Vladimir, the Crimson Reaper. What direction should Riot take with him? (Monster post)

Melledoneus··9 votes·934 views

Vladimir is an interesting champion, who's kept at a relatively (for the top lane anyhoo) weaker state because his play style provides little room for... straight from Riot's favorite word bank choices... counterplay and interaction.

So what can we do to rework Vladimir in a way we can all live with? First, we have to analyse his strengths and see which can be swapped out for something else.

Vladimir's strengths: -The god of sustain (overstatement?) -Amazing waveclear -The ultimate late game monster -His passive means he doesn't need to build tank items -Damage amplification for the whole team -Pressing W to say "Nope" -Not having to aim

So, that last one is fun for Vlad players, but proves to be an issue. How do you outplay somebody or beat somebody who is basically playing a champion destined to ruin you? Let's find out Here are Vlad's weaknesses for reference:

Vladimir's weaknesses: -Heavy health costs on W and E -Sustain is so-so early on -Really squishy in the early laning phase -No mobility -Extremely short range -His boss -Has to deal damage in rounds, after that has to recharge -Grievous wounds and %HP damage -Any soft CC will screw up his groove -Not having Blood Lord Vlad

Obviously, that one was a joke. Or was it? Ahem. Regardless, we can see that Vlad's weaknesses include melee fighters like Irelia and Renekton due to their ability to out-trade him and survive his damage. Not to mention sustain as well as him. Other weaknesses are ranged top laners like Jayce or Kennen, who can harass Vlad and punish him hard. And people who just simply shred him, like Swain and Fiora, don't give him a chance to replenish ye olde blood well, so Vlad loses there, too.

**So have I been wasting your time talking about something you can read on a MoBafire guide? It's all perspective. But let's use this knowledge to our advantage to brainstorm something. **

#Concept 1: Utilizing wounds When I was writing my Talon fan fiction... thing (a story for another time), I delved deep into Vladimir. I realized that he has these weird claws that make him look like a wannabe mole, and I thought, "why?" Then it hit me. Vladimir uses his claws to open wounds. Vladimir's power consists of moving and controlling blood, but if that was the case why can't he just blow everyone up like this is Fist of the North Star? Because the blood needs to be given a place to flow outside in order to retrieve it, which is why Vlad's Q animation comprises of spikes piercing his opponent. So here's a thought: make it a mechanic.

Vladimir's entire kit could revolve around opening more and more wounds in order to draw blood from his opponents more efficiently. They could make this work by making his sustain tied to his Q, but make it so that his passive grants a greater percentage based on how much HP his opponent is missing. His E could still be AoE, but instead of a lock-on blood storm, it could be him doing something cooler, like letting out a literal tide of blood from within his hitbox. This not only gives time to react to Vlad (letting him have more range), but also can create some cool interactions with his W that lets him absorb the blood from the tide back into his pool and heal upon re-emerging. It's a bit of a stretch, but the point is this:

Vladimir's playstyle would resemble one of slowly but surely whittling down his opponent with good positioning in order to create advantages. Almost as if he's toying with them, which would be perfect since he's known to be an avid sadist. Finally, when his opponent is low enough, he can zone them because they know that he can execute them with his passive amplification, meaning that Vladimir has the innate advantage if he can harass you. Opponents could avoid this by harassing Vladimir, forcing him to play passive because his sustain options are limited and his abilities would kill him faster. This would encourage players to play around Vladimir's abilities, and reward good plays from both Vladimir and his opponent during the laning phase.

#Concept 2: The Leech As we all know, leeches are those black worm things that suck your blood (and clean it from fatty materials, but let's not talk about that for the sake of the comparison). Vladimir could be less "all-in, get bursted" and more "Little by little, I will drain your life." Vladimir has a quote that inspired this concept, where he says "trickling progress." Now, you may see where I'm going with this. For those who don't, here's the short version: Vladimir's entire playstyle will revolve around staying relatively near his target, draining them slowly at first but accelerating rapidly if they don't stop him.

