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[CCOS] September Results!

Sir ArmaMalum··6 votes·4,465 views

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Hey everyone! The volunteer judges have been looking over the awesome entries you submitted last month and I'm glad to say that the results have officially been declared! Now before I get to the good part I do want to make sure that credit is given where it's due and please give a thanks to our judges this month:

BowieTheNifty, Bearly Leah and Lenee!

They spent their time making sure you guys got scores and some good feedback to boot! If anyone of you have gotten their teeth into a good conversation on a concept you know how long it can be to look over a concept, so make sure to thank them when you get a chance!

But of course you're also here for another reason....

#The winner of the September CCOS is.....

#Nerberoth, The Conciliator by Showcase25! #With a total of 279/300 (93.0%). Congratulations!

#Runner-ups

|Place|-----------------------------Concept----------------------------------|------------Author-------------|---------Score-------- |- |2 | Norska, Curse Upon the South | Fury And Emperor | 268/300 (89.3%) | |2 | Atamun IV, Atlantean Magocrat | Raptamei | 268/300 (89.3%) | |3 | Jyun, The Stormcaller | SkrillRKnight | 267/300 (89.0%) | |5 | Imperia, The Spirit Waker | DarkFoxes | 261/300 (87.0%) |

#And YOU get something, and YOU get something!

Don't fret if you didn't make the leaderboards, you'll still be entered into the CCOS Official Archive as well as a good chance at getting some useful feedback to your concept from this month's judges.

Find your concept's feedback here! Steps to access:

  1. click link
  2. page 1 (Final Count) is a quick way to see all the scores, switch to Page 2 (Judging) by clicking the tab at the bottom. This is where the specific feedback is.
  3. be sure to scroll to the right to find the feedback for your concept. The spacing can get weird do don't be afraid to zoom out a bit to scroll more evenly!

Be sure to tell me of you have any trouble accessing the document, I'll be sure to help out as much as I can and can give you your score directly if needed.

#Next Month!

The October CCOS will be taking entries on the 24th, and entries will close on the 31st at noon EST sharp! Any concepts made within the monht of October are eligible! So you guys have plenty of time, but don't let that stop you from posting them now and getting some early feedback!

Always need judge volunteers as well. If you're at all interested in being a judge feel free to e-mail me at '[email protected]' to volunteer or just ask some questions. If you've judged before don't hesitate to give your two cents on the process as well!

Also, I have a twitter to hopefully help out finding these posts (trust me, I know how hard it can be at times). The account is @armamalum and I only use it for CCOS updates. Feel free to pop over to it if you're curious about how the CCOS is doing. I've been working to updating it more frequently (I'm still a twitter nub so give it some time)

73 Comments

RiotRiot Bearly Leah2 votes

Hey, everyone! One of the judges here -- if you have questions feel free to ask. Whether it be expanding on something, or our thought process behind grading. I can only speak for myself, but feel free to ask away!

Master of EVIL901 votes

Do have anything else you would like to talk about on Tridant?

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Is there anything in particular you'd like me to expand on? It's a little easier for me to answer a specific question rather than ramble on :P

Master of EVIL901 votes

anything that you think I should add/remove from his moveset? You kindof ended up being the only judge to see it after Arma helped me refine it.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

I'll go over it skill by skill (sorry for inc wall of text & possible grammar/spelling, writing this in a stream of consciousness):

Passive: I actually did some number crunching for this because stacking passive (like Draven's) can be extremely hard to balance, especially when they end up being used as a resource. Generally, you want to make sure that at level 6, you're on average getting enough stacks to cast your ult ~every 1 minute or so. This of course depends on the strength of the ult and how important it is to the kit, etc, etc. That being said having a death penalty for your passive stacks means that if you're behind in lane, you're staying behind in lane. Imagine the scenario where you're down 2 kills pre 6 and have to farm entirely under turret. Obviously, it's not the ideal scenario but you have to imagine all corner cases. If you're that behind you can't farm well, it also probably means you're not getting kills, which means you have to rely entirely on the gain over time. At level 6, that's 1 stack every 15 seconds, that's a hella long time to wait for your ult -- not to mention the fact that if you're really behind you may die again, losing more stacks. Obviously this is a worst case scenario, but the point is that it can be really frustrating when the nature of your kit prevents you from coming back in lane.

