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The Boards need to read this article by Riot's Tryndamere.

Melledoneus··350 votes·11,654 views

https://t.co/jsq4O3Vuhx

Tl;dr, Marc "Tryndamere" Merill talks about how Riot works behind the scenes, why they seem to be negligent and making false promises, and the future of Dynamic Queue.

Basically, if Dynamic Queue screws up, they will bring back Solo Queue. The reason they're not bringing it back for now is because they have visions of making Dynamic Queue better than Solo Queue.

While many can criticize, Marc brings up a lot of good points. He mentions how the work-related individuality can lead to teams going ahead and making statements that mislead players, as well as the reason behind the silence is uncertainty. They don't want to make promises we'll keep them to because there's still a lot of ground to cover.

I feel like these boards need to start calming down about DQ. I know it sucks. We know it sucks. Riot knows it sucks. But we have to consider they are working really hard to do right by us as the players. They want to introduce a new, better ranked system. Yolo Queue could be a thing of the past.

I'm probably going to get buried alive for saying this, but... you guys are severely overreacting on these boards. You're making a violent environment of negativity. You're shutting out Riot with your own riot, and anything Riot says that doesn't comform to the mob will be disliked into oblivion and just add fuel to the fire.

You can disagree with Dynamic Queue. Riot doesn't like where it is, either. But for we as a community, let's please consider that Riot are just as much gamers as we are. We all love this game, since we've played it this long. Nobody plays a game they don't honestly love (given normal circumstances).

Dynamic Queue is shooting for the stars. Let's wait and see if we hit the moon.

332 Comments

Irelia Bot96 votes

The issue is more that things like the video are going about it all the wrong ways.

Saying "we are not bringing back solo Queue" first thing and not even a real context as to why or what the plan is was a really bad idea for them.

If they said "we are not planning to bring back solo Queue any time soon and we know Dynamic needs a lot of work" that would have been a much better way to start it off.

They also did avoid actually answering questions with anything solid and acted like they had answers that were in reality only hypothetical. "I would be alright if it was balanced around premades" that is hypothetical since the value of a premade can be huge or tiny.

Quepha9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WnTsynJX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-04T07:30:08.185+0000)

If they said "we are not planning to bring back solo Queue any time soon and we know Dynamic needs a lot of work" that would have been a much better way to start it off.

How is that not exactly what they said in the video?

Irelia Bot7 votes

they said first ting we are not going to bring back solo queue.

They did not even make it sound like it was a fallback option.

General Esdeath 77 votes

IT'S BEEN 6 FUCKING MONTHS I THINK IT'S FAILED ENOUGH WHEN PRO PLAYERS ARE PLAYING CUSTOMS OVER RANKED.

PraetorAmalthus16 votes

{quoted}

IT'S BEEN 6 FUCKING MONTHS I THINK IT'S FAILED ENOUGH WHEN PRO PLAYERS ARE PLAYING CUSTOMS OVER RANKED.

They are not playing customs because they think DQ is shit, like the People on reddit/boards/whatever do, they dont like the q times, as well as the matchmaking, both things that are currently being worked on. The reason everyone else hates it is just because of premades.

iamthegoatofwar49 votes

pros hate it and the vast majority of players hate it. I'm fairly certain DQ failed.

RoodToob27 votes

Pros hate it, and diamonds hate it. They are the groups that have been negatively affected, people in plat or lower that don't like it have one of these reasons :

  • unsatisfied with how the ranking works out, as in they're rank means little (from what I've seen, this group isn't the ones flaming, just annoyed)
  • they have gotten extremely unlucky with how many premades (this is very little people)
  • They had one negative experience and blame the whole system
  • They found an excuse as to why they can't climb
  • They jumped onto a bandwagon
  • "My favourite pro hates it"

Matter of fact is, in plat and below, you can still carry premades and against premades. Very little premades play organized here, just a few solos on Skype together. Of course this is more the case in bronze than Plat, but as a plat player, I've carried 4 mans that weren't doing well like I've carried against them.

