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You know, we don't really have a juggernaut that gets weaker as fights go on

Asayake 5150glow·5/31/2017, 12:29:54 AM·1 votes·290 views

Most of our juggernauts get stronger as they survive longer in a fight - best example is Darius, massively spiking once he gets his 5 stacks. Morde's W rewards surviving long enough to pop it, and his third Q does more damage than his first 2. Nasus gets more armor/mr as his R ticks. Illaoi gets to smash people with her 2 second W CD after ulting. Shyvana gets to utilize her massive DPS.

While that's fine from a balance standpoint, you know, reward the juggernauts who survive long enough to deal damage, it feels kinda shit to play as. That's because if you fail, you get bursted down, which isn't fun at all.

A juggernaut who is hard to burst down, stronger in the beginning of the fight, and gets weaker as it goes on is a concept we've never really seen. I'd wanna see how that works out.

Obviously they'd be better against burst oriented skirmishers and divers, while tanks with low cooldown %maxhealth damage would be able to tank him up and then outduel him (maybe).

10 Comments

Big Lincoln5/31/2017, 12:46:23 AM3 votes

Who would want to play a champion that has trouble getting into a fight, and then gets weaker as the fight goes on?

Garen sort of does this since his W provides so much durability but has a long cooldown, and look at him, he's the worst character in the game.

A juggernaut who gets dramatically worse in extended fights would need a means to disengage those fights, but that would probably just mean they end up as a defensive/peel tank.

ModThe Djinn5/31/2017, 6:04:39 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=7czgmMq9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-31T00:29:54.096+0000)A juggernaut who is hard to burst down, stronger in the beginning of the fight, and gets weaker as it goes on is a concept we've never really seen. I'd wanna see how that works out.

So the reason we don't have any of these burst-juggernauts is that the whole idea of a juggernaut is that they will destroy you in a close-range fight, but their counterplay is kiting and teamwork to keep them at bay.

If their damage is front-loaded, their counterplay becomes "NEVER BE NEAR ME" instead of "I will kill you if I can stick to you, so run." In effect they become a tanky burst assassin, which is a terrifying concept -- and usually really unhealthy when we see them. They also no longer fit the juggernaut goal of "wins duels in melee range," as they weaken as the fight progresses.

Cho'Gath is about the closest we have to this -- his nuke is Q+W+R, and it's pretty nasty. Usually any AP-based tank can function this way -- AP Amumu is a durable burst caster, as is AP Malphite, AP Nautilus, etc. So this type does exist -- they're just not juggernauts, by definition.

Joxcab5/31/2017, 12:31:53 AM1 votes

But then the issue is it becomes hell to ever try and engage in a fight or even start a fight because of said strength.

With current juggernauts, it builds up which allows for people to take them out or stop them before they hit maximum power.

Visionova5/31/2017, 12:40:20 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=7czgmMq9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-31T00:29:54.096+0000)

A juggernaut who is hard to burst down, stronger in the beginning of the fight, and gets weaker as it goes on is a concept we've never really seen. I'd wanna see how that works out.

Isn't this basically Garen?

Once his W expires, he doesn't have much left besides his E's armor shred, and that's if he can hit a target enough times without just being stopped cold by CC.

Cocho5/31/2017, 12:45:39 AM1 votes

Illaoi

Once her ult runs out, she's significantly weaker. She bursts people hard at the start of a fight if she can get multiple people in her ult

HalfTangible5/31/2017, 3:43:21 AM1 votes

Isn't that just a vanguard?