There are several ways to execute this, but here's one I personally like: Vladimir's passive lets him choose a target to leech off of, and as long as he stays within the set range his abilities will grant him more HP. The more he stays withing the range, the more %damage amplification and HP drain there will be. The closer Vladimir gets, the faster the passive gets stronger. Creepy, right? Here's how his moveset would work. Think of his Q right now. Let's give it the Darius treatment and give it a delay. Over a second, if Vlad charges his Q (don't worry, still targeted) fully, he gets the whole deal. If it is cut off voluntarily (for example, you get ganked by the rest of their team and Baron Nashor and need to RUN) or the target leaves the tether range, the damage and healing is cut off based on how much the Q charged up. You can make this fair by slowing Vlad's movement speed or making the tether range short in order to make the Q heavy damage, but the "avoid and reward" system must be there. His E could be the same, except if it hits more targets it deals more damage. So DON'T FIGHT VLAD IN YOUR MINION WAVE. We could also let it go slow a bit, to give Vlad the tools he needs to keep his target on the radar. There are many directions, but here's the gist:

Vlad will be easier to deal with should you have some way to pressure him because of his methods of killing you, which are relatively slow but hit HARD. Tanks, unfortunately, usually don't have the tools to combat Vlad (Sion, Shen, and Maokai are large exceptions to this rule) because they lack sufficient damage to scare Vlad out of his Q. Vladimir will be strong against the likes of Singed, Shen, and Dr. Mundo because his abilities will drain a percentage of their health, and his presence in team fights will consist of either whittling down the front line or screwing over the back line, instead of just nuking the entire team.

Ok, I'll stop there. Sorry for the long read, hopefully this wasn't too boring to read, unless if you're reading this somewhere boring like a bus or the toilet or something. Tell me your thoughts and what other rework ideas you may have, tell me how terrible I am at balance, or how stupid my username is. Constructive criticism will be accepted with open arms.

Oh, and if you want to be mean and downvote me, here's a message for you.

36 Comments

WoonStruck1 votes

The majority of Vlad's sustain comes from WotA in gameplay, not his Q's innate sustain. The only significant sustain from Q is the ratio after 400 AP. That can be gated somewhere else in his kit if he truly needs it. I'd be fine with losing the rest because its unnoticeable in lane unless its abusive, since its never enough to make hard lanes safer. You have to get safety from your gameplay, not your sustain.

Outside of that, change his E and Q interaction. Q CD is normally very high. If you hit with E, CD goes down by an amount. More champions, higher CD reduction. Works on minions, but 1/4 effective. Maybe less. Makes it so he pushes very hard if he wants to be aggressive or sustain. Can't spam Q a lot for harass+sustain. You'd give up the sustain using E for the CD reduction.

His W AoE should honestly scale with HP.

His ult needs to go because it holds back his kit. Its too potent team-wise. He will innately always be weaker just for having it, and it doesn't feel very cohesive with his kit, especially since he has a huge delay after using it before he can cast anything other than W.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

The majority of Vlad's sustain comes from WotA in gameplay, not his Q's innate sustain. The only significant sustain from Q is the ratio after 400 AP.

I am aware of this, and that's not usually something people cared about if it wasn't for two things:

  1. Vladimir can trade with you, and even if he loses he can just fall back on minions to heal for free.
  2. The ability has no way to play around it other than "stay 600 range away from him at all times."

Don't get me wrong, I love Vlad's Q. It's fun for me, but it's holding back his kit in the way that it inherently works. In a world where everything needs a way to play around it, I feel like we could at least get creative with it rather than Riot completely removing the sustain from it like they did with other champions.

I'd be fine with losing the rest because its unnoticeable in lane unless its abusive, since its never enough to make hard lanes safer. You have to get safety from your gameplay, not your sustain.

Agreed. But Vladimir's Q doesn't really give much in terms of gameplay other than "you get hurt, I get healed." I envisioned that with more oomph, where you get punished hard if you don't remove the parasite that feeding off you.

Outside of that, change his E and Q interaction. Q CD is normally very high. If you hit with E, CD goes down by an amount. More champions, higher CD reduction. Works on minions, but 1/4 effective. Maybe less. Makes it so he pushes very hard if he wants to be aggressive or sustain. Can't spam Q a lot for harass+sustain. You'd give up the sustain using E for the CD reduction.

That's a good idea, but I feel like it would make him absolutely insane in team fights and terrible in 1v1. I think Q being his only inherent sustain tool and on a high cooldown isn't the best decision for somebody meant to be the king of sustain. However, maybe we could make an iteration where his Q cooldown scales off damage and spell vamp? I don't know, wanna hear your thoughts on this one.

His W AoE should honestly scale with HP.

Doesn't it already?

「 MAGIC DAMAGE PER HALF SECOND: 20 / 33.75 / 47.5 / 61.25 / 75 (+ 3.75% bonus health) 」

Unless you're talking about the actual AoE size, then I think it could contribute to the idea of the "late game is best game" mentality Vladimir players already have etched into their minds.

