Are we still ignoring that Sonas current Play Style is unhealthy for her Gameplay?

It Is I Emoto··42 votes·3,908 views

She's right now a glasscanon support, who's supposed to do as much damage as possible with her powerchords and that is it. She can't cc by her own, and has to put herself constantly in danger so she can do something, mostly with her powerchords, getting in 550 range where she can be easily focused on, mostly if the enemy champs have gapclosers.

You guys did boost her damage on her Q, but in a bad way. It's on-hit damage, and auto attacks have currently no to less counters now, wich makes many players frustrated about her and to play against her. And as a Sona player, I have to say that this playstyle is not healthy for her. She has to get constantly in range for enemies so she can do damage. Don't forget the 550 range nerf, that was appearantly not noticed, while it was pointed on on the pbe multiple times.

And I can point alot of things out what makes her gameplay unhealthy; -She has constantly to be in range of her allies, wich means she has also to be incase in the front row of fights -She is incredible squishy -Her current auras/ratios/base stats force her to build ability power, because they are way too weak -She has barley item choices that actually help her to support -She's weak by her own. Yeah she can throw her ult, though this means if the enemy team knows it, that they can win the next teamfight in 60~80 seconds. -She has no crowd control to defend herself pre-six

and the list goes on.

Sona is still in need of a kit rework and probably also sustain buffs/aura/active buffs. If you're saying that she's annoying to deal in lane Don't forget that there are also probably good Thresh/Leona/Blitz/Morgana players. If they once cc you, you're pretty much more death than a Q powerchord from Sona.

50 Comments

Meanie4019 votes

Rek'Sai 100% ban rate in the LCS? #BetterNerfSona.

Pika31016 votes

The thing is, Sona's playstyle hasn't changed, it's just been nerfed to the point where she only has 1 viable strategy and item path. She's been forced into a singular linear pattern.

Sona has ALWAYS been the auto-attacking burst champ being played now, this isn't new for **real **Sona players. The difference now is that she has no other usable strategies to rely on. In actuality, the effectiveness of even this is weaker too.

  • Lich Bane's damage got nerfed
  • Staccato damage has been reduced 60%
  • Hymn damage reduced 20%
  • Hymn aura removed. The bonus AD and AP from this flowed into everything else letting her strengthen her own abilities and autos by a large amount.

In other words, complaints about damage are completely invalid and uneducated. Fact of the matter is Sona does LESS damage than before the 4.13 nerfs.

It Is I Emoto4 votes

Yeah that's true. I played with her prework alot and never considered lich bane on her, because I felt that she was doing very well without having any damaging tools. her Q did boost her with ability power/damage wich was in my opinion alot, and so I rushed usually items that helped to sustain better, like mikaels and locket. It was nice when I as sona player had the option to choose different items for each situation, yet with her new kit it's pretty messed up and extremly forced to build ap.

Yet, she's neither a cc support, a sustain support, or a poke support. pre-6 shes an caster minion without any great interaction.

EverTokki2 votes

{quoted}

Yet, she's neither a cc support, a sustain support, or a poke support. pre-6 shes an caster minion without any great interaction.

I've always thought her auto attacks deal no more than a minion (and also looks like the caster minion's attacks) xD wp.

EverTokki1 votes

WHat, her hymn aura was removed? wtf didn't know that. what the hell have they done to Sona in the past month that I haven't played????/ omg are they serious

Direwolfiez3 votes

Yep. Check her old kit; her spells would create invisible auras (through the stance mechanic, like Udyr's) that provided stats even after the spells ended. Riot axed them and gave Sona players those crappy "upgraded" actives instead.

Riot - "Look, guys, it's a 'buff'!"

cshakes1 votes

I think that some small buffs to Sona's W and E (and respective Power Chords) and an improved AA animation (less wind-up time) would help a lot. If W's shield aura is too strong, maybe rework it? Bonus resists, a mini-heal, HP5 boost? Increase Diminuendo's numbers? Have it last longer? Have it be more of a mini-exhaust? Maybe have it "steal" AS? Increase E aura range and/or buff the numbers? Increase Tempo's slow? Have it "steal" MS for Sona?

