Am I the only one who bothered by this..?

It Is I Emoto·Dec 15, 2014·31 votes·16,406 views

With Sonas VU/TU, she recieved a new base skin, like many know. Though, I always felt bothered when I played with it, though I noticed it now after a while.. Her Splash Art and the ingame model have quite some detail differences. I'm mostly bothered with the Etwahl, because on her older skin, it had much more details than the new model has now. I know that Sona was low priority with a VU, but she was in need of one, yet it's not even accurate to her splashart, while her pre-work model did. http://i.gyazo.com/975469378c8d54e68a8995becf59b24d.png http://i.gyazo.com/1509438c15e667a97eeb2b9795adc538.png

And of course of her pre-work model http://i.gyazo.com/10553621e34156ae8252c3fc3eaee266.png

I'd be really happy if the design team would fix that issue. It might be not as important as other champions now, but she lost quite alot of details.

60 Comments

Williwaw87Dec 16, 201418 votes

Sorry - they're too busy nerfing her to care item 3070

It Is I EmotoDec 16, 20149 votes

rito pls

Pika310Dec 17, 20148 votes

Hashtag Nerf ~~Irelia~~ Sona

RiotmoonstonesJan 30, 201611 votes

Someone had mentioned this post in another thread and wanted to comment here real quick.

Updated content, as well as new content has been stylistically changed to look better from an in game height, which means making it a bit less busy. A good comparison of this would be Arclight Varus (done in the old style) and Arclight Vayne (done in the new style).

As for splash, it's a totally different medium from in-game, so they're not a 1:1, but they're similar.

Photos of GhostsJan 30, 20166 votes

Still, in this specific case, Sona looks quite outdated. If one focuses on the hair, one can see it's a new model, but else the style really looks like a relic from the past. I think a good step forward would be bringing some of her golden linings on par with the bluish silver ones of the splash, as well as remaking some shading around the shoulders? Then there's something weird about her posture, but considering she floats midair I guess that's understandable.

It Is I EmotoJan 30, 20163 votes

Thanks for your reply!

I used to grow up with the old 1:1 Sona from ingame and splash, wich made me kinda sad, cause I grew up with her older design wich was lovely to me (even these tiny hearts made out of bass clefs! they're still on her newer model, though kinda really ... awkwardly positioned) Despite this being old and kinda really forgotten, I'm glad I've got a reply yo!

Have a nice day :D

RiotmoonstonesJan 30, 20168 votes

Glad to help! I've been playing Sona since her release, so I feel you on the nostalgic side of things.

Yuzuki YukarinFeb 12, 20167 votes

"We made it similar to the splash, but not the same."

This is just an excuse for laziness. "We could've taken the time to do a good job, but we decided to half-ass it instead." Changing the Bass Clefs on the front of her dress back into Treble Clefs WOULD IN NO WAY MAKE IT MORE "BUSY." Your choice to just continue ignoring this issue that you've already ignored for more than a year makes me wonder if you share the same hatred towards Sona that has been openly proclaimed by Meddler or Jag.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 12, 201611 votes

Sona is one of my favorite champions. D:

I would disagree that it's laziness and it's more of an artistic decision, but that's entirely your opinion and I respect that. It seems you're pretty passionate about Sona.

This isn't a project I specifically worked on, so I don't have all the details as to why x decision was made over another - I poked in this thread to explain how our texturing and design of champions and skins has changed over the period of several years, which is why things such as her Etwahl have been cleaned up and don't have a super busy design anymore.

Speaking more specifically to the splash, I'd mentioned we're looking at two different mediums. We can put in a ton more detail into the splash because it's a piece of 2D art that isn't manipulated or moving. This is where we fall into content looking different in some cases when compared to the splash.

The splash is meant to be a representation of the skin itself, but it won't be a 1:1.

Nagoh ShanFeb 12, 20167 votes

Can I ask?

Because splashes can differ so heavily from the skins themselves, and the splashes are the only official way to preview a skin, why is there no in-client model viewer to allow people to preview a skin pre-purchase.

While I understand that there's the skin spotlight (soon to be homeless), and lolking's model viewer, they are community run, and often the model viewer is broken for certain skins. Should it really be on the community to create ways for people to see something before they buy it?

And just a heads up, there's still quite a bit of salt over the Sona rework, to which I possess some myself, but other people take it to the point where if someone doesn't hate literally everything that happened to Sona 4.13 and later, they hate Sona's existence. Which is something I think is just a little excessive.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 12, 20169 votes

The splashes don't differ drastically in most cases - the major pieces of what's included in the skin are present, and like I'd said, in most cases, there's just a bit more detail.