His ult needs to go because it holds back his kit. Its too potent team-wise. He will innately always be weaker just for having it, and it doesn't feel very cohesive with his kit, especially since he has a huge delay after using it before he can cast anything other than W.

His ultimate is weird. It's good for team fights, but only in the most specific circumstance where you somehow get into the middle of their team, ult them, get a full combo on them then get to W all of them and destroy them. But when you do pull it off, it's insane. I remember that's how I got my only Vladimir pentakill when the enemy was all grouped inside dragon pit.

I feel like the actual mechanic doesn't fit. So we have a guy who steals HP, hits everything around him to get them lower and stacks invisible stats, has a pool that hurts so he can be hard to hit, and his ultimate should be something that ties those together, right? But it's just DFG on crack. I feel like his ultimate should FEEL like an ultimate, not just another utility tool that can be slapped on an offensive support item. Something that contributes to the "juggernaut mage" fantasy that is Vladimir. Any ideas?

WoonStruck1 votes

I didn't say that's the go-to answer for Q/E. But his damage is going to remain similar most likely, just more...avoidable for the enemy by some stretch.

Vlad isn't supposed to be the king of sustain. He's not a vampire, he's a blood mage. Using his own health or the health of his enemies for selfish power is the focus of blood magic. Hell, blood magic reconstructs the user, not directly heals. If anything you can balance it more easily by making it HP5. Remove the flat heal to stop early game abuse; tie the ratio to level 5 Q or level 2+ ult. Maybe even W. Late game healing isn't an issue in Riot's eyes. Its no worse than ADCs.

My honest thoughts on what to do with him though?

make both passive halves generally equal in power. This means more AP from health. But only the most powerful of the two functions at a time

Whatever Riot wants to do with Q, as long as its semi-consistent, ranged, and low CD. ONLY scales on AP

W size scales off health.

E costs % health. Same cost when full AP, effectively more when building HP. Lower damage from AP, but has an HP ratio that scales with stacks as well, unlike the AP ratio.

R is a toggle that functions like Morphling's E/D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Morphling

Gives him more options. HP with a focus on sustain for AoE damage (since you get less sustain from raw damage). Ap for a focus on single target DPS.

Makes more interesting use of his passive, makes his W a little more dynamic and worth it when full HP.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say that's the go-to answer for Q/E. But his damage is going to remain similar most likely, just more...avoidable for the enemy by some stretch.

Perhaps that will be the case. These were just ideas I came up with. An idea will never be a good one unless you tell someone.

Vlad isn't supposed to be the king of sustain. He's not a vampire, he's a blood mage. Using his own health or the health of his enemies for selfish power is the focus of blood magic. Hell, blood magic reconstructs the user, not directly heals. If anything you can balance it more easily by making it HP5.

I see most champions' HP bars as how many hits they can take before they finally give up and die. For Vlad, it's how much blood he has to work with. So using his own blood by piercing himself to inflict wounds on others... it's a very creative idea. As for HP/5, I feel like he would be too similar to Swain and Mundo if it was regen. I think the fact that Vlad has windows of sustain and damage is great, but it can be tweaked quite a bit.

My honest thoughts on what to do with him though?

make both passive halves generally equal in power. This means more AP from health. But only the most powerful of the two functions at a time

This could incentivize alternate tank builds. I like it!

Needless to say, I'd hate to see a second Tahm Kench or pre-nerf Sejuani. I feel like the HP is there to reward building items like Rylai's and Spirit Visage.

Whatever Riot wants to do with Q, as long as its semi-consistent, ranged, and low CD. ONLY scales on AP

I agree. But would you, as a Vlad player, be ok with having a much more potent Q in favor of a more gradual playstyle? Say his E actually becomes threatening early on, what do you think about having a slower but harder-hitting Q?

W size scales off health.

I'm considering this. But should it count max HP or bonus?

E costs % health. Same cost when full AP, effectively more when building HP. Lower damage from AP, but has an HP ratio that scales with stacks as well, unlike the AP ratio.

I feel like that would turn him into Aatrox. %HP costs on someone who becomes tanky is a double-edged sword. Regardless, I feel like it's a good idea if it wasn't a lock-on ability. Because then you end up with the same issues as before.

R is a toggle that functions like Morphling's E/D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Morphling

I really think making his ult a toggle would piss off Vlad mains. They would argue that they don't want to be Anivia or Swain, but Vlad. Maybe his ultimate could give him something crucial, like an AoE drain similar to Morgana's ult except it continually drains every 40 frames or so rather than every .5 seconds. Or something that enhances his regular abilities when activated?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

I'm considering this. But should it count max HP or bonus?