Luner Hunter11 votes

i agree with you but here in about 10 seconds you're gonna get about a million downvotes from ppl who believe Sona should be shit tier... ya know the ADC mains, the morons who don't like to support, Morello, Fearless, and the list goes on

Krys Star9 votes

The rework was a total failure, but you have to admit doing so much damage with your Q and getting away with it because of its high range was just outright silly and frustrating for the enemy team. I personally agree with having to earn your high damage fair and square. You wanna do damage? Get in there and do it. You wanna stay safe? Then stay out of range and don't do it. The only problem is, her "rework" only served to butcher her playstyle and kit. I honestly don't even see her as a support. She's more like a weak mage now, with little focus on support prowess. Riot doesn't really know the identity of their champions anymore, really... Look at Cassiopeia for example. Now she's broken and op when she was perfectly fine and balanced before.

Altricad9 votes

It's appaling if you look at Sona's heal

Heck Alistar has a better heal ( AND HE HEALS MINIONS WTF, allowing him to anti-waveclear)

Taric has a better heal ( and he's a tank)

Nidalee has a better heal ( an assassin with heal? Better nerf sona)

EVEN SHEN ( if you play him as a support) HAS A BETTER HEAL

Alistar Triumphant Roar restores 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+20% AP) health to Alistar, and half that amount to nearby allied minions and champions.

Kayle Divine Blessing restores 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+45% AP) health to target allied champion.

Nami Ebb and Flow bounces from enemy to ally champions (or vice versa) two times, healing an ally champion when landing on them. FIRST TARGET: Heals 65 / 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 (+30% AP). SECOND TARGET: Heals 65 / 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 (+30% AP) x (85% + (+ 7.5% per 100 AP)) THIRD TARGET: Heals 65 / 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 (+30% AP) x (70% + (+ 15% per 100 AP))

Nidalee Primal Surge restores 45 / 85 / 125 / 165 / 205 (+50% AP) health to target allied champion.

Shen Vorpal Blade "life taps" a target for 5 seconds, healing any allied champions who attack it over 3 seconds for a total of 6 / 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 (+1.5% of his maximum health). If Vorpal Blade kills a target, Shen is healed for 33% of the normal amount instantly.

Sona Aria of Perseverance heals herself and the allied champion with the lowest percentage of health in range for 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 (+20% AP), increasing by 0.5% for every 1% of the target's missing health, up to 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 (+30% AP).

Soraka Astral Infusion restores 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 / 240 (+ 60% AP) health to a target allied minion or champion.

Taric Imbue.png Imbue restores 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+30% AP) (+5% of his bonus health) health to himself and target allied minion or champion. If he targets himself, he heals for 140% of that value.

Tis a nice day6 votes

I feel like the other two power chords (the heal boosted chord and the speed boosted chord) should have more immediately noticeable effects. Give Sona some incentive to invest in her other abilities depending on lane matchups and she'll go a long way without being overwhelming to play against.

Vesarixx7 votes

the other problem is that staccato has the shortest downtime, if you use diminuendo or tempo you have a larger cool down before you can use her passive again, the cool downs need to be the same for her passive to work right.

Pika3105 votes

Riot would rather nerf the Power Chord they themselves intentionally gave the shortest cooldown, as a means to make the others more inviting. Which doesn't work, because their cooldowns are still stupidly longer.

Riot made Staccato the most easily accessible. Tempo and Diminuendo get ignored for increased difficulty of use. Staccato gets nerfed again. RIOT LOGIC

AquariusGine5 votes

a little worried about the person responsible for this rework. this is a complete failure

It Is I Emoto10 votes

Well it's fearless, and they've admitted that they've ignored the feedback of the Sona mains and players who actually with it.

Direwolfiez5 votes

Would you mind posting a source? I'm tired of people saying that Fearless did a good job and listened to Sona players, and being unable to find any proof to the contrary.

Direwolfiez7 votes

I love you.

Rune Ocarina4 votes

Oh my god. Please tell me this guy is no longer allowed to rework champions or at best fired.

Pika3104 votes

His next project after Sona was reworking the jungle. Hence why most of his most recent posts pertain to jungle issues.

Meanie402 votes

So that's why the jungle is so crappy now...

Pika3106 votes

Who cares about him? He practically spit in our faces, then abandoned Sona to ruin the jungle too. Yes, the same person who ruined Sona also ruined the jungle. Seriously, why would we want someone so blatantly incompetent working for Riot? Everyone will be better off if he's finally fired.

