Some champions don't deal magic damage, but all champions deal physical damage.

Elite4Runner··63 votes·18,971 views

This is obviously because all champions have the ability to use basic attacks, and basic attacks deal physical damage.

.. but, should they?

There are lots of basic attacks that are obviously physical. Champions that use natural weapons, swords, staves, axes, hammers, a scythe, guns, bow and arrows, crossbows and bolts, ..

Many magic based champions "throw" magical bolts of energy from their hands as basic attacks.

Shouldn't these deal magic damage?

I understand that this was most likely done initially for simplicity, .. but I think we should be beyond that at this point.

And I think it would also be important to separate the distinction of "attack damage" from physical damage in the same way that we seperate "ability power" with magic damage. Basic attacks, like abilities, should be able to scale with AD and/or AP, and still deal either magic or physical damage, or in some cases a mixture of both.


Edit: Literally all I am suggesting to change is the type of damage output through basic attacks.

The way basic attack damage is calculated would not necessarily change, however this does also open up that possibility.

For example, Syndra has a Base Attack Damage at level 1 of 53.9. Her basic attacks (without any additional AD) deal 53.9 physical damage. I am suggesting that she should instead be dealing 53.9 magic damage.

Buying AP would not increase her basic attack damage. Buying AD would increase her basic attack damage, but it would still be dealt as magic damage.

Why? This would make a purely magic damage champion weaker to enemies who have MR. As I pointed out in the title, there are champions who deal no magic damage. These champions are weaker against enemies that buy armor.

NOT ALL MAGES SHOULD HAVE THIS DONE TO THEM! But, I think it would be reasonable if some did.

115 Comments

Juice42 votes

Why is ignite dealing damage to Brand?

Elite4Runner14 votes

Amaterasu burns fire

ORlANNAGRANDE4 votes

I wouldnt mind if they changed certain interactions in the game to make logical sense.

If you ignite Brand, you’ll actually heal him.

If you Blind Lee Sin, he becomes stronger for the duration of the blind.

If Ahri Charms Taric, it’s ineffective because he’s gay.

If you kill Karthus, you lose the game.

Elite4Runner3 votes

I could see an argument for Brand taking 1 less damage per tick from Ignite. There is a precedent in the game where skins that give the champion eye protection cause them to take 1 less damage from all of Leona's abilities.

I think Lee probably actually should be immune, or at least have a decreased duration against blinds.

The other two are a bit too much though.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

{quoted}

If you ignite Brand, he should instantly explode.

If you Blind Lee Sin, he becomes trapped in a paradox and cannot do anything until it's resolved.

Ftfy

Terozu9 votes

Actually canonically Teemo uses a special chemical on LeeSin that restores sight momentarily to disorient him.

The Goodest Boy1 votes

If you kill Karthus, you lose the game.

this is already true LOL

ORlANNAGRANDE1 votes

I mean if you kill him you auto lose the whole game

Espy Psyche11 votes

This would affect: Ahri Anivia Annie Azir Bard Brand Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Janna Karma Karthus Leblanc Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Ryze Sona Soraka Swain Syndra Veigar Velkoz Viktor Vladimir Xerath Ziggs Zoe Zyra

All of these are pretty straightforward -- they cast a basic spell as their basic attack.

A few other champions have strange interactions with this:

AurelionSol -- His auto attack is sort of a breath weapon. Would his breath weapon deal magic damage? I vote Yes on Aurelion Sol. Elise -- In human form she has a ranged magical auto attack, but in spider form she uses melee attacks. So maybe her autos in human form can do magic damage, but her spider form autos continue to do physical damage? Orianna -- She's in a really strange place. Orianna doesn't shoot a magical blast as her basic attack, she throws a projectile (which would be physical damage), but her basic attacks already scale with magic damage. Taliyah -- Her basic attack is throwing rocks, which are projectiles, but throwing rocks as Taliyah is a spell because she's the Stoneweaver. I would vote Yes for Taliyah. Corki -- Right now his basic attacks actually do magic damage (80%), but his basic attack is a bullet. Corki can stay the way he is, since his passive is "Hextech Shells" and imply that his bullets are in fact magic. Ezreal -- Ezreal is literally a mage whose spells do physical damage. So even though his basic attack is a spell, it would deal physical damage anyway. Heimerdinger -- Though an AP-scaling champion, Heimerdinger throws objects instead of casting spells or firing energy blasts like his magic damage turrets. I would vote No for Heimerdinger, his should stay physical. Kaisa -- Kai'sa launches some sort of dark bolt, which is a spell like basic attack. She also scales with AP, but scales with AD too, and some of her abilities that launch dark bolts scale off AP and some off AD. There is no definitive answer. Kennen -- Deals magic damage, but he throws a shuriken instead of casting a lightning bolt. I would vote No for Kennen, his should stay physical. KogMaw -- We've determined that his acid spit abilities deal magic damage. Would that mean Kog'maw, whose basic attacks are him spitting acid, deals magic damage on basic attack? Nidalee -- Throws a spear as her basic attack, but her Q is also throwing a spear that does magic damage. This seems like she should still do physical damage on basic attack -- her short range spears are normal spears that deal physical damage, but her long range spear she throws for Q (a different kind of spear -- note how it has four times the range) is enchanted and deals magic damage. Teemo -- His darts do magic damage over time from the poison. But that's from poison applied to the dart, not the dart itself. The dart is physical damage and the poison on it is magic damage. I would vote No on Teemo, keep it physical. Zilean -- Zilean throws a projectile, and it's not like the projectile he throws for his Q. I vote No for Zilean -- keep it physical.