Current relative to bonus.

I feel like that would turn him into Aatrox. %HP costs on someone who becomes tanky is a double-edged sword. Regardless, I feel like it's a good idea if it wasn't a lock-on ability. Because then you end up with the same issues as before.

He's a mage and it rewards building HP in some way. It could do with less consistency. Maybe a cone instead of everything around you, so you can miss.

I really think making his ult a toggle would piss off Vlad mains. They would argue that they don't want to be Anivia or Swain, but Vlad. Maybe his ultimate could give him something crucial, like an AoE drain similar to Morgana's ult except it continually drains every 40 frames or so rather than every .5 seconds. Or something that enhances his regular abilities when activated?

Oh, the toggle would be increasing max HP (not current) but lowering damage, or trading that for increasing damage, but lowering max HP. Not anything like off/on. It would be a this or that, kinda like Jinx.

But something that emphasizes his passive like other selfish carries. Think Ryze, jax, etc. Anything other than current ult.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted} He's a mage and it rewards building HP in some way. It could do with less consistency. Maybe a cone instead of everything around you, so you can miss.

It'd be great if it didn't feel too much like Mordekaiser. Maybe his E could have a bouncing effect like Katarina's Q? Or an expanding AoE burst of damage?

Oh, the toggle would be increasing max HP (not current) but lowering damage, or trading that for increasing damage, but lowering max HP. Not anything like off/on. It would be a this or that, kinda like Jinx.

I feel like he'd be more of a tank than a mage. Vlad wasn't made to be a tank. Just hard to kill without expending massive efforts to do so. I feel like his ultimate is something thattakes quite a bit of thought to perfect and mold...

But something that emphasizes his passive like other selfish carries. Think Ryze, jax, etc. Anything other than current ult.

Hm... that's not a bad idea. But maybe instead of having HP scalings on his abilities, his ultimate could momentarily convert a large %of his max HP to AP, or drain his life over its use, albeit increasing healing and damage?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

It'd be great if it didn't feel too much like Mordekaiser. Maybe his E could have a bouncing effect like Katarina's Q? Or an expanding AoE burst of damage?

What about narrower cone, shorter ranged TF Q? Can salvage projectile animation this way as well, so simple to implement.

I feel like he'd be more of a tank than a mage. Vlad wasn't made to be a tank. Just hard to kill without expending massive efforts to do so. I feel like his ultimate is something thattakes quite a bit of thought to perfect and mold...

Tank builds including wota, spirit visage(which is a trap item if he's not potent enough just building tanky), etc, would focus on sustain and being a relatively low damage, but persistent damage threat.

Hm... that's not a bad idea. But maybe instead of having HP scalings on his abilities, his ultimate could momentarily convert a large %of his max HP to AP, or drain his life over its use, albeit increasing healing and damage?

You'd have to change his E then. Too much overlap IMO.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

What about narrower cone, shorter ranged TF Q? Can salvage projectile animation this way as well, so simple to implement.

Ok, that's a fairly good idea. But what would we do about the actual ability to make it feel different from other cone abilities? Mordekaiser's does the same thing as Vlad's in a cone, so it might need a little something to make it feel different. Maybe a progressing branch of spiked blood that pierces oponents?

Tank builds including wota, spirit visage(which is a trap item if he's not potent enough just building tanky), etc, would focus on sustain and being a relatively low damage, but persistent damage threat.

I feel like this would be a good idea if Vlad's sustain wasn't directly tied to his damage. How would you implement this and prevent stance abusing? Would it have a cooldown?

You'd have to change his E then. Too much overlap IMO.

The passive on his E never felt satisfying, anyway. I think moving that to his ultimate would be awesome.

Evil Jester1 votes

honestly I think whats keeping Vladimir out of the mid lane is his range and lack of mobility. Ive been playing him alot since season 3 but if you take him midlane right now, I garentee you what will kill him most is not being able to engage, as most midlaners have ether a decent poke abilitys like Xerath TwistedFate Lux Zed or some form of gap close that can get them in range to deal burst damage like Diana Fizz Kassadin Talon

my ideas would be:

  • ether make his Q more like Soraka , an AOE that heals when it lands on a target, maybe like half for minions

  • Turn his E into a piercing poke, costing health like it does now, still able to hit multiple targets, but in a straight line so he can harass back

both of which are dodgable, so he wouldn't be OP but would be given just enough of a kit buff to be functional in midlane again. yeah he could be OP in top lane, but if you take Xerath or a Velkoz top lane you would get the same results depending on the opponent.

