Riot intentionally avoiding problematic threads?

Canastus·Sep 18, 2014·13 votes·1,828 views

If you take a look at the 'best' rated topics over at the Gameplay & Balance board, you should realize that Riot takes responding to those threads very seriously.

And yet they've neglected responding to any of the threads related to the Cassiopeia rework, a topic which is very much relevant at this time and filled with lots of controversy. I'd like to know why Riot hasn't responded to any of the complaints yet.

This is a huge discussion and simply pretending it doesn't exist is a very questionable move.

24 Comments

ValyrianBladeSep 18, 201410 votes

When something new happens a game company typically gives it time for players to "get used to it." maybe the change isn't so bad itself, it's just that the players complaining are opposed to change. Maybe many like it and aren't complaining about it. so it makes sense to wait for a bit to get a better perspective and make sure you make the right decision.

CanastusSep 18, 20148 votes

It's one thing to wait for results but it's a whole different one if you ignore every single concern about the rework and simply throw it onto the live servers without any regard for its inherent problems just to confirm everyone's fears.

It's been nine days since the rework was released and Cassiopeia's officially the worst champion in the game now. Godawful win-rate (35% on ranked, 38% in overall) and a pickrate which has been drastically reduced since then.

This rework has failed on every single level (reduced popularity, heavily nerfed viability) and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. We need buffs, desperately.

SolumindraSep 18, 20147 votes

We don't need buffs, we need them to take this rework back.

Fury and EmperorSep 28, 20141 votes

[deleted]

SolumindraOct 7, 20141 votes

Absolutely not true. And current Cass is more exploitable with BoL anyway.

333lomSep 22, 20142 votes

The same thing is happening with Viktor's rework. I agree, the rework for Cass weakened her.

Deep Terror NamiSep 18, 20147 votes

Just because some people want a buff or nerf doesn't mean Riot needs to jump up and rescind or change a new rework. You not liking the new Cassiopeia is not "problematic". Maybe none of them have responded yet because it would only come down to; Rioter: "If we attempted to cater to everybody's desires for champion changes, we'd never get anything done because making people like every champion is an impossibility. How about you respect all the hard work we put into her and try it for a while, and if you don't like it, just don't play her?" But that would be rude, so they opt to not be baited by those threads.

MrSc0ttySep 18, 20145 votes

It has been nine days since her release, her base mechanics haven't changed-it follows that those who played her before should be able to play her now.

She has a 39% winrate. A pick rate lowered by over half. She is currently the single worst champ in the game. And this is by far the biggest rework failure that has ever been implemented, and people raised all these concerns while it was on PBE.

They didn't listen, and now they're planning on ignoring everyone?

LordRidlySep 18, 20142 votes

Her late game power isnt bad though, to be QUITE honest. Her early game still sucks and her CDR situation is awkward, but stack a tear and get rabadons and build straight AP, and end up with well over 1000 AP. Now, is that a reliable plan? No. But Azir operates the same way (late game monster), with one exception: He has a way to knock down towers if given the slightest chance. That is ALL Cass needs. An early game compensation, either in power or utility. (And possible a nerf the CDR her passive gives, with her mana situation Athene's is a requirement.)

SolumindraSep 18, 20142 votes

Giving her 1000AP doesn't matter when all of her scaling is cut by more than half.....Just because a number is big doesn't make it good.

Hyrum GraffSep 19, 20142 votes

60% ap with resets. That's more dps than most marksmen can put out.

SolumindraSep 22, 20142 votes

Not when you take into acct that she has no range on that move and no kiting ability while sustaining it's use. A marksman can kite with move, AA, move. Cass doesn't have that luxury since the range on twin fang is abysmal and isn't even equal to a marksmans damage until 1000AP. Come on, you can't be that silly to think that is an acceptable trade, AT ALL.

Hyrum GraffSep 22, 20141 votes

Don't her q and e give her some kiting ability? Q is a ms boost and w is a slow.

######(Edit: I originally misstated that her e was the slow, rather than the w).

She also has her ult, which most marksmen don't (the exception being someone like varus, who doesn't have any mobility to speak of).

SolumindraSep 22, 20142 votes

Your post tells me how much you actually play Cass, so I know all you are doing is theory.

Her E does not slow. Her E is Twin Fang, which is bugged right now anyway.

W slows, However, W is a long cooldown now.

Her Q does give MS, IF it hits, and its EASY to dodge. Because of an even longer casting delay post rework.

Please don't defend this rework if you don't and have never, played Cass to a great extent.

Hyrum GraffSep 22, 20141 votes

True, I haven't played Cass much, I meant her w. I've edited my above post to reflect that.

