[CCC] OCTOBER RESULTS!!!!!

Sir ArmaMalum··14 votes·5,468 views

As if the entrance of harrowing wasn't enough, today's also the day to announce the winners of the October CCC!

(All planned, obviously)

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-Office.gif


Now before we jump into it, please take a moment to thank this month's judges!

  • EMOFRATPARTY <--- extra kudos for making the scoresheet formatting!
  • MahouMan
  • Stephenizgod
  • ThorsCookies

Onto the results!

All scores can be seen and reviewed here (I suggest starting on page 3 for a quick reference). There are annotations to the right, but feel free to ask for more detailed information and specific questions on a score in the comments!

In first place with a whopping 366/400 (That's 91.5% if you're wondering) is....

Colt, the Siege Engineer by dialMARK4acti0n!

Congratulations! You will be getting your medal Gif animation sometime this weekend.

#Runner-ups

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|| |- |Fu Xi, The Ancient Strings of Death by DMC75001 | 352/400 | |Edga, Valoran's Traveling Festival by JackYAqua | 348/400 | |Skave, The Bladecraft Automation by TyeGuy | 345/400 | |Sierra, The Pack Leader by Rothmi | 330/400 |


As far as what the next month will hold I can only tell you this: keep an eye out for next month's MCCC!

70 Comments

EMOFRATPARTY6 votes

Great work to everyone who participated, regardless of score. It was a great privilege to be able to read through each of these concepts.

DMC750012 votes

Great work to everyone who participated, regardless of score. It was a great privilege to be able to read through each of these concepts.

This is why I love the League community so much. Thank you all so much for participating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bourmegar1 votes

well thank you for being a good judge :)

DMC750015 votes

HOLY. MOTHER. OF. BATMAN!!!!

SECOND PLACE!!!!!

This is soooooooo awessssssssoooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Thank you soo much!!!!!!!!!!!

(Also, D1AL, congrats on another win!!)

Stephenizgod2 votes

Congratz on second place :) there were a ton of good concepts so it is quite an achievement.

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

Thanks DMC! Maaaaan... YOU deserve a first place! I'm so glad you're a part of the concept community!

DMC750011 votes

Psh, lemme throw in a pun for you.

Colt "BLEW UP" Fu Xi so bad, he got first place.

D1AL, I love ya, brother! Great to have you in the League Community!

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

Awwww thanks pal

Rothmi1 votes

GJ m8! I totally thought Fu Xi would have won but this is awesome! congrats!

Stephenizgod2 votes

Congratz to all the contests and a special congragulations to dialMARK4acti0n! Colt was an awesome concept among a bunch of great concepts. This months Contest was packed full with very good concepts, i was blown away so another congratz to all of you :)

Note: I can only speak for myself but if you would like to know what i think your concept did right or wrong feel free to ask :D

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

I'm sorry man, but YOUR concepts are just the best man! I'm a HUGE fan. Haven't read all of them. Thanks for the support! ^^

Nagirte2 votes

Appreciate the comments, apologize for not finishing my entry.

As a side note, will the ccc and mccc continue to be parallel contests or is there going to be a merger? The reason that I ask is that the format for the contests is kind of different so a full on conversion/combination may be jarring for some. Also how will the host be decided? MCCC hosts tend to change each month.

Othello the Cat2 votes

Well, from what I'm gathering, the MCCC will still be standalone and separate, but a few changes will need to be made. Better advertising, challenges and formatting will need to be done.

EMOFRATPARTY1 votes

I think Sir (and hopefully myself) are going to be working with some of the people involved with MCCC and figuring out how to best merge the two. I'm sure everyone will be updated as things get sorted out.

Othello the Cat2 votes

Who will be deliberating? I know that I'm only a one-year vet, but I still would like to help determine the contest's fate.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

So far it's just been me and Moby, I was thinking about getting a client chatroom together so everyone who wants to pitch in can if they want. Thoughts?

