Little update on my upcoming champion (mechanically complex juggernaut)

regonas·May 18, 2016·1 votes·455 views

My next champion (mechanically complex juggernaut)

I have few question and would like to know what you think about them.

Juggernauts should lack mobility and what not, so, how about these things:

Massive self sustain, while fighting many enemy champions;
Mocking and taunting enemies to come to you, instead of you coming to them;
Low minion clearing speed, bad pushing abilities, but extremely hard to fight 1v1, no matter what champion you take.

Also, i am thinking about theme of something like a "last boss". Someone who is very unfair to fight head on and pretty much the hardest enemy to kill, but once you learn how to exploit his weakness, you can slowly win the fight.

11 Comments

TamurMay 18, 20162 votes

Also, i am thinking about theme of something like a "last boss". Someone who is very unfair to fight head on and pretty much the hardest enemy to kill, but once you learn how to exploit his weakness, you can slowly win the fight.

The words no fun comes to mind when I read this. I'm speaking as the person playing as, playing with, and playing against this champion.

regonasMay 18, 20161 votes

Well, ok then. Care to elaborate? I am thinking about champion, you need put your brains to outplay, not by simply picking counter-champion. How is that sounds unfun?

TamurMay 18, 20161 votes

Picking a Counter Champion is what League of Legends is all about. It's all about who is better against who. Without a counter a champion is no fun.

regonasMay 18, 20161 votes

Without counter picks, there is counter play. Building better, simply outplaying an enemy, getting help from your team mates.

ModThe DjinnMay 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Without counter picks, there is counter play. Building better, simply outplaying an enemy, getting help from your team mates.

I think it's more the idea that certain champions, simply by nature, WILL be better against him, and SHOULD be. Something that simply wins all fights by default unless you're good enough to counter all his abilities is the definition of a pub-stomper, isn't a lot of fun to face, and probably falls of HARD at higher skill levels.

So a Juggernaut may be unfair to 1v1 (most of them are), but someone like Vayne or Kayle should, by nature of being ranged and fairly mobile, be able to tear them apart.

regonasMay 18, 20161 votes

True, some champion simply counters everything. And there is the main juggernaut problem: either give them mobility (like garen has) and they no longer fits the theme or they will be destroyed by anyone with range.

Contrary to popular belief, it is no fun to lose your lane, only because you had to pick first and enemy counter picked you.

ModThe DjinnMay 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}Contrary to popular belief, it is no fun to lose your lane, only because you had to pick first and enemy counter picked you.

I don't think anyone would call that "fun." It's just something that happens in certain match-ups, and part of why the Pick/Ban phase is important. It's also something that's almost impossible to avoid while still giving champions unique strengths and weaknesses.

ModThe DjinnMay 18, 20161 votes

Massive self sustain, while fighting many enemy champions;

This is definitely a Juggernaut trait: see Darius and Illaoi, for example.

Mocking and taunting enemies to come to you, instead of you coming to them;

This is NOT something I see on a Juggernaut. I'm hesitant to give them any CC as powerful as a forced movement, unless it's highly limited. Darius's W is about the strongest I could see such a move being, and that's pretty short ranged and easy to outplay. I'm concerned that a taunt needs a longer duration to FEEL like a taunt, and that would be too powerful on a Juggernaut kit.

Low minion clearing speed, bad pushing abilities, but extremely hard to fight 1v1, no matter what champion you take.

This seems like a perfectly valid Juggernaut concept as well, although the part I emphasized bothers me. Juggernauts should generally be weak to ranged, highly mobile champions: a Vayne who can kite well should decimate any one of them, for example.

Also, other Juggernauts should be able to stand a chance, I believe. I'd be wary of a Juggernaut who reliably beats Skarner in his crystals, Darius at point-blank range, or late-game Nasus in a 1v1.

regonasMay 18, 20161 votes

Yeah, my main concerns are other juggernauts. I am constructing, i think, an amazing kit for a juggernaut, to fit perfectly. Low range, lots of sustain, lots of defense, lots of damage, low mobility - could be called a melee dueling monster, but against heavy kiters like Vayne, this juggernaut should be like all other juggernauts. However, all other juggernauts have some kind of movements or longer range abilities, mine doesn't. But, mine would crush pretty much any other juggernaut in melee range and that bothers me.

Should i give my juggernaut some range and make him weaker, or should i keep at it is - a melee destroyer.

ModThe DjinnMay 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}But, mine would crush pretty much any other juggernaut in melee range and that bothers me.

Should i give my juggernaut some range and make him weaker, or should i keep at it is - a melee destroyer.

I would be against supporting something that can "crush any other juggernaut in melee range." Some, like Mordekaiser and Darius are, pretty much, melee only (that pull is only somewhat helpful). If you're reliably beating Nasus / Mordekaiser / Darius / Trundle in melee 1v1 situations I think it's probably too strong.

Some minor reach and/or some VERY minor CC is probably better than being able to single-handed crush ANY character in the game otherwise. Remember -- you can't want to be countered straight-up in lane, and if he automatically wins against other melee duelists than he does EXACTLY that to everyone else.

regonasMay 22, 20161 votes

Completed version http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/JKdAgztd-massive-champion-concept-pazuzu-anzu-the-final-boss-mechanically-complex-juggernaut