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[CCOS] (CCC) January Official Results!!!

Sir ArmaMalum··16 votes·4,218 views

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA4LzA1L2NkL2ZhaXJseW9kZHBhLmM2MTVjLmdpZgpwCXRodW1iCTg1MHg4NTA-CmUJanBn/7eb1de3f/5d7/fairly-odd-parents.jpg

The numbers have been tallied, the imaginary confetti clipped and the completely mis-themed gif loaded. What does this all mean?

#The results are in everyone!

But, before I get to that I want to give a very special thanks to this month’s judges!

  • Destinum
  • Aquaman711
  • Dyslexai
  • BigBenClockTower

Seriously folks, judging a concept is no quick matter and each one of these guys scored twenty seven of them in 2 weeks. Or more realistically 2 weekends. That’s no small feat! This event is only possible because of awesome people like this, so be sure to thank them for their time and enthusiasm!

An additional shout-out as well to Aquaman711 for getting a bit of feedback to every concept. Keep in mind he did not have to do that, he just did it anyway!

So without further ado, drumroll please!

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/129/3/a/Drum_roll__please_by_lanilioness.gif

…..close enough

#This month we actually have a TIE

The winners (plural) of the January CCOS are

Hajali (& Qareen), The Fire below the Sands by Raptamei

AND

Lucy, The Weeping Ripper by Nuclear Corvid

Both with an equal total score of 333/400 (83.25%)!

So what’s a guy to do here? Sily question really, that's an easy one! You’ll BOTH be getting a personalized gif to tack onto your concepts soon (by the end of the weekend) so be on the lookout. Congratulations!

#Runner-ups

|Place|-----------------------------Concept----------------------------------|------------Author-------------|---------Score-------- |- |2 | Amanzi, The Ocean's Charge | Tucsters | 321/400 (80.25%)| |3 |Kae, The Tempest | Auryiel | 305/400 (76.25%) | |4 | Teleia, The Shattered Princess | PrismQueenBrandi | 279/400 (69.75%) |

######Edit: I had originally placed AngelonBeer as 4th place, but this was an unfortunate mistake on my part due to the dynamic formatting not incorporating the last 4 rows. This has been (and will be in the future) corrected, but is still a goof on my end. Consider this also a public apology to AngelonBeer as well as PrismQueenBrandi. Thank you to Fateborn for pointing this discrepancy out.

#Prizes for all!

As for everyone else, don’t worry you get things too! Like feedback! Find and check out your entry here.

Quick instructions:

  1. Find your entry (and entry number) in the ‘quick look’ tab (tabs are on bottom). Quick look will give you category totals and total score.
  2. Go to the ‘judging’ tab and find your respective entry number. Careful, it’ll jump around a bit because of the weird spacing. If it’s a problem use your browser options to zoom out.
  3. Your judge feedback will be to the right!

Everyone will also be recorded in the CCOS Official Archive for posteriety, whether you were at the top or not!

#Next month! (The need for judges is strong!)

No rest for the wicked! I’m already getting set for next month, February's CCOS will begin this monday! and that means I need judges! Badly! So if you’re interested e-mail me at ‘[email protected]’ with your IGN (in-game username) and I’ll be happy to fill you in further. I’ll be taking judges up until the 18th, but that’ll come faster than you think so be quick about it!

Also, if you haven’t noticed already, I am transitioning the name of this contest from CCC to CCOS to stand for Ccommunity Concept Open Stage and move away from the very understandable confusion between the CCC and MCCC.

The February MCCC is happening! If you do not know what that is, it is a similar event run by cycling hosts each month. Check out the main post here!

55 Comments

BigBenClockTower3 votes

Hello everyone! I'm one of the judges (as you can see), BigBenClockTower.

I was without access to a computer for a good chunk of time during the judging period, so I couldn't give all the feedback I wanted to give. That being said, those who want to get some feedback from me on why I scored certain things as I did, please ask. I'll be monitoring this thread all weekend.

Cheers!

-BigBenClockTower

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

Hello everyone! I'm one of the judges (as you can see), BigBenClockTower.

Thanks for the effort! :D

LilStacey871 votes

Whats up BBC (Lel), just wondering if you could break down the strengths and weaknesses you seen in my concept. Thank you! Ian, The Lorn Soldier

BigBenClockTower2 votes

Sure! I'll cover my scores in order.

Starting with the Lore, I liked it for what it was. Clean and simple. However, it's very underwhelming when compared to what it could've been. It had a lot of promise I think, involving several references to existing Champions and lore pieces. I wanted it to be longer, since I really liked the concept, and that was why I had to score lower than I wanted here. My suggestions for future concepts are to really think about the character, and expand on who they are, and why they do what they do.

