fun scaling effects as the game goes on?

Like anything would be more creative than this!

Thanks,

PS: Obviously some of this is very hyperbolic but at the same time its all based off factual observation and riot game design philosophy please upvote so we can get a comment from meddler or the riot balance team

TLDR the buff could be something better

Edit: For all the support heres a olaf fanart picture (Disclaimer not me and i dont know who drew it)

32 Comments

Laughing Fish6 votes

Really? I thought the buff would help. The only problem I have with Olaf is how hard it is to reach someone when using your ult. This should help.

Affinity24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QQjoc5P,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-05-07T16:04:15.242+0000)

Really? I thought the buff would help. The only problem I have with Olaf is how hard it is to reach someone when using your ult. This should help.

Im actually ok with him having 0 hard cc and 0 mobility boosts. i felt like it sort of defined him to a certain extent.

it most certainly does help. its a raw buff. the question is does it help him the right way or is he gonna be nerfed in a couple months because he can snowball games from 1 to 9 so hard that there is no reason not to pick him

Baron of Bread7 votes

You know who else was defined by no hard cc or mobility?

Mordekaiser item 3070 before he got the W change.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

He still can't really use his W to chase.

Baron of Bread4 votes

Unless he has a buddy who can stick to the enemy. Outside of that circumstance there is no way he can chase.

terkmc2 votes

Mordekaiser Tanky super heavy DPS and can burst Gain defensive as he gets damage item Free melee harrass, unfun for melee champion Anti Carry No cc no mobility Drain tank Snowball hard as shit High one man army potential

Holyshit Morde and Olaf is the same champion, no wonder both of them got Olaf'ed

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Mordekaiser'ed is going to be the new term.

Ardond2 votes

why are you building tear on mord?

Baron of Bread2 votes

:|

NorthernDruid5 votes

I like the buff, it looks like it'll give more power and benefit to activate his ult early in an engagement instead of after you get CC'd, tagging this to reach opponents instead of Ghost/Youmuu's.

Other than that though, it's not really the most exiting thing ever, mostly because of the wealth of other movespeed buffs out there to tag alongside your ult (summoner 6 item 3142 item 3800) if you feel like you need it.

I feel like if Olaf lacks any sort of mobility, it's a dash of some sort, whether it be moving to an axe quickly or a component of a reworked E or what have you. But outside of reworking his Q or E to something really different (or even attaching something weird to his W, like being able to dash to axes when W is active) there's no good space in his kit for a dash.

shrug idk how he performs really, I don't play much pvp (nor play Olaf outside the jungle for that matter).

junglerboy164 votes

I'm glad at least one of the people who doesn't like this buff actually put in the time to lay it out thoroughly.

Ariaflux3 votes

Wow, never thought someone would think the same way as me on this. I always thought that Olaf's ultimate was balanced by the fact that it does not give a movement speed boost, for the same reason why his passive arm/res are removed upon activation, and helps to keep it in the game unlike Poppy's R.

I agree with OP that Olaf should be buffed in some other ways.

Kingsgrave3 votes

[deleted]

Affinity24 votes

{quoted}

Oh no they buffed a melee what were they thinking!?

Every single time they buff a melee that needed the buff people like you just bitch and moan. Its getting really old.

your name has cynical in it and u call me cynical? lol.....

no i dont bitch and moan every time a melee gets a buff. I loved the jax swing buff and the buff to his ult. most of my champions are melee though i try to play every champ proficiently

Im literally pointing out that the buff is not in good taste and wont promote the long term health of olaf. (which is what im concerned about atm because riot has shown that they dont want to do another rework of olaf and want to salvage smashgizmos rework)

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

your name has cynical in it and u call me cynical? lol.....

no i dont bitch and moan every time a melee gets a buff. I loved the jax swing buff and the buff to his ult. most of my champions are melee though i try to play every champ proficiently

Im literally pointing out that the buff is not in good taste and wont promote the long term health of olaf. (which is what im concerned about atm because riot has shown that they dont want to do another rework of olaf and want to salvage smashgizmos rework)

I didn't call you cynical. You are being a whiny bitch because you are afraid of change, not really cynical.