My suggestion: Instead of killing a monster consider doing something more like shyvanna or gnar, where you gain contract of war in combat/when attacking. This is going to take some number tweaking of course. Another idea is that maybe hitting your basic abilities grants you extra contracts of war. I'm all about that rewarding abilities life.

Q: Honestly I don't have much to say here. It's a pretty standard ability, and it looks fine. My only overall point is that you may actually want to give him a heal somewhere consider the fact that his abilities cost health. Maybe he could heal some amount based on where they're in the cone? (Side note: would be happy to get your opinion back on this one. He does already have a heal on his W shield as well, but that can be quite conditional, which is why I suggest one here as well.)

W: So I honestly thought that maybe this should be a current health rather than max health ability so I did some numbers and found the following:

Number crunch corner: (%Max health) At 3000 health, you lose 300 HP in order to get (assuming max ranks here) a 520 health shield. Considering 3 seconds, especially late game, the ADC probably won't have much trouble depleting that all. However, lets assume you get the best case scenario and magically take 519 damage in the 3 seconds. Again, assuming max rank, you would regain 80% of shield lost: 519*.8 = 415.2. That means you net gain (415.2 - 300 = ) 115.2 health from the shield. That's of course best case scenario. I have a feeling in most cases, you would just end up losing your shield.

(%Current health): You have 3000 health for continuity's sake. Obviously at full health, you'll get the numbers above. Let's look at a lower health though. Let's go with 300 HP left, since you can't use this ability from 300 HP given our example and %max health. At 300 HP, you get a 30 + 220 = 250 health shield. That's a lot lower than the 520, but you can at least use it at sub 300 health. If you take -- best case scenario again -- 249 health, you regain 249 *.8 = 199.2. Considering you only put in 30 health though, you actually net gain (199.2 - 30 = ) 169.2 health.

This is up to you. I suppose it depends on how you want it to be played. It's either going to be a cool comeback ability ( where you hope the enemy doesn't destroy the whole shield so you can heal a bunch, %current version), or a straight up in your face shield (where you sacrifice more HP, for less net health gain, but you get a larger in the moment shield, % max health version)

E: Looks like you already took my consideration for the stronger by shorter slow.

R: Looks fine I think? I already talked about my cost concerns in the passive and other than that, I think this may be okay. Only thing may be numbers, but if it doesn't look blatantly broken (which it doesn't) it usually comes down to flat out play testing.

Master of EVIL901 votes

Passive: I might add Contract generation on his W: gain a stack on single target damage (being either making him stronger or get brutalized for leaving him alone). I'd like to see what you think.

Q: Not such about a heal... already did Aatrox crazy on Karvia's healing potential. Let's see if you can talk me into it >:3

W: He's meant to be aggressive and last through extended fights, which means more shield. So, that solve that... hopefully.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Passive: Do the numbers is my next suggestion. That sounds like it could work

Q: Well, I could go over all the numbers and show that at 3000 health, your kit costs 600 health to cast, and with a best case scenario heal of 115.2 HP gain, casting your entire kit costs you 484.4. Best case scenario. That's a whole lot of health to lose in a team fight. But let's ignore that late game cost and look at something a little more scary: early game. Let's take level 3. You'll have at the very least 800 health, so we'll go with that number. Casting your Q costs you 40 health, okay, not bad. But what do you plan on sustaining with? What is this champion supposed to use for trading/poking if you're always in a deficit for regaining health. You don't get such a large heal at level 1 of your W. At the best case you lose 80 health for a 140 health shield, healing 40% you get maximum 55.6 health back. The point being here: Early game you can't trade. You take a massive health deficit of 40+ per ability. You don't even heal from your W early game. Look at champions who uses health as a resource, Mundo and Vlad come to mind. They both have guaranteed ways to heal, Mundo's passive (Q is conditional), Vlad's Q. Champions who use health as a resource have to have a way to gain it back in some type of guaranteed/consistent manner. Otherwise you might as well not use your abilities, because you'll hurt yourself more than you hurt the enemy.

