High champion concept [Passive] (looking for ideas)

Elite4Runner··1 votes·671 views

I am thinking of a new champion concept that alternates attack form between melee and range.

Yeah yeah, it has been done several times now, but this is still different.

ROLE My thought is for this champion to be a fighter or a skirmisher who has to engage and disengage regularly. I am also very unsure about what sort of abilities would be good for them specifically, and I do understand that these abilities will completely change the feel and balance of the champion. At this time, I'm mostly thinking about the passive, but I am definitely looking for ideas about what abilities would go well with them.

RANGES I want the "ranged" attack range to still be very small, something like Graves attack range (425) and standard melee attack range 125 or 150.

PASSIVE This champion's first attack will ALWAYS begin in the ranged form. Successive attacks within 5 seconds will change attack range form in a pattern of two ranged attacks, two melee attacks, two ranged attacks, two melee attacks, ... and so on

5 seconds out of combat will reset the pattern. This means regardless of your last attack, if you have not attacked for more than 5 seconds, your next attack will be ranged.

UTILITY This would of course all be laid out in the passive, and I also believe that the champion should have some other sort of utility which would help them to engage and/or disengage based on which form they have changed into. The following is simply an example of what COULD be done. I am definitely open to alternatives.

Example;

  • Immediately after your second ranged attack, your attack range changes to melee form and you gain a movement speed boost that rapidly decays over 1 second.

I was a little concerned with the effects the change in form from ranged attacks to melee attacks could play on effective attack speed. My thought here is that the movement speed burst will help to allow the champion to move in to continue attacking. The burst in movement speed could also be useful to help disengage, but it would limit their ability to kite. At the same time, or as an alternative, there could be some form or damage modification or attack speed boost designed to compensate. (again, just looking for ideas as to what you think is better)

  • Immediately after your second melee attack, your attack range changes to ranged form and you dash away from your last target to your maximum attack range.

The change in form from melee to ranged form would not be as much of an issue because your target will already be in range, however, what is the point in having ranged auto attacks if you are in your target's face. As for the specific distance you dash away from your target, I'm not certain that the 'maximum attack range' is best either. This would be great if you are trying to get away from the target, but if you are wanting to continue attacking, they will actually be just out of your attack range if they were already moving away from you. Adjustment can be negotiated as needed.

PATTERN I originally imagined this as an alternation on every other attack. (Ranged, melee, ranged, melee...). My concern with having this would be that it would actually become too confusing and possibly even frustrating, especially with higher attack speeds.

For this reason I am thinking that two attacks per form would be much better. I am not thrilled about the idea of 3 each because the whole 3 auto stack standard is a little too repetitive. (Unless anyone is able to explain why Riot seems to think that this is ideal). 4 or more seems almost too much, but depending on how the rest of their kit is laid out, is a possibility.


RAGEBLADE/PHAONTOM HIT CONSIDERATION I'm not sure that there would need to be too many items specifically considered for the sake of this champion, but I do think that this phantom hit mechanic should be addressed. Typically, the phantom hit will add to the sequence of attacks for champions who have an on-hit stacking passive. If this champion were to alternate on EVERY auto attack, they would essentially attack in both forms simultaneously, and that just seems, ... well, it seems cool, ... but not right. I would say in this case, when the Phantom hit is applied, it would need to be applied in the same form as the previous attack, and would not count toward the change in form. So in this case your attacks would be as follows (lower-case letters are phantom attacks)

R M R M R M (full stacks) R M m R M m R M m or M R M R M R (full stacks) M R r M R r M R r

With 2 or more attacks per form, the same principle can be applied

R R M M R R (full stacks) R R r M M m R R r M M m

RANGE SPECIFIC PASSIVE/ITEMS Like other champions who have the ability to change their attack range type, this champion would be able to purchase items with range limitations, but the related effects are applied based on their current range type.


As I have said, this is still very high concept at this stage. I am looking for feedback and ideas. If you want to take this concept and try and come up with your own champion, go ahead. I'd be happy to see it if you want to comment with a link here.

The last reason for me to share this is really just so that I have it down somewhere for me to refer back to later. I always find that it really helps for me to design a champion when I have it down in writing, opposed to just thinking of everything in my head. The champion also tends to evolve in the process, which happened with this one as well.

9 Comments

ShuffledPancake1 votes

Only read the first few parts but it really seems like Jayce, small attack range, switches between two forms, has to engage and dis engage often - (E - q - R - q w - e -r ) repeat basically. Just seems like Jayce as far as ive read

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Only read the first few parts but it really seems like Jayce, small attack range, switches between two forms, has to engage and dis engage often - (E - q - R - q w - e -r ) repeat basically. Just seems like Jayce as far as ive read

Then maybe you should read the rest ....

