About Sona nerfs on PBE

It Is I Emoto·Nov 10, 2014·38 votes·5,290 views

Hello, I'm wondering for what those Sona nerfs are on the pbe servers. Her Q aura ap ratio got reduced to 0.2 from 0.25 Her W Heal increase got reduced to 0.5% from 1% Her W base heal got increased to 30/50/70/90/110 from 25/45/65/85/105

So. Let's caculate.. if your ally is left with 1% health, the max heal is now 45/75/105/135/165 Before it was 50/90/140/180/210

So Riot, why are you nerfing Sonas Late game that hard? I know that I've said once that her Shield should outscale her heal.. but I honestly think that's the wrong way how to do it. Look at nami as example. Her stats for her Heal are much higher without any % scaling on allies health and it also heals multiple targets as well. At least, if you're nerfing some parts of her late game, buff her a little too. Like making her Q aura apply on turrets and other structures.

101 Comments

YoellaNov 10, 201422 votes

I don't even play Sona, and I think she's one of the last champions who could possibly warrant a nerf. You're cutting her W heal increase in HALF??!

WTF Riot?

Vellich0rNov 11, 20143 votes

she is godlike strong right now, she has early issues but her late is ridiculous.

It Is I EmotoNov 11, 20145 votes

Not really, she can get easily countered and depends alot on her team as well. it's not like that she can oneshot people at lvl 1

Vellich0rNov 11, 20142 votes

noone can, but her heals become batshit crazy by level 6, past that you are just looking at something crazy, she has one of the highest winrates of any champion in league right now, and is actually relatively popular. she is a full package and with the aforementioned facts i dont think they are going to even consider cancelling the nerfs without a damn good reason.

YoellaNov 11, 20144 votes

A few things I'd like to say... First of all, I find Sona really easy to shut down. Yeah her abilities, especially her ultimate, are annoying and she heals people, but that's what supports are supposed to do. Besides, get an item or ability that inflicts Grievous Wounds like Morellonomicon item 3165 and her heals peel away like dead skin.

My issue with the nerf is that they're cutting her W heal in half. 1 to 0.5, that's a LOT. I would be happier with 1 to 0.8 or 0.85, but cutting it in half is way too harsh. I'm afraid they're going to nerf the songstress into a blue period.

Remlap1223Nov 10, 201415 votes

And the Olaf ing continues to champs that really don't deserve it, and meanwhile Lee Sin's jungle dominance sees no end in sight.

Creamy SeamanNov 11, 20145 votes

LeeSin But meh skillshut.

OrbvNov 10, 201412 votes

As a Soraka main, I don't understand the nerfs to Sona . So she has a high winrate, it's not like she has high base stats on anything. The easiest solution is to kill her early and make her useless otherwise.

What was the goal here? I still see these more often Janna Thresh Leona Blitzcrank

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20144 votes

Agreed. Sonas early game is possibly the weakest right now, and if you're caught in a bad position, you get an extreme punishment by the enemy support. Yet nerfing her Late game for a high win rate is still quite questionable, because thats where Sona shines the most.

Sailor MintNov 10, 20144 votes

You either kill Sona or suffer for you sins. If Sona lives she just mashes W a bunch of times and then proceeds to turn the lane around because she has sustain and you don't.

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20143 votes

though then it wonders me why they won't nerf Morgana instead, since she has/had also a high winrate for some reason. Yet I didn't saw any nerfs for her in months :V

Pika310Dec 23, 20141 votes

Thresh Muahahahaha! What is the worth of a nerf?

I am the nerfbat under the bed.

Ever seen a nerf? Would you like to?

item 3070 Sona

#BetterNerfSona

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20145 votes

Nerfing champs for having a high winrate is dumb. Nerfing champs with a high banrate is probably better.

Circuit BearNov 11, 20141 votes

Don't worry they nerfed Soraka now too. your silence gets an extra 6 second cooldown.

OrbvNov 13, 20141 votes

Are you fricking kidding me?.......That really sucks

AlljoyNov 10, 201411 votes

As a Sona main, I'm sad. Amumu

Fed by Snu SnuNov 10, 201411 votes

Not enough #lcsbigplays to allow her to contest Braum and Thresh.

NarasimhaNov 10, 201410 votes

Its because she's crowding out other similar supports. She has reliable poke, reliable heal, and a semi-reliable escape.

Sightless66Nov 10, 201410 votes

Is she though crowding out other supports? I'm seeing Nami and Janna just as much as Sona, and those are arguably the supports who are competing for the same roles. I don't think Sona's state is causing anyone else to not be played.

NarasimhaNov 10, 20141 votes

She competes with Nami and Lulu mostly. Janna primarily serves as a peeling support. And I'm certainly not saying she's completely destroying other picks. But for how easy she is to use and master, she's giving out too much of a reward. Lulu and Nami have atleast choices. You can poke at the cost of heal, or vice versa. Lulu has to decide between polymorph and a ms boost, and between her poke and a shield. At the moment, Sona can do everything, with the only trade off being her mana. She can poke both bot lane opponents simultaneously, and she can heal + shield when called for.

