A champ that borrows other champs abilities concept?

Mega MilkJugs·Oct 13, 2015·23 votes·2,128 views

So i was thinking of some new champ ideas and concepts and i thought about this. What if their was a champ that sort of borrowed or copied abilities from other champs?

Maybe they could borrow the ability for a short time or have a limited use of said copied ability but it would be weaker than the original ability.
I was also thinking maybe this new champ could be like a shapeshifter or a ditto or something.

Its all just an idea i spontaneously had but what do you guys think of it? in terms of copying ults, im not really sure if that would be balanced unless perhaps using a copied ult used up a bunch of mana or something.

34 Comments

TeslynOct 13, 20156 votes

like .. have almost a sivir shield thing that absorbs the ability then you have a bit to cast it using the same button..

or .. you start with 1 ability then you have to click on the champion you want to be .. almost like a dople ganger ability .. then you are like a off shade color of the champ that you selected.. so like a copy of any champ that is being played.. so say.. they dude picked zed.. well F him.. i think i am a better zed so.. bam.. .. in this context i would have to say .. well Q him .. bam i am him now..

imagine 2 thresh in a game?? one goes adc and the other support??

i like both these ideas.. if they where what you where thinking..

would be a pain to hunt down a jungler if you wanted that guy.. also it would really mess up pick bans in a way that he is literally a flex pick for every position..

Mega MilkJugsOct 13, 20152 votes

This is pretty much what i was thinking so yh you kinda nailed it c: I really like the sivir shield thing concept of like absorbing the ability then having a short time to recast it.

That way it would also be more skill reliant instead of just point and click take your ability.

Ditto with the 1 ability and becoming a champ concept of yours too. (see what i did there?) c:

Sir ArmaMalumOct 13, 20155 votes

This has been attempted a few times in a few champion concepts I've seen. Personally I really don't see it working without some really clever mechanics on top of that 'core' mechanic. There are a lot of problems involved.....

Uncopyable abilities (as Skelenth said) like Azir W
Combo Abilities like Zilean Q would be awful to copy
Having a single ability that can be any ability means that it, by it's very nature, cannot synergize with the rest of this hypothetical champion's normal kit

Now this does not at all mean it's impossible for this kind of champion to exist.

For example, a whiiiiiiile back I saw a ditto/copy champion kit that, as an ultimate, copied an ally. While copied, this champion would look exactly like the target (think the mirror in brawlers) and have access to all abilities with a cooldown less than 20 seconds (so no actual ultimates, but still including things like Akali R). When this champion used an ability the illusion is broken, but at the end of the day you could copy a Thresh and send another Q out, or copy a Fizz and troll-pole your way out of something.

Honestly it was so far back I don't remember the concept and I can't remember the rest of the kit but it stuck with me because it was a way to make this kind of mechanic work.

They key is to allow this 'copy' mechanic to be more than just 'get another ability'. Because that by itself is simply not a viable mechanic, but adding in stuff like visual cloning and illusions let's this mechanic pair with some fun playstyle changes and make it more favorable.

Mega MilkJugsOct 13, 20151 votes

I really like this post, its true i did think that just having an ability that's someone elses ability would probably be problematic and the way you described it is how i pretty much thought it (i was just a bit lazy to type it all in the way you did)

Seriously like that cloning thing you mentioned as well would defo be a sure fire way of being able to use those more unique weird abilities ie azir w. It being an ultimate as well makes more sense since the whole thing would probably escalate out of proportion if it were just some normal ability with a 10 sec cd. thanks for this great post and glad you gave some good feedback on how this mechanic could still be implemented without potentially being unfair or hard to code/use.

NarasimhaOct 13, 20151 votes

To be fair, there is evidence of it working even by itself. Just look at DoTA's Rubick.

Sir ArmaMalumOct 13, 20151 votes

True true, I will admit dota is much more willing to cross lines in terms of balance. It's a more 'throw it in and see what happens' kinda game when it comes to champs. Imho that just means that they have more confidence in their playerbase to adapt than Riot does for League.

KögâOct 13, 20155 votes

Generic name- title about being adaptive.