Melledoneus3 votes

Creative suggestions, but I'll keep this response short.

What you recommended doesn't really feel like Vlad, but more like a Soraka and Xerath mash-up, which would be fine if it wouldn't make a lot of Vlad players pissed off.

I feel like the way to address the issue of his mid lane, as you mentioned, lies in his inability to poke or engage properly. Giving him range would make him too powerful, and giving him a hard engage would be messy on someone like Vlad.

Making Vlad be a champion who can counter attacks while farming is not a bad idea. Think Veigar mixed with Singed. It takes Singed some skill to walk up to an enemy and position well enough to trap them, but if they engage on you it's ten times easier. Veigar also prioritizes farm and not dying, but Vladimir will pull that off while marking his enemy as his next victim after hundreds of minions.

What do you think? Sorry if I seem like I'm dismissing your ideas, I'm really not. It's just that scrapping ideas is a big part of the planning process, and I know most of these ideas will be scrapped for sure.

Evil Jester1 votes

{quoted}

Creative suggestions, but I'll keep this response short.

What you recommended doesn't really feel like Vlad, but more like a Soraka and Xerath mash-up, which would be fine if it wouldn't make a lot of Vlad players pissed off.

I feel like the way to address the issue of his mid lane, as you mentioned, lies in his inability to poke or engage properly. Giving him range would make him too powerful, and giving him a hard engage would be messy on someone like Vlad.

Making Vlad be a champion who can counter attacks while farming is not a bad idea. Think Veigar mixed with Singed. It takes Singed some skill to walk up to an enemy and position well enough to trap them, but if they engage on you it's ten times easier. Veigar also prioritizes farm and not dying, but Vladimir will pull that off while marking his enemy as his next victim after hundreds of minions.

What do you think? Sorry if I seem like I'm dismissing your ideas, I'm really not. It's just that scrapping ideas is a big part of the planning process, and I know most of these ideas will be scrapped for sure.

what about this, Nocturne and Sivir have a shield that nullifies abilities, now Vlad has his W but right now it cost %HP to use and only heals 15% of damage done, what if they just modified it to heal him exponentially if he successfully dodges an attack?

or another spit ball here. maybe give him the juggernaut treatment? like he heals a percentage of his max HP based on the amount of champs caught in his Pool or maybe his E? kinda like what Darius gets on his Q. this would help him with countering engages from champs like Talon and Kassadin

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

maybe give him the juggernaut treatment? like he heals a percentage of his max HP based on the amount of champs caught in his Pool

I like this idea. How would you give it early laning value?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

honestly I think whats keeping Vladimir out of the mid lane is his range and lack of mobility. Ive been playing him alot since season 3 but if you take him midlane right now, I garentee you what will kill him most is not being able to engage, as most midlaners have ether a decent poke abilitys like Xerath TwistedFate Lux Zed or some form of gap close that can get them in range to deal burst damage like Diana Fizz Kassadin Talon

my ideas would be:

  • ether make his Q more like Soraka , an AOE that heals when it lands on a target, maybe like half for minions

  • Turn his E into a piercing poke, costing health like it does now, still able to hit multiple targets, but in a straight line so he can harass back

both of which are dodgable, so he wouldn't be OP but would be given just enough of a kit buff to be functional in midlane again. yeah he could be OP in top lane, but if you take Xerath or a Velkoz top lane you would get the same results depending on the opponent.

His range and lack of mobility don't hold me back mid. He does better mid than top, that's for sure. Especially since you can rush abyssal to dominate and farm easily.

I find most champs' cast delays are just enough to poke and get close enough to potentially kill them after Wota+ionian+negatron.

Melledoneus1 votes

Against stronger mid matchups like Swain or Viktor, Vlad doesn't do so well.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Against stronger mid matchups like Swain or Viktor, Vlad doesn't do so well.

Swain isn't a problem if you don't fight him. He can't engage on you. You just farm under turret until you get some sustain and abyssal, then instant clear waves.

Vik you just buy an early negatron and afk farm the lane. After 9 he can't touch you, even if you can't ever all-in him by yourself.

Besides, people never pick mid swain into vlad because they think he's top :)

Azir is a much more heartbreaking matchup.

Melledoneus1 votes

Azir is the worst if he outranges you. It's a living hell matchup not even Faker could win.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Azir is the worst if he outranges you. It's a living hell matchup not even Faker could win.

And they call Vlad a non-interactive lane.