ShuffledPancake1 votes

{quoted}

Then maybe you should read the rest ....

I have now and it just helps my case, you also wanted and ats buff or something like it, (Jayce's W in ranged form), you seem to be worried about repetition but i feel as though the whole gimmick of switching between forms very often is in itself repetitive

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

I have now and it just helps my case, you also wanted and ats buff or something like it, (Jayce's W in ranged form), you seem to be worried about repetition but i feel as though the whole gimmick of switching between forms very often is in itself repetitive

You know, you have a valid point.

And now that you mention it, the melee only or ranged only types have been done to death too.

Might as well stop making those Riot ...

FloRaider421 votes

Somehow this idea feels a bit to gimmiky and hard to pull off without a good theme to tie it together. I could imagine a blade-thrower that has to retrieve his blades from the target to continue attacking from range as a base. That aside there aren't that many themes that make "I'm gonna alternate my range every AA" believable.

CobaltTheMadMage2 votes

{quoted}

Somehow this idea feels a bit to gimmiky and hard to pull off without a good theme to tie it together. I could imagine a blade-thrower that has to retrieve his blades from the target to continue attacking from range as a base. That aside there aren't that many themes that make "I'm gonna alternate my range every AA" believable.

I actually had a champ that was two creatures that could turn into weapons taking turns wielding each other, except I had them switch out whenever an ability was used or at least recast while on cooldown. Sadly the idea has yet to get off the ground as I am struggling to make sure the don't just end up like another Jayce.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Somehow this idea feels a bit to gimmiky and hard to pull off without a good theme to tie it together. I could imagine a blade-thrower that has to retrieve his blades from the target to continue attacking from range as a base. That aside there aren't that many themes that make "I'm gonna alternate my range every AA" believable.

I was trying to think of a theme for this. I feel like it would be much easier than with Beakin lol. It could be something as simple as they have two gunblades, one in each hand. They fire one shot from each, and for some reason (call it magic) each reloads after a melee attack or after 5 seconds out of combat.

Or they could have a gun with two shots in one hand and a sword in the other. They will always prefer to use his gun, but when out of bullets he uses his sword, .. which again, reloads through the power of magic.

This magical reload makes just as much sense as Graves's ability to reload by dashing.

Yes, the first one feels too much like Lucian and the second feels a little too much like Gangplank, but aesthetically, mechanically, and thematically they could be as similar in the way that Aatrox, Fiora, Kayle, Leona, Riven, Tryndamere, and Yasuo are similar for having a one handed sword.

FloRaider421 votes

{quoted}

I'd say that Graves reloading his shotgun during a dash is much more plausible (albeit a bit hollywoodesque) than "magically" reloading a gun by attacking someone with it. Knifes make some sense in that regard and maybe a gunblade using blood could work too (IMHO make it onehanded though) The sword and gun fighting style is fairly close to GP and he pulls it of fairly well, without feeling weird.

As long as they have enough differences to existing champions it will be fine. That said the sword users use different swords (katana, rapier, longsword, greatsword,...) and styles (magic, shield and sword, brute force... ), whereas sword and pistol is already fairly close to GP.

Edit: Unless anyone is able to explain why Riot seems to think that this is ideal

it would actually become too confusing and possibly even frustrating, especially with higher attack speeds 4 or more seems almost too much

You already have the basic idea :D Basically 2 AA can be applied to easily (think any effect with AA reset and the little reaction time this gives) whereas 4 AA almost is too much

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

I'd say that Graves reloading his shotgun during a dash is much more plausible (albeit a bit hollywoodesque) than "magically" reloading a gun by attacking someone with it. Knifes make some sense in that regard and maybe a gunblade using blood could work too (IMHO make it onehanded though)

But even the 3rd AA mechanic doesn't really make all that much sense on its own either. Why would attacking someone a 3rd time have any additional damage, or trigger any added effect than the 1st, 2nd, or even the 4th? There are many things in the game that really don't make that much logical sense, so I don't see this being too much of a stretch. And I had considered the idea of claiming that it uses blood. Ultimately, that all comes down to developing a theme to rationalize the abilities.

The sword and gun fighting style is fairly close to GP and he pulls it of fairly well, without feeling weird.

As long as they have enough differences to existing champions it will be fine. That said the sword users use different swords (katana, rapier, longsword, greatsword,...) and styles (magic, shield and sword, brute force... ), whereas sword and pistol is already fairly close to GP.

Sure, and I would definitely expect this champion to have a significantly different style as well. Simply being fairly mobile is already a significant difference between this champion and GP.

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