For the Kit, I liked most of it, and though it was pretty cool but I had to dock some points for the "generic"-ness of it. There wasn't anything that particularly stood out to me. The art of using Gold was an interesting twist, but that can cause a lot of headaches in balancing, since Gold figures in-game are arbitrary, and it removes levers to balance the abilities. Also, that Mercenary's Reward has its duration scale by Energy available, it does have similar problems to Champions like Swain, where your Runes directly affect how good the ability is, rather than good skill or timing, and so I had to dock points for that.

I like the Kit though, and feel it has great promise! Just compare your kits to similar Champions, and see what they do right or wrong. Balancing against existing numbers and established effects increases ability quality.

The Originality, I liked it a lot. I felt the kit was great, and the "Gold" angle was unique here. However, the similarity of his abilities in comparison to many other Champions meant I had to dock some points on Originality (don't get me wrong though, Riot is just as guilty of this sort of thing! :P ). I feel that an emphasis on the fun ways to earn and spend Gold loosely (like a Mercenary might) would've created some great gameplay, instead of a more direct (I felt) rehashing of existing abilities.

Overall, great Effort put into this. I wanted to score you higher, but the Lore and the lack of elaboration on the Core Items (as well as the other official categories of Recommended Items) hurt the score. I loved the work on his quotes though. Always good to explore the character through multiple avenues.

Bonus! You did the Resolutions! At least, I wanted to say that. The bonus challenge was New Year's Resolutions, and I couldn't find them in your entry. Which was a shame, it's another great way to flesh out that character and have some fun. So I gave you a single point there anyways, as I only dish out zeroes to REALLY bad things, and this ultimate was just a for fun bonus thing here.

Overall, great work! I feel that it was a great entry, and I can't wait to see how high you take your bar next competition. Always improvements we can make, all of us (even I). I hope to see you (or perhaps compete against you) next contest!

Cheers!

-BigBenClockTower

LilStacey871 votes

Thank you for the extra review. I know the KIT seemed a little Generic and the Lore was pretty short. I honestly had many Idea's for the Kit but the arrived after the due date (which is why it's good to come up with your character 1st). I think out of all the skills, I put the most thought into the Passive and ULT. As far as Lore goes, I was trying to keep it short and sweet, leaving a little mystery behind the Champ because I know as judges you guys have to read a lot of Lore. Also, I'm not a very great writer.

Thank you for the honest and positive feedback and I appreciate the scores given! -Hero

Dyslexai3 votes

Hey all! I was one of your judges as well, and I'd be happy to discuss any questions or concerns that anyone has regarding my scoring or feedback. I don't bite!

And I just want to say... Great job everyone! It was a pleasure to see all the hard work you guys put in for this contest, and I hope my feedback at least gives you all some more avenues to explore when designing champions in the future.

JuhnZeiFox1 votes

I feel you didn't understand my Wise's lore? to be fair it was short and kind of just thrown together. I feel that you also didnt take enough time to chack all his stats like the part that says he is melee. so one I would like to clear up is that what I gave for prank is not a BF sword but more of a singed poison trail only weaker and its not 20% it's 10%. now the ult a mana per sec which I based off of karthus's defile mana per sec. and the healing is more like a garen with a warmogs health regain. now that last this is really my bad cause I thought it would be easy to see that he is a support/assassin. now the passive I just wanted to clear up why I did it that way was because he is melee, and doesnt have much health, but also because he has no range damage spell so he would be forced to do all his damage from melee so I gave him an always active lich's bane. seems cheep but thats just because I wanted him more for support so what little ap he would have from supporting he would not be enough for him to do a lot of damage.

Dyslexai1 votes

{quoted}

I feel you didn't understand my Wise's lore? to be fair it was short and kind of just thrown together. I feel that you also didnt take enough time to chack all his stats like the part that says he is melee. so one I would like to clear up is that what I gave for prank is not a BF sword but more of a singed poison trail only weaker and its not 20% it's 10%. now the ult a mana per sec which I based off of karthus's defile mana per sec. and the healing is more like a garen with a warmogs health regain. now that last this is really my bad cause I thought it would be easy to see that he is a support/assassin. now the passive I just wanted to clear up why I did it that way was because he is melee, and doesnt have much health, but also because he has no range damage spell so he would be forced to do all his damage from melee so I gave him an always active lich's bane. seems cheep but thats just because I wanted him more for support so what little ap he would have from supporting he would not be enough for him to do a lot of damage.