Innate- Builds resistances to last damage dealt. MR upon taking magic damage vise-versa. This resets when not taking damage. Maybe permanent bonus to MR/ARM when dying to that source of damage?

Q- Generic stuff.

W-Cycles between poke, stun and shield depending on what you were damaged by last. (Poke, CC, DOT)

E-More generic stuff

R-Cool generic stuff.

Edit- You could make the W spell cycle from a LAAAARGE range of spells and spell effects.

Tails DollOct 14, 20153 votes

Love how this discribes pretty much every champ.

3 generic skills, and one or two "especial" ones.

Bootleg GayOct 13, 20153 votes

I always wanted an ult that let gave you a buff, allowing you to use the target's ultimate within a certain amount of time, with a few exceptions for ultimate differences. You don't need the whole kit to copy your opponent, just an ult will do.

For champions like Karma or Heimerdinger, he gets one of his own abilities buffed.

Against Jayce, Elise, or Nidalee, he could gain an alternate form that grants him more power for a short time.

Against toggles, like Anivia or Swain, he could activate it for a set period of time to turn it on and off for free, then it goes on a shortened cooldown.

Against multi cast ultimates, like Ahri or Kog'Maw, he could have a set time to cast lots of times.

Finally, against Yasuo specifically, he gets a chance to knock up, then reactivate to cast the ultimate.

Would take lots of coding, but it's more simple than a whole kit based around a copy cat.

OrangesilkOct 13, 20153 votes

Welp, the main problem is that, at 126 possible copyable champions and four abilities per champion, we're looking at a guy who'd have to have 504 animations on him.

DOTA2 uses the archaic WC3 mod system, which is why abilities can be disjointed from animations, and they just have a set of generic melee animations or ranged animations for their abilities, this is why ability draft is possible in DOTA2.

LoL however does not.

Mega MilkJugsOct 13, 20152 votes

That does sound pretty challenging to code tbh... i mean im no coder obvis but one can dream right c:

Do you think there would be anyway to still implement something similar though?

OrangesilkOct 13, 20151 votes

There's an easy out, have the character have an animation where he throws something, make it look generic like a ballista shot or something.

Now, allow this character to catch projectiles like Yasuo or Braum, but as a one-time only thing, he then holds the projectile for a while and has a chance to throw it back, using the generic animation.

This would STILL be a bitch to code for abilities which have several independent projectiles (Ashe, MF, Diana), but would lead to VERY interesting gameplay where you want to catch a GOOD one, like a Veigars ult, but have to time it right not to catch a BAD one, like a Soraka AA.

Melee abilities and attacks however, are basically impossible to catch/copy and then reproduce, because of their nature, It'd be hard to have a guy copy CHOs R, and make it work with the same animations he makes work a Darius Q.

RetroRage96Oct 14, 20152 votes

I think it would be more of something where the champ has regular abilities QWE, then his/her ult is where you select a nearby ally and you transform into something else, not the selected champion (because that would be confusing.) You could transform into some kind of mirror monster, or a big slimy ditto-like creature. Then, similar to Garen's ult, it displays the face of the champion you have transformed into. You can then use their abilities, and each one would be considerably weaker. Or maybe something like you get a few charges, and each one can be used on a nearby ally to transform your ultimate into the last spell they used (not summoner spells,) and it would have to be like below a certain cooldown or something? I don't know.

This would be really hard to implement and still be balanced though.

kaltenashesOct 14, 20152 votes

DIttO https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX_J4dh2pPflfOErD_SVka6qE8O-6cUS5fg1LSqCw43ebpX4023w

AgentBlackOct 13, 20151 votes

Cool idea, but would be impossible to balance. There's too much variety, too many potentially broken combos.

SkelenthOct 13, 20153 votes

Also, there may be uncopyable abilities. Azirs soldier-commands for example

TBakesOct 13, 20151 votes

I was trying to think of a way to incorporate a "ricochet" mechanic in a champion. Instead of blocking it like a Braum shield or Yasuo windwall the ability would bounce the projectile away and damage whomever it hits (allies or enemies). It would require precise positioning to maximize the damage to enemies and minimize damage to allies.