Melledoneus2 votes

Well, Azir has to actively position his soldiers offensively to harass, meaning you can jump on him and wreck his face if you can. Playing against an Azir is about good positioning and tools to poke back, while Vlad is just someone who heals back to full HP in a minute and comes back to harass you more.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Vlad and would hate to see him get changed for the worse. Which is why I made some concepts that may or may not be inspirational to what Vlad could become.

WoonStruck1 votes

Actively positioning is soldiers his moot. He either presses a button or presses another button, end of story, its basically exactly where you want it. Its trivial and costs little mana. If you jump on him, he has an obnoxious ult and an escape aside from that. There's little you can do if you don't completely 100-0 him unless he makes several mistakes.

Vlad does not heal through Azir harass until Wota and a negatron are built. He does not out-trade until Wota, Ionian boots, and Abyssal are completed, provided he did not fall behind.

His Q I want to function relatively similarly. Its not much different than a ranged auto attack, but a longer CD. Autos usually do more damage and are spammable. The sustain can go, making it far, far healthier overall.

His E and Ult I want changed. E in a way that lets him be a DPS mage still; effectively 2 low CD spells. They're going to keep his W. It'd be a shame if they just turned him into a generic mage.

Melledoneus2 votes

{quoted}

Actively positioning is soldiers his moot. He either presses a button or presses another button

Isn't that every champion in the game? Just... pressing buttons?

Vlad does not heal through Azir harass until Wota and a negatron are built. He does not out-trade until Wota, Ionian boots, and Abyssal are completed, provided he did not fall behind.

Vlad's late game is much stronger than Azir's. Keep that in mind, that's how he was balanced.

His Q I want to function relatively similarly. Its not much different than a ranged auto attack, but a longer CD. Autos usually do more damage and are spammable. The sustain can go, making it far, far healthier overall.

Vlad's core theme is being a heavy sustain mage. If you take that away, everybody who actually plays him will be pissed off.

His E and Ult I want changed. E in a way that lets him be a DPS mage still; effectively 2 low CD spells. They're going to keep his W. It'd be a shame if they just turned him into a generic mage.

It would be a shame, yes. However, what kind of changes do you want to make? What do you think of an outward expanding AoE that deals tons of damage but is dodgeable?

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that every champion in the game? Just... pressing buttons?

You said actively position soldiers. This isn't the case at all. Ori has to actively manage another entity. Syndra has to manage separate entities. Azir just presses a button, does too much damage for unavoidability of it, then presses another to move them back to you, slow you, and deal more damage, with two disengages that pretty much have nothing to do with the position of soldiers unless you consider J4 to actively manage an entity to E->Q. Part of the reason Azir was nerfed so much. He gets basically a free early game, easy, safe farm and harass, and is a hyper-carry with two forms of disengage on top of it.

Vlad's late game is much stronger than Azir's. Keep that in mind, that's how he was balanced.

Actually, Azir>Vlad. Azir has much better objective control, pushing ability, poking ability, disengage ability, playmaking ability. Vlad does more damage, but Azir actually has the tools to carry. Part of the reason for this is Vlad's current ult.

Vlad's core theme is being a heavy sustain mage. If you take that away, everybody who actually plays him will be pissed off.

Actually, his core is a DPS carry mage. The sustain was there to offset his W, E, and Ult. However, they ended up removing the cost on his ult, and now he just proves to sustain too much relative to what his costs are. The best way to fix this would be %current hp costs and %missing health heals. This can be increased further to include damage with WotA and spellvamp.

He wasn't intended to be a sustain champ; it was supposed to be his 'refill' mechanic. It just 'refills' too well. This is easily fixed by removing the current healing mechanic, even if another takes its place.

It would be a shame, yes. However, what kind of changes do you want to make? What do you think of an outward expanding AoE that deals tons of damage but is dodgeable?

I honestly don't know. I'm sure Riot will come up with something, though. Its possible that, rather than stacking E, He must hit the target and they get a debuff that increases the damage E does. Possibly 3 hit passive from E.

His E was originally intended to be a growing threat in fights, not just be kept at 4 stacks all the time. Part of this issue is how he has too much sustain and has lost touch with his real core because of it.

Melledoneus2 votes

Lazy response, but I learned something new today. Thank you.

Shonjl1 votes

I like most what you said besides the charge up on Q. In Darius's case it makes sense to give him a charge up since he has a heavy executioners axe to get in position and put all his might into swinging. All Vlad does is cast a spell which is basically like breathing once you mastered it.

The only thing I can see having a charge for a spell is for it to get longer range or do much. And the last thing Vlad needs is more range. Even with your Leech idea, Vlad would hide back if he isn't forced to get close since its safer. Why get close even if it hurts more if you can outsustain and wittle an enemy down? It forces them to all in you or lose lane.

