The removal of Kayle's armor makes sense. (Sort of)

King Braum··6 votes·2,334 views

Now, to start things off, please do hear me out.

I love, Kayle's pre-rework design, it's one of my favorite design's in the game and for me personally unmasked kayle is the closest thing I can have for a perfect Default Skin. So now you may be wondering then, why defend this change to Kayle and it's for quite a simple reason.

It's because from a designer's point of view, it makes perfect sense.

We actually have a tweet by Spideraxe that gives a bit more insight at this. https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1097663801627947008

For new players, getting into a game against a champion you dont know, visuals may be your only aid to figuring out how a champion works and this works quite simple, most of us do it quite regularly with new champions too.

If they have a ranged weapon, they're most likely a carry, Anyone with a spellbook or magic particles is probably going to itemize into AP A lean looking character with a smaller weapon is most likely an assassin And someone in a massive suit of armor is most likely a tank.

Kayle's current design, while fitting for her personality and lore, Clashes with her role in game and could potentially cause confusion. So the design was changed. And this isn't to say her new design is particularly good or bad, but at least it may give some insight on what Riot was thinking when they redesigned Kayle like this.

Though in my personal opinion they could have simply gone with a smaller armor set instead of removing most of it, such as in the popular redesign that has been floating around lately. https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FDzvlYRjVYAIAUnz.png%3Alarge&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425&height=800 Though that is only my opinion.

25 Comments

DrCyanide8 votes

The rule is broken in enough places I don't see why it should be changed in this case.

Azir Zed Kayle are armored Carries. Sejuani Shen Gragas Amumu are unarmored/lightly armored Tanks.

King Braum1 votes

I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm simply highlighting as to why Riot could have made this change and why it makes sense from a designer standpoint as even some Rioter's agree that champions such as Shen have a bad design that clash with their role in the game.

Samuel Murphy1 votes

Gragas is big so even without armor looks tanky (like Sion) Amumu is really old Sejuani is on a big beast

Shen, Yeah you right.

Warlord Rhinark7 votes

I understand the reasoning, and you make a pretty decent point.

But come on man.

It's not like putting Kayle in less armor is suddenly going to help new players just starting out by a large margin.

If Riot really stands by this reasoning, why do they even bother making skins like Marauder Ashe or Warden Sivir, which puts carries in heavy armor?

Or are skins exempt from this rule?

Deliberate Inter1 votes

It isn't just an indicator for new players, it's a conveyance thing. Also, I thought shen was a melee carry because he was a little islander guy with a katana

Kazekiba1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:49:42.645+0000)

It isn't just an indicator for new players, it's a conveyance thing. Also, I thought shen was a melee carry because he was a little islander guy with a katana

What do you mean he's not a tank? I mean that's what a ninja is right. Someone who takes a ton of damage for his allies and slowly wears you down while his buddies shoot you to death.

Deliberate Inter1 votes

Could be, ninja wasn't a real word so make something up and run with it I guess

Kazekiba1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:13:51.149+0000)

Could be, ninja wasn't a real word so make something up and run with it I guess

Absolutely wrong. Ninjas were peasants who practiced swordsmanship in secret to overthrow the Samurai ruling class that was abusing them, and grew from there into an art of assassination, basically spies. Guerilla warfare and espionage, not front-line face to face combat. Because they would have never stood a chance against trained, wealthy swordsmen who not only have decades of experience but very tough armor. Ninja isnt a made up word, it's well over a thousand years old.

Deliberate Inter1 votes

Shinobi were scouts and many modern day weebs thought shinobi were ninjas. It was really the farmers who developed martial skills in secret but they never called themselves ninja. They used farming tool like the kama and quarterstaffs, tonfa and other makeshift weapons because the shogunate wouldn't allow them to legally own weapons of any kind. :)

Deliberate Inter1 votes

Shinobi were scouts and many modern day weebs thought shinobi were ninjas. It was really the farmers who developed martial skills in secret but they never called themselves ninja. They used farming tool like the kama and quarterstaffs, tonfa and other makeshift weapons because the shogunate wouldn't allow them to legally own weapons of any kind. :)

Ninjutsu or Ninpo was marketed as survival techniques that come from japan but really didn't even exist as a brand until the 1900s and the techniques were romanticized and Americanized. You've been had.

Daddy ReTaric3 votes

Current iteration fan made is 10x better than Riot current design. However the color should go back to gold/red/white.. purple and blue doesn't give justice to Kayle.

King Braum1 votes

I agree, she actually looks weirdly demacian now.

Daddy ReTaric1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-19T16:01:37.203+0000)

I agree, she actually looks weirdly demacian now.

Way to much. She is an angel, not a demacian.

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T16:02:21.100+0000)

Way to much. She is an angel, not a demacian.

She is placed in Demacia on the official Map of Runeterra though.

