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Tui and La, The Servants of the Moon

Shroom Junkie··2 votes·1,414 views

EDIT: Keep in mind, this doesn't actually have to be "Servants of the Moon," nor would the abilities probably be exactly the same in-game, as with all champion ideas. They don't have to be black and white, they don't have to be star spirits, so they don't have to represent Kindred. Like I said, Tui and La is what its based off of, but it doesn't need nor would it probably be it.

NOTE: I'm terrible at putting together damage, defense, and unit(distance) numbers, so anything that seems overpowered or under-powered or just strange, please point out to me and don't harass me for it. Also, I need a name idea due to copyright purposes as I think problems would arise with Nickelodeon if they kept the names.

I'll use brackets as my own notes and not actually in the descriptions, if they were ever used, and parenthesis as in the actual description.

And yes, Lee Sin is affected by the ultimate.

Tui and La, inspired by the series Avatar: The Last Airbender's Moon and Ocean spirits, are two entities that work as one to create control and balance for their team. However, they will not be spirits but merely servants of the Moon, such as Diana is. Tui is the light(white) side, and La is the dark.

They focus upon tankiness and mana to keep in the fight and disrupt the enemy as much as they can.

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M5d1ec4bb949b115379d4c4042a72d1e3H0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=220&h=167

"Servants of the Moon" Passive - Tui and La are two separate entities, both with the same stats but different affects from abilities. Killing one side will kill the other and award a single kill[not two for taking out both entities]. They may only travel apart a distance of 1500 units away from eachother, indicated by a line that passes as far as it can between them that allies and enemies cannot see. They both have the same mana pool, and using mana will take the mana from both of them[basically meaning they have the same pool and there is no difference]. Their health bars however drain separately, and rather than one health bar, you have two side-by-side[as in the picture below[Obviously less mashed into place, but I suck at photoshop so deal with it]].

To control Tui, you will simply move as you usually would. To control La, you must hold CTRL and move them around. If one starts to go out of range, the other will automatically follow them from the maximum distance.

Flashing with one out of range will teleport the to the farthest point in range, and then move as normally. If one teleports, the other will be immobilized as well and both will land wherever they teleported, 100 units apart as if they canceled Full Moon. If they ghost, both get the boost.

http://i.imgur.com/Cn8pya3.png

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M9004593d732a90acaa5065d09989c81co0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300 "Push and Pull" Q - Tui and La and his clone tie gravity tether between themselves, pushing enemies away from the Light Side if closer to the Light Side, and pulling them to the Light Side if closer to the Dark Side and slowing them by 5/10/15/20/25%. Enemies, though impaired by the constant pushing and pulling and slow, can move aside or dash out from the tether to leave the CC.

[Lore Description] Tui and La use the moon's gravitational abilities to push and pull their enemies between them.

[Mana] 10/20/30/40/50 per second, toggled 2 second cooldown

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Mefd7c41c31496a0ae07207ddfe0238d5H0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=333&h=188 "Full Moon" W - Tui and La become one for 5 seconds, changing stats and removing ability casts besides Full Moon's second cast. Can be cast a second time to end the effect. When split apart, Tui and La are set 100 units away from eachother in a random direction, but will not hop over a wall to do so. Tui and La(as one) gain 10/20/30/40/50 bonus armor and magic resist, 100/150/200/250/300 health, 40% bonus movement speed, and 30% tenacity for the duration.

[Lore Description] Tui and La merge into one, granting increased durability, speed, and tenacity.

[Mana] 150 on cast 25 second cooldown after the effect

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M81c9873eec08562024c7a4ce57d6001aH0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300 "Star's Guidance" E - Random points of the map are shown in small 300 unit diameter circles(approximately 10-15 areas anywhere from the enemy base to your own jungle). Beams of light will shine down on the areas affected, indicating their positions better to allies and enemies.

[Lore Description] Tui and La call upon their brothers and sisters in the sky to give them knowledge of the battlefield.