69982196_DEL22 votes

I'm a solo player. DQ does nothing good for me. I'm gold, not a high tier player. Tell me why I'm so wrong hate the system that has hurt my experience so much? Or why don't you try to explain me what am I losing that makes DQ so much better?

Red Onion King11 votes

How about you point out an actual problem in his argument rather than responding with selfish nonsense. "This does nothing good for me so it can't be good" is a horrible argument. Feeding starving third world children doesn't help us directly, does that make it bad?

franticFurball44 votes

Riot doesn't like where it is, either. But for we as a community, let's please consider that Riot are just as much gamers as we are. We all love this game, since we've played it this long.

And this exactly is where it falls apart.

No my friend, I no longer love this game.

I used to, then DynQ came. I still did, because rito promised me soloQ for MONTHS. So I continued being faithful.

Then they said "nope, sorry". And now I no longer love this game.

They had their chance. They are not a puppy with big eyes begging for a treat. They are a billion dollar company that wants to sell me a product. They don't get to have a second chance from me. They get one chance to convince me. They didn't use that chance, so now I'm playing something else.

General Esdeath 18 votes

Riot is gamers

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA the people in charge of balance and DQ never play.

Jesus is Savior28 votes

There has always been a subgroup of players (a VERY large one at that) that has wanted a pure solo queue. As in, no duos allowed. No matter how much dynamic queue "improves" it will never give us that true competitive experience that a true solo queue would. One where every single person on your team has your exact same rank/MMR, and you can actually predict behavior based on the rank they have achieved (you could actually somewhat do this in the old solo/duo queue, and it has become nigh impossible to make any behavioral predictions in dynamic queue).

As it is now, I will never know if my team will listen to calls or care about objectives. I just have to ping spam and hope for the best. In a true solo queue those skills would be essential once achieving a certain rank. I could actually rely on my team to DO things, rather than completely carrying them on my back.

Fovere25 votes

It's a great post.

And if you're naive and forgetful I'm sure you got much comfort out of it.

OF course they'd bring back SQ if they keep trying to patch DQ and can't make it work. When you fail so long and so hard that you can't deny the results then eventually you have to deal with them.

The point is that there is no valid reasoning behind DQ that related to competition and game integrity. The only argument is to try to get a specific demographic to play ranked instead of normals. And if you go back on all their DQ posts over the last 6 months you can find many times they openly acknowledge this as being a primary goal

Shadòw23 votes

they can adjust it all the way they want.

putting team-skill and solo-skill in one Queue with one Rank for both will never work out.

they have removed 5-man premades in d+ because they don't want "fully coordinated teams" like SKT destroy everything.

And what prevents good coordinated teams in lower elos from crushing other 5-man premades?

You had Teamranked for Teamskill and Solo/DuoQ for your personal skill and ability to interact with people you play with for the first time. No matter what they do, DynamicQ will never be better than SoloQ + 5s as seperate Queues.

vampirekid1318 votes

to be young and naive again.....oh god, how i miss it.

this thread reminds me of me in season 2. a whole new ranked experience was being developed, they changed over to it in season 3, no one liked it, or understood it, i was all defending riot and telling people how its ok it will all be fixed. fast forward to season 6, people still dont know how ranked works, and riot changed nothing about it at all from release.

6KEMBE4ORBA14 votes

Dynamic Queue is shooting for the stars. Let's wait and see if we hit the moon.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH

Naive as hell. DynamicQ is fundamentally flawed and that is by design, slowpoke. IT CAN NEVER SHOOT FOR THE STARS - IT CAN ONLY GO CRASHING INTO THE GROUND.

Riot is bulshitting and damage/PR controlling.

There isn't any "philosophical difference" - it's pure math and common logic/sense which Riot ignores for potential increase in profits.

They are not aiming for increased teamplay on even ground aka better competitive environment.

DynamicQ is inherently worse for the ranked integrity than a true SoloQ/team ranked 5vs5 and the fact that Riot dosn't intend to implement an ingame voice-comm (no resources, remember? expect voice-comm by ~2020 ahahah), nor intends to implement separate ranked SOLO/PARTY MMR on 2 separate ladders and Sandbox/training mode...