Oleandervine2 votes

That's the most bullshit excuse I've ever heard. Tham Kench isn't weating platemail, yet he's a tank. Gragas is barely clothed, yet he's supposed to be a durable AP juggernaut. Garen is wearing full armor, yet he's a bruiser, and not a tank. Amumu isn't wearing any armor, he's a corpse wrapped in toilet paper, yet he's a tank. The whole "she's not wearing armor because she's a carry" is such utter bullshit.

King Braum1 votes

{quoted}

That's the most bullshit excuse I've ever heard. Tham Kench isn't weating platemail, yet he's a tank. Gragas is barely clothed, yet he's supposed to be a durable AP juggernaut. Garen is wearing full armor, yet he's a bruiser, and not a tank. Amumu isn't wearing any armor, he's a corpse wrapped in toilet paper, yet he's a tank. The whole "she's not wearing armor because she's a carry" is such utter bullshit.

Tahm Kench and Gragas are two massive champions, same goes for Sion. Garen carries a massive sword, same goes for Darius.

All of these things help portray a character's role in the game. The issue with Kayle is that she looked like a tank comparable to Leona given the size of the armor which is seemingly why Riot removed it from her design, as to not make visuals and gameplay clash.

Oleandervine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:05:05.677+0000)

Tahm Kench and Gragas are two massive champions, same goes for Sion. Garen carries a massive sword, same goes for Darius.

All of these things help portray a character's role in the game. The issue with Kayle is that she looked like a tank comparable to Leona given the size of the armor which is seemingly why Riot removed it from her design, as to not make visuals and gameplay clash.

Gragas isn't a tank, and being a fat man with a beer keg doesn't convey "I'm a mage juggernaut." Garen, by all accounts, matches every example of what you'd consider the token tank character, yet he's not. Their looks CAN help portray their role in the game, but there are too many instances where it doesn't, and Riot is backing themselves into a corner if they're going to use that reasoning for future design. You lose out on a lot of really innovative or neat character ideas or concepts if you go with stereotypical role/design looks, and it's one of the reasons why Shen is kind of interesting as a character.

Kazekiba1 votes

Garen is a Juggernaut, a subclass of the Tank archetype. So yes, he's a tank. He even gets around 1000 gold in resists for farming.

Kench isn't just an Absolute Unit, he's also wearing TWO coats. He's bulletproof [slayer-jinx-wink]

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is a Juggernaut, a subclass of the Tank archetype. So yes, he's a tank. He even gets around 1000 gold in resists for farming.

Kench isn't just an Absolute Unit, he's also wearing TWO coats. He's bulletproof [slayer-jinx-wink]

You are quite wrong: https://imgur.com/a/IFjPU0m Tanks are broken into Wardens and Vanguards. Fighters are broken into Juggernauts and Divers. Garen is a Juggernaut, which is in the fighter class. This is indicative because he has no CC to speak of in his kit, which is what Tanks are defined by since their task is to control the front lines of a fight with CC.

Chad Champion1 votes

I disagree with the visual aid thing. Unless if the champion has a weapon that dedicates if they are ranged or melee, most new players don't know what to buy their champions. AD Annie

Jaspers1 votes

I mean sure, it would make sense in a fighting game where the characters take up most of the screen. Looking at Tekken, you know Jack is going to be a hard hitting, simple combo guy, while Xaioyu is a small chinese girl, quick and agile, chipping away at your HP. The common pattern in Tekken is those with bigger models are that, slower harder hitting or smaller, quick but weaker. The bigger have more telegraphed attacks so easier to avoid while fighting against those who are smaller it pays to block and counter instead.

And yet, there is Lars, armoured up yet is doing back flips and air combo like nothing, Alisa, a robot who hits hard but is in the form of a young woman and Bob, a fat guy who's whole thing is "Speed and WEIIIGHT!!"

In league, we have an isometic view where the champs are tiny in comparison in confusing fights. Yas and Trynd are fighters encouraged to build crit, Galio is apparently a skyscraper tall statue encouraged to build AP, Poppy is a small fae creature but is building as a tank and Sylas is a half naked smacking people with chains and getting in their faces and is building AP, not AD/defence like other 'fighters'.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I understand the point though.

B3Prof1 votes

Kayle's redesign is terrible. Not just because of the lack of armor, although that is upsetting...it just looks terrible altogether. What on earth were they thinking.

Kazekiba1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:43:30.323+0000)

Anyone with a spellbook or magic particles is probably going to itemize into AP

I can't wait for the Katarina rework where she's visibly AP. I built armor against her the first few times I fought her because "hey shes throwing daggers at me, better get armor."

boricCentaur11 votes

Well riot that is very hypocritical coming from riot when they made a fucking ninja a TANK.

The Highest Noon1 votes

TBH I don't understand the complaints. What she has in the rework looks pretty protective for me considering she's a carry. It's like they want assassins in full plate mail or something lol

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