It shouldn't be in the community, no. Since we currently do not have an in-game model viewer, we have begun putting examples of the actual in-game models in our announcement posts, which is located on the home page of the client, as well as leagueoflegends.com

I can't much speak to the rework or balance, I'm on skins, so this is wayyy out of the realm of what I know. D:

Nagoh ShanFeb 12, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=0KPJ9lh9,comment-id=000b0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-12T18:48:51.671+0000)

It shouldn't be in the community, no. Since we currently do not have an in-game model viewer, we have begun putting examples of the actual in-game models in our announcement posts, which is located on the home page of the client, as well as leagueoflegends.com

Well didn't even notice that :p

I always use the other resources, read the threads, and generally just keep aware of whats going on before it happens so I never really feel the need to read the announcement. Good stuff.

I can't much speak to the rework or balance, I'm on skins, so this is wayyy out of the realm of what I know. D:

Not saying it is, just a heads up that that type of comment tends to indicate a, um lets say, less reasonable rhetoric.

Yuzuki YukarinFeb 12, 20165 votes

Since you're still ignoring the point I'm trying to make, I'll try to put it as clearly as I can:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/BENxLU8p-fix-sonas-robe-design

RiotmoonstonesFeb 12, 201611 votes

I'm not ignoring it. I'm explaining why we did it and we we aren't going to revert/change the design.

Yuzuki YukarinFeb 15, 20164 votes

That's the same thing as ignoring it. It doesn't matter how you're wording your excuse, it's still nothing more than an excuse. Your team made a mistake because of their lackadaisical attitude towards DOING THEIR JOB and rather than owning up to it and fixing the problem, you're just sweeping it under the rug. Typical Rito behavior that I've long since learned to expect from "balance" and now it seems I've learned "skins" follows the exact same arrogance.

It seems my words are lost on you and you've confirmed my suspicion that Sona's old skins were downgraded INTENTIONALLY as an underhanded means to make up the lost sales for DJ due in direct cause to patch 4.13 making her unplayable. Which ultimately didn't work anyways.

I'm done with your Sona-hating attitude and you can be certain I'll remember the disrespect you've shown.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 16, 201613 votes

I'll leave you with this -

That's the same thing as ignoring it.

I've acknowledged your points. I've explained why these choices were made. I'm sorry you're unhappy with them, and you're absolutely entitled to your own decision on that, and I respect it.

It seems my words are lost on you and you've confirmed my suspicion that Sona's old skins were downgraded INTENTIONALLY as an underhanded means to make up the lost sales for DJ due in direct cause to patch 4.13 making her unplayable.

Nope! Not the case in the least.

Her previous skins were updated to better match the overall look of the game - again, see Arclight Vayne v. Arclight Varus. As with any update, some may love it and some may hate it, which is understandable because you're likely grown attached. There's a lot of work done behind the scenes in terms of iteration and discussion, and the final product is something the subject matter experts on the team believe is the right call for the game.

I'm done with your Sona-hating attitude and you can be certain I'll remember the disrespect you've shown.

Sona's one of my mains, so I can assure you, she's not someone I hate. :P Sorry you feel like you've been disrespected. My goal here was to explain why decisions were made here to give you a better sense of how/why things were done.

Hope this has been helpful! ^-^

GinoSoldierFeb 16, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=0KPJ9lh9,comment-id=000b000200000001000000000001,timestamp=2016-02-16T02:29:46.425+0000)

Snip

Thanks for popping by. Sona threads are usually full of salty-acting players who can't seem to get over the aura change thing. I for one damn love the updated gameplay and the aura interactions.

I'm much more worried about balance issues as the meta takes a nosedive towards assassins. Between the addition of Duskblade giving free executes, the update to Maw making it a prime choice for assassins looking for MR, and the updated Mastery trees giving anyone who rocks Thunderlords basically free extra burst, I can't seem to be able to play her right in mid lane anymore (Sona Mid being about 80-90% of any and all of my games last year).

(Please note that Sona cannot effectively use Thunderlords due to her enhanced autoattack counting for only one hit regardless of Powerchord or Q buffs. This means Sona either has to auto twice or use her ult for the Thunderlords to proc. I chose to go with Stormraider's because of the hit-and-run it offers.)

I get outdamaged by champs like Azir and Leblanc that i could always beat before because regular and very, very easy Thunderlord hits whittle me down too fast. I get outbuilt by assassins like Zed who i could usually play against on an even level, because Hexdrinker and Serrated Dirk basically offer everything they could ever want early and build into great items. Let's not get any illusions here. Some mages can get away with building RoA or other items first, Sona has only two options early in mid lane; Sheen for the proc damage, and Frost Queen's Claim for the utility. Neither of which will ever save her from any/most assassin all-ins at level 6.

