is not a tank.
Take a look at his kit. What makes you think he is one? Shit, Yi has more defensive abilities than him and no one calls Yi a tank.
Tank Aatrox is stupid anyway - you bring 1 knock up and 1 slow, both of which use %health, 10% and 5% respectivelly. Do you really wanna use 150 health for a slow? How about 300 for a knock up?
CrimsonReaps6 votesNot full tank but grabbing a spirit visage, or a frozen mallet can be helpful, Bruiser is more the term.
Asayake 5150glow2 votesNot full tank but grabbing a spirit visage, or a frozen mallet can be helpful, Bruiser is more the term.
Frozen Mallet sounds nice against tanks, but seems like it would be more of a hindrance against other bruiser/duelists. Spirit Visage is good duh, but I know someone who builds that on Yas after BT (he takes warlord's as well). I'd call him more a duelist, bruisers are burstier. They generally have total AD scalings/ap scalings and high base damages (and don't build attack speed).
Doctor Jarvis5 votesHe is not a tank. He does, however, build a non-zero amount of tank items, because higher max health is A) good for him, since he's constantly in the middle of combat, B) it makes his Blood Well fill faster without making him die faster (even though the costs are higher, the pool is higher too), and C) he really only has synergy with, like, 3 damage items.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ysseHPQ1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-03T15:19:13.856+0000)
He is not a tank. He does, however, build a non-zero amount of tank items, because higher max health is A) good for him, since he's constantly in the middle of combat, B) it makes his Blood Well fill faster without making him die faster (even though the costs are higher, the pool is higher too), and C) he really only has synergy with, like, 3 damage items.
A) Meh, wouldn't resistances be better tho? After all, AD and resistances synergize with his w heal, health does not.
B) Well it still makes him die faster (uses more life) but I get your point, however since his ult is about 60 sec cd mid game I wouldn't worry about filling it too slowly.
C) Bork, Rav, bloodrazor if jgling... yep, you're right. But Death's Dance/Bloodthirster are still good... and maybe a Maw/Mercurial if magic damage.
Doctor Jarvis1 votesA) Well yeah, but its not like you're building a Titanic, you're building things like Spirit Visage or Randuin's Omen, so you'll have resistances anyway. B) I think we're saying the same thing here, and we're both right. 10% of 3000 is 300, which is more than 10% of 2000 (200), but it makes each payment less impactful on the whole because you'll have more health after them. C) Yeah, those were the three. Then stuff like Spirit Visage, Randuin's and uh...man Aatrox does NOT have good synergies with items...
Schoenberg5 votesMy argument: Rework aatrox
Insanity Song2 votesMy counter argument: Big rework
Chamuel852 votesHe's a Diver. Who plays him tank?
Asayake 5150glow1 votesHe's a Diver. Who plays him tank?
No one I've seen, but some still expect it 0_o
DunkinNoobs2 votesAatrox is a melee carry that lacks the sticking power necessary to do his job. That's his biggest issue as a champon; he simply doesn't have enough tools to make up for being an auto reliant melee champion. I personally would love a speed boost towards enemies while his ult is active, because Aatrox is simply too easy to run away from during his moments of power. Upping his auto range from 150 to 175 would also be a huge boon. Literally 0 reason that Aatrox has less auto range than Yasuo, Garen, and Darius. Hell, you could probably even make it 200. Have you seen how big that sword is?
Insanity Song1 votesMaybe like his ult the Aoe marks enemies hit by it giving Aatrox a speed boost when running to them?
Failog1 votesExactly. His attack range should be longer. They just leave him in the gutter because he "comes back to life". If by that the mean, takes an extra 4 seconds to die, then sure.
AirKingNeo2 votesSo build him as a fighter? Cleaver PD DD Mallet Visage.
Sylvant2 votesWho said Aatrox is tank and who are you arguing with? The thing with Aatrox is he has sustain health and damage and low burst, so his only option is to go tanky in the current meta, where everything is decided by burst and sustain type of play can only work with broken mechanics like Yas, or Ekko overloaded kit. Unlike the last two, his problem is he require itemS to make any use of his "toxic" kit as some people categorize it.
Failog1 votesWho says he is a Tank?
Um, RIOT? He is classified as a Fighter and a secondary Tank.
Sylvant1 votesthe problem is the tags Riot use to describe champs are very old and narrow. You could prolly disagree with 40% of the classifications and have the right ground for that, but you can still argue that tank can be a valid off-feat. for Aatrox. Would you give more appropriate second grade classification? Maybe assassin or mage...i doubt that.