Othello the Cat1 votes

So long as it's after 3 PM PST and not on Tuesday. I have school and work those days.

Elphrihaim1 votes

So far it's just been me and Moby, I was thinking about getting a client chatroom together so everyone who wants to pitch in can if they want. Thoughts?

I know I would love to read it, offer my opinion and gather up some data.

You should probably see if you can find all the previous MCCC hosts.

Since, well, they're all different and had their own hand to play in making it.

[i'm bad at checking threads. >_<]

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

So far it's just been me and Moby, I was thinking about getting a client chatroom together so everyone who wants to pitch in can if they want. Thoughts?

I know I would love to read it, offer my opinion and gather up some data.

You should probably see if you can find all the previous MCCC hosts.

Since, well, they're all different and had their own hand to play in making it.

[i'm bad at checking threads. >_<]

--Elphrihaim

Well the profile widget for replies will help at least a little :P

But yeah it's between that, maybe a Skype chatroom or another some such thing. (Plz no facebook :P)

Either way, no offense to the MCCC but the lack of a centralized representation makes communicating with you guys very hard XD

Elphrihaim1 votes

Well the profile widget for replies will help at least a little :P

How so, if I might ask?

But yeah it's between that, maybe a Skype chatroom or another some such thing. (Plz no facebook :P)

I'd love Skype. But that's me personally. (edit: my skype is eliwansky.)

Either way, no offense to the MCCC but the lack of a centralized representation makes communicating with you guys very hard XD

Well of course? Why would we have that, when the forums are a grand communication device that allows anybody that wants to see ALL the conversation just start reading it.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

How so, if I might ask?

Eh, just being able to jump to a direct reply right off the bat is all.

I'd love Skype. But that's me personally. (edit: my skype is eliwansky.)

As do I, I'll try to get something going this Thursday.

Well of course? Why would we have that, when the forums are a grand communication device that allows anybody that wants to see ALL the conversation just start reading it.

It's less of a matter of seeing what's been said and more of who's talking. Ideally, there would be one guy who could speak for the contest as a whole when discussions such as this come up. But it's not impossible to do without, so we'll see. ^_^

Sir ArmaMalum3 votes

So far as I have worked out the CCC will merge into the MCCC and we'll go from there. Due to lack of a central representation of the MCCC I can't say it's 100% but I can say it with a fair amount of confidence.

The merge is due to two major reasons:

  1. The MCCC is an older group that needs a home in the Boards

  2. While I've done my best, I still have a lot to learn when it comes to concepting and organizing these contests. I want to work with the MCCC hosts to see what works and what doesn't. Ideally we'll learn from each other equally :D

Hosts will be chosen under the MCCC's system of first hand raised for the next month. As Othello said, there will probably be some changes along the way that I'll be trying to help out with. i.e. I wouldn't mind at all to keep making the prize Gifs for the CCC for winners.

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

OMG!!! YEAAHHH!!!! I'M SO GLAD YOU LOVED COLT!

Thank you so much for all the wonderful people of the champion concept community!! I'm really sorry I haven't been so active lately... it really pains me that I can't spend more time with you guys.

Anyway, thank you so much for doing this contest and I hope you continue to grow!

Words can not describe what I am feeling now. All I can say... is thank you! And congratulations to everyone else!

Flintfall2 votes

Ugh, I've been really busy lately but I want to congratulate dialMARK4acti0n for his well-deserved victory! I decided against doing half-ass judging because you folks deserve someone to fully look through your concept, I'm just sorry I couldn't deliver on that :(

That said, I look forward to seeing everyone in November!

Raptamei2 votes

Meh, it seems some of the judges really hated my lore. item 3070item 3070

I did this style of lore before and won the MCCC with it. The difference is that there's multiple judges involved in the CCC, so doing something controversial multiplies the risk that one of the judges dislikes it and then it's over. Lesson learned I guess?