You're right. I didn't check Wise's base stats. To me, a stat block is borderline meaningless in a conceptual setting such as the Player Concepts board. If the kit is mechanically sound, the champion's base stats are extremely malleable, and I'll never be convinced that a champion can be perfectly balanced without playtesting. The one big exception to this rule I like to address is if you give a champion some means of gaining a large amount of raw stats, it's good to indicate with your stat block why this makes sense, and point it out to people.

That said, it was my bad for missing that the character was melee. From reading your lore, the only defining characteristics that you gave him had to do with wanting to learn from a jester who killed a dude by throwing knives at him. As a side note, it's always a good idea to note somewhere on your sheet what role(s) you had intended for the character. From my reading, mage/adc was the impression I was left with. I was in the wrong about the character's role, but that doesn't change the fact that there are some big flaws in his kit.

The biggest problem is the passive. Ability power is a much cheaper stat than attack damage, so you can buy flat ability power items and end up with more attack power and ability power than if you'd spent it all on AD. The bigger problem arises when you add in the fact that simply by being next to his team, he can gain 20% additional AP, which then feeds back into his damage. On top of that, he can use his now increased AP to give his teammates a damage buff through Prank which is equal to 10% of his total ability power. It's not uncommon for an AP champion to have over 600 AP by the end of the game, and with the %AP boost from his passive, it's easily giving his team the same effective stats as a BF sword or better. Something needs to change there.

JuhnZeiFox1 votes

but yeah thanks for the imput on stating that he is a support/assassin I will remember to do that the next champ I create. ty for all the time you have taken to discuss this with me.ohh and really the lore I was told to add more before I could submit him so I really didnt put alot into thinking about his full blown backstory. cause to me lore is just a something for getting to love or want a champ. but really thank you for your time and I hope we can do this again. you made me think really hard about my champ in all points of the game as well as what item combinations some one might take.( super taxing) but I enjoyed it. so again thank you. sorry if I've come off as mean I'm a numbers sort of person so I do this sort of thing alot.

LilStacey871 votes

Hello Dyslexai, Hero here. Just wondering if you had time to break down you scores on my champ. Thanks in advance. Ian, The Lorn Soldier

Dyslexai1 votes

{quoted}

Hello Dyslexai, Hero here. Just wondering if you had time to break down you scores on my champ. Thanks in advance. Ian, The Lorn Soldier

Hey Hero! I'd be glad to give you a more specific breakdown of your scores. Keep in mind, this is just my opinion, and my intention is to help you come up with ideas to refine your concept. Same thing goes for everyone else here.

Lore – 8/25 Basically... the lore needs a rewrite. The “blank slate mercenary” trope has a lot of characterization potential, and I gave you a few suggestions for that in my initial feedback that's attached to your scoresheet. I docked a lot of points because of the lack of personality, of... flair. A truly good lore draws in the reader and makes them interested in the character before even seeing their kit.

One thing I've heard a lot is to design the character first, then work on building a kit for that character and not the other way around. It may or may not work for you, but I'd encourage you to explore it regardless! There's nothing to be lost but a bit of time, and I'm sure it would at least be an interesting experiment. And as a rule of thumb for length, your lore should be as long as it needs to be in order to effectively show who your character is with a minimum of a paragraph or two, and no real maximum length. That said, your lore is on the short side, and that cost you some points as well.

Kit – 18/25 Most of the problems I have with this kit stem from his passive. I have the same issue with it that I have with Draven's passive.. Things like this only serve to punish opponents harder for missteps, and this passive removes one of the major qualifiers that makes Draven's passive a more theoretically balanced skill. Ian's Will can trigger off of assists as well as kills, and has no period of vulnerability where your entire bonus for killing someone can be lost. The way I see it, if Ian goes top and gets assist gold from an early jungle gank, the lane is already over. That, to me, is bad design. On the flip side, this kind of mechanic is very well suited to the character, and I actually do like the way it's implemented on his other abilities. I just have a very bad feeling about abuse cases with it.

You also lost some points over the numbers on Q. Its base damage is extremely high when compared to every other hero in the game, and the fact that he's energy based just makes the problem worse. He has no meaningful “gate” other than cooldowns, but that just means that every time he gets stacks, he's going to unload them on you and win every trade with his shield.

Originality – 14/20 Most of the points you lost here were because I left with a general “just another random mercenary type” feeling, and that could've been avoided by giving him more personality in the lore. And his Q just feels very similar to Broken Wings, which... I'm not really a fan of. The only difference is that the slashes are on a charge system and not all three during one cast.