[Mana] 50 20 second cooldown

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Mbc0d26a3dee65550a92612ef473650aeH0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=239&h=170 "Moonlight" R - Tui and La create a large light in a circular area from the reflection of the moon between them that constantly moves and forms with their placement, obscuring enemy vision in the area with a constantly changing fog-like vision(moving white with bits of slight transparency allowing for random vision on their screen) for 3/4/5 seconds. Enemies that leave the area are unaffected after, but if they go back in they will again take on the blinding light. Enemies that are in the area after the end will have a less powerful affect(more transparency) for another 1/2/3 seconds.

Enemies already blinded by Quinn's "Blinding Assault"(or other such blinds, such as Rek'sai's self-induced Burrow) will not have their small area of vision obscured.

Abilities giving vision to your enemies will show the target's position, but not their champion bars(health, mana, level, etc.)[they will see as if shown by a red trinket, but black figures rather than red]. They may be targeted by point-and-click abilities but if they try to click on them without any use, their champion portrait will not appear[showing champion stats such as AS, AD, Health, etc. in the upper-left corner]. If they come into the transparent parts of the fogged vision, whoever has them in their vision will see their champion bars[though not their allies].

After gaining the first level of "Moonlight" a circle indicating where the blind would affect will appear around them to Tui and La[but not allies or enemies]. A large beam of light will shine down for allies, indicating the area of effect.

[Lore Description] Tui and La call upon the moon to shed its light, blinding enemies in the area. All enemies still in the area after the light ends will take a moment to adjust their eyes before having their vision restored.

[Mana] 200 on cast 150 second cooldown

[Lore]

Tui and La are stars sent down in a physical form related to her sister's creatures, fish, by the moon to do her bidding, unbeknownst to the inhabitants of Runeterra, only coming out of the rays of the moon to complete a task, and only an urban legend unbelieved by most. After all, what would the moon want to do?

Tui and La are most commonly sent down as messengers from the moon to only the wisest or most devout of her followers, such as Diana, or cleaners of the ocean, disposing of any who threaten it.

After seeing Mount Targon and the Sun Worshiper's most devout follower and religious extremist, Leona, as well as her faithful servant Diana join the Institute of War, she sent down her servants to assist her in its battles whilst they remain unneeded elsewhere.

Allies - Diana

Enemies - Leona

Proficient Items/Builds:

item 3153 Two entities proccing BotRK means a lot of hits. The active doesn't help with catching up either, as it boosts both Tui and La.

item 3071 Both Tui and La proc the Black Cleaver with their AA's, letting them stack it fast while also adding to their damage, tankiness, and stickyness.

item 3800 Lets them and their team charge into battle and works well with "Full Moon," letting them initiate quickly while giving them tankiness and extra mana.

item 3004/item 3042 Tui and La can easily stack this item with their Q use as well as AA'ing, letting them gain mana for more Q usage, as well as giving AD for more damage on AA's and when upgraded to Muramana, can upgrade AA damage even further with the active toggle.

item 3742 Lets them build up speed to synergize with "Full Moon" and other movespeed granting items, like Righteous Glory or BotRK active, letting them engage easily. It also gives them both the chance to proc its active, giving them good damage and can slow the enemy.

item 3102 Allows them both to dodge a CC when the passive is activated, and let them stick easier with their "Push and Pull" while also making them tankier with the MR and health.

item 3111 These boots add to Tui and La's "Full Moon" tenacity, allowing them to charge into battle and ignore more CC from the enemy while also making them tanker with the magic resist.

item 3009 These boots add a lot of movespeed to both Tui and La, plus slow resistances to stack with their "Full Moon" tenacity and let them stick on targets with their "Push and Pull" easier.

Works well with:

Diana Twi and La can hold her targets in place for an easy Q-R engage, and Diana can pull them back into the radius of "Push and Pull" if they try to escape.