Wp to the winners though. :)

Raptamei2 votes

Le sigh.

Why exactly was mentioning that I got trashed on lore and that taking risks is a bad idea with three judges worthy of 3 downvotes?

Nagirte1 votes

having 3 judges actually lessens the risk of just getting bad luck of the lore not being to a certain judge's tastes. In the MCCC if there aren't any assisting judges, then it's more common that the winner is selected more by personal preference than objectivity.

Elphrihaim1 votes

having 3 judges actually lessens the risk of just getting bad luck of the lore not being to a certain judge's tastes. In the MCCC if there aren't any assisting judges, then it's more common that the winner is selected more by personal preference than objectivity.

MCCC can have multiple judges.

And you can appeal to the judge specifically, by not making a type of lore if you believe they'll dislike it... Since you know all the judges in advance. ._.'

Nagirte1 votes

I'm aware. But it's not always the case and, at least coming from the perspective of someone from the MACFA contests which consistently had 4+ judges, there's many more times that the MCCC doesn't have that many.

Othello the Cat1 votes

Okay, to the people who are trashing Raptamei, this is not how to get someone immersed with how you do things. In the Forums, he was an incredible designer and won many MCCCs. He's just not really comfortable with how things are run here. He has a right to be a bit pissed.

Nagirte2 votes

At least in the MACFA, I remember him not taking criticism very well. If someone didn't agree with him on a certain direction or suggested he modify it, he tended to post that backhanded "I guess not everyone likes creativity" kind of comment in reply.

I like some of his designs, and don't dislike him as a person, but he really doesn't handle criticism, even if constructive, well.

Raptamei2 votes

At least in the MACFA, I remember him not taking criticism very well. If someone didn't agree with him on a certain direction or suggested he modify it, he tended to post that backhanded "I guess not everyone likes creativity" kind of comment in reply.

I'm not mad because I lost. I'm mad because I posted to the effect of "well, that was dumb" and got 3 downvotes for it. :(

Nagirte1 votes

It was the way you said it. It came off REALLY backhanded and kinda rude.

Othello the Cat2 votes

Give us a Halloween gift and post the contest today!

TheTyeGuy1 votes

Did Skave get any comments from judges? I would like to see them wherever they are.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

You can check the whole scoresheet out here. Skave is entry #7.

Mostly all positive comments, which has been a recurring thing in the annotations for this month. That's something I need to work on for future contests. Idk how it's going to boil down with the MCCC merge but I still haven't nailed down a good systematic incentive for constructive negative feedback as of yet.

Bourmegar1 votes

mmmm Chippy got 177 points... well I guess I have to improve myself allot until I make my next one :)

Elphrihaim1 votes

#RamsaySnow wrote:

At least in the MACFA, I remember him not taking criticism very well. If someone didn't agree with him on a certain direction or suggested he modify it, he tended to post that backhanded "I guess not everyone likes creativity" kind of comment in reply.

I like some of his designs, and don't dislike him as a person, but he really doesn't handle criticism, even if constructive, well.

... .. I have trouble believing this. *shuffles to archives to try and find context*

SirArmaMalum wrote:

It's less of a matter of seeing what's been said and more of who's talking. Ideally, there would be one guy who could speak for the contest as a whole when discussions such as this come up. But it's not impossible to do without, so we'll see. ^_^

It's a community event. No one person is able to talk of it from every viewpoint, because each person has a different take on what it really is; thus each participant creates a new angle from which it can be attacked.

But my personal opinion is that the MCCC forces users to create something new just for that month. The 'MACFA' on the Forums admitted any concept not already submitted, iirc.

The CCC doesn't have too many restrictions, so it's possible to make a concept and then modify it before posting it, including a well-developed lore and character and incorporating that being into the kit, making something that has a very cohesive feel.