Effort – 20/20 You put a LOT of effort into this concept, and it shows. All the quotes and bonus tidbits were great! The post is formatted in a snappy and eye-catching way, ability descriptions are clean and easily understandable, a suggested build path, and a breakdown of some of Ian's pros and cons. Most concepts don't have sections like those. It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between someone who's put a lot of time into perfecting something and someone who just posts a first draft and adds to it. Full marks here.

Bonus – 0/10 This was where you would've gotten points for the New Year's resolution part of the contest. But unfortunately, you didn't have any so I couldn't give you any marks for them.

LilStacey871 votes

Thank you for the extra review. I know the KIT seemed a little Generic and the Lore was pretty short. I honestly had many Idea's for the Kit but the arrived after the due date (which is why it's good to come up with your character 1st). I think out of all the skills, I put the most thought into the Passive and ULT. As far as Lore goes, I was trying to keep it short and sweet, leaving a little mystery behind the Champ because I know as judges you guys have to read a lot of Lore. Also, I'm not a very great writer.

Thank you for the honest and positive feedback and I appreciate the scores given. -Hero

Destínum3 votes

Hi all, Destínum here! As some of you might have noticed, I was mostly a bit, erm, harsher, with my scores than the other judges to say the least.

That being said, in my opinion that only leaves more room for improvement! Even though I've been having some major internet issues during the entire judging period (and still do), I'll do my best to stick around for the next couple of Days. If you want to know anything about why I gave your concept the points it got, or just want my general opinion and feedback on it, don't be afraid to ask! I'm all ears and open for discussion!

Auryiel1 votes

If you don't mind, I'd like to know what you didn't like about this champion's kit, specifically. The rest is fine lol

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/05taUTv2-kae-the-tempest

Destínum1 votes

Kae has some cool thematics and some interesting mechanics, but my main problem was that he was a very "jack of all traits" champion and had a severe lack of focus with the kit. With lots of champions in the game already, it's important that all of them have a specific niché that makes them unique, and I couldn't find one of these on Kae.

JuhnZeiFox1 votes

YO could hear your thoughts on Wise the traveling wit. (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/fdvzgwHN-wise-the-traveling-wit)

Destínum1 votes

Alright, I'll start with my thoughts on the lore:

I don't feel like the lore doesn't really do what it's meant to do. My biggest issue with it (and to lesser extent, Wise as a character) is that he doesn't really seem to have any goals. Sure, he want to find Shaco, but then what? Would he just want to learn from him? Because that would probably end up with Wise getting stabbed. Also, how did his jokes and tricks turn into magic all of a sudden? If I only red the lore, I could never have guessed this was about a fighter. A nitpick I have with it is also that you haven't really done your research, because Zaun doesn't have anything even close to nobles. That's just not how their culture works.

As for the kit, you have some good ideas, but it has a severe lack of counterplay. Jest is really the only ability I don't have a problem with on it's own, but even that, as a short range AoE cc, feels out of place on a squishy champion without any kind of mobility.

His passive is just extra stats, which can be acceptable if it fits the champion, but for a support to get free AD from AP and AP from having nearby allies, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Prank as a concept is pretty cool, but the RNG part of it is really what kills it for me. I personally think (like both Riot and most other players) that RNG have no place what so ever in a competitive game, which League very much is.

Jest is meant to be a "choice" type of ability, which is all good, but the effect on allies is so underwhelming, I can barely think of any scenario where you would use it on an ally over an enemy. At the same time, the effect on enemies would do absolutely nothing against an AP, while at max rank, it would completely destroy any AD. Don't get me wrong, abilities can be more effective against some enemies than others, but the gap in this case is just a bit too big.

Finally, Exit Stage is so powerful, you'd almost just want to stay permastealthed in every fight while your allies win for you. It is just a ton of (literally) invisible power. At the same time, the enemies might not even get a chance to know you're there, and just wonder why your team is for some reason taking so little damage.

So yeah, I'd suggest you start thinking about a specific niche that you want Wise to fill (that no other existing champion already fills) and then work on the abilities from there. Think about how you're supposed to play with, as and against Wise and think about if you personally would enjoy all three scenarios.