There could also be an absorbing mechanic that allows the champion to copy an ability of another champion. Kind of like Rogue from X-men or Buu from Dragonball Z. I imagine it to be similar to Fiora riposte, where it negates the damage and allows you to then cast the absorbed ability. It might be difficult for a player to understand all of the projectile skillshots in the game enough to logistically pull off, but a cool concept, nonetheless.

Simple MoonOct 13, 20151 votes

I think absorbing an ability would be awesome. But what if a champion had open abilities. Like say a pretty simple kit. But when you get a kill/death you can choose to take one of the abilities for yourself. So say you die to Annie, you can take her Q. You kill, yasou, you can take his wind wall for your W. You Kill lulu, you can take her polymorph as your E. Your ult could give you the power to return to your normal kit, plus a heal based on level. (To choose new abilities depending on how the fights are going) Your passive would be Cooldown related. So instead of Annie's Q every 5 seconds you get it at 4 etc. and if you feel that your given abilities help your team more then you can keep them. Thoughts?

layritOct 13, 20151 votes

I haven't read all the comments, likely someone already told you that:

that HERO is called Rubick in Dota2 and it is unlikely that Riot will try to "borrow" the idea from another MOBA.

Even IF they'd go as far as making it there might be some trouble with copyright issues (because VALVe sure as hell registered EVERYTHING they did).

Hotlin3 FlingOct 13, 20151 votes

Drow ranger>ashe Techies+riki=satan Bounty hunter w/ meepo ult= shaco

RoodrakOct 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Drow ranger>ashe Techies+riki=satan Bounty hunter w/ meepo ult= shaco

Nah, Shaco would be Pre-Rework Phantom lancer, or you could argue Arc Warden with any invisibility item.

Toonoob4meOct 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nah, Shaco would be Pre-Rework Phantom lancer, or you could argue Arc Warden with any invisibility item.

That feel when ti is over and valve still hasnt released arc warden or pit lord

SnowFallOct 13, 20151 votes

The Magus! ...DENIES YOU

IsmokeOreganoOct 13, 20151 votes

so pretty much like kirby?

eghoops1Oct 13, 20151 votes

That would be pretty huge in competitive and solo que I could see that champ being perma banned because well it kind of removes the concept of counter picks. You would basically be using the enemy teams strengths against them in terms of team fighting. I don't about that one sounds pretty scary to me or I could just be over reacting.

alfavhunterOct 13, 20151 votes

Make a base champion with Mediocer Q W E

R is "mimic" causes your basic abilities to mimic a selected enemy champion for 5/8/11 seconds and reset the CD of Q W E

What this does

Champion can use Q W E then R and use the enemies Q W E for less effectiveness based on the items he has built

This champion would be a ad bruiser

How is this balanced?

He doesn't steal ultimate abilities, so if using on a zed, it gives him mobility through shadows but no ult, if used on veigar he gets the stun, low damage abilities (because he doesn't build ap)

His passive would be mirror image which allows him to trade image icons for the mini map with select enemy champion that he selects (2 min CD) and works similar to kindered mark passive

This does not change his base model, just the icon for the map

His ult however does make him look like who he mimicked but be the color of his team (example he would look like zed but all color is blue or red based on team resulting in the appearance of an ink over of all features

Lintu PuckOct 13, 20151 votes

the coding alone would be pure hell >.< so no

FrostiFlamiOct 13, 20151 votes

The GRAAAAAAAND MAAAAAAAGUS SHALL APPEAR

Toonoob4meOct 14, 20151 votes

Sounds like http://orig03.deviantart.net/0b67/f/2013/098/0/1/rubick_by_yy6242-d60vfhx.png to me

CrazyC0ffeeOct 14, 20151 votes

Maybe the whole champion concept wouldn't have to be centered around this as that would make him a bit too flexible, but maybe he could be like Kirby in Smash and just have one ability that copies another champ's ability :]

Blue Moon WolfOct 14, 20151 votes

I had a similar Idea when tossing around an idea for a jungle champ that gets different appearances and effects on their abilities based on what large camp monster he kills and extra bonuses for taking dragon and baron (honestly I was trying to turn kirby into a champ .__.). I have always liked the Idea in fighting games with the one character who copies another character's move set at random (I.E. mokujin in tekken and that bird guy in soul calibur 3) and would love to see that here.