Sightless66Nov 10, 20147 votes

Except both of those picks have significant advantages over Sona, particularly in all-in fights or in crowd control.

I don't agree that she's giving out too much reward. I don't think she's giving out any more reward than Nami for the same role.

You can poke at the cost of heal, or vice versa.

No, Nami does both, and it costs her significantly less mana than it costs Sona.

You represent the extra functionalities of Lulu's kit as a weakness. I can't agree. Having options of different functionality when another champion like Sona has exactly one use for her abilities is an advantage, not a weakness.

She's not crowding out other supports at all. Not a single pick is made less viable by Sona's current position in the game. Nami is still a top-tier support, and Lulu is weak only because she's faced multiple nerfs caused by her solo-lane position. Sona is uninvolved in the balance state of either champion.

She may be overpowered or not overpowered, but I don't think your explanation holds any weight.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 10, 20142 votes

Honestly, I have said multiple times in the forums that I would pick Sona over Soraka . I'm not saying that's why Riot is nerfing her, but if she was to competing with another champion that they want to look good (considering the recent rework), I would look to Soraka .

Sightless66Nov 10, 20142 votes

I don't really agree. I'd pick Soraka much more readily against bursty pick comps than I would Sona. Much more potential to make saves with quick healing and disrupt the picks with the silence. They're maybe a bit comparable in lane, but out of it, they have pretty different roles.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 10, 20142 votes

I thought exactly the opposite. The Sona shield + heal is great for protecting squishies against burst, and I think of both as pokey, sustained healers. One of my biggest complaints about new Soraka is that Sona pretty much does whatever she can, but better...

I realize their kits are INTENDED to play differently, but I don't agree that it's working out that way. I think Soraka needs some bigger changes to feel unique to me. Sona is a much safer healer than Soraka now, and as such, I can see why they would want to nerf her healing. Soraka is supposed to be the best healer, and I think Sona does it better due to the fact that she can do it without losing any health.

Sightless66Nov 11, 20143 votes

I don't agree. The shield + heal is good against instant burst, but Soraka's ult is even better for that, and a fight lasts even 2 seconds, Soraka outheals Sona so much it isn't even funny. Soraka heals almost as much with one W as Sona heals and shields combined, and given the extremely short cooldown, getting off 2 is pretty much guaranteed even in burst situations, and more is not hard.

I don't think of Soraka as a sustained healer, at least not in any kind of fighting situation. Soraka is a burst healer. She can keep a team alive much, much, much better than Sona can, while Sona has a sustained healing advantage because she doesn't lose health. I don't think their roles overlap much. I think people want Soraka to be a sustained healer and try to put her in that role and find her overlaping with Sona there. I don't think she can work well that way except against very non-aggro teams, so I don't play her that way.

I play both of them, and I don't pick Sona and Soraka for any of the same teams. I might pick Sona and Nami for some of the same teams, but I find myself questioning whether to play Janna or Soraka, not Sona or Soraka. I really never have any desire to pick both of them for any given team.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 11, 20141 votes

Hmm. Well, two things:

I don't think Soraka should be a burst healer. I don't like that concept at all, so I guess I might have overlooked it as a possibility. I'm willing to admit that.
Thanks for the respectable disagreement. Seems rare around here. :)

Sightless66Nov 11, 20141 votes

I like Soraka as a burst healer. Not something anyone else really does. We've got a few different people who give allies streams of health. No one else jumps on an ally and forces gallons of life down their unwilling throats every time they desperately try to get themselves picked off. I do like doing that.

I will say, I wasn't a fan of old Soraka's design at all, so that is likely factoring into me liking the new one more.

cshakesNov 10, 20142 votes

She's crowding out Soraka. Sona has reliable poke and a load of sustain. Soraka's sustain doesn't apply to herself, and costs health. Sona only expends mana for instant sustain.

She's also annoying in lane, since no matter how hard she loses level one, she'll just press W at level 2 and restore herself to near full health. The only real way to beat her is to pick Leona and reach level 2 before her.

Sightless66Nov 10, 20143 votes

I don't quite agree. Soraka has much more power to save people and prevent them from dying in fights than Sona does. For purely sustain purposes Sona's heal edges out Soraka, but Soraka's heal is much more capable of keeping an ally alive. This, along with the silence, makes her significantly stronger against bursty pick comps or for dealing with swarming divers. I'd take her over Sona for that role any day. Passive sustain is all Sona's heal does well. Soraka's does so much more in general.

Honestly, I haven't had troubles with Sona in lane for quite a while. She's pretty easy to outfight, and her poke is decreased slightly from what it was pre-rework. Beating her level 1 isn't the way you fight her anyway, unless she has absolutely no mana regen.