Affinity24 votes

{quoted}

I didn't call you cynical. You are being a whiny bitch because you are afraid of change, not really cynical.

did you not read the post?

do you know of olafs nerf history?

how long have you been playing the game?

If you had good answers to any of those questions i doubt you would be calling me "afraid of change" or some other arbitrary argument like that. tell me why its a quality buff dont try to pick apart me like that has any sort of relevance to the conversation lol.

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

did you not read the post?

do you know of olafs nerf history?

how long have you been playing the game?

If you had good answers to any of those questions i doubt you would be calling me "afraid of change" or some other arbitrary argument like that. tell me why its a quality buff dont try to pick apart me like that has any sort of relevance to the conversation lol.

Read the post.

Know of Olaf's nerf history.

Been playing since the start of S2.

rekt kid git gud

ZPIN2WIN3 votes

BUT WHERE IS THE PICTURE THO

Affinity22 votes

much appreciated just takes time to type sometimes. Ill probably enjoy playing the buff on live but that doesnt make it good. still doesnt address his major playpattern issues like tossing a q past your opponent for longer slow times and how they eliminated the interesting play with his q

AFK Push2 votes

Looking at this ult buff, Olaf's ult is starting to look like a bad Sion ult, with some ad added on top.

The Loveless2 votes

he can't be slowed, I'll take the buff, not like it hurts

Affinity21 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QQjoc5P,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-05-07T23:44:10.696+0000)

he can't be slowed, I'll take the buff, not like it hurts

If he gets nerfed later yea it does..... if theres a better buff idea that makes him more fun to play then yea.

this buff can hurt and i believe it will hurt.

I know meddler saw this thread too without a doubt he didnt comment on it though the riven thread he posted o is below this one

VeryGreen2 votes

Well they dont want Olaf to be the power house he used to be. It was so toxic tbh

LilxPaprika1 votes

Riot needs to look at items to balance bruisers imo. Sure fixing kits is important too. bruisers with attack speed steroids could have their own mini crits. I miss league of bruisers :( season 2ish with wriggles lantern being built on nearly every champ XD. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FKazxyxF-bruiser-crit-modifier-crit-base-damage-on-select-items

Svddenly1 votes

What Olaf really needs is a rework. Not changing his abilities much (except maybe W) but he needs to have rage. He's the Berserker ffs. He only has one "meaningful" mana cost anyway (his Q).

Affinity21 votes

I agree with a rework but it is a bit extreme. I wonder what they have planned for olaf if anything.

I want to know if the balance team has tested anything else internally

CISTERN1 votes

Olaf's raw stats are k, to overpower his opponents at laning phase because he is a shitty teamfigher at most occasions , I dont want more weaknesses at his kit (counterplay).Olaf already has low win ratio low pick ratio and low presence competitive with poor results.

You can't make a general kit for Olaf, olaf is a specialist because of his ultimate and this can't change easily OLAF NEEDS ABSOLUTE STRENGTHS(no counterplay there) AND ABSOLUTE WEAKNESSES(you cant do anything to make up for these weaknesses ), like every specialist champion

(sry for my English)

Affinity22 votes

{quoted}

Olaf's raw stats are k, to overpower his opponents at laning phase because he is a shitty teamfigher at most occasions , I dont want more weaknesses at his kit (counterplay).Olaf already has low win ratio low pick ratio and low presence competitive with poor results.