Ralanr1 votesPeople call him a tank? Really?
Asayake 5150glow1 votesPeople call him a tank? Really?
Yep.
Shrek Luigi1 votesPeople generally start off with three damage-centric items and invest the last two into HP+resistance items like DMP or Spirit Visage--Aatrox has absolutely no tank-scaling to speak of but does need a big enough HP pool to stand up to burst damage in midgame-scraps and beyond. Building him like a glass-cannon can work, especially once you have a Guardian Angel up, and benifits a lot from OnHit items due to the nature of his kit, but is a much riskier method of play and generally more-experienced players won't fall for his gimmicks. As far as OnHit carries go, there are a handful of them that do it a lot better than Aatrox, since so much of his power-budget is invested in self-healing rather than doing huge damage or having a lot of utility.
Aatrox is way more flexible of a champion than many people on the boards will give him credit for, though. He isn't gridlocked into maxing W first--sometInes it's better to just max E and get a quick Gunblade+Rageblade up and just harass an enemy toplaner with ranged magic-damage pokes. Aatrox seldom wins matches that drag on well into the late game anyways, so it's better to just buy whatever makes sense at that given time and try to win it earlier than later.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ysseHPQ1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-10-03T16:39:52.362+0000)
People generally start off with three damage-centric items and invest the last two into HP+resistance items like DMP or Spirit Visage--Aatrox has absolutely no tank-scaling to speak of but does need a big enough HP pool to stand up to burst damage in midgame-scraps and beyond. Building him like a glass-cannon can work, especially once you have a Guardian Angel up, and benifits a lot from OnHit items due to the nature of his kit, but is a much riskier method of play and generally more-experienced players won't fall for his gimmicks. As far as OnHit carries go, there are a handful of them that do it a lot better than Aatrox, since so much of his power-budget is invested in self-healing rather than doing huge damage or having a lot of utility.
Aatrox is way more flexible of a champion than many people on the boards will give him credit for, though. He isn't gridlocked into maxing W first--sometInes it's better to just max E and get a quick Gunblade+Rageblade up and just harass an enemy toplaner with ranged magic-damage pokes. Aatrox seldom wins matches that drag on well into the late game anyways, so it's better to just buy whatever makes sense at that given time and try to win it earlier than later.
Wha-t
Don't u always max e tho? (top, that is)
And I've tower dove a Rengar late game (yes I was fed but still), who is a little tanky, not very.
Also, I'd like your opinion of Triforce. I can't seem to find an optimal item after bork rav, nothing really works tooo well (deaths dance is ok). There aren't many attack speed items for bruiser/duelists (which is why most jungle) :/
Shrek Luigi1 votesYou can max W first against tanks and bully them out of lane with AAs. You can also distribute points evenly between E and W against match ups where the outcome isn't certain, itemizing a bit beefier than you would with other toplane builds, which gives a nice mix of waveclear and survivability when your lane opponent starts shoving the waves to your side.
I've never bothered with TForce on Aatrox. 20% CDR is pretty nice but I've never found a lot of the stats it gives to be particularly helpful for laning with him--mana, a small chunk of HP, a little extra movespeed, a miniscule amount of AD and a Sheen proc that Aatrox lacks an adequate AA-reset for....good on other champions, but very lackluster on Aatrox.
What you build depends entirely on the pages you're using and the enemy Champs you have to tango with during midgame. Black Cleaver or Sterakks would be a good followup to those two, but the correct answer tends to vary a lot. Sometimes a Wits End or a GA is better.
I run a very cheesy Aatrox build up-top since I find him a little on the weak side when it comes to the contemporary build. Scaling AD reds, scaling AP blues, scaling armor yellows, and 1 Quint each for the three aforementioned stats on a 12/18/0 mastery page with thunderlords. Farm safely in lane until midgame maxing E>W>Q, buy Gunblade + Rageblade (and magic-pen boots for maximum Troll Factor), and obliterate squishies with your rotation and some autos. Aatrox can pull off his rotation very quickly and very easily, and Rageblade makes your W proc more. It's a very cheesy build but it's fun as hell.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ysseHPQ1,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T19:13:16.670+0000)
You can max W first against tanks and bully them out of lane with AAs. You can also distribute points evenly between E and W against match ups where the outcome isn't certain, itemizing a bit beefier than you would with other toplane builds, which gives a nice mix of waveclear and survivability when your lane opponent starts shoving the waves to your side.