You don't really have to do a heal on this ability. You could get health regen based on your contract stacks, or something. There's more definitely more than one way to go about this. My biggest point is that you don't (especially early), have a way to regain the health you expend, which puts you in a consistent deficit.

W: If that's your intent that's fine. But consider even more then what I was talking about for healing in the Q since you gain much less net health in the %max health version. :).

Master of EVIL901 votes

fine, fine, you managed to talk me into it. I'll do a somewhat-Darius like heal. 65% of damage dealt is my first number, balance at your pleasure. Thanks for the input though, I really do need it :3

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Anytime summoner 31

Master of EVIL901 votes

This is the longest balancing discussion I've done... Where have you been, damn you're useful... and kind :3

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Lurking in the shadows :P. I have judged before. I'm also quite busy with a lot of school things, so I more come along when I have the time :).

Thank you for that though! ^_^ Good to know my effort doesn't fall to deft ears

Axis the Dragon1 votes

Just a heads up - my Champion's melee (you erroneously assumed she was ranged). I do agree with your overall assessment, though.

Master of EVIL901 votes

Guess not that many people know how league units work.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Will confirm, units are not well known. I usually try to have a small section of comparisons to live abilities if units are a big factor in one of my concepts.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

I do the same as well.

I generally keep a small list of abilities to compare in my head i.e

Lux ult ~3300 Lux E ~1100 Nid spear ~1500 Flash 425 etc.

Of course, you could always measure in Teemos ; )

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

See, I would laugh at the idea of Teemo units, but my latest concept used "cho'gath units" in terms of size, so I have no room to talk :P

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Well the nice thing is that Teemo is 100 units, making an ironic perfect unit of measurement XD

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Ah, you know I didn't see it at a time, my apologies. Sometimes reading a ton of these wears your eyes a bit x-x'. Either way it wouldn't have changed the score, that dash is a little broken either way.

I will say I did enjoy the thought overall though! Cool stuff you got going on.

Axis the Dragon1 votes

Ah, no worries. You gave me really high Lore scores, and just that made me happy. xD

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

You clearly put a ton of work into that lore and I appreciate that. Keep up the good work :)

Master of EVIL901 votes

You're the only person who gave my full points on lore, and you didn't criticize it. Thank you :3

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Sure thing :P

For anyone else reading this:

  • Yes I have a personal bias towards champions that actually have a purpose in the League. I.e they had some battle in Ionia and have to solve it.. etc...

  • Yes I still support the old League lore, personally I don't think that the new "lore" is really cohesive enough yet to start judging from that stand point

If you want more explanation about my personal bias towards the old lore from a design stand point I'd be happy to ramble on. Otherwise for the sake of not making wall texts, I'll leave this is as is for now :P.

Master of EVIL901 votes

Show my thy wall :3

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

I'll write it out in the morning then :). Even us pleb judges need sleep and worlds starts at 9!

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Inc text wall. Re: Stream of consciousness beware of grammar (sorry).

The reason for the change in League's old lore was, to the best of my knowledge a lack of sustainability as the game expanded. Fitting champions into a pretty set lore was becoming increasingly hard to do, so they decided they needed a new, more expandable story line in order to encompass a quickly expanding game. Thus they started redoing lore, taking out core concepts of what League started as.

Taking out their original story line creates opportunities sure, but those opportunities are almost TOO endless. Think of it as in terms of a game's type. Sonic '06 was partly a mess (ignoring the hella bugs) because it had no identity. You know what people want when they play a Sonic game? To go fast. You know what you don't do in Sonic '06? Go fast. League obviously doesn't have an identity crisis in terms of gameplay -- MOBA is pretty hard to combine with anything else -- but it's story contradicts itself so much that the game doesn't even know what it is without it. Of course the reason people play league is more for the gameplay than story, but the story is supposed to accentuate your game, keep people coming back and interested in diving deeper. Take the new game Undertale for example. The gameplay is pretty straight forward, but the story is so interesting that I want to keep knowing more -- and I'm on my third run of that game now.