LilStacey871 votes

Hi Destinum, this was my first time entering the Champion Concept tourney so I was wondering could you give me some insight on why you scored me how you did. Thanks in advance. Ian, The Lorn Soldier

Destínum2 votes

Hello Hero! I hope you enjoyed being in the contest, and that you got lots of inspiration from all the other concepts. :)

About Ian, the first thing I want to mention is that his lore really need to be fleshed out more, because currently it's not telling us a lot about what kind of character he is (except for the stereotypical "mysterious badass"). Also, a nitpick: Sion's final living assault wasn't on Jarvan IV, it was on Jarvan I (who Sion did manage to kill btw) and happened hundreds of years ago. Unless Ian is immortal, I doubt he was around back then. :P

When it comes to the kit, I liked the concept of the passive, but I still don't really understand how it's meant to work. Does he only store the bonus for a duration? Will he keep the biggest award he's gotten permanently? Could you enlighten me on this?

The rest of the kit is fairly solid and I can very well see it work in-game. However, it just feels too much like a "standard fighter" kit, in that I'm not really finding anything about it that stands out compared to other fighters. Also, his ult feels a bit too much like Vi's ult, except probably worse.

So yeah, my best advice is probably the same as for most people: Do your research on other fighters. What about Ian as a character stands out compared to them? How can you expand upon that? Always ask yourself this: Why would my team want an Ian over X champion?

LilStacey871 votes

Thanks for the insight on the mistakes I made. I didn't know Sion dropped Jarvan the 1st... Interesting. His passive works like this though: Say you get a killing blow on a champ and you gain 300gold. Well 40% of that number (120) is stored and used as bonus damage and shield. However, with the feedback from judges this is very overpowered and should have been ether only for the ULT, or re-balanced. I have an idea on how it could work but it's a little too late for edits;

The new Passive (which I just thought of) would've stated that a certain percentage of gold bonus is stored for normal ability and maybe the 40 (or even 50)% is only for the Ult. Then, all of the bonuses is lost after the ULT is cast. My goal was to make a champ, not to snowball, but able to recover teams that have feed an enemy by focusing the high priority target.

So in my head, if your enemy Vayne is 6|0|0 and you shut her down somehow, it's would be a little easier to win the team fight at that moment because your rewarded for killing their feed champion, rather than shutting Vayne down but still loosing the team fight because your health was low and you moves weren't strong enough for you to survive. But it wasn't carefully thought out.

Destínum1 votes

You still didn't really answer my question. Does the bonus have a duration, or is it permanent? If you kill two champions, will the bonuses get added to each others, or will you only get the bonus from the most valuable one?

LilStacey871 votes

Oh, sorry about that bro... I thought I stated it in the champions kit, but no, the bonuses don't stack and you only benefit from the highest one. Apologies.

Destínum1 votes

Alright, so if I've understood it correctly, you get the highest bonus and it lasts permanently? In that case, it becomes kind of pointless lategame, since if you get one shutdown, it's completely maxed out. I guess this could be fine, but there could be other ways to do this better I feel. Maybe make it have a duration? That way, you're really encouraged to keep trying to get kills and not just farm, which is very fitting thematically I feel. It might lead to some "feast or famine" scenarios, but I don't think it'd be too bad.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there though. :)

LilStacey871 votes

It's actually a good idea. A duration seems fair because honestly, I wanted this guy to be more of a Fighter class Champ that can survive team fights and possibly pick up one or two kills for the team (more if they are all squishy) but not some Penta machine hyper carry.

Maybe what I was trying to accomplish would be somewhere between Jax and Darius.

The Red Goat2 votes

Do any of the judges have any concepts of their own I could look at? I would love to return the favor of their judgements as each of their comments are really helpful. I particular I like Dyslexai's idea of a percentage cost to the Q and the number crunching Aquaman 711 did was very eye opening. I do have a bit of a discrepency with my score from Destinum in that I'd like to ask him why he gave me the scores he did, especially about effort put into the concept.

On another note and specifically for Dyslexai, the passive was called mana shell because of the character's name. I found that Cavum translates to hollow in Latin and meant it as a reference to him being "a hollow version of his old self". I do know the lore doesn't represent this well but I also already have a fix in I could add a description of him seeming to survive through large amount of excess mana (being equivalent to pure willpower) keeping him going. This should also clear up the lack of a link to having mana as his main stat to build as I originally intended.

As a final note I am really glad that somebody else got the "Lambchop" joke I put in. :D

Destínum1 votes

Hello The Red Goat! The reason why your effort score was so low is not because I don't think you put effort into creating the concept (believe me, I know how much work it can be to create a champion concept). However, the "effort" category was for all the things that aren't already covered by the other categories, so I didn't take things like kit, lore etc. into consideration. When it then came down to it, the only thing that was really left to judge in that category was base stats, and that's not exactly the most important thing for a concept anyways, thus the low score.

I don't have time to cover my reason for all the other categories atm, but I'll be back a bit later.