The MCCC doesn't really allow you to make something beforehand, because of how many requirements there are. It's more constrained in that sense, but you can apply some lateral thinking to it and nudge the requirements from difficulties into showing off one's ingenuity.

(Chronological view is best view.)

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

It's a community event. No one person is able to talk of it from every viewpoint, because each person has a different take on what it really is; thus each participant creates a new angle from which it can be attacked.

But my personal opinion is that the MCCC forces users to create something new just for that month. The 'MACFA' on the Forums admitted any concept not already submitted, iirc.

The CCC doesn't have too many restrictions, so it's possible to make a concept and then modify it before posting it, including a well-developed lore and character and incorporating that being into the kit, making something that has a very cohesive feel.

The MCCC doesn't really allow you to make something beforehand, because of how many requirements there are. It's more constrained in that sense, but you can apply some lateral thinking to it and nudge the requirements from difficulties into showing off one's ingenuity.

---Elphrihaim

Completely agree with you here. Personally I made the CCC that way as a conscious choice because my main goal with the CCC was to be a catalyst to the relatively weak concepting community that was present at the time. In my eyes the CCC and MCCC accomplish two different things with the same medium, the MCCC provides a challenge that requires ingenuity and experience whereas the CCC is a much more broad 'showcase' that more encourages systematic feedback (albeit I need to work on that bit better) and new unique ideas.

As far as the future goes I personally would love to create a 'Master tier' MCCC (current MCCC set-up) that has RP prizes and the like and a 'Silver-tier' (current CCC set-up) that focuses more on a kind of 'introductory' concepting contest with more superficial prizes (like the gifs) for the aforementioned reason. Of course that's a rough idea.

Elphrihaim1 votes

Completely agree with you here. Personally I made the CCC that way as a conscious choice because my main goal with the CCC was to be a catalyst to the relatively weak concepting community that was present at the time. In my eyes the CCC and MCCC accomplish two different things with the same medium, the MCCC provides a challenge that requires ingenuity and experience whereas the CCC is a much more broad 'showcase' that more encourages systematic feedback (albeit I need to work on that bit better) and new unique ideas.

The reason why it was weak was because most of (us? the?) conceptors were attached to the Forums, which is much better if you have a long post (as on the first page, you can keep scrolling down and see the same style of post, there's no break between the opening post and the comments. Additionally, since you have to see the posts in the order they were made, you can't say that the post with extra information was hidden, it was right there all along.

Here, though, anybody using the reddit view* instead of the vbulletin view** could, if the author's secondary post with extra information doesn't garner a lot of upvotes, say that it was hidden and they couldn't see it.

Additionally, the fact that the character limit per opening post here is 24000, and on the Forums it's 50000 for both opening posts and replies makes it much, much, much harder to actually post a real character. See Ephrial, the Blazing Swordsman's post here... versus his Forum one. There's tons of extra content in the Forum post because of how much larger the character limit is... and even THEN, more space was needed.

So HERE, you are basically forced to make your entire concept in <24000 characters. On the Forums, you could use as many pages as you wanted-- See The Champion Creation Guide by Katsuni for an extreme example of "need more space". Since replies here are limited to 4096 characters, people can't just hide away their concepts inside the thread-- they HAVE to make a separate one. In my opinion, this is actually bad, because it means that they invite themselves to be struck by people not interested in the concept creation community, people that just have some spare time but don't want to read an idea all the way through and try to understand the background. People that will just downvote the thread and move on, preventing the people that actually may peruse it whole-heartedly from doing so easily, discouraging the person...

Er, wait. That's me ranting against Boards.

* You probably know it as Discussion

** You probably know it as Chronological

As far as the future goes I personally would love to create a 'Master tier' MCCC (current MCCC set-up) that has RP prizes and the like and a 'Silver-tier' (current CCC set-up) that focuses more on a kind of 'introductory' concepting contest with more superficial prizes (like the gifs) for the aforementioned reason. Of course that's a rough idea.