Azir Tui and La can keep enemies in one place, allowing for Azir to land easy soldier hits. Azir can also ult enemies back into "Push and Pull" or slow them after they escape with Q to allow Tui and La to get the enemy back into the tether effect.

Amumu Amumu can use his ult to give Tui and La a perfect chance to merge with "Full Moon" and use their ultimate to blind all enemies around them.

Is countered by:

RekSai Rek'sai's burrow allows for her allies to see the positions of allies even in Tui and La's ultimate if her allies are moving, as well as her Q allows for a basic idea of where somebody is even if they aren't moving. She can also lock down and kill Tui or La easily with her burrow and their lack of mobility.

Heimerdinger While Twi and La's ultimate can blind enemies, it cannot blind Heimerdinger's turrets, allowing for them to continue to shoot at allies, and give enemies an idea of where an ally is due to the turret's yellow bullets. Twi and La's Q is also ineffective as it cannot stop his turrets from shooting, and Heimerdinger can easily use Zhonya's Hourglass active to put himself in stasis and let his turrets widdle Twi and La and their allies down if they try to wait for his stasis to end.

Kalista Even though Twi and La can push and pull Kalista, she can easily use her passive to dash out of it and slow Twi or La, or both with Runaan's Hurricane, by using her Rend on them, and with effective kiting can also run from Twi and La merged with "Full Moon" even with their movement speed buff.

12 Comments

Digielf2 votes

Kindred is already in the game

Shroom Junkie2 votes

Kindred has nothing to do with Twi and La, nor the moon, nor do they really act as two people as Wolf is basically a particle effect rather than a second being.

Despair Virus1 votes

sassy response , i like it :)

Arakadia2 votes

Seems a little too much like Kindred. Black and White, Duo Spirits, etc.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Well obviously their lore could be changed. Heck, they could be science wiz twins from Piltover who stuck magnets on themselves and made some blinding flash grenade. Obviously then the W would need to be changed, but we can only assume a lot of the idea would be changed.

Anyway, I hated Kindred, to be honest. They took "duo spirits" and made it into one champion hopping around with a bow and arrow and a particle effect and it was just disgraceful. I made this idea wanting to get another one of those, but more like an actual duo-champion.

Fondling Gems1 votes

To be honest I haven't read much of it, but I feel the need to post about something right from the get go. Significantly changing how a champ moves (I do not count kalista as overall she still completes a similar action to attack moving) is not good for gameplay. It makes a champ all but impossible to use unless you put in massive amounts of time and effort. If you want your idea to be at all reasonable and playable in league then you have to get rid of the ctrl move function. I don't know how much this would effect the kit but you could make the ult a no cooldown (aka a .1 sec cd) way to swap which one you are controlling. You then run into the issue of which one takes dmg? If you flash forward then is the one following you just going to flash into the skillshot and take dmg? Is it going to follow more slowly and take dmg? If it does not take dmg then you run into the issue that you could swap position to dodge skillshots. Until you work these issues out it really doesn't matter what your kit is like, it just wont work as a champ, let me know if you fix these issues and I would be happy to give some feedback on the kit.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

I thought about adding the ult as a switch... but it seems too... unreliable. To play Tui and La, you would have to rely on quick reactions on both parts to do what you're going to do. And though it does require a high skill floor, it would be very simple if you had the reaction down to quickly switch between controls. I guess the ultimate could instead interact as the CTRL key would, but I feel like without a real ultimate, they would be a bit underpowered. I guess I could remove their W and instead put it as the CTRL key? But to make it a quick switch wouldn't be quick enough. You'd have to set points and places to move for both of them on the spot and doing it like you propose just wouldn't allow that.

As for flashing, it would be hard to do it, but given you're good at playing the game you could even make awesome plays by flashing one of the entities(holding CTRL to flash with La) and forcing the other to teleport with them. Also, I'll add that if one flashes or is grabbed by a Thresh Lantern, they'll teleport to the furthest possible spot then move as usual(like Shen's sword passive). If they teleport I guess they could be 100 units away as if they stopped the Full Moon move? And if they ghost both entities would move at the same speed.