The Red Goat1 votes

{quoted}

Hello The Red Goat! The reason why your effort score was so low is not because I don't think you put effort into creating the concept (believe me, I know how much work it can be to create a champion concept). However, the "effort" category was for all the things that aren't already covered by the other categories, so I didn't take things like kit, lore etc. into consideration. When it then came down to it, the only thing that was really left to judge in that category was base stats, and that's not exactly the most important thing for a concept anyways, thus the low score.

I don't have time to cover my reason for all the other categories atm, but I'll be back a bit later.

Ah, that was really the only thing I was curious about and when you put it like that I will admit I did not have anything beyond the most basic requirements of lore, kit, and base stats. Thanks you though as in the future I will know to work on more than just those things to get a better score!

Nuclear Corvid2 votes

This feels super rude, seeing as I somehow won this contest, but I'd also feel wrong not responding to criticism that's worth responding to.

@Destinum One: She doesn't scale with nothing. She scales with duration (i.e., durability). I know most people think of scaling with something to mean that they have ratios, but this is actually a tank's kit in the purest form - it doesn't gain anything from building damage, only from surviving longer. It's...kinda abstract, honestly, but that was the intent. Two: Stalking only puts the footsteps effect to use when the Stalked target is visible by Stalking. If they're sitting in lane and the enemy laner can see them, they won't hear footsteps. Same goes for if they pass near a ward - the footsteps would stop until they're out of range of the ward or Lucy.

@Aquaman 711 I don't see how the damage from Rip Apart changes throughout the game. If anything, it should be a bit meh during early game (when AD values are higher than the damage it will do) and better during late game (since AD values don't scale as quickly as health numbers). And yeah, it gets very overbearing if you let Lucy stick to a target - that's the idea. Dunno if that's balanced, but that's the idea. Lucy would use mana, I just didn't see the point of putting down costs, especially since I didn't drop a full stat block on her, so it would be hard to say without actual testing how much it would affect her. Also, 3-5 seconds isn't long enough? That seems pretty long to me. They could just recall to base if they know they're being Stalked, but that won't remove the Stalking debuff, and honestly, if you make the enemy recall simply because you're somewhere within 3500 units of them, isn't that a pretty strong win, especially since you'd know they recalled? Finally, think of her ult this way - she isolates one champion (the stalked target, probably a squishy) and creates a zone for two seconds where enemy melees cannot enter. She essentially forces isolation on a target and scatters the rest of the team. That just seemed...really good to me.

@Dyslexai 3500 range is probably not as long as you'd think - the template for those numbers is Warwick's Blood Scent, which maxes at 4700. Also, for clarification, wards (or any sort of vision, for that matter) won't kill the speed boost, just the ability to walk through walls. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

@BigBenClockTower I responded to your more in-depth critiques in the Lucy thread.

Also, just for kicks, the name "Lucy" is actually a reference to Lucy Westenra from Dracula. LITERATURE!

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

There is no reason not to continue conversations on critiquing even if you topped out, Corvid. In fact, you scored well because people liked your concept, so (imho) it means even more to make your concept the best you can! So have at! ^_^

Destínum1 votes

Do you mean that the footsteps will only be heard if the stalked target is visible through no other means than Stalk? Even if this is what you mean, it still helps the enemy out, in that they know if Lucy is still fairy far away or very nearby, giving them a warning. It's still really cool thematically, but I'm not so sure if it's actually good gameplay-wise.

As for the scaling, the reason why I say she doesn't really scale with durability either is not because her pure numbers are not increased by it. It's because of how champions actually scale with durability. The reason why tanks like Leona scale so well with it is that surviving longer, means she get to use more rotations of her abilities, thus giving her a presence. In Lucy's case, what does she actually get to do by surviving longer? She gets to stack up her passive and pull people to her (who are already fairly close). Is this enough to give her a presence as a tank? Since the threat she gives is primarily the damage from her passive, and there are others with a way higher damage output than her, I'd say it isn't.

Nuclear Corvid1 votes

Yes, the footsteps only occur if you have vision through no other means but Stalking's effect. I'm not sure it would have as much effect as you think; it's never gimped Warwick, and his warning is MUCH louder and more noticeable than what I imagine for Lucy.