Melledoneus2 votes

Thematically, it's just weird for spikes to spontaneously appear and pierce someone. I think the charge up would be like an airborne spear of blood growing in size, then finally opening a wound. The more it charged up, the more blood gushes out.

Shonjl2 votes

Ahh I can see what you are getting at, so like a projectile spike goes at them and hits them and the blood goes back to Vlad. I can see something like that having a charge up. Longer= more damage or more sustain due to it piercing them and causing more injury. I like it.

Melledoneus1 votes

Right on the mark! Any criticisms on it?

Dante Valentine1 votes

Alright, time for my second attempt at an immobile mage rework: (Cass; posted in http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EAbr173E-a-cassiopeia-rework) for those interested.

I'm going to steal a few ideas I liked from this post so far and build a whole kit*

Goals: Increase interactivity between Vlad and everyone else Move Vlad from weird blood burst mage into more of a juggernaut direction engage with bloody thematics. Retaining most of his kit for riot resources

Base Stats

Along with his passive, this could be an ideal location for slight tweaks as he was previously balanced around the extra stats from his passive. I would suggest keeping him slow and maybe MR scaling/health per level buffs.

Passive: Crimson Pact

Vladimir doesn't benefit from Spellvamp (or wota effects) directly, instead it affects his abilities effects Q - Transfusion is doubly effective with spellvamp W - Steals move speed equal to Spellvamp % from affected enemy champions E - Increases to E stack damage and healing with Spellvamp % multiplicatively R - Increase tether range by Spellvamp %

  • Removes stat check passive (Free stats:see old kayle/jax... lookin' at you too akali o_o) in favor of clarity (boo --> yay)
  • Q is for Poke/Sustain
  • W is clearer/cleaner
  • E is for Engages/AoE/team benefit, not healing off of minion waves
  • R is stronger in long/group engages
  • Opens possibility for Hybrid builds? :3

Q: Transfusion

625 Range 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 CD (No cast time but 1.25s charge time increasing the damage up to 2.5x - no recast option, but upon leaving 600 range of the target or casting W the charge breaks). A balance lever is present with whether or not the CD starts at the beginning of end of charge. 45/60/75/90/110 (+.3AP) - 112.5/150/187.5/225/275 (+.75AP)magic damage

This ability, while problematic, only requires a minor skill input to make it bearable and still iconic. Thus I have chosen to incorporate the charge idea. I like the idea of taking a moment to measure an enemy's blood and then ripping it from their body. With his passive, his revolver spike will be very real, but his healing will largely only come from Q as his E requires consistent interaction and it no longer benefits from spellvamp itself. Allowing Vlad to take his time with Q farming and harass will result in a dead enemy but he will be more disruptable with the charge time and his actions will be more telegraphed as he attempts to kite and heal.

W: Sanguine Pool

No longer slows/hastes

Mechanically less thrilling but I appreciate the Zac styled pool size mentioned above. and would have the pool start smaller than current and grow to be a bit bigger than current at maybe the ~4k health mark -- overall probably a nerf but nerfing pool is not going to make most people cry... it's pretty fking god.

E: Tides of Blood:

  • mechanically the same, but move E stacks to enemy champions struck
  • stacking mechanic demands consistent interaction (a healthy thing!)
  • stacks on enemies allows allies with offensive healing to also benefit (yay team comps! yay character identity -- THE sustain mage)
  • removes that annoying invisible power found in increasing regen which is thematically out of place.

R: Thicker than Water

Target enemy champion is infected taking damage over time as vlad drains the life from them, if the target dies then the plague can spread to another enemy champion in range. This would function like Space aids, but only within a radius similar to morgana R - and yes i see the similarities to Mordekaiser or even Trundle, but those two already have similar ults and I don't really understand trundle's thematically.

700 Range/700 tether 135/120/105 sec CD 150/300/450 magic damage/heal over 5

Tether would animate as a blood funnel between Vlad and his target and upon kill, if another champion is in range of Vlad, his ult will refresh either on the closest target or the target with the most E stacks on them.

Example Build:

mPen marks armor seals ap glyphs Spellvamp quints 18/0/12 masteries (DFT)

Wota Ionian Boots Spirit Visage Rylai's Zhonya's Liandry's

Alright two reworks down, 4 to go! Let me know what you guys think! :D

Melledoneus3 votes

One criticism I have of this rework... removing Vlad's tanky stats means that he will be very ineffective. His late game will be hindered tenfold, and his short range means that he cannot get near the enemy team unless he builds like an AP bruiser. What I recommend is you tie his scalings to his ult so that his 6 is a power spike of sorts, and every time he levels up his ultimate he gets bigger scalings. Here's an example:

R- Thicker Than Water Passive: Hemomancer's Code Vladimir permanently has 2/2.5/4% of his bonus health converted into AP and 120/140/160% of his AP as bonus health.

