Why the HELL does Kled have 3010 base health?

Asayake 5150glow··65 votes·19,697 views

Ok, so lvl 18 Kled actually has a base health of 1505. Thing is... so does Skarl.

Considering he has an ability with 180% bonus AD scaling (if he lands the yank) with a 7 second cooldown, a 5% bonus AD scaling on W, also gives you 150% increased attack speed on 4 autos (each of which is essentially 100% AD), of your enemy's max health, a 60% bonus AD scaling which can be used twice on his E, and a 12% AD scaling of their max health on his ult...

Why the hell would anyone play Kled tanky?

Sure he has % HP damage (damage without having to build AD). But with bonus AD scalings to rival Kha'Zix, Rengar, and Talon, building AD on Kled is extremely beneficial. Personally, his W reminds me of old Fiora, with the increased attack speed, and we know how strong she was.

Problem is, 3010 health is just a bit too much for someone building AD and armor pen.

Sure, dealing 1505 damage takes away scale, but a simple Black Cleaver makes that 1805. More importantly, Kled is essentially an assassin. He will kill far, far, before you can deal 1.8 k damage.

Add in his ult for 300% bonus AD shield, +200/300/400, there's simply no way you're gonna take out Kled before he kills someone, and then you've got his entire team to deal with.

Picks are incredibly simple if you see someone is out of position.

So to sum it up: Massive bonus AD scaling on Q, attack speed buff and decent %max health on W, high damage gap closer E, Ult with a huge shield and MASSIVE %HP damage, and to top it all off - a base health of 3000.

160 Comments

Penns36 votes

Only the 4th attack has that AD scaling %hp dmg, the other 3 do normal aa damage. His ad scalings are pretty good but I can imagine him just dying once Skaarl is gone without tanky items.

Jet Sett7 votes

Without resistances you're literally a shell without Skaarl. Not to mention his playstyle is all in or nothing, you could use E and ult to escape but his ult has a very long cooldown and can be very easily interrupted with a tank.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

Without resistances you're literally a shell without Skaarl. Not to mention his playstyle is all in or nothing, you could use E and ult to escape but his ult has a very long cooldown and can be very easily interrupted with a tank.

Yep, if I'm facing kled top he better build tank before I rip his ass a new one. I'm no stranger to insane base stats maining this guy Darius

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Yep, if I'm facing kled top he better build tank before I rip his ass a new one. I'm no stranger to insane base stats maining this guy Darius

Hmm... right, his dash makes hiim go through you making him easily hit by ur Q... But what if he just stood and auto'd you? He'd about go even every time, because of his W, and a Q thrown in their makes it even tougher to beat him. A single auto attack reset is nothing compared to 150% extra attack speed.

And I bet he would've destroyed you late game, with all his % health. That is, if he dodged ur Q.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Hmm... right, his dash makes hiim go through you making him easily hit by ur Q... But what if he just stood and auto'd you? He'd about go even every time, because of his W, and a Q thrown in their makes it even tougher to beat him. A single auto attack reset is nothing compared to 150% extra attack speed.

And I bet he would've destroyed you late game, with all his % health. That is, if he dodged ur Q.

If he stands there and tries to auto attack then Darius uses W and creates space for Q. If kled tries to dash to make up for it then Darius can still apprehend to create space for free Qs again. if kled at any point gets dismounted he's absolutely fucked I've seen his movement speed trying to run away from enemies dismounted.

Looking at the base stats here I fail to see how Kled is all that scary for darius. Kled likes to prolong fights, and so does Darius, but noxian might would be the death of kled before he ever got the hope of another remount.

Of course, I've been doing my best to get a darius v kled out there but either I get my secondary role (mid) or kled gets banned.

Asayake 5150glow

{quoted}

If he stands there and tries to auto attack then Darius uses W and creates space for Q. If kled tries to dash to make up for it then Darius can still apprehend to create space for free Qs again. if kled at any point gets dismounted he's absolutely fucked I've seen his movement speed trying to run away from enemies dismounted.

Looking at the base stats here I fail to see how Kled is all that scary for darius. Kled likes to prolong fights, and so does Darius, but noxian might would be the death of kled before he ever got the hope of another remount.

Of course, I've been doing my best to get a darius v kled out there but either I get my secondary role (mid) or kled gets banned.

I think you failed to see how weak Darius is early game.

Example:

I beat Darius with Riven early lvls when he had all cooldowns.

I lost to Kled wit Riven early lvls when his W was on CD.