Fondling Gems1 votes

first of all both nid and elise have transformation ults and while tui and la don't change skills it doesn't mean that they can't be strong. also if the switch was instant there is no delay difference between hitting r and holding ctrl, in fact only having to hit the button would make it easier to use other skills. I am also not sure about that leash range, 100 units is pretty short in league and assuming each of the bodies is about 200 units long (which is pretty small) and they are leashed from the tail end of one to the head of the one following then flashing would instantly cause the 2nd one to teleport to almost exactly where the first one was standing, meaning that flashing in a similar direction to the one you are traveling in to dodge skills would be impossible. I am also just going to rephrase what I said before. A champ should never rely on learning a completely and fundamentally new mechanic. Tui and La revolve around their positioning to each other that trying to play without knowing how it works would lead to a frustrating and not enjoyable experience. Even champs with strange mechanics (azir, kalista, bard) are all still completely playable and usable until you figure out how to use them properly. Making a champ with unusual movement that only effects one ability (I know, I actually read the stuff) isn't very user friendly, it is just kinda like "this ability will just do pretty much whatever until you figure out how to use your strange movement" This is especially bad when the champs doesn't have a single way to hurt people other than autos. If i had to play this champ I would just max w, build AD tank and just nuzzle them to death laughing while their cc does almost nothing. Think a fast irelia with no built in sustain, no dash, and a lot of vision stuff. It just isn't realistic to give a champ unreliable soft cc, a strange blind ult, defensive stats, and the ability to give unreliable vision. There just isn't any reason to play this over another champ.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

first of all both nid and elise have transformation ults and while tui and la don't change skills it doesn't mean that they can't be strong.

They aren't supposed to be like Nidalee and Elise though, they're supposed to be two separate entities working together, not two separate skill sets.

also if the switch was instant there is no delay difference between hitting r and holding ctrl, in fact only having to hit the button would make it easier to use other skills.

There are no "other skills," they both have the same skills. Did you even try to skim over the champion before making a judgement? And to hit R constantly to move each would be too annoying, you couldn't make split second decisions and move both of them in a millisecond, even with 0 cooldown on the R ability. It needs to be something you can press to instantly take control and let go to instantly take control of the other entity. Even if you can switch immediately with this idea, you would still have to take the time to press the button which could mean life or death in this, as a Network Developer said, "Game of milliseconds."

I am also not sure about that leash range, 100 units is pretty short in league and assuming each of the bodies is about 200 units long (which is pretty small) and they are leashed from the tail end of one to the head of the one following then flashing would instantly cause the 2nd one to teleport to almost exactly where the first one was standing, meaning that flashing in a similar direction to the one you are traveling in to dodge skills would be impossible.

Their leash range is 1500 units, not 100. If you mean them teleporting next to eachother, like I said, I'm bad at units. I based most of it off of Teemo, so I guess 300 units away when they teleported would be fine.

I am also just going to rephrase what I said before. A champ should never rely on learning a completely and fundamentally new mechanic. Tui and La revolve around their positioning to each other that trying to play without knowing how it works would lead to a frustrating and not enjoyable experience.

Why not? A champ being completely new and unique is what catches someone's attention. Graves was called really neat and everyone was excited for him after they heard about the ammo system and AOE autoattacks. Azir also caught the community's attention with his soldiers autoattacking for him and moving around, and him making sick E-Q drifting plays. A champion with two controllable entities all the time like a Shaco ult or LeBlanc passive would make people absolutely freak. And sure, people will suck in the beginning, but like Bard, people will grow to become better and people will love to have Tui and La on their team and be afraid of them on the enemy. Tui and La trade an extremely high skill floor for a strong kit and two separate meat shields.