Telephone Booth4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Espy Psyche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdmAWxPK,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-11-02T22:22:36.073+0000)

This would affect: Ahri Anivia Annie Azir Bard Brand Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Janna Karma Karthus Leblanc Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Ryze Sona Soraka Swain Syndra Veigar Velkoz Viktor Vladimir Xerath Ziggs Zoe

I dont think anivia should do magic damage with her autos. Its a block of ice. Thats blunt force. Like getting hit by a rock, but its a solid chunk of ice.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

velkoz attacks with his tentacles. anivia throws chunks of ice and ziggs throws bombs.

Xilixer3 votes

vel'koz doesn't atttack with his tentacles. He points his tentacle at his target and a magical laser strikes the opponent.

FOR JUSTICE7 votes

tbh i find it odd how turrets are the only things that take magic damage from basic attacks if you build AP

~~ it takes the higher of either your bonus AD, or 60% of your AP. if its AP the whole attack converts to magic damage~~ it takes the damage when attacking a turret while your AP is more than double your bonus AD. and it converts the whole attack to magic damage

Moody P4 votes

this is better for balance.

Elite4Runner5 votes

I can't tell if you are suggesting that the current system is better for balance of if my suggestion is better for balance.

??

Moody P5 votes

the current, your idea is terrible lol. imagine having to deal with magic AA harass from ranged champions in the early game

additionally some champs just aren't meant to have strong autos, mages included. they transition into spells so they can be balanced around their spells, else every mage who scales autos off AP would double down on it with nashors

it's the way it is because it's universal and clearly understood

Elite4Runner2 votes

I'm not suggesting that champions who aren't meant to have strong auto attacks would have stronger auto attacks. There is no need to change the way that their basic attacks scale. They would still scale with Attack Damage, just like they do now, .. but some of them would make more sense to deal magic damage instead of physical damage.

The only thing that would really need to be changed for balance would be that magic resistance would become about as common as armor.

This actually balances resistances because the current system favors armor over magic resistance because everything can deal physical damage.

Hektik1 votes

This is a bad idea because of balance. What would stop someone from building ad to deal magic DMG. Building defenses against that is hard because the way armor items are built, are to deal with auto atks but now they can't because their isn't a MR item that would deal with magic DMG autos

Elite4Runner1 votes

I don't think some of you are really reading my comments. Even the specific comment you are replying to addresses this.

The champions that this would impact don't already scale well with attack damage. By building attack damage to increase the magic damage that they deal through auto attacks, they are limiting their magic damage output from their abilities. It wouldn't be to their advantage.

And again, this would potentially cause a shift in the availability of magic resistance. I don't see why that is a bad thing.

Hektik1 votes

I don't think you understand how big a can a worms opens up for the balance team What are you gonna build to efficiently count a lb with Phantom dancer IE and a wits end

Elite4Runner1 votes

Once again, you simply aren't reading what I said.

NOT ALL MAGES SHOULD HAVE THIS DONE TO THEM! But, I think it would be reasonable if some did.

flibitydoo7 votes

{quoted} The only thing that would really need to be changed for balance would be that magic resistance would become about as common as armor.

"only thing"

you mean you'd need to restructure the entire MR itemization just to let this idea work. Things like a magic resistance based thornmail/randuins/frozen heart/ninja tabis Things like completely reworking the MR base stat on literally every champion in the game Things like, because of the previous point, restructuring the damage of all damage spells since if MR values are changed like this then the impact of normal magic damage abilities losing their power.

If you want more champions to be as big of a balance mess as azir who can deal 0% physical damage to champions in a game, then all I have to say to you, is good luck

ZephyrDrake4 votes

How to completely destroy game balance with a single change. Making any auto deal magic damage instead of physical will just make them completely busted with ADC items since MR doesn't do well against sustained damage. So unless you plan on doing a massive overhaul for MR items so that they just as effective against burst damage AND sustained damage then this won't end well at all

Elite4Runner1 votes

How do you figure? Yeah, it would have an impact, but I don't see there being a significant impact to break the game.

If Riot is selective about which champions they adjust in this way, most likely none of their other abilities would scale on AD, .. so they would have a lot of magic damage from their auto attacks, but they would not gain the AP scaling that they normally would in their abilities.

ZephyrDrake5 votes

{quoted}

How do you figure? Yeah, it would have an impact, but I don't see there being a significant impact to break the game.

If Riot is selective about which champions they adjust in this way, most likely none of their other abilities would scale on AD, .. so they would have a lot of magic damage from their auto attacks, but they would not gain the AP scaling that they normally would in their abilities.

you are severely underestimating how impactful this would be. Why would anyone care about damage from their abilities when they would deal just as much damage, way more consistently and without the need to wait for CDs with their autos? MR is ill suited for consistent damage that is why the very few consistent magic damage dealers that we have are such a pain to get in any sort of balanced state. They are either too strong or too weak in most situations.