--->

All of this points that Riot are not aiming for more "team-oriented" ranked environment, nor it show concerns for competitive intergrity - it actually shows that they have purely financial/profit concerns.

All of their recent "design" choices are to maximize profit through "bring a friend around/play with friend" at the expense of ranked integrity.

Prismatic13 votes

See, I'm sure it wouldn't bother nearly as many people nearly as much if it wasn't for the fact that Riot either blatantly lies (SoloQ will be back in a couple of weeks / months etc) or flat out refuses to communicate with the boards and reddit if those statements begin to alter trajectory. Riot flat out refuses to communicate in a meaningful fashion in a reasonable time frame for almost all things that are important to non-pro players. It has been going this way for so long that I sincerely doubt almost anything out of riots mouths, because they are easily the most two faced and least transparent company since at least 3 years ago.

69982196_DEL13 votes

{quoted}> you guys are severely overreacting on these boards.

I don't know about others, but am I? I'm a solo player in gold, let's review my status.

  • By the mere fact of playing solo I got punished by the system with a lower chance to win my games.
  • I am oftenly relegated in team decisions that has force me to experience games over an hour long whereas my team has already lost or could have won at the 30 minutes mark because team work in lower elos = win team fights =/= win the game.
  • I got a lesser chance to get my primary rol becase premades are prioritized.
  • I got longer Q times
  • The constant abuse from premades
  • The horrible dispairity in skill between team memebers where is a complete lotery to have decent mates/rivals.
  • The lack of incentive to be better (this is the most important one). When you see that people doesn't need to improve to rank higher you are strongly discouraged to give your best. Thanks to the shitty matchmaking I can play Soraka o whatever I want in top and stomp my lane but it doesn't matter because me wining or losing depends on my team. Yes, I've been 10/0 with Wu, all my teams wining and still lose the game because they didn't wanted to push objectives and close the games, they just want to have fun and dilate the game and keep stomping (sometimes I think they have never being ahead). I'm done begging, is just not worth it.

I'm sure there are tons of people having a blast with DQ, but for me it's the worst thing to ever happened to the game and I am angry at Riot for not giving me a fair chance in the so called competitive ladder. I don't about pros complains because those doesn't apply to me, but I do feel empathy for them because they are getting fkd in a similar manner to me.

By the way. We are beyond 6 months since DQ was forced, please don't be shameless, don't ask for patience.

Jorencice6 votes

I agree with 1 and disagree with all the others.

I've noticed no change in the ability to lead teams as a solo player.

I get the role I want 100% of the time because guess what. YOU PICK THE ROLES YOU WANT...................

My que times average 1-5 seconds so. Yea if anything que got faster.

Have never been abused even a single time by premades because I don't make an ass of myself. (I've seen solo player start shit WAY more often than premades)

Haveing bad team mates has ALWAYS existed.

And losing games due to your team has also ALWAYS existed.

69982196_DEL6 votes

I'll start backwards.

I do not complain about losing games, I complain about losing games that could easily be won. Games were with a bit of cooperation I could have carried. And I complain about having to seat 30 extra minutes bc my premade didn't want to ff. Once like a week ago I undergo a 82 minutes long that was absolutely lost by the 50 mins mark.

No, having teammates that perform bad has always existed. Now I fear team mates that can hit 50 CS at 20 minutes but still play in a carry position. Past thursday I had three games in a row with players like that and yesterday another one so please don't tell me is uncommon.

How dare you... you have a shit ton of premade games, don't tell me premades aren't toxic when you are not exposed. The mere fact that you go on a premade makes people stand back and be quiet around you even when things should be said.

Good for you, I'm not gonna lie, my Q times aren't that bad, around 5 mins average but still is way more that in previous seasons. Gotta point out that sometimes the Q goes up to 20 mins.