So this is what it comes down to: you wouldn't want to play a game that's an RPG, side scroller, stealth, top down, strategy, isometric 2D visual novel, would you? Probably not, because who can balance all those elements and make something fun and cohesive. You'd become so confused that you don't even know what to do anymore. So that's where my bias in this comes from. You could have a really awesome and well thought out story, but if this champion doesn't belong in League the players are going to feel it. That's why Ao Shin should never be a champion. It doesn't fit. That type of character belongs in Smite.

Feel free to comment on any errors I made I'll fix em lol. If anyone else actually reads this as well I'd love to hear your feedback and opinions.

Master of EVIL901 votes

This is why I enjoy the Bilgewater event and Shurimian events. As well as the segment of "lore" Riot made on Kindred... called "A Good Death." Adding to the story, the world that they live in is what makes good game a good game. Even with the Yasuo/Riven mystery and the Garen/Katerina unknown hints of interest. Some times it's the mystery of what really happened that draws people in.

example: We know that Riven was apart of the raid on Ionia. We know Riven killed some form of higher up in Ionia. We also know that Yasuo lost his elder after he disobeyed orders. Yasuo brother also saids that the killer had a wind technique (specificly not magic). Riven... killed what may be an elder, has a wind-based ki technique (I hate having to explain why she's not a magic user but a ki user). Along with Yasuo's special taunts, we can begin to theorize that Riven is Yasuo's Master's killer.

I still think Riot needs to clarify that though :3

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Yup :P. Those events were nice.

And yeah there's uncertainty on that. I'm sure someone will come up with an answer, eventually. There's a lot of uncertainty surrounding the entire lore though. Would be nice if someone from Riot could speak more on it now.

Master of EVIL901 votes

I like having theories in games to make looking at story and physics of the game, but certain things that do need a fact stomping on it. (horrible terminology XD)

Master of EVIL901 votes

Any tips you have to improve champion concepts in the future?

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Be precise. The more you can be precise and concise the better. There's a lot of things that go into building a kit, if you think anything if confusing expand on it.

New and complex isn't always better. Not every ability has to be some crazy out there thing. I've seen a lot of kits just crumble because there's just waaaaaaay too much going on. Make it fun. Make it cohesive. Make it balanced. Don't feel the need to throw stuff in just for a wow factor. Look at Lux's kit. It looks simple on the outside, but it actually ends up to be a lot of fun because it works together.

Master of EVIL901 votes

Funny, that was a big part to Karvia's moveset. I had a skill set with simple skills, standard skill shot, basic attack modifier, blink with short stealth, gap closer, and a Quinn themed mark... with improvements

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Huh, don't I think I've seen it?

Master of EVIL901 votes

It's my entry for October CCOS, so unless you're a judge this month, I can show to you if you want

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Will probably be a judge, so I'll look at it when the time comes :).

Stephenizgod1 votes

There was a lot of confusion over my Sun and Moon abilities, i admit i didnt portray what i was going for correctly or clearly enough :( any specific instances where i could have been more clear?

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

When you create kits that have 2 abilities per key, it's really important to explain really well how each ability gets used. For example the ult: Do you have to have 70% of your sun to cast it? Or it's over 70% to get the sun part and below 70% to get the moon part? It seems really nit picky, but it's important to know. Needing 70% of your sun just to cast, only for it to not have a cost is obnoxious. However, if it is 70% or more to get the sun part, I'd argue why? This is supposed to be a champion about the balance of sun and moon. So why is it over 70% for the sun and not 50% -- that's just a thematic thing?