5050BS4 votes

I always found it unfair that Yi can buy a AD item and his Sword Auto attacks gain damage but Veigar can an AP item but his MAGIC WAND does not gain damage.

Step Sis Lux3 votes

i was always thinking about same thing, like why would syndra void/dark autoattack or whatever be psychical instead of magical? Or like ziggs every skill is bomb, his aa is also bomb, so why is it ad

Drakath20023 votes

Warwick is the only champion whos AA deal magic damage instead of physical

thought id point this out

Who Fed Ru4 votes

They don't.

He has bonus magic damage on them, but the base damage is still physical.

Elite4Runner7 votes

That is not true. His basic attacks still deal physical damage, but his passive causes his basic attacks to also deal bonus magic damage.

He is also not the only champion that does this. Elise, Orianna, and Tahm Kench are just a few others.

I believe Corki is the only champion who has a portion of his total basic attack damage converted from physical damage into magic damage.

Madsin252 votes

Corki

QuadraBananas2 votes

{quoted}

Warwick is the only champion whos AA deal magic damage instead of physical

thought id point this out

Braum after passive Corki his aa deal 80% ap dmg Orianna she deal bonus ap dmg on aa

Elite4Runner5 votes

Magic damage, not ap damage. It is important to separate the two in order for this concept to work.

FOR JUSTICE3 votes

actually this would be a nice champion design, maybe an ADC that does not deal any physical damage, even from basic attacks.

yeah he can start dorans ring plus a pot or two, and his passive makes his basic attacks deal a % of his AP as bonus damage

unless a DPS mage already exists?

Beatrice falls3 votes

{quoted}

actually this would be a nice champion design, maybe an ADC that does not deal any physical damage, even from basic attacks.

yeah he can start dorans ring plus a pot or two, and his passive makes his basic attacks deal a % of his AP as bonus damage

unless a DPS mage already exists?

Azir Cassiopeia Corki When they've been trash tier for so long that people forget they exist

DorkunedAuras3 votes

Karthus autos do magic damage

Elite4Runner2 votes

No, his basic attacks still deal physical damage.

DorkunedAuras4 votes

It's a joke about his Qs being his autos

Elite4Runner2 votes

Oh, .. funny ... ha [sg-lux-2]

nuclearwarpotato2 votes

WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

Elite4Runner1 votes

I really don't see how saying something that is simply false is a joke.

I understand that Karthus uses his Q more than his auto attacks, ... but his auto attacks still deal physical damage, .. so it's not even a joke, ... it's just wrong.

If they had said something like

Karthus's auto attacks deal magic damage, but you have to press the Q key.

At least that would be a reference to the fact that his ability is basically his auto attack.

nuclearwarpotato2 votes

So basically there has been a joke in the community for many years now (since before I started playing in season 3) that Karthus uses his Q so often that its almost like thats his auto attack. Just because you did not get the joke (hence the WHOOOSH) does not make it not so.

Elite4Runner1 votes

You're not explaining something to me that I don't already know.

The initial comment has no correlation. It is a short statement that is simply false in the context of my subject.

You're all beating this horse to death because you think it makes me look like I don't understand a "joke" that was poorly presented.

nuclearwarpotato1 votes

Well seeing as you could not find the comedic value in the statement presented above that was so obviously false that it must be a joke and instead could only see that the statement was incorrect I would that it IS safe to assume you got WHOOOOOOOOSHED.

nuclearwarpotato1 votes

I might be beating a dead horse but at least I am not refusing to admit that I could not get a joke and instead am desperately trying to shift the focus of the conversation onto the faults of others.

Elite4Runner1 votes

OMG lol!

I'm not refusing to admit that I didn't understand the joke because it wasn't presented as a joke. This isn't Memes & Games. For all I knew this person was literally saying that they thought Karthus dealt magic damage with his auto attacks. I don't doubt that there are people out there who genuinely don't know the difference.

They might have intended for it to be a joke, but they gave no indication that they were joking. No emoji or even a smiley face.

Another person bascally made the exact same comment, but it was clear it was a joke.

Do you blame the audience for not laughing when a comedian stands on stage and butchers their own material? No.

And it wasn't even your comment! STFU lol

nuclearwarpotato1 votes

"I'm not refusing to admit that I didn't understand the joke because it wasn't presented as a joke." This. You literally are refusing to admit that you didn't understand it. You are blaming the presenter for your failure to understand it.

On the note of your comparison. If a single person in the audience doesn't understand a comedian's joke do we blame the comedian for not presenting a joke in a special manner for this one person or do we blame the single person who got WHOOOOOSHED?

Elite4Runner1 votes

There is another comment in here where someone said "Karthus autos do magic damage"

I corrected them, .. because it isn't true, and everyone is trying to make it out like I simply didn't understand their joke.

It wasn't even presented as a joke.

Yours is presented as a joke.

Upvoted

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