50% bonus armor pen is kind of stupid to begin with. Reduce it to 35-40% at the very least so that the reduced HP we got doesn't hurt us when fighting the man who yells about his posession of keys.
Derfel67 votesOr they can cut it entirely and tie his free 2x crit onto his ult so this manaless champion doesn't just have 2 of the best passives in the game (yeah, 2, most champs have 1) for no reason other than certainlyT is a special snowflake and his snowflake champions just have to break the mold. I know yasuo weebs love the meme that if you don't give yasuo 2x free crit then he might just build tank and somehow ruin the game even more than he already does, so there you go.
AceBlack24 votesHis shield which is a worse version of several other very similar passives is one of the best passives in the game...
And people wonder why Riot rarely listens to the boards for balance, and when they do it usually comes out like dogshit.
JavelinJoe39 votesTo be fair, most shield passives don't reapply mid-combat, they usually are a full ability for that (Lux, Karma, and Janna are good examples of that), nor do they close to fully negate a single attack's / ability's damage.
Up to a 500+ free shield just by moving around on one of the most conditionally mobile champions in the game, who also has a 4 second window to block every enemy "projectile" in an area is fair and balanced? Not to mention up to 50% free crit chance. Yeah, his kit is overloaded.
Guyy Fieri4 votesThose are abilities dude, Lux Karma and Janna all of them their shields are tied into abilities, not their passive...if you wanna play this comparison, compare Yasuo's shield to Mordekaiser.
JavelinJoe7 votesthey usually are a full ability for that (Lux, Karma, and Janna are good examples of that)
I thought It was clear that I was talking about shields on abilities...
And probably the closest shield passive to Yasuo's is Pantheon's since it blocks a single basic/turret attack, then maybe Camille's. Mordekaiser's actually is like the inverse Yasuo shield because it naturally degrades, not generates, and is more of a replacement for his health cost
Guyy Fieri4 votesGotcha...misread sorry
Volphi10 votes[deleted]
Melledoneus23 votesHe has a permanent ban slot lol
That should tell you something.
Volphi16 votes[deleted]
A Bepi26 votesNo it's the fact that Yasuo is so anti fun to lane against. Most champions have mana or something that tones them down a bit but Yasuo keeps spamming tornados with no down fall. Even if you shit on him (and it's not that hard to do so) he gets 1 item and he can easily kill you if he lands a tornado. Yasuo either gets fed and rapes shit or he sucks and is dead weight all game, but never in between, hate laning against him and hate having him in my team. 100% ban pick for me
Volphi7 votes[deleted]
Vellich0r8 votesHe isn't vulnerable to burst. That is the point of the shield: as an anti burst measure. He is vulnerable to high sustained damage or lots of aoe.
Volphi5 votes[deleted]
Vellich0r5 votesInitiate damage is part of burst. It eats up to 500 damage of burst. With proper windwall use he can eat almost all of someone's burst. High sustained damage or AoE. AoE accidentally kills him even if he does windwall and huge sustained damage doesnt care about his 1 second shield or his long cooldown windwall. Kayle is one of his biggest counters (did you know her auto's, even the ranged ones, aren't blocked by windwall?) She craps on his laning phase and then out damages him in team fights while keeping him from killing his prime targets. In short though, his kit is basically designed to mitigate and/or eliminate high burst with shields and windwall.
Junkο4 votesWhat a well thought out point and argument. Riot should definitely implement this, after all removing incentive to build crit definitely won't bring back the Tank Yasuo cancer which is the main reason people started hating Yasuo again.
Unvictus5 votesI guess you didn't read his post thuroughly, but what can I expect from someone defending yasuo. He never said to remove the X2 crit. He said to get rid of the armor pen on his ult and move the X2 crit passive to his ult. That way he won't get cheesy crits in lane if he buys before lvl 6 and it forces him to build his own armor pen, which would then discourage tanks builds if he has to invest in 2 crit items and at least 1 armor pen item, plus boots. That only leaves him with two item slots left then.
Takazaki2 votesI guess you didn't read his post thuroughly, but what can I expect from someone defending yasuo. He never said to remove the X2 crit. He said to get rid of the armor pen on his ult and move the X2 crit passive to his ult. That way he won't get cheesy crits in lane if he buys before lvl 6 and it forces him to build his own armor pen, which would then discourage tanks builds if he has to invest in 2 crit items and at least 1 armor pen item, plus boots. That only leaves him with two item slots left then.