1011001110003 votes

"If you wanna do high damage, if you have to get in there and deal it."

Tell that to casters and AP Nasus. :^)

Stars Shaper3 votes

As soon as ppl will stop using "unhealthy" as "I don't want to face it" maybe we can talk about what really is unhealthy.

Seviang2 votes

I definitely agree that Sona needs a rework. All her gameplay right now (besides her ult) is simply a numbers game without real counterplay. Either you have the numbers to out damage and/or out heal the enemy team or you don't. Either way you end up with a miserable laning experience for either the Sona or her opponents.

It Is I Emoto4 votes

Finally someone i can relate to! Pretty much this. Either Sona builds ap and does damage/heal alot or she does not and can't do anything. I mean, I already buy a relic shield on sona for better sustain at early game and it works much better than her heal alone.. Her heal might be a bit stronger at late game but thats it.

I remember how there were many threads about Critical strikes being pretty strong while its only luck most the time. Well, I kinda say that Sonas powerchord works as an critical strike, just she can charge one, what has to do more with experience and how much ap you've bought on her. add a lich bane on it and she becomes incredible annoying to deal with and as player you have to be constantly in range to do damage, yet the powerchord-poke style does force her as well to waste all her mana to charge chords, instead of using them for their actual purpose. Yeah you can do alot of damage with an lich bane if you do the pattern (cast + aa + cast + aa + cast + powerchord), but shes spamming her abilities then for damage and not for actual gameplay, and this does suck. Yeah she was extremly passive before the rework, but it was much better than her current kit..

Vesarixx2 votes

Remade this thread a while ago with a suggestion to fix this, still no response from Riot, Iève been trying to get a response from them on it since july.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/abXPdY0E-riot-an-open-letter-on-fostering-a-healthy-playstyle-for-sona

pleep2 votes

Endless complaints. its nausiating

Direwolfiez8 votes

Maybe people are continuing to complain because the rework was terrible, and Riot refuses to revert pretty much any changes they made to her kit? People are still complaining about Cass; how is this any different?

Celeste Benal1 votes

Since Sona has been free for the last few days, I gave her a shot. As usual, first game is shit-tier because never played before. Getting used to skills. But after that, she was ridiculously easy to play. Just stay safe, mash QWE-AA-R, win. Actual order of combo varies depending on what effect you want. I found the slow to be pretty useful. imo she really doesn't require any skill to use successfully.

It Is I Emoto5 votes

the problem is, if you're staying safe, you're not helping your team with your short ranged auras. If you go in range of your allies, she gets easily bursted down. Her auras might have suited a tanky champion who can actually sustain through that, but for sonas squishyness.. it doesn't suit her. You can of course stay out of range from enemies, but you're neither helping your team if you're out of range of the combat, while she can't be any useful if she builds actually tanky, since her base stats are pretty low, and if you build ap, you have to stay extremly far away from combat, wich is also shit.

Taryn9 votes

My favorite argument that people use when they are in favor of destroying Sona is that she's easy to pick up and play.

As if any of the champions on the roster are actually challenging to play for anyone who has played League for more than an hour.

Ease of use is not a reason to make a character useless. In fact, since her abilities are so basic and static it should be that much easier for players to counter her. But no, instead they complain.

Luner Hunter3 votes

imo she really doesn't require any skill to use successfully.

then can we get lee sin, zed, and fizz nerfed to shit because none of them "require any skill to use successfully"

Pika3102 votes

Meanwhile...

item 3070 Ahri item 3070

anding1 votes

Petition to Riot to return Sona's mid-season 2 numbers. that was when Sona was the strongest, and also the most fun

It Is I Emoto1 votes

Wasn't there in season 2, but i think she was great there :(

Luner Hunter2 votes

season 3 numbers AND her kit were much better!

DanofDemacia1 votes

Ok im not saying sona is heathy right now cuz shes not but what i am saying is the fact that she is weak on her own is not an argument because all suports are. Also the argument has to be next to her allies is for all supports.. Some more than others. Like lulu is always next to her allies she has no range on anything shes always in the midst of the the fighting

Direwolfiez7 votes

A lot of people are angry that she's getting more post-rework nerfs, since, again, a lot of people pointed out just how flawed the rework would be (focusing more on her Q and on-hit damage than her other spells); it's pretty hard to outplay someone when all of their damage is based on AP-modified AAs, unless you're Yasuo or Braum. She was strengthened in all the wrong ways, and then Riot nerfed her remaining strengths, which added insult to injury. They were basically saying, "Yeah...we screwed up, but we're not changing her back to the way she was. Enjoy the new Sona! Oh, by the way, the kit we JUST made is flawed, so here's some more nerfs. Still not gonna change it!"