I think the criticism you're going for is actually "She doesn't scale well with anything." rather than "She doesn't scale." (Everyone scales with durability, just not necessarily well.) Honestly, Leona is probably one of the worst examples of threat generation through durability, because her personal threat is just so terrible. As for the damage from her passive being enough to generate threat, well... most ADCs can drain tank one diving bruiser, because the bruiser will continue doing the same flat damage. Lucy can't be drain tanked. She will kill you eventually, if it's just by reaching 100 stacks (obviously, an unrealistic proposition). But I feel like the inevitability of it, coupled with the difficulty of killing her (remember, she's essentially got a costless Maokai ult on herself while Stalking is active in addition to her other durability), would scare people enough to try and fight her. It's as much about perceived threat as actual threat.

Keagn1 votes

If you don't mind me asking, how do judges apply? It sounds fun :3

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

Just e-mail me at '[email protected]' with your IGN (in-game username) and I'll be happy to walk you through it!

Raptamei1 votes

@Aquaman, I have no idea what Hajali you reviewed because it isn't mine. You got every single ability completely wrong except for the ultimate.

Qareen doesn't do "a lot of damage at level one" because he can't attack, which is why there's no damage value listed. Durr. Regular Q is not blocked when Qareen is out because why would it be? W does not say anywhere that Qareen needs to be on the battlefield, it says it SUMMONS Qareen. English may be my third language but I did stick to the dictionary definition of "appear". And as for E, you assume for some reason that it blocks units even though it says it deals damage to enemies "passing through it".

With champions like these, it's easy to see when the judge goes tl;dr...

BigBenClockTower1 votes

I think part of the issue with Jahannam and the 90 second cooldown isn't that it is "short" persay. Rather, for what the ability offers, it is towards the shorter end of the spectrum. Considering it essentially hits twice (first through DoT, then through Burst), has great range compared to similar ultimates, and has two significant displacement effects attached to it as well.

With the potential power it has, I'd have personally gone for a 140 / 130 / 120 instead, as this way, it won't be ready to use every teamfight unless Hajali builds CDR.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

I think part of the issue with Jahannam and the 90 second cooldown isn't that it is "short" persay. Rather, for what the ability offers, it is towards the shorter end of the spectrum.

Thanks. :) Is there anything in particular I did wrong that cost me lots of points?

BigBenClockTower2 votes

Not really. I liked most of it. Qareen seems like he'd be hard to use efficiently (since he can be attacked), but the amount of things you can do with the dual abilities is neat, and I was able to picture them.

If anything, the only reason I didn't score 20+ for the kit, is that the numbers seem like they need work, in my opinion. Jahannam is really strong for a 90 second cooldown, for example, while Serpent Janni being a 475 Range ability on an "Immobile mid lane utility mage" is basically asking for trouble.

I like the utility going on here, and number tweaking would make this kit a solid 20+.

EDIT: Regarding Flame Darwan, did you ever consider what would happen if someone built Wit's End + Nashor's Tooth? Would they apply to Qareen's basic attacks? That could make him incredibly potent if they do apply.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

If anything, the only reason I didn't score 20+ for the kit, is that the numbers seem like they need work, in my opinion. Jahannam is really strong for a 90 second cooldown, for example, while Serpent Janni being a 475 Range ability on an "Immobile mid lane utility mage" is basically asking for trouble.

Alright. :)

EDIT: Regarding Flame Darwan, did you ever consider what would happen if someone built Wit's End + Nashor's Tooth? Would they apply to Qareen's basic attacks? That could make him incredibly potent if they do apply.

No, because you can't give him items. (Waaaaaait, do on-hit items buff Tibbers?)

BigBenClockTower1 votes

No, items do not. Tibbers is not able to apply spell effects or on-hit effects, and is classified as a minion for targeting purposes.

Fateborn1 votes

Uhm. I think you have the fourth place dead wrong I had a look at the score. There is two that scored higher than the current fourth place. Me and PrismQueenBrandi, but as the placing goes, PrismQueenBrandi won the fourth place with 279 points.

Fateborn1 votes

An additional shout-out as well to Aquaman711 for getting a bit of feedback to every concept. Keep in mind he did not have to do that, he just did it anyway!

Also calling bullshit on this. He didn't feedback on my concept, so every concept is a long reach.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Okay that I will disagree with, I see feedback to your concept on the 'Judging' Tab. Be sure to scroll right.

Fateborn1 votes

Oh, I thought in the official concept thread. ... My bad.

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

No problem, happens. I can't really fault someone for not noticing something at the moment! :P

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

You are 100% correct, completely my bad there. But hey this is the exact reason I make sure to publicly disclose the scores, so i can get called out on large mistakes such as this. Uno momento

Edit: Edited and Credited

Dyslexai1 votes

No worries, JuhnZeiFox! Glad I could help.