I think that the CCC not as good at helping somebody learn because it doesn't give you some ground rules. Having a platform off which to go on is much better than having nothing at all, in my opinion and experience. But I understand the point-- something that has a fairly low barrier to entry. I agree with that being a good idea, I just think that the people that are looking for a contest are the people dedicated to the craft, the people that won't mind staying and learning... But will leave if they find themselves under attack too often because they are human beings.

Nagirte1 votes

Honestly the thing that I see that is most missing is that getting replies/critique on your concept is more luck of the draw than anything. I would personally love to see more interaction and discussion of each person's concept. From what i've seen on the MCCC and the CCC (might be a bad sample size and i didn't look at each thread) a couple concepts got a ton of feedback and critique and others got none or almost none.

One of the huge strengths of the MACFA was the emphasis on trying to create the best version of a concept by granting some bonus points in return for substantive critique on other contestants' concept. I think this would be a good addition to both contests, but if we're trying to do more of a tiered version like Arma suggested to provide support for newer designers, then this type of thing would be even more important on the "silver" tier. It might even be good to emphasize critique/discussion quite heavily in this version.

Raptamei1 votes

It was the way you said it. It came off REALLY backhanded and kinda rude.

?

Honestly the thing that I see that is most missing is that getting replies/critique on your concept is more luck of the draw than anything. I would personally love to see more interaction and discussion of each person's concept.

I proposed a merger between the MACFA and MCCC because the mandatory reviews make a big difference and everyone got angry at me for daring to suggest this. Apparently I was "trying to sabotage" the MCCC. Welp.

But yes, I think some sort of review requirement for participants would give people without a massive fanclub more of a chance, and would also weed out people who don't really care about the contest.

From what i've seen on the MCCC and the CCC (might be a bad sample size and i didn't look at each thread) a couple concepts got a ton of feedback and critique and others got none or almost none.

In the MCCC it never made much of a difference because it was more important to figure out what the judge liked as opposed to what the community likes. Some wanted originality, others wanted balance (in this case feedback was indeed useful), or humour, or lore, or sheer amount of content, and a few just wanted their AU's dick sucked.

But now the CCC and its multiple judges mean you can't play the man instead of the ball and you have to make an actually good concept instead of just a very specific one. And I don't know how to do that. :(((

Nagirte2 votes

I did this style of lore before and won the MCCC with it. The difference is that there's multiple judges involved in the CCC, so doing something controversial multiplies the risk that one of the judges dislikes it and then it's over. Lesson learned I guess?

The way that comes off translates loosely to: I won in a different contest with a similar lore, so you are wrong to dislike it. The rest kind of blames the poor score on getting unlucky and instead of saying "could you be more specific on why you disliked it? I would like to fix the problems if they go beyond personal preference."

It's not so much what you're saying as much as how you're saying it. The way the judgements lacked a detailed explanation may be why you jumped to this conclusion, but in that case the best route to take is always to politely ask for further explanation before you make bold statements. You came out of the gate with backhanded comments to the judges regardless of whether you meant to which is why the hostility and downvotes came.

I remember a similar kind of conversation a few months ago when I judged Eona and you kind of ignored most of the reasons behind my dislike for her set up and boiled it down to "you must not like creativity". Which you echoed in your response to this critique. Yes, it was my preference that she not be set up like she was, but there were also several reasons (counterplay, player interactivity, fun factor) that I stated. I bet in this case the judges' decisions were based on more than personal preference just like mine was.

Raptamei1 votes

The way that comes off translates loosely to: I won in a different contest with a similar lore, so you are wrong to dislike it. The rest kind of blames the poor score on getting unlucky and instead of saying "could you be more specific on why you disliked it? I would like to fix the problems if they go beyond personal preference."

??????????

Go bait someone else plz. /done

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

One of the huge strengths of the MACFA was the emphasis on trying to create the best version of a concept by granting some bonus points in return for substantive critique on other contestants' concept.