That way, Vlad can still scale extremely hard into the late game as he was meant to, but at a more pronounced rate. His ultimate will give him power there while items will only slightly increase it. Not only will his build not change much thanks to his sustain-based nature, but he will also be able to utilize points in his ultimate far more than before. Also, it creates an idea of how powerful a Vladimir is based on what stage of his ultimate he has, at levels 6,11, and 16. Instead of thinking "hey, how much power does Vlad get from Rylai's?" we get "oh, he's level 16. I'd better be careful around that guy."

Dante Valentine1 votes

Assuming the rework leaves him weak and unable to do the Vlad things, I don't see why not, though my OCD would demand it be 2/3/4 bonus health or w/e numbers are balancing* lol. Personally AP bruiser makes more sense to me but if our intended direction is straight AP 60 minute monster then the stat ball might still be necessary. :)

Blackquill1 votes

While i agree that the power of his HP/AP scaling should be placed on his ult to smooth out the power curve i heavily disagree with keeping his double scaling. Make it like this:

R: Thicker than Water Passive: Vladimir's basic abilities deal bonus magic damage equal to 6/8/10% of his bonus health.

This encourages him to buy HP and AP scalings on his basic abilities will encourage him to buy AP.

Melledoneus2 votes

But he'd be extremely squishy. Too squishy for his playstyle.

Blackquill1 votes

Not more squishy than he is today unless you go full tank on him. If you buy HP you get bonus magic damage on basic abilities which is exactly what Vladimir wants but you no longer have this double scaling passive. This passive is the reason why he is kept at such low scalings, because if the passive is too effective it will be OP and if it's too weak he is what he is right now, because it is weak.

Oerba No Naja1 votes

you should have post it in gameplay .. it could have more visibity for rioters . since i dont think they consider " concept and creations " as something to be taken as idea on a existing champion.

Melledoneus1 votes

Riot's mods are assholes, so they would just remove it. This way, nobody can argue that a rework CONCEPT is not a concept or creation.

Narsicus1 votes

To me Vladimir's most integral theme is his sustain, he feeds on the life on his enemies and doing so allows him to persist where anyone else would be forced to retreat. I would approve of most any rework that kept this or even punched it even further.

Maybe they could increase Vlad's natural survivability at the cost of his burst damage and make it so that his power becomes more and more apparent the longer fights last.

Or maybe, and I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, they could give Vlad a version of Cassio's current passive. Starting off relatively frail but as he absorbs blood over the course of the game his power grows and makes him a true monster. He already plays this way and it certainly makes a more thematic sense than on Cassio.

I don't really have any concrete ideas but if they keep sustain as Vlad's main thing and give you enough survivability in fights that you can utilize it ill probably be happy.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

To me Vladimir's most integral theme is his sustain, he feeds on the life on his enemies and doing so allows him to persist where anyone else would be forced to retreat. I would approve of most any rework that kept this or even punched it even further.

Maybe they could increase Vlad's natural survivability at the cost of his burst damage and make it so that his power becomes more and more apparent the longer fights last.

Or maybe, and I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, they could give Vlad a version of Cassio's current passive. Starting off relatively frail but as he absorbs blood over the course of the game his power grows and makes him a true monster. He already plays this way and it certainly makes a more thematic sense than on Cassio.

I don't really have any concrete ideas but if they keep sustain as Vlad's main thing and give you enough survivability in fights that you can utilize it ill probably be happy.

I wouldn't say his sustain is integral. Its a noticed part because its all Vlad has left that's extremely apparent and matches thematically.

They could easily remove sustain from lane without touching Q otherwise, especially with cass' passive, which I think would be more interesting than on her. Just let it stack on anything he uses Q on, not just champions, even if it must require a massive amount of stacks to balance this.

I don't want survivability and sustain to be focused on with Vlad. I want good, consistent AP DPS, and enough sustain/survivability to let him do his job as a short-ranged caster that wants to be in the middle of a fight. I don't want it to be his focus, I want it to be just enough to let him do his job, that way you can see who the good Vlads and bad Vlads are. He shouldn't win just because he has more tankiness/sustain than other people. That's terrible design and Vlad needs to be moved away from it.

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