So...

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

{quoted}

I think you failed to see how weak Darius is early game.

Example:

I beat Darius with Riven early lvls when he had all cooldowns.

I lost to Kled wit Riven early lvls when his W was on CD.

So...

Unless she gets caught by apprehend, riven is a good counter to darius. I dont know the riven v kled matchup.

What youre trying to get at here is flawed.

X beat Y but X cant beat Z so clearly Z is stronger than Y (even though it wasn't shown). That's faulty in a dynamic setting where X's kit counters Y but not Z's but Z's kit doesn't counter X's kit.

4th3t0s21 votes

He gets severely crippled with 75% of his kit disabled for dropping below 50%; that's one hell of a tradeoff.

Edit: 50%, I forgot only his e and ult are literally disabled, q just changes; mb

Edit 2:. Also keep in mind any bonus HP goes to skarrl, he also loses that when dismounted; so that ~1500 HP? He's stuck with that.

Marshbouy4 votes

"but pointing out the counterplay is heresy"

BakedLotion2 votes

{quoted}

He gets severely crippled with 75% of his kit disabled for dropping below 50%; that's one hell of a tradeoff.

He loses his e and gains a huge ranged nuke... Where the fuck are you getting 75%. If hes dmged enough to get off his mount chances are his ult is already used to engage. All he loses is his e. He gets a movespeed steroid unmounted so movespeed isnt a problem either. Not to mention the fact that he can randomly heal for half his hp for attacking for 3 secs lol... Hes op asfuck

lolipopevelynn2 votes

{quoted}

He loses his e and gains a huge ranged nuke... Where the fuck are you getting 75%. If hes dmged enough to get off his mount chances are his ult is already used to engage. All he loses is his e. He gets a movespeed steroid unmounted so movespeed isnt a problem either. Not to mention the fact that he can randomly heal for half his hp for attacking for 3 secs lol... Hes op asfuck

its not a nuke, its literally a graves AA lol. his auto attack damage is also decreased by 20%. demounted he is honestly handicapped.

BakedLotion2 votes

{quoted}

its not a nuke, its literally a graves AA lol. his auto attack damage is also decreased by 20%. demounted he is honestly handicapped.

Physical Damage: 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+ 80% bonus AD) 」 Sure is a graves auto! Maximum Damage: 54 / 81 / 108 / 135 / 162 (+ 144% bonus AD) 」 Maybe if graves goes full AD and crits, then yeah it's a graves auto.

And it also gives him a dash.

He's handicapped, but some idiot said he's 75% crippled. Which isn't true at all. He has way too much power in his kit. He's only like 30% weaker unmounted lol... Which isn't even punishing enough considering how fucking overpowered he is mounted.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Physical Damage: 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+ 80% bonus AD) 」 Sure is a graves auto! Maximum Damage: 54 / 81 / 108 / 135 / 162 (+ 144% bonus AD) 」 Maybe if graves goes full AD and crits, then yeah it's a graves auto.

And it also gives him a dash.

He's handicapped, but some idiot said he's 75% crippled. Which isn't true at all. He has way too much power in his kit. He's only like 30% weaker unmounted lol... Which isn't even punishing enough considering how fucking overpowered he is mounted.

why would you not build graves full AD and crit lol? they nerfed him specifically to a point where he cant go tank and is forced to build as a normal adc to be useful, this means a full AD crit build.

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

why would you not build graves full AD and crit lol? they nerfed him specifically to a point where he cant go tank and is forced to build as a normal adc to be useful, this means a full AD crit build.

Lol... if youre not going ad armor pen as graves youre dumb. The only crit item he builds is phantom dancer

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Lol... if youre not going ad armor pen as graves youre dumb. The only crit item he builds is phantom dancer

you REALLY need to stop following mobafire or champion.gg to copy paste builds... crit graves is actually stupidly strong.

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

you REALLY need to stop following mobafire or champion.gg to copy paste builds... crit graves is actually stupidly strong.

There's a reason why AD armor pen is popular. Because it's better than other builds. That's like saying "stop following champion.gg. crit zed is stupidly strong!" I didn't get to where I am following mobafire. AD Armor pen graves is just simply better than crit even if it's "stupidly strong"

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

There's a reason why AD armor pen is popular. Because it's better than other builds. That's like saying "stop following champion.gg. crit zed is stupidly strong!" I didn't get to where I am following mobafire. AD Armor pen graves is just simply better than crit even if it's "stupidly strong"

just because something is popular doesnt mean its better. dont be stupid. thresh has a 25% popularity rate but sona is blatantly better than him yet she has only 13 % popularity.