To provide a bit of context, I actually required feedback to all concepts by the judges in the first month, but unfortunately no one was willing to do this for 42 concepts so that had to be scrapped. So while I highly encouraged it I simply couldn't enforce it without losing all the judges.

I actually also had a bonus prize lined up for whoever gave a decent bit of feedback across the contest to encourage the practice, but it proved to be very difficult to track across all the posts. The Boards does not allow for concept posting within the same thread as the contest so tracking specific people giving feedback will prove marginally more difficult I think. Not impossible by any means, and I agree with you that appropriately encouraged feedback is probably the biggest single improvement that could be made here.

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

Er, wait. That's me ranting against Boards.

Honestly no problem there. I may prefer the Boards but I'm not going to jump on you for pointing out obvious flaws like the lower character limit and the single downvote post-killing (also a small factor in the creation of the CCC). I will completely admit, imho, the Boards switch was too soon.

I think that the CCC....

Fair points, the issue between low barrier of entry and a core to build around is a juicy one I'll admit. I think it's simply a matter of audience size affecting priority. When I made the CCC there just wasn't enough people to allow for constricting conditionals.

Elphrihaim1 votes

The way that comes off translates loosely to: I won in a different contest with a similar lore, so you are wrong to dislike it. The rest kind of blames the poor score on getting unlucky and instead of saying "could you be more specific on why you disliked it? I would like to fix the problems if they go beyond personal preference."

He's consistently done this style of lore in the MCCC and gotten great scores with it. From multiple judges. And in comments in the threads. I would assume this is the background from which the question left unsaid was given? A biased perspective creating a datum instead of asking the question from which that datum came.

It's not so much what you're saying as much as how you're saying it. The way the judgements lacked a detailed explanation may be why you jumped to this conclusion, but in that case the best route to take is always to politely ask for further explanation before you make bold statements. You came out of the gate with backhanded comments to the judges regardless of whether you meant to which is why the hostility and downvotes came.

[I'm not sure about the MACFA nor how it has been done here before, but it always was the case that for the MCCC judges would take the time to make comprehensive reviews for people. And he didn't start with backhanded comments, he started with a question in the form of a statement-- "I guess judges don't like new takes on lore"? Not sure. Too lazy to find it. I would not see that as backhanded but rather making an observation, though I'm not sure.]

*I don't mean to add fuel to a fire, I am just curious. ;-; I am the cat.

IT'S THURSDAY-- THE DAY BEFORE ALL HALLOW'S EVE SO WHY IS THERE NOT ANY UPDATE FROM SIRARMAMALUM? [... it's 1:00 AM on the western seaboard of the United States, at least.]

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

IT'S THURSDAY-- THE DAY BEFORE ALL HALLOW'S EVE SO WHY IS THERE NOT ANY UPDATE FROM SIRARMAMALUM? [... it's 1:00 AM on the western seaboard of the United States, at least.]

I'm here, I'm here. Apologies. It the middle of exam week at Virginia Tech so I've been sloppy on getting back to this thread, very sorry. As far as the merger goes, I'm literally making a post about it now.

Otherwise as far as Raptamei's lore goes I personally liked it, well-written and smooth, not something you see in everyday writing. I will also say it's a far cry from what we've seen before in the CCC. Due to the character limit most concepts stuck with shorter lore more akin to the live lore. A lot of you have mentioned the overall subjectiveness of lore scoring and that's where I think we're running into an issue. Simply put, lore can be great in one contest and not as great in another due to an unconscious establishment of what good lore should resemble. This among a variety of other reasons is why a merger is happening. Hopefully we can get our standards aligned enough that roadbumps like this won't happen too often.

tau431 votes

Wow, I somehow missed this for a week. So close Rothmi, so close.

Also survey question: Who wants me to post the Vayne/Wraith short story I mentioned in Wraith's thread?

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