Since you play in premade and premades have priority over solos for roles then is no wonder you always get your role. And to clarify because I may not word my self properly, I get my secondary role about 50% of the times which is suboptimal.

If you play in premade of course you won't have problems in influencing your team decisions.

Look, If you wanna argue go ahead, but try to put yourself in a solo player place before being a dk and invalidate all I wrote by saying "that doesn't happend".

Arthimetes10 votes

I think the biggest reason the Boards went into such a frenzy is because Riot hasn't even so much as commented on a single one of these posts even saying "we hear you", instead they're too busy making joke posts in meme threads.

People WANT to know Riot is listening, and if the boards is any indication, they're not.

What would calm people down is one red post/thread saying at the very least "we're listening"

Athenes Lulu9 votes

They're just being good ol' Rito: get stuff done but at a very slow pace. Nothing too new, but people are just being people; they will never be happy.

I mean, in large companies, it is not at all surprising to have miscommunicated ideas; even Rioters are still unsure of the entire Dynamic/SoloQ decisions.

Xeruon9 votes

Oh hey so there's only about the rest of the season left.

Yeah I won't be surprised if Rito says: "We think Dynamic Queue didn't meet our expectations, so we're extending it for the next three seasons." Then proceed to do nothing about it.

I swear some of the people on Reddit or the Boards would make better game devs than these mouthbreathers at Riot.

Melledoneus7 votes

Riot has screwed up in the past, but they're not evil and stupid. They know their limits, and are trying to push them to find balance in Dynamic Queue. They have good intentions, they're just not making much progress because we're boycotting it.

Xeruon9 votes

Well no shit we're boycotting it. It's become really, really difficult to trust in Riot after the clown fiesta they pulled off with Solo Q, or rather the absence of it.

I'm sick and tired of their BS, I'll give them one final season, if they don't bring back soloq by the Preseason 7, I'm gone, and so are many others.

LaughingStapler8 votes

{quoted}

Riot has screwed up in the past, but they're not evil and stupid. They know their limits, and are trying to push them to find balance in Dynamic Queue. They have good intentions, they're just not making much progress because we're boycotting it.

You do realize DQ is mostly a cash grab right? It's meant to get more casuals hooked into ranked since those who play ranked tend to be more likely to spend money. That's why they're trying so hard to make DQ palatable. It theoretically could have been way more profitable and they didn't think sacrificing competitive integrity and a valid ranking system would become such an issue. Read some of the comments on his blog.

Sneakyy XD7 votes

{quoted}

The reason they're not bringing it back for now is because they have visions of making Dynamic Queue better than Solo Queue.

That's literally impossible. Dynamic queue cannot be better than solo queue, and solo queue can not be better than dynamic queue. Their respective goodnesses is not something that can be compared.

Melledoneus5 votes

Would you be alright with a multi-layered Dynamic Queue that can properly gauge individual solo player teams and pre-made teams? One that's a mixture of both?

Dextix LT6 votes

What you are describing is impposible.

You can never, make solo players to be on par with premade team players.

It is simply impposible, without arbitrary rewards or "fixes" that still do not adress the real problem.

Unvictus7 votes

The thing is, they DID make promises and went back in their word. As well as a long period of silence in the issue. Overall Riot handled the issue very unprofessionally. That's why everyone is upset, because Riot doesn't seem to be acknowledging anyone's feedback unless you're high elo. They are literally saying "we know what you want more than you do". Now that pro LCS players are boycotting dynamicQ for a seperate 3rd party based soloQ, Riot is in a world of hurt.

Smitty Manjensen7 votes

Didn't he do a almost identical article a while back promising other stuff which never happened?

GayFluffyUnicorn7 votes

Sorry but this just sounds like a lame excuse. SoloQ has been officially announced. Fact. After 2 months of complete radio silence they (rito) stepped back. Fact. Just to cancel SoloQ officially now--->6 months later. Also fact. They hoped after 6 months of acting like working on SQ the boards wouldn't explode that much and now they come up with this thread saying "maybe SQ comes back when DQ fails". Does riot really believe we are THAT stupid? All the time rowing back trying to step out the fire they ignited.