However, when I did play Cass, I found her q relatively easy to hit when kiting (but maybe my enemies just weren't that good those couple games). Rylai's also lets you permaslow, and makes you a little tankier.

The reason I don't play Cass (or Karthus, or Urgot) much is because I'm terrible at champs with auto-smartcast. I <3 my range indicators.

SolumindraSep 22, 20142 votes

My point is , if you didn't play her pre-rework, you don't really know how the changes effect her from a gameplay POV.

If you don't play her post rework you don't know how the changes effect her in that way. Like if you get camped. Which is easy too do against her now, and deny her stacks.

The rework created more problems than it fixed, it CREATED problems to get her that passive. They nerfed her across the board and called it a "buff"

There are 160 pages of why as Cass players we are upset here. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4851396&page=158

Hyrum GraffSep 19, 20141 votes

Get a tear and a roa and I can't see athenes being a requirement on anybody but AP kogmaw. And she has her mana-restoring when she cses with e.

DaenSep 18, 20143 votes

There has been a pretty huge thread discussing the Cassiopeia rework on General Discussion with one of the designers that helped make it happen. They aren't ignoring us, it's just not feasible for them to spend copious amounts of time addressing the same concern in multiple places.

CanastusSep 18, 20143 votes

I'm already aware of it, the problem however is the total absence of Riot Stashu who's supposed to stay in touch with us. We already filled over 100 pages with feedback and only very few posts were replied to, people are getting really upset over this. Stashu constantly picks posts which seem to embrace the rework whereas negative feedback remains ignored.

Fact is, there are still many issues which were left unadressed, so why shouldn't anyone else from the staff be allowed to talk about the rework with us? If Stashu isn't going to take us serious, who will?

DaenSep 18, 20143 votes

total absence of Riot Stashu who's supposed to stay in touch with us

Keep in mind, his communication is not a god-given right for the playerbase. He is taking it upon himself to answer questions and discuss things he feels he can offer constructive discussion on, and his most recent comment in that thread directly addresses quite a few of the concerns players had in that thread.

We already filled over 100 pages with feedback and only very few posts were replied to

Stashu is one person. The forum community is thousands. It's not surprising he only replied to a comparitive few of the posts.

Stashu constantly picks posts which seem to embrace the rework whereas negative feedback remains ignored

Feedback along the lines of "this rework is completely the wrong direction" is really difficult to address in a way that actually promotes healthy discussion. Even if it's well-written and "correct", it's very possible for there to be bias in either direction. This is especially true for recent changes before they have time to settle, because we as humans dislike change.

why shouldn't anyone else from the staff be allowed to talk about the rework with us?

It's less a matter of who is "allowed" to talk about something; it's about who is qualified to discuss it. If Stashu was the lead on this project, it makes sense that he addresses it.

If Stashu isn't going to take us serious, who will?

Really? He doesn't address a certain concern and it comes down to him not taking the community seriously? He posted on that thread 34 times, I think it's safe to say he's taking the community seriously.

CanastusSep 18, 20143 votes

The only way he's ever going to regain our respect is by ACTIONS. He hasn't attempted a single time to buff her on the PBE since his last post, nor did he tell us about his progress on the matter. If he's the one responsible for this mess, he better fix it.

I refuse to deal with this heavily gutted Cassiopeia for one more patch. Something needs to happen in 4.17 and so far nothing points to that possibility. This is downright unacceptable for anyone who's used to maining this champion.

DaenSep 18, 20143 votes

He hasn't attempted a single time to buff her on the PBE since his last post

His last post was two days ago...do you really expect him to already have consulted with the balance team, run tests, code the changes into the game, etc. in such a short period of time? That's pretty unreasonable.

nor did he tell us about his progress on the matter

Again, it has only been two days. Do you require hourly updates in order to feel as though you can build trust?

I refuse to deal with this heavily gutted Cassiopeia for one more patch

Then take a break. Game design is not an instant process, and I don't want you to become horribly disappointed if Riot isn't able to keep up with your (frankly, outrageous) time schedule.

SolumindraSep 22, 20142 votes

If they don't want me to be upset with a frankly outrageous time schedule they shouldn't make a post asking how we feel about the changes 16 hours before it goes live. They want to push out a rework 16hrs after asking, I expect buffs or massive changes within a week after they didn't listen to us.

DaenSep 22, 20142 votes

This I agree with. Their recent trend towards making decisions then asking the community about our thoughts on those decisions is concerning. The development cycle used to be something like this:

Feedback > Brainstorm > Refine > Feedback > Refine > Release

It seems that we're trending towards something like this:

Feedback > Brainstorm > Refine > Release > Feedback > Refine

This is kind of worrying, because it means that we may only be participating in the initial "here is what we think is an issue" part of the process, and then not really knowing what's going on until release.