That was one of the shittiest reworks I've ever seen (barely saw Olaf, so I can't comment on his, but it's basically common knowledge that it was awful). I mean, undocumented nerfs? What the fuck.

EverTokki1 votes

At least, we dealt with the aura-method change rework. However, they've cut her too bad. Like seriously, where's her burst damage that she had with her staccato? Yes, she can be annoying as she has some range(which also has been nerfed a long time ago) and some damage(that was nerfed) and her spamming, (which the cooldown was nerfed, too), but seriously, Riot has gone over the line with Sona. It's like they're saying, hey, don't play sona if you can't deal with it. She's op, and so we're cutting her. Aaaand of course, we're choosing out the great Sona players from the good.

See, she has 'some' damage she can deal. However, I want to tell Riot that Nami's characteristics are her cc, Thresh/Blitz's are pulling enemies, Leona's is cc/gap closing, and Lulu's is defending our adc from the opponent. They all have differnet mechanics, and I'd like to say that Sona's were the q, and healing her adc. At least make her heal ratio like Nami's, or raise her q ratio back up.

We don't want much. Seriously, the only thing we need is a Sona that can 1. heal her bot partner well 2. has some burst damage 3. is not that that squishy. Before the rework, I remember getting hit by the tower to save my tower-diving adc. It wasn't that bad. Nowadays? God no, why'd I do that?

I don't even want the old Sona back, it's just that the recent nerfs have crushed me. I really didn't want to complain about this since I thought Sona became more 'neutral' (a champ without any pros or cons, well) but I'm losing my will to support since she's been nerfed.

pls rito.

Pika3104 votes

I really didn't want to complain about this

Such is the downfall of misplaced optimism. Many players muted their voices thinking, "Riot must know what they're doing, things can't get any worse, only better." Then she gets nerfed again... and again... and again.

Each time, I see more and more players finally lose faith in Riot. It's not even like there haven't been complaints from the beginning. There were A LOT, especially on PBE. The problem is that Riot's hatred of Sona is too deep-seated for them to ever let her be playable again.

FantasySniper1 votes

I could give you a well-thought out and well-explained post about why you're wrong to think those things about Sona, but everyone else here is only going to ignore me anyways and I will get downvoted no matter how incompetent their argument becomes. (But, ah, such is the circle-jerk)

I want them to reduce focus on her [Q] by any means necessary, beef out her [W] (with something like your idea forever ago, remember that?), and do this to her auras: Allies staying within the aura have its effect's duration refreshed every 0.2 seconds

^ Staying inside the aura means not letting a tagged effect run out as quickly, it does not mean it is replaced every time it is used. It will let sticking near your teammates be more rewarding and will more easily forgive a mistake in timing.

It Is I Emoto2 votes

What would be your explenaitions that I am wrong?

-You can't change it, Sona is squishy, there is no way around it. -Her current auras do not do any benifiting effects until you'll build tons of ap -Her base stats on her spells are so bad that she needs to build more ap to be more noticeable -Her ultimate cost goes still over 100 mana, wich means sona can't have her ult at the right time up. -and -so -much -more

I remember my suggestions of my W design, putting the % of missing health increase from her heal to her shield, making it more beef and more useful for whole team, except it's right now, yet feearless or any other rioter did not state their mind about this idea and many others. I feel like fearless did stop to think about Sona and just works on the jungle, and probably ruining it as much as he did with Sona.

If the aura buff would always refresh, that would be of course cool, but that won't happen according to riots logic, but also, it could be pretty much abused by sona, because she would benifit the most out of them, since she's always in the auras.