ShenpaiPlsNoticeNov 12, 20142 votes

Sona's always been one of my favorite champs and was my main until midseason 4's change to Frostfang (Ok it was OP as hell and as Sona you could easily out earn your ADC just by poking.)

The only champion that Sona's state is causing to be unplayed, is probably Sona herself. She's MUCH less common than pre-rework Sona and dies very easily to the more popular supports atm like Blitzcrank Leona Morgana Thresh Nami

Sailor MintNov 10, 20149 votes


Base Heal:	25/45/65/85/105 (+0.2AP)	⇒	30/50/70/90/110 (+0.2AP)
Max Heal:	50/90/130/170/210 (+0.4AP)	⇒	45/75/105/135/165 (+0.3AP)
50% Heal:	38/68/98/128/158 (+0.3AP)	⇒	38/63/88/113/138 (+0.25AP)

Pre-rework Sona (normalized to 10 sec CD): 57/78/99/121/142 (+0.35AP)

We're talking about a 12-22% late game healing reduction at lower health levels, before AP. Barely noticeable against targets above 50% health.

Most likely done because of her potential stalling in lane. As long as this bug doesn't make it to live.

It Is I EmotoNov 14, 20141 votes

Did something happen against the bug? it seems like that Riot did not look closer at it for some reason

Sailor MintNov 14, 20141 votes

Been checking on a daily basis.

It's still healing for half the base amount. Of course, hard to say if they just haven't gone back to fix it or are having other issues fixing it.

It Is I EmotoNov 14, 20143 votes

I just hope riot won't do the same mistake as they did before with Sona.. remember that she had like for serveral weeks this Q range bug? because no one was looking clearly on it? Jeez.. I can just say that Riot doesn't like Sona at all, instead of keep bugging her, I'd hope that they rework the rework again..

Sirin GioroNov 10, 20149 votes

She provides decent utility but only one crowd control which is her ult. Not really related, though. These nerfs are just kind of outrageous.

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20143 votes

She provides decent utility but only one crowd control which is her ult. Not really related, though. These nerfs are just kind of outrageous.

agreed.

RottedApplesNov 10, 20149 votes

the rework was unwarranted and bad enough for her. Can you please stop nerfing sona for no reason at all

MAZZ1M0Nov 10, 20146 votes

LoL, I saw this on newsoflegends listed as a "buff", like 5 point base increase is a fair trade for all the other crap they simultaneously nerfed -and after that awful rework. Dunno what the deal is. I'm convinced they're deadset on killing her. A bunch of supports were hit by the mana regen nerf though. Riot's been biased against supports since the season started. I doubt it's intentional, but damn, they keep nerfing with few reworks and aside from the Soraka rework (which seems okay, I don't play her so I dunno for sure) they've gotten horrible feedback.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 10, 20145 votes

Theyre going through the top solo queue picks

Sona, Kat, Rammus and Gnar were all hit

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 201411 votes

probably still wondering why Sona recieved hard nerfs like those.. her Q on hit damage doesn't even applies on turrets. she probably is only strong if she has a team that focuses very well. And getting nerfs for that is pretty dumb.

Rinky DinkyNov 10, 20145 votes

These nerfs are ridiculous. Is there anything we can do to stop this?

Please, im desperate. I only want my Sona to shine ;-;

Poorly DressedNov 10, 20144 votes

About time, she is super strong wtf bbq deluxe on ARAM :D

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 201412 votes

????????????????????

It Is I EmotoNov 12, 20143 votes

Now I'm wondering where the rioter is with the "why" part.. I'd love to have a explenation.

LlaniteNov 10, 20141 votes

They buffed support gold income in S5, their ratio went down because of that.

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 201415 votes

In S5? I didn't heard of those. Could you show me those?

Earl EulrichNov 12, 20141 votes

because she deserves it. It´s not just a coincidence she´s top 3 winrate in any given gamemode.

MrSlowDieNov 12, 20143 votes

because she deserves it. It´s not just a coincidence she´s top 3 winrate in any given gamemode.

can we buff yasuo, alistar and zilean pls !!

DirewolfiezNov 12, 20144 votes

The only game mode that Riot is supposed to use for balancing is 5v5 Summoner's Rift. Saying Sona is OP in ARAM does not mean she should get across-the-board nerfs. That's just dumb. I'd like it if they gave champs ARAM-specific nerfs, but nope, apparently that's too much to ask for.

It Is I EmotoNov 12, 20142 votes

And Amumu? He's like on 2nd place on the highest winrates right after rammus. And did he got any critical nerfs like Sona? Not really. If the players are good with achampion, then it's obvious why they win with them. I also saw people who just picked certain champs to counter me as Sona, yet sacrificed alot of utility for nothing. After seeing those nerfs from other champs and compare them to Sona, it seems like that they looked really hard on Sona for some reason.