> Or they can cut it entirely and tie his free 2x crit onto his ult so this manaless champion doesn't just have 2 of the best passives in the game
no where here does it say how it applies to his ult, look like you didn't read it properly and made assumptions based on nothing, but what can i expect from someone who ( likely) hates yasuo.
forcing him to buy armor pen will give yasuo Yi syndrome without the same bypasses tha yi has ( albeit imo yi's only just barely works)
you want to balance yasuo and make the hate stop? fun fact it wont stop till something else thats more annoying comes out, but in the meant try thinking about this.
now yasuo window doesnt random block things
now enemys can see what options yasuo has to go in and get out so it removes the feeling of you getting blitz'd
( i dont agree with this change as yasuo not having 100% crit really makes his damage unpredictable [ basically a weaker melee adc] and its just rng that isnt needed in his kit) now you wont get 100% crit at 2 item spike but your damage will ramp up to even more late
cements Q maxing meta and compensates for lack of double crit ( would not ship this without the above passive change other wise it would be buffing him in the wrong ways)
now when yasuo chases you down with E and is stacking Q he will not have the time to auto you in between the knock up nerfing his ERMMUHGAWD CANT RUN AWAY JUST DASHES FOR FREE even thought you could have probably gone into the jungle most the time
lets be real here, yasuo's damage isnt the problem, the problem is people who don't bother to take the time to learn how to lane against him feel like its hopeless to play against him.
also the my yasuo vs ur yasuo meme
Unvictus4 votesThe post legit says to take the crit passive and make it a passive on his ult.. but somehow you found a different way to read that..
I never said that this was the route to go of nerfs were to happen, but clearly something has to change. Many of the options you suggested I could see being viable options. He's just too frustrating to play against and his kit is simply overloaded, tanking into consideration the lack of transparency in his kit for his enemies (you also hit on this: giving dash timers for enemies to see). All of this combined leaves yasuo's enemies with no agency over the outcome of situations. I really do like a lot of your ideas, another one I've seen some people toss around is reducing the width on his tornado. What are your thoughts on that?
What advice would you give people who don't know how to lane against him? If lack of knowledge is the problem and not his damage, please share, I would greatly appreciate your input on how people can learn to find him less frustrating in lane. (Preferably general strategies rather than champion counters cause we all know skill>counters)
rtbf2256182412 votesTbh i'm wondering why doesn't Yasuo have a 70% win rate at this point.
Unvictus2 votesEspecially with the decereased cost of crit items and GA being just better on him now than it used to be. Unless they change something about him soon once 10 bans hit I don't think many of us will be seeing too much of him.
Melledoneus10 votesShitty players.
Hunted90007 votesShitty players.
^Exact same thing for lee
Thilmer3 votesOr they can cut it entirely and tie his free 2x crit onto his ult so this manaless champion doesn't just have 2 of the best passives in the game (yeah, 2, most champs have 1) for no reason other than certainlyT is a special snowflake and his snowflake champions just have to break the mold.
I have certain problems with CertainlyT designs (obvious pun). They are completely useless or completely broken; Warwick is the only exception I can think of.
Bouncemaster Zac30 votesSpeaking of which, 
having 25% armor pen for free on everything he does forever.
Melledoneus14 votesIt's Darius, we really can't object to a champion whose niche is "fuck everything melee" having armor pen.
Junkο16 votesThen we shouldn't object to Yasuo having 50% bonus armor pen (only after ult) either. Since the niche of fighters is to fuck over everyone else in a 1v1.
Melledoneus6 votesExcept Yasuo is meant to counter mages and ranged artillery with his mobility and projectile negation. Bruisers and tanks are supposed to be problematic for him.
Decrit9 votesactually he is a skirmisher first, so he is meant to fuck everyone melee in a duel as a baseline. additionally he has utility for distance attack.
Troll for Trump11 votesIf you're going that route, you might as well nerf any free penetration that any champ gets
Melledoneus6 votesList them all for me and I'll explain why they have it and whether the amount is appropriate.
Troll for Trump10 votes
Melledoneus10 votes His entire existence is to be the big bully of melees, even pre-6. Without the decent armor pen tanks wouldn't have a miserable time against this asshole.
More of a placeholder passive, but he needs the slight armor pen because he lacks the power of crit and attack speed multipliers.
Burly bruiser whose job is to mess up whoever he gets his hands on. His Q armor shred is incentive to land the combo and gives power that is not damage.
Her existence revolves around being a ranged hybrid carry, and the shred accentuates her W in that regard.
He pays for his amazing tank shred with a severe lack of utility, mobility, and safety.