Even champs with strange mechanics (azir, kalista, bard) are all still completely playable and usable until you figure out how to use them properly. Making a champ with unusual movement that only effects one ability (I know, I actually read the stuff) isn't very user friendly, it is just kinda like "this ability will just do pretty much whatever until you figure out how to use your strange movement"

Apparently you didn't "read the stuff" because you'd have known that it affects their Q and R, not to mention its two meat shields, both in which can proc on-hits. Imagine squishy Tui and La, charging forward with their Full Moon and then both autoattacking with a BotRK and a Duskblade proccing twice. Or Tui and La both with 200 armor and 4000 health, then enhancing it with Full Moon and being unstoppable until they get into the middle of your team, blind you, and lock down your carry.

Tui and La would be perfectly playable. How do you think Shaco's use their ultimate so well? I'm Silver and can use it proficiently, granted I am a Shaco main, still. Its easily usable and learned after several tries.

This is especially bad when the champs doesn't have a single way to hurt people other than autos.

Again, two people autoattacking. How does this strike you as a bad way to hurt people? Olaf only autos and he was pretty powerful for a time before he got the nerf-hammer. He just charged in and started autoattacking with his BotRK and tankiness. Sound familiar?

If i had to play this champ I would just max w, build AD tank and just nuzzle them to death laughing while their cc does almost nothing. Think a fast irelia with no built in sustain, no dash, and a lot of vision stuff. It just isn't realistic to give a champ unreliable soft cc, a strange blind ult, defensive stats, and the ability to give unreliable vision. There just isn't any reason to play this over another champ.

There's a lot of reasons.

Build BoTRK+Black Cleaver/Muramana+Dead Man's Plate+Righteous Glory+Banshee's Veil+Mercury's Treads Suddenly both are using the BotRK on-hit, they can stack Black Cleaver stacks extremely fast, or for mana use their Q a lot and AA to stack, and also up their AA damage when upgraded, they both proc Dead Man's Plate and go faster with it, plus it and Righteous Glory lets them charge into battle with their W and BotRK active, and Mercury's Treads and Banshee's Veil help with CC like Full Moon.

I would pick this easily over many champs. I can see this champ being OP even by a proficient player.

Fondling Gems1 votes

They aren't supposed to be like Nidalee and Elise though, they're supposed to be two separate entities working together, not two separate skill sets.

I wasn't saying that, I was simply saying that having a skill to change forms doesn't make a champ weaker

There are no "other skills," they both have the same skills. Did you even try to skim over the champion before making a judgement? And to hit R constantly to move each would be too annoying, you couldn't make split second decisions and move both of them in a millisecond, even with 0 cooldown on the R ability. It needs to be something you can press to instantly take control and let go to instantly take control of the other entity. Even if you can switch immediately with this idea, you would still have to take the time to press the button which could mean life or death in this, as a Network Developer said, "Game of milliseconds."

I meant that hitting R once means that you can still use your other 3 skills more easily than trying to hit those other 3 skills while holding ctrl. The only difference between holding ctrl to move La and pressing r to move La is that it is easier to understand and get used to if it is on R

Why not? A champ being completely new and unique is what catches someone's attention. Graves was called really neat and everyone was excited for him after they heard about the ammo system and AOE autoattacks. Azir also caught the community's attention with his soldiers autoattacking for him and moving around, and him making sick E-Q drifting plays. A champion with two controllable entities all the time like a Shaco ult or LeBlanc passive would make people absolutely freak. And sure, people will suck in the beginning, but like Bard, people will grow to become better and people will love to have Tui and La on their team and be afraid of them on the enemy. Tui and La trade an extremely high skill floor for a strong kit and two separate meat shields.

Honestly that kit is weak. There is 0 dmg, 1 weak slow/push on a very high mana cost at later levels, 1 blind, and vision that you can't control. Imagine trying to play garen, as he is the most similar champ i can think of, without using a single ability. They are either going to be squishy or do no dmg and their tankyness is useless because people will just ignore them because all they can do is be annoying. Sure people will want to TRY them, but their kit would not be enjoyable. It is a support with 0 sustain, 0 hard cc, 0 trading ability, and almost no utility. They will get poked out because they are melee, regardless of what lane they are in, and they ca't trade with anyone because they do no dmg.