BakedLotion2 votes

{quoted}

just because something is popular doesnt mean its better. dont be stupid. thresh has a 25% popularity rate but sona is blatantly better than him yet she has only 13 % popularity.

That's completely different lol... Are you just spitting out bullshit and hoping you win an argument? Champion picking is almost completely based on playstyle. Builds are way less subjective than champion picking.

Then again, looking at your match history shows that you have no idea what you're building on most champions so it explains why you would think crit graves is good.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

why would you not build graves full AD and crit lol? they nerfed him specifically to a point where he cant go tank and is forced to build as a normal adc to be useful, this means a full AD crit build.

Nah, he builds as an Assassin usually. Youmuu's, Duskblade, etc

PermabannedGaren20 votes

item 3071 item 3812 item 3047 item 3142 item 3156 item 3026

So I used this build in a custom game to see if Kled could solo Baron (he could).

I had over 3,000 health, resistances of 180ish, while also having a big burst heal in the form of his passive. Oh, and I had about 400 AD, and about 2.3 attack speed when W and youmuu's were up.

So uh, how is this okay? I honestly am not sure how this guy is supposed to be balanced. Maybe I will turn out being wrong, but his numbers seem insanely stupid considering how quickly you get Skarl back by beating up champions.

Junkο6 votes

You can easily solo Baron with full AD Soraka if you feast on bots enough.

PermabannedGaren17 votes

{quoted}

You can easily solo Baron with full AD Soraka if you feast on bots enough.

Kled soloing Baron is the most irrelevant part of my post. I don't know why you thought it was the part that I wanted people to respond to. Kled soloing Baron is whatever, plenty of champions can do that and I figured he'd probably be able to.

The problem is that late game I had about 400 AD, over 3,000 health, and really high resistances, with a mechanic in my kit to give me a big boy burst heal, and also a huge attack speed steroid that nearly brought me to the cap when using my one AS item. While also having a huge amount of utility, good mobility, great stickiness, and 40% CDR.

What does Kled trade for this?

Junkο8 votes

What does Kled trade for this?

2 entire abilities when he is not mounted along with being REALLY slow even with mobility boots, and fairly squishy. If your passive is on cooldown or there are no HUGE minion waves nearby, you are legit forced to back because there is nothing you can do.

PermabannedGaren16 votes

{quoted}

2 entire abilities when he is not mounted

This might matter if he didn't build up his passive extremely quickly.

along with being REALLY slow even with mobility boots,

On Skarl? Not even, he's fairly average for a melee champ.

On foot? Not when going after enemy champions.

and fairly squishy.

His base armour is very good actually, and like I said, building nearly full damage nets him over three thousand health and about 180 resistances. Bruiser Yi was not that tanky.

If your passive is on cooldown

Thank God it has a cooldown, imagine if Kled effectively had more than the 4,000+ health he effectively has if he activates it once.

or there are no HUGE minion waves nearby, you are legit forced to back because there is nothing you can do.

"I have to back when I'm low" is not a weakness.

Arakadia4 votes

Without Skaarl he has no disengage, hes a sitting duck. With Skaarl he still lacks disengage but never the less he's got 285 (I think) movement speed if he has to run away when low.

ZapMyHeart5 votes

{quoted}

Without Skaarl he has no disengage, hes a sitting duck. With Skaarl he still lacks disengage but never the less he's got 285 (I think) movement speed if he has to run away when low.

Actually, he does have a disengage without Skaarl. His (unmounted) Q knocks him back, similar to Cait's E. So no, he's not a sitting duck.

Arakadia9 votes

Thats very little disengage.

ZapMyHeart5 votes

{quoted}

Thats very little disengage.

Actually, that is enough to run away like a little coward. Try him and see.

Arakadia5 votes

Its a minor dash. Thats his only escape and he has 135ish less movement speed depending on if they have boots and what kind.

Ireliavence3 votes

did u know that Kleds movement spreed is nearly halved when skarrl is gone?

like goes from 300+ to 200+, the self knock back is nice, but your basically summoner 3ed for the entire time.

ZapMyHeart1 votes

{quoted}

did u know that Kleds movement spreed is nearly halved when skarrl is gone?

like goes from 300+ to 200+, the self knock back is nice, but your basically summoner 3ed for the entire time.