I've never bothered with TForce on Aatrox. 20% CDR is pretty nice but I've never found a lot of the stats it gives to be particularly helpful for laning with him--mana, a small chunk of HP, a little extra movespeed, a miniscule amount of AD and a Sheen proc that Aatrox lacks an adequate AA-reset for....good on other champions, but very lackluster on Aatrox.
What you build depends entirely on the pages you're using and the enemy Champs you have to tango with during midgame. Black Cleaver or Sterakks would be a good followup to those two, but the correct answer tends to vary a lot. Sometimes a Wits End or a GA is better.
I run a very cheesy Aatrox build up-top since I find him a little on the weak side when it comes to the contemporary build. Scaling AD reds, scaling AP blues, scaling armor yellows, and 1 Quint each for the three aforementioned stats on a 12/18/0 mastery page with thunderlords. Farm safely in lane until midgame maxing E>W>Q, buy Gunblade + Rageblade (and magic-pen boots for maximum Troll Factor), and obliterate squishies with your rotation and some autos. Aatrox can pull off his rotation very quickly and very easily, and Rageblade makes your W proc more. It's a very cheesy build but it's fun as hell.
Lol, thats cool. I've been wanting to try hybrid aatrox :P
I mention triforce cuz of the 40% attack speed, I don't see cdr that useful unless AP in which case you gotta be spamming those E's. Sheen proc is ok but it doesn't seem too powerful (if you q in you can proc it instantly), but mainly my problem with it is no lifesteal. Bullying with auto's doesn't really work in lane tho, since minion aggro. They have to be in your minions for that. I see the sustain coming in handy tho, I guess there are match ups where you just wanna sustain and farm instead of poke farm and kill. He's a lot of kill potential with lvl 6 if he doesn't get cc'd and bursted.
Shrek Luigi1 votesCDR is mega useful due to the long cooldown on his Q, which you can't invest points in until W and E are finished. Helps a lot with play-making.
Also, when you max W first you can easily outsustain the damage coming from minion waves while outright tanking all the damage most tank-toplaner opponents can crank out easily. As long as you keep your Q handy for escapes then you can absolutely dominate your lane in specific matchups and be extremely hard to gank in the process.
SiG DxD1 voteshow to define a tank: anyone but aatrox.
GULAG 4 U1 votesAatrox has NO base stats
Aatrox needs damage to be able to have more in-fight sustain
No utility nor reliable garbage compared to normal tanks
Conclusion? Aatrox is not a tank. Better off going phantomdancer and death's dance plus a ravenous hydra for some freelo.
LichKing2341 votesok as an aatrox main you are right but heres the thing aatrox is a brusier personly one of his core items is a
aatrox lacks sticking power his kit revolves around him being in the fight and staying in there to heal while yes hes not a true tank as i find a tank to be someone with alot of soft and hard CC and being hard to kill but he does need 1 or 2 tank items (outside of boots) to not get blown up cause 1 aatrox doesnt have the best health pool (i think its the worst for any toplaner) and 2 if he goes full dps he will get blown up that is a fact so he needs a tank item or 2 so he wont get blown up.
now his builds can verisify somewhat personly i like his brusier build cause your not easy to kill and you lifesteal fordays aslong as you got something to auto besides towers .
i seen his ap build works as 
, 
does work with his kit well his E and R mostly as they do got pretty good ratios.
i have seen crit aatrox witch works but you get blown up and i seen full lifesteal aatrox witch also works but again blown up.
now im not trying to say aatrox is a tank hes not by no regards but he is a brusier for the formost he was ment to be a ad substain hypercarry but do to the nerfs he got i think after his release cause he could just heal from any dmg you did to him but they nerfed that so hes more brusier than hypercarry.
Bârd1 votesAatrox is conflicted.
His kit wants an AD build badly, but doesn't work if he builds AD. His health costs scale with his max hp, but his blood pool is static, so he charges his blood more slowly the less HP he buys. His W health cost scales with his AD, so building damage on him causes him to kill himself. His passive gives a lot of attack speed and some durability, but if you get popped, you lose ALL your blood, so you lose a lot of attack speed.
He only has one mobility spell; a short ranged jump that gets interrupted by seemingly everything, so he needs to build enough durability to get to his target before he dies.
You have 3 options buildwise (generally speaking):
Not to mention how he is outclassed by similar champions.
His passive and W are 90% of his power budget, but both of them are the worst in their class.
W is a damage amp/heal on hit. Xin and Irelia both have better versions of this.
His passive is a revive. Zilean and Zac both have much better revives.
Oh, and the whole "lifesteal carry" thing doesn't work at all with his lore.