Apparently you didn't "read the stuff" because you'd have known that it affects their Q and R, not to mention its two meat shields, both in which can proc on-hits. Imagine squishy Tui and La, charging forward with their Full Moon and then both autoattacking with a BotRK and a Duskblade proccing twice. Or Tui and La both with 200 armor and 4000 health, then enhancing it with Full Moon and being unstoppable until they get into the middle of your team, blind you, and lock down your carry.

The R is on a super long cd and is pretty lackluster. All you are doing is making one person unable to do ranged damage as long as you stay near them. In other words you are doing nothing that a Poppy ult can't do better. If you go squishy you will pop because you have no gap closer, and any team with a knockback will just push you off the carry and you will do nothing. Even with all that tank you will never be able to 1v1 the carry even if you win lane which is impossible because you do no dmg and can't trade and have to go melee to cs.

Again, two people autoattacking. How does this strike you as a bad way to hurt people? Olaf only autos and he was pretty powerful for a time before he got the nerf-hammer. He just charged in and started autoattacking with his BotRK and tankiness. Sound familiar?

Olaf has a passive that lets him auto faster the lower his health is, he gets free lifesteal and attack speed from his w, he can cs/harrass with q, He does true dmg that can be cast the more he autos, and his ult gives him AD. He can get by without a gapcloser because he can go cc immune, gets a speed boost, and has a high dmg slow that refreshes as he chases them. Tui and La have no way to buff their dmg output, something that every auto attacking champ has. having 2 of them attacking will help increase their dmg output but to make use of that they have to go ad and once again you run into the issue of getting blown up like any squishy ad champ who is melee and has no gapcloser. On top of that it would be super hard to always use q correctly. It would not be that rare for people playing to push away their target instead of slowing them, and They need that slow to stick to people.

Build BoTRK+Black Cleaver+Dead Man's Plate+Righteous Glory+Banshee's Veil+Mercury's Treads Suddenly both are using the BotRK on-hit, they can stack Black Cleaver stacks extremely fast, they both proc Dead Man's Plate, plus it and Righteous Glory lets them charge into battle with their W and BotRK active, and Mercury's Treads and Banshee's Veil help with CC like Full Moon

Your only attack speed is coming from botrk. So you actually will not stack that cleaver very fast, and botrk isn't going to be nonstop hitting. Any other AD melee bruiser is going to stack faster simply because they attack faster, and they have abilities to stack cleaver as well. Even with 2 auto attacks a champ with 0 AD or Attack Speed or Lifesteal buffs and no dashes just isn't going to do well in lane or in teamfights. They are so item dependent with no way to safely cs that there wouldn't be a situation where they are useful to their team until they have 4-5 items.

Like you I am a silver player. However I am not good at league. From a skill standpoint I should probably be stuck in bronze. The reason that I am silver is because I have a strong understanding of every champ in the game. I have no qualms about throwing my Taric against champs I have never played and almost never see because what I AM good at in league is understanding damage outputs. Less than 1 in 10 fights that I choose to fight turn out bad for my lane. This statistic didn't change after the adc rework. It didn't matter that cd's and abilities were changed on both sides of the lane. My sense of damage output and just how far champs can be pushed is very good even though I don't always have the skill to back my choices up. I also love theory crafting. I love thinking about how small changes in numbers could buff or nerf champs in different situations. I am telling you, having a melee champ, with no offensive abilities or hard cc, or even reliable cc is not a good idea. What is the point in making an AD tank/bruiser that grants sporadic vision across the map? Why make a pure utility champ that doesn't change the stats of a single champ on the map? Why make 2 champs that merge but can't use abilities while merged and are only statistically strong when merged? I love that you are trying new ideas out and I definitely think you should keep doing this. However you asked for other peoples input. This is mine.