And just to clarify, I'm only saying that a base stat block (starting AD/AS/HP5, that kind of stuff) is little more than fluff in my mind. Ability numbers are extremely important, and always will be. Ability numbers have a huge bearing on how a kit works, there's absolutely no denying that. And I'll never say that ability numbers are pointless. It would be nearly impossible to judge if a mechanic is broken or not without some indication of how powerful the effects are. I'll even settle for "deals a small amount of damage and a large stun" when I'm judging, as that gives me a clear picture of the intention of the ability and that's what's really important to me. You can ballpark numbers all day long, but I really feel like the whole point is moot without actually being able to playtest it.

I remember reading somewhere (I can't remember if it was a Riot post or not) that an ability kit should feel good with and without numbers on it. A mechanically sound kit is one where the numbers can be changed to whatever value or removed completely, but the kit still flows and feels good to play as and against. Numerical balance is something that changes constantly, mechanical balance isn't.

It might be an interesting thing to try sometime. Find your favorite champion in League and look at their skillset without taking numbers into account at all, then ask yourself whether their abilities help them perform their role or not. When I look at Wise, I don't see a support. I see a carry with a channeled taunt(there's an odd statement) and a buff that he can give to half of his team, while simultaneously invalidating the enemy ADC with his damage reduction skill. On top of that, he can go invisible for an indeterminate amount of time and, with the way it's written, attack with his "permanent lich bane" for no penalty out of his invisibility. I'm not even talking about the numbers when I say that's overbearing.

warpenguin5551 votes

How can i see my final score? EDIT: Oh, nevermind lol

Elphrihaim1 votes

:V I should reaaallly remember to check this forum more often.

CONGRATULATIONS TO PEOPLE! C:

Aquaman 711, awesome person that they are, said that since Alenda's Q lacks the 'when charge time is exceeded' clause, "it would automatically cast anyway". This was not my intent, it was that it would cancel. I implied this with the usage of the word 'die' in the extra details, but I should have made this much more explicit.

They said "Her W is also problematic" and gave a bunch of valid reasons-- I'd just like to clarify something for this.

Her W does so much damage because if it is used for damage then Alenda doesn't move a lot.

And she retains access to it in Wolf state because magic.

It was also said that her E "still provide[s] an escape tool either way" which it doesn't, her E in Human form is exclusively for damage and scouting. It has high AP scaling because it's her only reliable AP-scaling skill, which was done because I felt it would be inappropriate for it to scale off of AD.

Her wolf state:

Gale's "cooldown and mana costs are disturbingly low." This is because (oops) it was designed for a version where Alenda was locked out of her basic attack while in Wolf state.

Her E was given speed so that she could stay in melee. Her W is not useful in the slightest for staying in melee, only for getting out of it or getting into it in the first place, due to the recast time and fact that it needs to hit something in order to pull Alenda.

The purpose of Alenda's ultimate is to allow her to dodge skillshots while charging her Q. That's why it has such a small amount of range-- it is explicitly not supposed to be for dashing in Human state. It gains that utility in Wolf state so that she can actually get in melee and take advantage of her wolf kit.

[had to switch reply methods because brain gave out]

When I first read through it, I loved it.

Yes! Yes!

It would make a great opening paragraph for a book.

Good, because that's what it's supposed to read as. :V

I mean, what’s going on?

She's recalling her past, re-motivating herself to keep charging onward.

Is she a wolf that turned into a human, or vice versa?

Human that can change into a wolf.

Where did she live?

When I wrote this, I was thinking: 'Does it matter where she lived?', and I couldn't think of an answer. It would make sense for her to come from Demacia, but there's not really any need to be specific. She doesn't seem like the sort of person to hold allegiances like that.

What happened to her home?

It was partially destroyed by a military invasion.

'War-torn', 'destroyed city', 'liberating' were the words I chose to help imply that, but I guess it didn't work.

But… after I read it a few more times, it just doesn’t feel like LoL lore. After I really thought about it, Alenda’s lore didn’t really fit into the world of Runeterra.

You are right, now that you have me thinking. She does not fit as well as she should, the lore doesn't match anything stylistically.

Also, do we really need another girl who turns into a beast? The whole theme just screams ‘Nidalee’ to me.

Ahahaa oops.

I forgot she existed.

No, seriously. I designed Alenda's entire kit in a fervor, so I didn't remember of any ability in-game existing.

And now to finish her as a concept. :V

Tucsters1 votes

YEY! This was my first time submitting and I got SECOND! WHOOO! Hope to keep up these champion concepts for next time. Also, how would I be able to submit for being a judge? I'd like to try it out

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