Boards›Boards Feedback

An Open Letter to the Riot. With Pictures!

Silverling·6/21/2015, 8:59:29 AM·240 votes·20,630 views

http://i.imgur.com/Q2dTPa5.jpg

I'm Silver and I have been a forum lurker for probably around five years now. I started off spending most of my time in the magical land known as General Discussion, then over time switched to the Lore forums when those opened up, and nowadays I spend most of my time in that estranged land known as "Roleplaying".

http://i.imgur.com/4B4JGF1.jpg

I understand the negative connotations that come with those that come from this land, but I am not here to stir up trouble or name names, or whatever one might think some one of my kind might do. I am here to discuss the recent revelation as to what you, the Riot Boards team(and some parts to Riot in general), have decided what you believe is best for the fate of the forums.

Though there is one thing I wish to make clear before I begin...

http://i.imgur.com/6xtf7KV.jpg

Riot, my friend, I have been with you since those fantastical times of Beta, and I have to say it has been an adventure! Over the many years you have existed I have created fond memories and friends. I remember the days when you could get close to 80% dodge on Jax(and did play him frequently), when you could gain both blue and red buff at the same time as jungle Shaco, and who could forget at how awful Twisted Treeline used to be?

Ahh yes... Those were great times, but the world of League of Legends has changed greatly over the years. Some of these were for the better, and others? Not so much. And while I still hold a special place in my heart with you, I can't help but feel that there is a growing gap between us, a disconnect that has been progressively building up over the years.

http://i.imgur.com/rBQzbjf.jpg

You see, Riot, there was once a time when I could smile and happily say "I like this game! Its got cool characters and the team that makes it listens to the community!" But now? I can't honestly say this to people. Some of the changes you have made in the past year and a half are ones that, from what I have seen, left a rather sour taste in the mouths of the community... And despite the many complaints from them, you went ahead with the changes anyways.

http://i.imgur.com/Cduc4BY.jpg

But I suppose it makes sense. Back when you first started, you were a small, independent company. You needed to do more in order to please your players, you had to give them a reason as to why they would want to chose this game over the other MOBAs that were popping up out there. And now that you are now technically on the top of the ladder? You don't have to try so much. A loss here, a loss there, it doesn't matter. You still have hundreds upon thousands other players willing to give their fair share to you. After all, you have a vision for the game and those who play it won't understand it all just yet...

http://i.imgur.com/VXetyWq.jpg

Unfortunately, this behavior is only going to hurt you in the long run. Continuing to ignore the pleas of your community will only cause them to grow weary of you. Those one or two unsatisfied players will turn into several thousand who are leaving to brighter shores located within other games, and you will be left within the darkness wondering where within your lifetime you went wrong.

You will likely say to me "But Silver! We are not guilty of this! We always take our players into consideration!" but that would be a flat out lie from your part. The biggest and most recent change that has occurred despite the community outburst would be... The great Forum migration. At gunpoint.

http://i.imgur.com/7Bu6Ici.jpg

I cannot think of a person who legitimately wanted the Reddit style layout of the boards. I, myself, did not want the Reddit style layout. Why? Because if I wanted to go to LoL themed Reddit, I would have gone to the LoL reddit subboard. I can understand wanting to write up a new build for the old forums due to how outdated the coding was for it, but there were better formats that you could have done, ones that the community liked better, ones that they didn't complain about as much. But despite the community outrage, you did it anyways. You forced the change, shut down the old, more preferred boards, and forced everyone to come here. After all, if they don't have a choice but to move, then where else would they go?

http://i.imgur.com/NWIusnJ.jpg

And now? You desire to create a change in the forums that is largely disliked once again. You made a post stating that you want to show more forum activity(Surprise? Activity drop due to an unwanted change) and then state the merging of topics and dissolving one of the larger subsections of the boards.... Then promptly acting like we are supposed to like this change?

http://i.imgur.com/FPspHOh.jpg

Naturally, this is being received with negativity, and yet from what I can see? Its going in the same direction as the Great Forum Migration. Mass complaints, followed by mass ignoring, then followed by more unwanted change, which causes more dissatisfied players. Its understanding that you want to alter the way the forums are organized, but there are so many better ways to go about this, ways that would be far more satisfying to us as a community.