As an easy example; two days ago i laned against a Zed. The lane was even, I even forced him to back out of lane first. When he got back with Serrated Dirk he knew he had enough damage, as soon as he came back to lane he went all in and deleted me all in one combo. I used my barrier, I used my W, I got under my turret and ulted him, he shadowed out back to the middle of the lane and i died to his ultimate anyway. I was either full health or near to it.

I feel like Riot forgets the impact of adding damage everywhere. Am I crazy here?

Yuzuki YukarinFeb 16, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=0KPJ9lh9,comment-id=000b000200000001000000000001,timestamp=2016-02-16T02:29:46.425+0000)

Sona's one of my mains, so I can assure you, she's not someone I hate. :P Sorry you feel like you've been disrespected. My goal here was to explain why decisions were made here to give you a better sense of how/why things were done.

Actions speak louder than words and your actions are in direct contradiction to everything you've said here. Have a "nice" life.

Ryuholy749Feb 16, 20163 votes

Katey, as a fellow Sona main I'd like to thank you for taking the time to address this issue. I'm sorry you got so much hate for trying to be helpful, but I, for one, appreciate you trying to clear things up. What you said about simplifying skins make total sense.

Chaotic ReksDec 16, 20147 votes

old sona looked better...

Miku Hime samaDec 22, 20144 votes

It's too bad they didn't use the same artists. I'm sure they have to pay less to whoever they hired that made this atrocity.

Besides, Riot cares more about quantity than quality. They'd rather every champion looks like shit, instead of having a few looking really nice and everyone else being OK.

Pika310Dec 25, 20143 votes

#BetterNerfSona

It Is I EmotoDec 17, 20147 votes

I'd like mention that this problem has been already said in the forums, yet no rioter did answer them. Let's be honest, Fearless why didn't Sona get a complete Visual update with all her skins too? I mean, look at her Pentakill one, it's still the same, and you can't change my mind about it. It still uses the boring flat hair, and that spikey dress that sona had before the Mode update. As well, her acrade skins hair is extremly plain and lacks of shadings too. As well, her Q aura is also visually bugged, and I thought that Fearless would put alot of effort on the effects, yet they missed quite a small bug..

Emmy Cha0sDec 18, 20145 votes

Pentakill didn't get changed during the "rework" because it was already changed just a few months prior with the rest of the Pentakill line of skins. You're right that it looks like trash, though. Just like the rest of her skins. The Etwahl looks especially horrid, like some child's plastic plaything.

Pika310Dec 23, 20144 votes

#BetterNerfSona

MeesterMooApr 21, 20151 votes

Plaything? Who uses that word? XD

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20151 votes

It used to be used quite a lot, at least where I lived. I guess people must have stopped saying it nearly as often. That's just how trends go.

HetchyDec 15, 20145 votes

I think you have a point. I like the update, but the scroll work on both her instrument and dress need to be refined.

Pika310Dec 17, 20146 votes

More importantly, they need to remove those disgusting Bass Clefs on her dress and put back the elegant Treble Clefs that belong there. Her classic splash arts have always had Treble Clefs, her original in-game model had Treble Clefs. Riot's skin team is clearly just musically inept.

Pika310Dec 17, 20145 votes

I've been saying this for a while. In my opinion, her hair looks just as bad as the Etwahl does. Sadly, her base skin as much of an eye-sore it is comparably to previous, is the best looking. All of her skins look even worse. Take a moment to look at Silent Night and you may get the urge to gouge your eyes at her puke-green hair and completely discolored robes.

You know as well as I that Riot hates Sona, made obvious by the nearly 20 nerfs they made to her in the last 24 weeks. Certainly this overflows into her visual model as well. Either that, or at the very least Fearless is coercing the skins team into not finishing their work, since he's trying to get her deleted from the game anyways.

As a final note, I just noticed they changed the Treble Clefs on her robe to Bass Clefs. WTF? Is the skins team musically inept? They probably couldn't tell the difference between a damned quarter note from Fortissimo. Why the hell would Sona ever have Bass Clefs in her design? I'm disgusted. Just outright disgusted.

It Is I EmotoDec 17, 20146 votes

(I'm pretty sure that Fearless and their team don't know what songs are, since that what she's playing now are NOT songs)

Fearless admitted that he tried to make her visually more appealing, yet most of her skins don't even use a model update, and her hair on her arcrade skin is pretty bland. It don't even has any shading, it's only colord purple, and that's upsetting me so much, I don't even play that skin anymore because of her hair. As well, the Q aura is bugged on every skin so far, and that's what fearless calls "alot of work on her effects and visuals" I posted the bug one week before the recent patch, yet no one took care of it so far :/

Pika310Dec 19, 20144 votes

(I'm pretty sure that Fearless and their team don't know what songs are, since that what she's playing now are NOT songs)

Lol, I'll bet they filled their i-Tunes or whatever they use with nothing, but commercial music. They seem to think that songs are only supposed to be one line and that's it. They'd probably be completely shocked if they heard real symphonies, or just anything that plays longer than 5 seconds. In reality, many of the great works of art could fill an entire match of Rift without concluding. A single song can sometimes last over an hour, what they've done to Sona is musically absurd and has completely ruined her persona.