Your champ cannot work in league as it is. You have to think of what is required for a champ to succeed in league and make an impact. You have to have your champs be user friendly enough so that anyone can play them decently without looking at their abilities until they are in game. Don't just think of cool abilities that fit the champ's theme, think of why the champ should have those abilities over other abilities or over other champs. If you are really interested in thinking of new champs then ask yourself these questions. As advice from one theory crafter to another, and someone who has made the same mistakes that you are making, don't keep working on this champ. Maybe at a later date you can look back and rework this kit, but for now think of a new champ concept. Look up random non LoL related art and find something that seems interesting, make a kit off of that "Champion" Think about how it would fit in game and what it would bring to league that isn't already there. If you ever have any questions then feel free to ask. I don't want you to stop what you are doing, I just want to help lead you down the right paths.

Remember that first ideas never work. In fact pretty much every idea you come up with is going to be shot down. That is how these things work. But among the criticism is ideas, and ways to improve, and eventually you will start to figure out just what goes in a kit. How to make a kit unique, but understandable, interesting, but playable. And eventually, if you keep learning about how champs fit into league, One of the kits you post might even inspire a Rioter who sees it. And it will go through another stage in its development and maybe even become a champ. It is all we can hope for. That and adding it to your portfolio if you ever want to try and work at Riot.

Anyways I just spent the last 40 minutes typing/looking up statistics on Olaf so I am going to wish you luck and hope you have fun on the Rift.

Cya, RangerOfShadows

P.S. Feel free to friend me in game if you ever want to play or have questions

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't saying that, I was simply saying that having a skill to change forms doesn't make a champ weaker

I meant that hitting R once means that you can still use your other 3 skills more easily than trying to hit those other 3 skills while holding ctrl. The only difference between holding ctrl to move La and pressing r to move La is that it is easier to understand and get used to if it is on R

Honestly that kit is weak. There is 0 dmg, 1 weak slow/push on a very high mana cost at later levels, 1 blind, and vision that you can't control. Imagine trying to play garen, as he is the most similar champ i can think of, without using a single ability. They are either going to be squishy or do no dmg and their tankyness is useless because people will just ignore them because all they can do is be annoying. Sure people will want to TRY them, but their kit would not be enjoyable. It is a support with 0 sustain, 0 hard cc, 0 trading ability, and almost no utility. They will get poked out because they are melee, regardless of what lane they are in, and they ca't trade with anyone because they do no dmg.

Yep... You never read a single thing fully in this post, did you? I'm just going to stop reading here until you can tell me that you fully read through the post, and then explain what everything was in at least minor detail, because you're arguments are just annoying at this point because you have no understanding of what you're trying to argue about.

Fondling Gems1 votes

I did read the full post and I am honestly unsure of what I am saying that is still confusing you

I wasn't saying that, I was simply saying that having a skill to change forms doesn't make a champ weaker

This started as me recommending that you use an ult key to switch control as it is easier for players who are new to the champ to understand. You argued that not having an ult would make the champ lackluster. I pointed out that there are other champs who have ults that simply change what you are controlling and those champs are still strong. At no point did I say that Tui and La had 2 separate kits. I was just pointing out a fault in your logic there.

I meant that hitting R once means that you can still use your other 3 skills more easily than trying to hit those other 3 skills while holding ctrl. The only difference between holding ctrl to move La and pressing r to move La is that it is easier to understand and get used to if it is on R

I am seriously unsure as to how I can make this any clearer. Having to move and hold an out of the way button to swap controls is much more annoying and difficult to do than having a toggle button that is right next to your other skills.