FantasySniper1 votes
  • She does not have to constantly be in range, she was called a "tagging" champion for a reason, and it's not difficult to strategically position in a way that you are unpunishable.
  • She's not that squishy, considering Zyra and Nami are realistically left with way less protection than Sona, and she's one of the most punishing supports to try and focus.
  • She does not need AP. CDR and mana regen are more powerful stats on her.
  • Ardent Censer, Aegis of the Legion, and Spellthief's Edge
  • Of course she's weak alone, she's a support. But even for a support, she's able to handle herself pretty well.
  • She has her slow, which is actually pretty decent considering it will immediately be coupled with a huge MS boost for you and your ally.
  • You don't stay if you're oom, and why are you even oom in the first place? Only one in every three games do I mess up the opportunity for an ult because I ran out, which is mostly due to how long the fight had been going on and it almost always occurs near a contested dragon because I don't have enough Mp5 yet.

The jungle is getting pretty good, Hec, Shyv, Naut, and Sej have all gotten buffs, and Warwick was finally hit after his long period of domination. It's considerably healthier than it was before, with features available for every type of jungler. Whereas before, it was all about how well someone could gank right after picking up their second buff, junglers now contribute to vision and can use an offensive summoner spell without having to give up flash/tele/ghost.

It Is I Emoto2 votes
  • 350 range are great for tagging right?
  • ??????????? Zyra has a Snare, and a knockup, Nami has a stun, a slow she can cast whenever she will, and a knockup. Sona has only her ultimate and thats it.
  • Did you check Sonas abilities? Her Q would do at max rank, with max crescendo max 300 damage, + 192 damage if you have an powerchord without ability power. Don't forgtet that Magic resist is also a thing
  • Ardent Censer only benifits for 1~2 person of her team. a complete waste of money and stats. Legion is better, Though don't help her much without any ap, and spellthiefs edge is an great item for sona, also boosting her early game damage if you don't know.
  • So, if she gets chased, she has to stop, do an auto attack with 0.6 attack speed, and then run again, and that's extremly risky for Sona players, because that slow is done for slowing down enemies she's chasing, not for defending herself.
  • If you don't noticed, the current mana system gave a huge nerf to alot of mana based champions. Sona as one with the 200 mana ults, has to suffer the most by it right now.

I honestly think, the invention of the new jungle items did ruin it. I never thought that Warwick was a bother, till they invented the True damage onhit smite, wich did scale extremly well on Warwick. It was not himself, but an item that could be easily abused by him. And you know what? The same thing is happening with Sona, since she has gotten alot of on-hit buffs from her Q.

FantasySniper1 votes
  • It really is if you know how to position yourself and actually build items that help you survive.
  • A snare doesn't stop them from attacking you, and anyone worth their rank knows to kill her plants. Nami has a highly telegraphed and hard to land stun, and a slow that is made worthless by her attack+cast animation. Sona only needs one hit for her slow, and it has an AA reset+speed boost attached, then she has a heal+shield that prevents her from dying in general.
  • I do know her abilities, CDR increases her total damage output, as well as every other ability's output, way faster and for cheaper, especially since it lets her passive be up more often.
  • No, it benefits everyone, it just benefits some more than others. People pretend like auto attacks become obsolete for any non-AD champ past Lv6, but you use them anyways, because if you didn't, you'd be losing a lot of damage output and/or potential utility. That's also how you do next to 100% of your damage to structures (and wards), so it's only a boon no matter who it's used on. Aegis makes everything about [W] better, and can be built into an item with AP and push presence or more defenses for both her and her team.. I already knew about Spellthief's, it's why I put it down...
  • No, not really. Unless you don't know what you're doing, her passive effects are relatively easy to take advantage of, since there's next to no cast times, an AA reset, two other spells ready to peel with that will never be dodged, and preferably a teammate covering your back.
  • I haven't really noticed, no. Maybe it's just because I know what I'm doing with my builds, or maybe I'm good at backing at convenient moments, but I've already said that I rarely run into said issue.

Warwick was dominating the scene long before the jungle changes, but it just so happens that an item and new environment that was perfect for him pronounced his issues so much that it finally became obvious what had to be done. They hit AS based junglers in general, even if it was only Warwick that people noticed. It's getting healthier, so there is still a lot of room for improvement, and they're still doing working at it. Lich Bane is a problem on... Sona and (surprisingly) Lulu. Nope, definitely not the champions, no way or how it's just that Sona has some power that is proving hard to reduce, it has to be the item that proves to not be a problem for any others at all.

It Is I Emoto1 votes

bump.

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