So you move slower. It's not a big deal with the Q. Unless the enemies somehow have T2 boots and you are extremely far away from the tower, they aren't going to catch you with that escape move. As mentioned above, the unmounted Q has a CD of 3s.

Arakadia4 votes

Q is a small dash. That movment reduction is much bigger.

Jhin UItd JFK6 votes

{quoted}

Kled soloing Baron is the most irrelevant part of my post. I don't know why you thought it was the part that I wanted people to respond to. Kled soloing Baron is whatever, plenty of champions can do that and I figured he'd probably be able to.

Why would you mention it then xd

Aatrox Mid 1v51 votes

at 20 mins in you are extremely unlikely to have full build (Im assuming thats when you did baron) Realistically you would most likely finish 2 items and be working on the third one. Baron has 10,000 health and 400 AD at 20 mins. a Black Clever a Youmuss and parts of Deaths dance wont be enough to kill her. especially since she continues to lower your armor and MR as you fight. Even with that full build you will have to use your GA which realistically wont even be worth popping to solo baron

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=free software,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHYcjGV3,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2016-08-10T21:16:34.681+0000)

at 20 mins in you are extremely unlikely to have full build (Im assuming thats when you did baron) Realistically you would most likely finish 2 items and be working on the third one. Baron has 10,000 health and 400 AD at 20 mins. a Black Clever a Youmuss and parts of Deaths dance wont be enough to kill her. especially since she continues to lower your armor and MR as you fight. Even with that full build you will have to use your GA which realistically wont even be worth popping to solo baron

No, I did Baron about 30+ minutes in. It takes about that long to farm to full build with only a single enemy champion (Darius bot) to get fed off of.

And no, I didn't have to pop my GA. I just had to get Skarl back after he ran away.

He didn't solo Baron as effectively as, say, Xin Zhao, Master Yi, or Tryndamere, but he can do it.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

You can't GET Skarl back by fighting monsters, only by last hitting minions or attacking enemy champs.

PermabannedGaren8 votes

{quoted}

You can't GET Skarl back by fighting monsters, only by last hitting minions or attacking enemy champs.

" 4 / 20 Courage is gained by killing enemy units and 5 / 15 for attacking structures, champions and epic monsters."

Wrong.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

" 4 / 20 Courage is gained by killing enemy units and 5 / 15 for attacking structures, champions and epic monsters."

Wrong.

Epic monsters are baron and dragon, columbo...

PermabannedGaren4 votes

{quoted}

Epic monsters are baron and dragon, columbo...

You might want to read the whole thread, because if you did you might realize my post was in reference to Kled's passive allowing me to solo Baron.

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

thats a custom game...and there are champions that solo baron at full power....

PermabannedGaren4 votes

{quoted}

thats a custom game...and there are champions that solo baron at full power....

Learn to read.

Roit Gums11 votes

Did you watch nightblue stream? , he played crit kled and did a 1625 crit and also deleted a full build khazix

hadre10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Roit Gums,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHYcjGV3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-10T19:37:08.966+0000)

Did you watch nightblue stream? , he played crit kled and did a 1625 crit and also deleted a full build khazix

yeah but doing that you remove like 70% of this champions potential. like literally if you get a 2 kill lead on a melee champ and start tanking up you can almost never die. Skarl coming back for the huge health buff is like an instant mundo ult

RocketRelm4 votes

Why're you implying that 1 shotting a full glass character 'as' a full glass character is any hard feat? You're playing rocket tag at that point.

Junkο3 votes

You mean a 3 season in a row Challenger player stomped probably silvers and golds in PBE. Holy shit HOW.

Champion Skin6 votes

Actually having that much HP/base HP makes resistances really good (as they basically work as health multiplier)

Spoofghoul5 votes

Yea where is Sion 3010 basehealth & 98 base armor

Arakadia12 votes

Sion has infinitly stacking health unlike Kled.

Sion is a very differed champion with unique qualities. He's stronger early game and has much more CC.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Yea infinitely stacking health

games totally last 5 hours these days

kled gets a whopping 1236 more base health how long do you think sion will have to farm for that, and thats not even factoring in his piss poor armor stat

Arakadia1 votes

There completely different champions with different roles. Saying "Why can't Sion have 3010 base health" is like saying "Why can't Karma have a stun, I mean Braum has a stun and he's even tankier!".

Sion and Kled have different roles and strengths. I don't see Kled with massive AoE stuns/knockups and armor shreds and slows or really any AoE damage except his conditional Pocket Pistol.

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