He is an angel of death, coming into battle to lead the losing side to victory, making them believe in their bloodlust that what they were doing was right; no matter how many must die. He is a commander; a vanguard; a bloodthirsty support who leads the charge.
badooga1 votesI generally never have any issues with Aatrox's health costs, as his W lets him heal right back up to full in no time. The only time it really matters is when you are using your W damage in a teamfight, in which you have to switch back at a certain point (i.e. at 50% health) so that you can survive longer.
Anyway, Aatrox doesn't have good enough scalings in order to build full AD (he's item dependent, and he's too squishy when he does), so as an Aatrox main, I build him with a mix of offense and defense. For example, here's the build I was going for when I went 8/1/20 last game as Aatrox:
Aatrox works with that kind of build as his tankiness + W heal allow him to survive much longer in fights than if he went with a full AD build, which is also necessary as he does sustained damage with low burst, so he needs to live long enough to dish out all of that damage.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI generally never have any issues with Aatrox's health costs, as his W lets him heal right back up to full in no time. The only time it really matters is when you are using your W damage in a teamfight, in which you have to switch back at a certain point (i.e. at 50% health) so that you can survive longer.
Anyway, Aatrox doesn't have good enough scalings in order to build full AD (he's item dependent, and he's too squishy when he does), so as an Aatrox main, I build him with a mix of offense and defense. For example, here's the build I was going for when I went 8/1/20 last game as Aatrox:
Aatrox works with that kind of build as his tankiness + W heal allow him to survive much longer in fights than if he went with a full AD build, which is also necessary as he does sustained damage with low burst, so he needs to live long enough to dish out all of that damage.
Meh, with pretty much glass cannon build you can kill squishies in 2 seconds, half of which they are knocked up for.
The health cost is that in teamfights, if you're full tank and Q+E in thats maybe 650 (well, I'm too lazy to do the actual math) life gone right there, which resistances dont migitate either. Being a tank means your W doesnt heal as much (it scales off AD) and you won't get the doubling from being under half till you've taken a lot of damage, and by that point it's too late. You're build looks good tho (well I don't know the enemy comp but you prob chose correctly)
Failog1 votesTrinity Force and Mallet and death dance should be your core items nearly every match. You will have all the stick and CD you need. Take thunderlords also with the extra 5% cool down. Take ghost and ignite, you will have them ready nearly every fight with the summoner spell reduction mastery. No one will get away from you or lose you in a bush. Forget what the trolls say about Aatrox. None of them really ever mained him. He is a complex champion, but the idiots think he is simple. He is not, he is all about very marginal judgement calls and make decisions in team fights. He is in a fine state. Just do what I do and you will win.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesTrinity Force and Mallet and death dance should be your core items nearly every match. You will have all the stick and CD you need. Take thunderlords also with the extra 5% cool down. Take ghost and ignite, you will have them ready nearly every fight with the summoner spell reduction mastery. No one will get away from you or lose you in a bush. Forget what the trolls say about Aatrox. None of them really ever mained him. He is a complex champion, but the idiots think he is simple. He is not, he is all about very marginal judgement calls and make decisions in team fights. He is in a fine state. Just do what I do and you will win.
Excuse me?
That build has 0 early spikes, meaning there's no way you're ever gonna finish those items before mid-late game since you'll get 0 kills. In order to get your essential stats you'll need to grab a stinger into a vamp scepter, making the build path even worse and making your first item spike take even longer. Triforce isn't a good spike on Aatrox, a bit of extra stats he doesn't really need, 5% attack speed, some random movespeed which is not noticable (especially when compared to Bork active), a more powerful Sheen proc (which is not optimal, Sheen is good for short consistent trades where you'll proc it multiple times, with Aatrox there's E poking and all in-ing (and E-hitting them, but that's only if they engage onto you), you'll get 1 proc at the most, maybe a second if you stagger your ult, which would make you lose a lot of your burst and dps.
Death's Dance is crap compared to Hydra, Aatrox has terrible waveclear with only his E for AoE and then autos. It may be slightly better (slightly being the key word here), but the Cdr is wasted and the healing on physical damage is too. You would probably regen more from Hydra than with from your Q+Deaths Dance (not to mention you'll be healing from splashing minions with Hydra passive while fighting).