You can't make a general kit for Olaf, olaf is a specialist because of his ultimate and this can't change easily OLAF NEEDS ABSOLUTE STRENGTHS(no counterplay there) AND ABSOLUTE WEAKNESSES(you cant do anything to make up for these weaknesses ), like every specialist champion

(sry for my English)

10000% correct. your right in every single way. however..... olaf is lackluster compared to other champions in terms of a fun playpattern as he has pretty much 2 or 3. also hes clunky as fuck and needs work overall. like throwing q past an opponent for longer slow duration shouldnt be part of the decision making when using q for example.

His playpatter is jank and it needs some changes. I would touch that up before outright buffing that same playpattern. He is a shitty teamfighter. ok thats fine but its not like hes strong in any other area than wacking other melees in the face or having more stats than other champions in the early game

Im not saying make hi a generalist at all. I never used the words olaf has alot of other problems that make him from being unviable. or, olaf needs to be stronger here because it sucks

your confusing my goals with other GD retards who say "olaf is weak" or some other shit

CISTERN1 votes

{quoted}

10000% correct. your right in every single way. however..... olaf is lackluster compared to other champions in terms of a fun playpattern as he has pretty much 2 or 3. also hes clunky as fuck and needs work overall. like throwing q past an opponent for longer slow duration shouldnt be part of the decision making when using q for example.

His playpatter is jank and it needs some changes. I would touch that up before outright buffing that same playpattern. He is a shitty teamfighter. ok thats fine but its not like hes strong in any other area than wacking other melees in the face or having more stats than other champions in the early game

Im not saying make hi a generalist at all. I never used the words olaf has alot of other problems that make him from being unviable. or, olaf needs to be stronger here because it sucks

your confusing my goals with other GD retards who say "olaf is weak" or some other shit

The buff at his ultimate is a waste (my opinion), because when you play olaf, the cast timers consuming 0.5 seconds of your time (q 0.25 cast time, e 0,25 cast time), if Riot increase the duration at 2 seconds we have a new problem, olaf gains a free indirect gapcloser.

Yeah, I believe they could buff or rework other areas of his kit΄, like w or q, the only part i disagree with you is that I don't give a fuck about the frustration of my opponents because I play specialists, specialist don't have counterplay at their strong areas

       and something irrelevant with this post:

Anyway, Riot hates specialists if they are competitive viable(my opinion), because they don't have counterplay at their strong areas of their kit. This is the reason we don't have strategic diversity at picks

(pls delete my post if my english are embarrassing)

Affinity21 votes

{quoted}

The buff at his ultimate is a waste (my opinion), because when you play olaf, the cast timers consuming 0.5 seconds of your time (q 0.25 cast time, e 0,25 cast time), if Riot increase the duration at 2 seconds we have a new problem, olaf gains a free indirect gapcloser.

Yeah, I believe they could buff or rework other areas of his kit΄, like w or q

       (and something irrelevant with this post)

Anyway, Riot hates specialists if they are competitive viable(my opinion), because they don't have counterplay at their strong areas of their kit. This is the reason we don't have strategic diversity at picks

(pls delete my post if my english are embarrassing)

Its bad if you are close to them (midrange) already.

If you were playing olaf right before anyway you could usually close the gap or get in midrange after 2 axes.

now you just hit an axe and your opponent dies. Its pretty bull

CISTERN1 votes

{quoted}

Its bad if you are close to them (midrange) already.

If you were playing olaf right before anyway you could usually close the gap or get in midrange after 2 axes.

now you just hit an axe and your opponent dies. Its pretty bull

Then this buff is one indirect gap closer?If yes, that will break him

Troy2426211 votes

I don't know, the ultimate change would really make him that berserker he should be. Lets him actually charge into battle, rather than awkwardly waddle while being kited. At the same time, it won't double as an escape, so it is constrained to an offensive, aggressive buff, right in like with a berserker.

I mean, your charges take him entirely out of the Jungle role, which is where he was designed to excel. I like Olaf, and I'd like to be able to jungle him. But, his ganks suck, his clears are okay but his scaling is meh. This would also serve to solidify his role in end game fights. An opportunist peeler.

More from Gameplay

More by Affinity2