Honestly that kit is weak. There is 0 dmg, 1 weak slow/push on a very high mana cost at later levels, 1 blind, and vision that you can't control. Imagine trying to play garen, as he is the most similar champ i can think of, without using a single ability. They are either going to be squishy or do no dmg and their tankyness is useless because people will just ignore them because all they can do is be annoying. Sure people will want to TRY them, but their kit would not be enjoyable. It is a support with 0 sustain, 0 hard cc, 0 trading ability, and almost no utility. They will get poked out because they are melee, regardless of what lane they are in, and they ca't trade with anyone because they do no dmg.

Since I just explained why they are unviable and then you said that I read nothing I don't know what I can do other than dumb this down as much as possible.

You have a melee champ with no way to waveclear or farm

If you are going tank then you are still going to get harassed hard by any champ whenever you try to farm

If you go AD then you are going to hurt even more with the only difference being that after 1-2 backs you will still be taking just as much dmg since you are going AD

Since the ONLY way this champ can do damage is by procing on hit effects, and those items take time to ramp up and are not the cheapest items you can do nothing early game other than a pretty weak pull/push

You can never 1v1 someone in lane because even if you somehow have the damage to out trade them you do no burst, only sustained dmg and they can just walk back to turret, something that your blind does nothing to stop.

You can only get to people in w form but you lose out on 1/2 your dmg this way. If you activate Q then as both your forms attack they will be pulled and pushed by equal amounts because they would both be the same distance away. In other words you are using 10-50 mana every second to do nothing.

Since you can not easily farm vs a single champ in the game because you have no way to cs from range and you rely on on-hit effects to do your dmg (And you don't have those items early) you are going to get pushed off cs. Champs that auto attack for most of their dmg tend to be strongest mid to late game. The fact that you need a muramana and a botrk means just to output dmg means that at the earliest you cannot turn on until mid game at the earliest. Since you have no way to farm you will just be poked out and not get to farm early so realistically you will not hit your full power spikes until late game.

This is a champ who (under no circumstances short of a nonstop camp of their lane) cannot win lane. Camping their lane isn't even very useful as they still need to stack up their items even if they get ahead early so from a jglers standpoint, it is one of the worst champs to camp for. As an auto attack oriented champ they basically have a constant 100% attack speed buff at all stages of the game (which is not even that good) and going faster/slightly tankier/safer literally cuts your dmg in half. So you either do no dmg because you have no offensive stat boosts and are building on hit with only a botrk for attack speed. OR you do do decent damage but can just get cc'd down, kited out, and blown up because you gave up all your defensive stats. This is why your champ cannot fit in league.

As I said before I love that you are thinking outside the box but you have to understand that most of the ideas that people come up with just will not work in league. I am honestly trying to help you out and I am not being mean. I am being honest and telling you what can and cannot work in league so that you can improve. I have read through your champs info and I have considered what it would accomplish in league. I am assuming you posted your champ here to get peoples input. I am just trying to give you input to the best of my ability. There is no reason to be getting snarky with me. All of my points are valid arguments and from what you have been saying in reply to me you seem to think your champ is perfect and it seems like you don't want to hear that there is anything wrong with it. If you are not willing to accept the fact that something you created has flaws and could be improved upon then I don't see what else there is for me to say here. I could rephrase my arguments 100 times to make them as clear and specific as possible but if you are just like "You don't know what you are talking about" without actually saying what I am incorrect about.

If you actually want input then post replies as a single argument about a single point that you think I was wrong on. I will explain my reasoning about that single point as clearly as I can. If you can't be bothered to read my entire comments then I can't be bothered to keep writing multi paragraph explanations of the faults in your champion.

(And yes there is a difference between me not reading your whole post at first and you not reading my whole comment. My first post was purely on the point that using the ctrl key move function as a central part to your champ was not a good itea. On the other hand you didn't read the entirety of my comment simply because you didn't understand my points without bothering to consider that I, just maybe, just might, have actually explained my points in my comment about why there are flaws in your champ design)

The best part of this is that if you do the same thing and don't read this whole comment you are just gonna waste time writing a big long comment as suppose to a specific question about one part of the kit and I won't have to respond.

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