Frozen Mallet is mediocre. WIthout itemizing into more offensive stats, you'll never be able to fight bruisers or kill squishies quickly enough. The health is really a buffer, as if the enemy could stand toe to toe, this'll make it so they can actually fight you as they'll have more damage than the defensive stats of this item will migitate. The slow is decent, but really it's only useful if you're so far ahead that even without an extra damage item enemies will be running anyway, and then it falls off once the opponent finish's their damage core build. Also, it's a terrible spike, and with the build you listed you wouldn't have gotten any kills as Aatrox with Triforce Frozen Mallet will lose to any fighter, tank, or bruiser with any sort of sustained damage (building AD counts).
On the other hand, Bork is fairly powerful with the %current health damage against tanks, while being less useful against squishies they'll still have maybe 1k health giving you 60 extra damage when their full (thats a lot). Lifesteal helps with dueling and sustaining through trades/poke when you hit minions. Attack speed synergizes amazingly, and slow + movespeed + damage (which is equal or more than a Sheen proc) is great for chasedown. Rav gives waveclear which is good for any split pushing duelist, and very good effective dueling stats with the lifesteal and flat AD. The active gives a bit more trading, or even faster waveclear (active is more than Sheen proc since it's 100% total AD instead of base AD). Splash damage is good in teamfights as well due to it proccing many times due to your Attack Speed.
Failog1 votesYour response was ridiculous. I always finish my item and I get fed in nearly every match with my build. I have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact that blood price scales off of AD means that my build, especially with spell blade from trinity force, means that if you dive and auto attack a carry, you are going to burst them down in 2-3 auto attacks after you knock them up. In this scenario the bonus damage from BOTRK doesn't have value against a low health carry compared to the 75 AD from Deaths Dance. Furthermore, deaths dance, trinity force, and mallet all afford Aatrox defensive properties, while still giving him great damage and stick and lifesteal and attack speed and cool down reduction.
You really need to slow your roll. Your response sounded like someone who's brain can't handle someone who is contradicting all the conventional wisdom you have been programmed to believe about how to build Aatrox.
Furthermore, I do build BOTRK sometimes, but its never a first item for me and its becomes useful later if their team has a lot of HP
You are also discounting the effect of damage reduction from the Deaths Dance and trinity force, the effect of high cool down, which means more dives and more pokes and more ults, which translates into better escapes and better chases.
I climbed with consistent wins with a good KDA and win rate (for Aatrox) with my builds.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesYour response was ridiculous. I always finish my item and I get fed in nearly every match with my build. I have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact that blood price scales off of AD means that my build, especially with spell blade from trinity force, means that if you dive and auto attack a carry, you are going to burst them down in 2-3 auto attacks after you knock them up. In this scenario the bonus damage from BOTRK doesn't have value against a low health carry compared to the 75 AD from Deaths Dance. Furthermore, deaths dance, trinity force, and mallet all afford Aatrox defensive properties, while still giving him great damage and stick and lifesteal and attack speed and cool down reduction.
You really need to slow your roll. Your response sounded like someone who's brain can't handle someone who is contradicting all the conventional wisdom you have been programmed to believe about how to build Aatrox.
Furthermore, I do build BOTRK sometimes, but its never a first item for me and its becomes useful later if their team has a lot of HP
You are also discounting the effect of damage reduction from the Deaths Dance and trinity force, the effect of high cool down, which means more dives and more pokes and more ults, which translates into better escapes and better chases.
I climbed with consistent wins with a good KDA and win rate (for Aatrox) with my builds.
You're very right about how ridiculous my response was, and for that I apologize.
I gotta ask, which item do you get first?
Failog1 votes...wow um, my mind is blown. Ive never once had anyone apologize on these boards! Are you..is this some kind of elaborate trolling? If not, I build Deaths Dance first. I take thunderlords with the extra cool down. Ive done hundreds of matches with fervor and other keystones an I find this one pays the most earliest
Asayake 5150glow1 votes...wow um, my mind is blown. Ive never once had anyone apologize on these boards! Are you..is this some kind of elaborate trolling? If not, I build Deaths Dance first. I take thunderlords with the extra cool down. Ive done hundreds of matches with fervor and other keystones an I find this one pays the most earliest
Hmm, I've been running Fervor over Thunderlords on my Riven since it seems like it does better in lane 0_o
I guess Fervor is less effective early since you don't rush attack speed (usually I first back a Recurve Bow). Going for heav AD would give a lot more burst than Bork first. How do you deal with people just... running away... once the slow wears off?
Failog1 votesI take ghost. It has a 158 second cool down with masteries. Its always ready. Trinity force gives movement speed and that rage movement. Mallet slows them. T
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI take ghost. It has a 158 second cool down with masteries. Its always ready. Trinity force gives movement speed and that rage movement. Mallet slows them. T
Uh.
Did u finish ur comment?