Burly, hard-hitting bruiser whose power is allocated into extended skirmishes. Her W armor shred is meant to incentivize brawling it out. The amount seems fair, given the dedication needed.
EDIT: His Q armor shred is there to give Wukong's combo a bit of oomph since the damage is all he has pre-6 and post-6 his ult puts in directly in the middle of the fight. And it's not as bad as others, but I suppose it's a remnant of old champion design.
This champion's armor reduction is single-target so that he is incentivized for sticking to them. As a diver if he is not rewarded for keeping up with his target then there's no point.
Apparently Yasuo is supposed to blink to his target, deal some AoE damage while suspending them and... go on? His ultimate is a high point but I have no idea why he has such high post-ult power when he is a skirmisher, who must excel at defeating squishier targets quickly and not the classes that build to negate his damage. Of course Yasuo should naturally win against most tanks in a duel, but melting them in a fight of 5v5 with a whopping 50% bonus armor pen is just not fitting.
Gangplank's barrels are heavily reliant on positioning and are very difficult to snag a team with late game. The armor ignore rewards him for hitting any target with it, should it be a tank or a squishy. I personally feel like 70% is a bit excessive, but seeing how much risk it involves it is justified.
You got me on this one. There is no god damn reason Garen should even have armor shred.
I guess I should concede here. Garen is another champion whose armor shred is not fitting.
Decrit7 voteswe could argue likewise as Yasuo has a windowed armor shred that allows him to fulfill his role as a skirmisher that is able to fight tanks, and that it's actually delayed based on itemization. While powerful, his is much more fair than many of the listed here that have it "just because"
Troll for Trump6 votes his passive doesn't give him armor pen, it's his E. You're right, though
People just end up going assassin on him, to abuse the armor pen
but the shred makes her a huge bully in laning phase. If she's supposed to be a hypercarry, why can she bully in laning phase as well?
Both Vi and Yasuo are skirmishers, Yasuo more so than Vi (Vi's more of a diver). If Vi needs the armor pen for extended skirmishes, why not Yasuo?
Just like J4, it encourages assassin-like playstyles, rather than bruisers
skirmishers are supposed to 1v1 anything in the game relatively easily. He shouldn't have as much teamfight power as he has. But his teamfight power is conditional and based on knockups; he shouldn't be 5 man ulting you. The armor pen is what lets him deal with tanks. For other skirmishers, 
have sticking power to deal with tanks, 
do true dmg, and 
does hybrid dmg. Yas's sticking power is conditional. Outside of that, he doesn't have as many things to shred tanks with.
I feel like it's not as much risk as people make out, but it's just me.
needs armor shred so he's not useless lategame, basically.
Volphi5 votes[deleted]
Junkο10 votesEh not really. As a Yasuo main I think there are other issues with his kit (mainly Windwall lasting to long and spawning from behind him).
TotalJerk3 votesSomething especially infuriating about him windwalling my skillshot, dashing in, doing a full trade, and then dashing back behind it while its still up.
Takazaki4 votesSomething especially infuriating about him windwalling my skillshot, dashing in, doing a full trade, and then dashing back behind it while its still up.
now the correct way to deal with this is if you wiff something important, like an ahri charm back df up. yasuo capitalizes on you cooldowns being down. you'll almost always beat him straight up. but he preys on cooldowns being down
NineTailedMystic5 votesimplying any mid can just "back up" from Yas.
TyrekGoldenspear3 votesWell yeah, all midlaners have flash. Kappa.
Spicy Rice1 votesYou can if you aren't out of position.
But if you are going to brainlessly push, expect to get punished
Vulgrimm2 votesMinion wave comes in, Yasuo has a free ticket on the gravy train to you, every fucking wave.
Spicy Rice2 votesAssuming we are talking midlane here, no mage I can think of really needs to walk past river to deal with yasuo.
If he's able to tower dive you with impunity, then you fucked up somewhere
Kewlipo3 votesOr camp his lane and enjoy the free win.
Enloct19 votesHe's not the hardest champion to gank but he's far from easy.
Handin Out Naps4 votesHe is one of the easiest lol.
Brascus6 votesImmobile champs pushed into enemy turret getting collapsed on easy?
Handin Out Naps8 votesYeah, just as easy. If he is pushed into your turret he can only dash further into your turret or into you, he is basically immobile when he is pushing into the enemy turret. Yasuo's whole kit just auto pushes the wave unless he plays perfectly. Which is honestly so rare, even in mid diamond yasuos just push and get camped constantly. On top of that he is easy to dive if he is behind.