I think you overall actually did a pretty good job at explaining it. There were just tiny bits left unsaid, that especially in the case of many ability champs, needs to be clarified.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Ah gotcha! It costs 70% of your maximum Sun as in you need 70% of your Sun to cast it, if you do not have 70% it will cast Mysterious Moon instead. If you do have 70% then it will cost that much. As for why you need 70% Sun and nothing for Moon is because i was going for a balance of Moon deals damage to gain Sun, use Sun for more damage and to use your Moon. You need to use Moon to gain Sun, then you need to use Sun so you can use Moon, its an odd cycle that in my mind was a good balance between the two.

I do see where i could have been more clear, at least i should have expanded more in the explanations section what i was going for, i mean why else have that section lol.

thank you for the feedback :)

Master of EVIL901 votes

Let the Poro icon debate continue... next time >:3

XD

Stephenizgod2 votes

Ah it seems I scored lower due to my lack of clarity in his kit :)

Just to clarify, I was trying to portray something like Sun = Power, Explosive Magic, Etc. and Moon = Strength, Vitality, Sustain, Etc. Basically the Sun is his Magic Power and the Moon his Physical Power. If there is anything that didn't seem right with the double abilities Daeluras has its because i was trying to enforce the idea of "Moon is the physical AD damage, it deals with his health and shields him as well as augments his physical damage; Sun is the magical AP damage, it is his range, his poke, and turns him into a pseudo-mage when he has the resource for it" its my failure to better portray that in the kit :(

Also his E does give him a bit too much power and I was seriously considering removing the minion block part but wasn't sure if i should or not.

Anyways i didn't think my concept would win i just wanted feedback, so thank you to everyone who gave good feedback, thank you to the judges as well i appreciated that feedback, and of course thanks to Sir ArmaMalum.

passıon2 votes

If I enter this month, does the Lore have to be incredibly long?

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Nope, make it as long or short as you want. Although my advice would be to include an abbreviated version if you make it really long to make it easier for others to digest.

showcase251 votes

your summoner name... lol

+1'ed just because. i think its cool.

BowieTheNifty1 votes

Sorry I couldn't get feedback on everyone's champion concept. Things got in the way towards the end. Though I was happy to be a judge for these fine entries this month. If you have any questions just feel free to ask me.

Vorazun1 votes

Hey! To be honest, I interpreted spirits in the Japanese sense, where they are more like sentient yet somewhat supernatural beings that inhabit everything. I guess I should have used 'Sprites' instead of 'Spirits'. Sorry about the confusion!

BowieTheNifty1 votes

{quoted}

Hey! To be honest, I interpreted spirits in the Japanese sense, where they are more like sentient yet somewhat supernatural beings that inhabit everything. I guess I should have used 'Sprites' instead of 'Spirits'. Sorry about the confusion!

Hey I was getting the general gist of it. You don't really have to change much with it honestly. You had a great concept which is why you got up into the top five. There are little things you can do for clarity reasons and others for balance. Just got to go into delve into your head and you will find the answers.

Vorazun1 votes

To be honest, the W %missing mana is there because you burn through mana fast

At optimal capacity, you should be burning through a minimum of 300 mana every 10 seconds (40*4 for sprites, 70 for Conduit, 70 for movement), or 30 mana per second. If you're actively moving Conduits and ulting, you're gonna be spending a lot more. It was mainly used as a mechanic so that she isn't obligated to build 2 mana items just to function and delay her powerspike even further. Even with her ability to quickly charge an AA staff, it would mean that she could hardly be relevant on the map (ie. her raison d'etre) before 25 or even 20

Master of EVIL901 votes

Do you have anything else you want to say about Tridant?

Vbunnie1 votes

I only received 1 persons feedback. Whats up?

BowieTheNifty1 votes

{quoted}

I only received 1 persons feedback. Whats up?

Unfortunately I wasn't able to give feed back for some of the entries. Things got way to busy for me and all I had time for was the numbers. If you like I could give you the feed back directly on the champion concept itself and go from there.

rockroler1 votes

So i got the lowest score?? I knew this was just a waste ;(

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