" as well as the reason behind the silence is uncertainty. They don't want to make promises we'll keep them to because there's still a lot of ground to cover." Are u fuckin kidding me? SEASON 6 ANNOUNCEMENTS AGAIN: Removal of ranked 5v5 and teambuilder. Introduction of new champselect together with Dynamic Q. Release of (pure!) SoloQ several weeks after launching Dynamic Q.

I wouldn't say it is promised but riot could just have wrote: We try to implement a SoloQ (no duos!) after we know how DynQ will work out but we can'T say for sure this is going to happen. THAT would've been honest.

Voidrey1 votes

Wasn't the announcement for Solo Queues return a single tweet or something like that? I wouldn't really call that "official"

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

Man seriously i'm too lazy, all the evidence has been brought up in many of the threads. All i can say is that it was official enough for every major gaming/lol related site to use this statement.

LostFr0st3 votes

Lemme help^^ http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/HGblb9fH-the-2016-ranked-season-updates-on-dynamic-ranked-and-your-feedback

To be fair it was too close to the release date for them to make a "sound" decision, but it was indeed an official announcement.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

Thanks i already found it :D But yeah still thx. That's why i said he could have just written: We can't promise anything we have to wait and see how DynQ works out. But if you look at my other comments on my own post, i copypasta the phrases which indeed say: there will be soloQ (no duos!).

DrOinkleBerry6 votes

Surprise surprise, the boards are going on a rampage and mischaracterizing Riot? This is such a new phenomena, I wonder how the League community became so toxic so quickly. http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

Melledoneus4 votes

Beats me. I just hope my friends pay up on that bet with the whipped cream and matches soon.

Sorry, I meant "I hope the League community understands their plight."

The Deckowner5 votes

Dynamic queue had screwed up since its release and has been nothing but worse.

FrostySkipper5 votes

Excactly. Let's not overreact. Let's move on to another game shall we. Guess I'll probably move on to Overwatch or another popular Moba.

Prozzak5 votes

The thing about the video is this. They didn't say anything like how you say Tryndamere did. They came out trying to make DQ sound like it is good enough atm already and just needs adjustments. Don't try to pat yourselves on the back at all. Like 0 praise for DQ and then maybe people will take them seriously and listen. Don't come out saying toxicity is down. Of course it will be when people queue with friends. Don't come out saying more people are playing ranked then ever before. Of course they will when (once again) they can queue with friends/groups of more then 2 and not need a group of 5 to play ranked.

Also, and while this doesn't account for everyone. I have talked to a couple people who are gold ranked and asked why they are playing ranked more then before. Their answer? Because it doesn't really matter how they play and that winning is a 50/50 shot. While I don't necessarily agree, that is not an answer you want for why people are playing ranked more.

Menstruating4 votes

I'm still willing to bet they won't do anything about it.

CarameI Frappe4 votes

Riot should be the ones addressing this, not a good hearted OP like yourself. They need to step up and be honest with people- even if there's backlash. Because shying away from the crowd and doing things we never wanted is going to make people leave. Hell the pros left Dynamic Que because it's downright awful. I'm sorry, but Riot aren't children that need defending ... they're a really successful company that have intelligent marketers & employees whom probably love the game as much as we do. They need to take the heat instead of letting things escalate like this.

Melledoneus5 votes

First off, I wanna quickly blush for being called "good hearted."

Second, I agree. Riot should be communicating more, but that goes back to the Red witch hunt on the Boards right now. I feel like I needed to just say it: enough is enough. All this hatred and all this anger is stifling the communication we're looking for.

LostFr0st2 votes

I'm glad they released it right before a weekend so we'd have time to discuss among ourselves and settle down. We can hopefully have a fruitful and level-headed discussion next week ^^"

Melledoneus3 votes

I really hope so. I'll see if I can get Tryndamere to send his boys (and girls) to the Boards.

President Swa1n2 votes

I love you.

Melledoneus6 votes

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