Emmy Cha0sDec 20, 20144 votes

i-Tunes? Nah nah man, they'd need to be technologically adept to use that. I'd be willing to bet you 3 Ancient Coins and a Spellthief's Edge that Fearless uses an 8 track player.

Speaking of filling an entire Rift game with song makes me miss hearing Sona's ambient music. Ugh, I'm so frustrated I don't even know what to say next. By now, pretty much everything that can be said in Sona's defense already has been multipletimes. Every mathematical calculation has been solved and re-solved dozens of times over by countless individuals and Riot still refuses to set their hatred aside. It's just too deep-seated for us to reason with them.

Pika310Dec 26, 20143 votes

Ya, I could totally see the balance team listening to 8 track. They seem technologically outdated enough to own an entire collection of them.

19 19 19Dec 16, 20144 votes

her boobs look fine

VbunnieDec 16, 20143 votes

trust me you think that is bad look at champs like kogma his splash art is balck and kog is white that is way way diifferent.

It Is I EmotoDec 16, 20143 votes

I think that was because of the shades that are used in the splash.. it appears like that Kog is somewhere dark, what makes him look quite dark, even if he's white but, don't forget veigar, he's purple in his splash, while his ingame model is blue lmao

CatastropFeb 12, 20161 votes

So I'm not the only who was confused by Kog's in-game when I first saw his splash. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_uZ1ltl-qPM/maxresdefault.jpg Honestly the most misleading thing I'd ever seen.

The5lackerDec 16, 20143 votes

Excessive detail doesn't make a skin better. Heavily detailed textures lead to artifacting, which makes it looks worse as a whole in game.

PhDs NutsDec 16, 20145 votes

{quoted}

Excessive detail doesn't make a skin better. Heavily detailed textures lead to artifacting, which makes it looks worse as a whole in game.

My problem with it isn't about texture detail. It's about pattern detail. The pattern on the instrument and her ribbons in the model don't even match the splash art now.

The5lackerDec 17, 20143 votes

...I don't think you know what the word "texture" means in terms of game mechanics.

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20152 votes

What does it matter what the word "texture" means or not? Her robes have bass clefs, but they're supposed to be treble clefs. Are you trying to say they can do one, but not the other despite being of equivalent minuteness?

nonamewarriorDec 15, 20142 votes

It doesn't matter... It looks fine just the way it is. There are many other Champions with this problem to a larger degree, (especially with the Splash Art Updates) I personally have no problem, Riot does well with what they have, and I think Simple Models and epic Splashes just add to the beauty of League.

It Is I EmotoDec 15, 20146 votes

I thought it would be alright too, though, Sonas Etwahl is pretty much the most noticeable thing on her model. It's flying around her, shining brightly in a pleasant gold tone, with having all those details craved in the instrument. I most the enjoyed looking at it, if I got the chance to. I know that other models have also some issues with their splashes, though, in my opinion, the instrument is one of Sonas most noticeable details of her model/character, what made me quite disappointed after realising the update.

DrogeistDec 15, 20141 votes

Both look good and the spell effects on the new model are gorgeous. But I agree that the detail on the instrument looks better on the old model!

It Is I EmotoDec 16, 20144 votes

Yeah it really does. (Though her Q aura is visually bugged lmao)

Pika310Dec 17, 20145 votes

Of course the spell effects look good. It was the only thing they gave a shit about during the "rework." Fearless came out and said he intentionally ignored the PBE complaints to focus on making certain the visual effects were bug-free. Which is why she's had about 5 or more actual gameplay bugs. Of course, in all seriousness the 2 range nerfs to Hymn were both secretly intentional.

KnattOct 1, 20151 votes

I don't play Sona that much so I'm just speculating. Sona's original Etwahl has so many fine details, and players are so zoomed out during a game, the texture may have looked muddy to some people at Riot. that's just my guess

Miku Hime samaOct 2, 20153 votes

Maybe, but that doesn't explain why the color schemes and major details on all of her skins are completely wrong as well. Intricacy is one thing, but this is a big picture sort of problem. Riot ignored both the forest and the trees, they just blatantly didn't care that she looked worse after.