Riot... Dear Riot, you are slowly but surely destroying your own community through poor decisions and tactics, and we, the community, are trying so hard to reach out to you.

http://i.imgur.com/Z2VgyW6.jpg

And yet... Its becoming increasingly obvious that you simply do not care anymore.

http://i.imgur.com/9jDEB7G.jpg

....

Quite frankly, Riot? I'm not even sure if anything I draw or say will even reach you, or even if you will listen anymore. But if there is something that you will take from this? Please let it be this:

  • There is nothing wrong with taking good advice from your players and fans and integrating it within your system.

  • And there is nothing wrong with you recognizing the mistakes you have made in the past and trying your best to fix them.

Riot, I want to like you, and I want to continue to have faith in you... But I'm finding it increasingly hard to hold onto that faith based on your most recent actions. What you do at this point in the end is your choice, and your choice alone, but the consequences that come with that, whether good or bad, depends on how much you plan to listen to us.

Whether you do or do not in the end... Remember that we, as a community, have it within our best interest to help. Most of the time.

  • Silverling

211 Comments

FilFire6/21/2015, 12:15:23 PM42 votes

Really? I thought both of those just gave her brownie points.

Anyway, yeah, this post pretty much sums it up. I've only been here for three years or so, so I do not possess the same level of history as missus I-can-draw-whatever-I-want up there, but I'm still starting to see a pattern.

Riot employees always go on about how they take everything into consideration, and how they want to work together with the community.

But quite honestly they're starting to give the impression that they purely say that because if they were honest about what they think of our opinion we could just take what they say and show it to everybody to show them that Riot, after being a rather social company, does no longer care. They've got the playerbase, they've got the income. They can do whatever they want, because no matter how many people complain, there are still lots of players who don't even realize something is wrong and who keep playing, and keep giving Riot their money.

The perfect gamer for Riot these days is one who only pays attention to the game itself. That way they don't have to fake being interested in the gamer's opinion while they just do what they want.

I mean, even the board transition did not receive the sheer amount of resistance that this idea of merging all fora is receiving. I swear that I have yet to see a single person who was not employed by Riot Games who liked it. Every single comment on it has been negative.

RiotZwill6/22/2015, 7:16:09 PM27 votes

Hi Silverling,

First of, thank you for the time and effort you put into this communication. I appreciate and acknowledge your passion for the community and the time it takes to put together well thought out and clear communication.

To give a frame of reference for who I am; I'm the Player Relations Manger for North America. This means that the team I manage has a vested interest in our player to player and player to Rioter communications channels, Boards, reddit, and any other channels we may be developing strategy around.

ADillonMostDirty is a member of the same team. Additionally, we share responsibility for the management of the Boards as a NA Community space with the NA Player Support team (D'Artagnon, WookieeCookie, Keyru), who manage the moderation side of things.

I've been spending hours poring over all of the feedback we've received around our Boards organization post. We read every comment, each and every one, because we need to understand both the intent and the emotion behind these posts. The range of emotions gathered from the posts were varied; anger, fear, outrage, understanding. The one thing that everyone, no matter which camp you're in, should understand is this: All of these responses are valid.

As a member of this community, you have the right, some would say the imperative, to defend that which you hold near and dear to you, and the response to our desire to fundamentally change General Discussion into something different was not unexpected. We knew coming into this conversation that it would be a contentious and difficult one to have, but we feel it's an important discussion to have.

Personally, I want to apologize to you that our actions have made you feel alienated from Riot as a partner in this community. We can give all of the reasons we want to, but at the end of the day, we understand that you, as Players, want a relationship with Rioters that feels personal and intimate, as we had in the earlier days. Even though I only recently joined Riot (around 4 months ago), I share that desire and can assure you that the rest of the team does as well. One of the key "pillars" of the NA Player Relations team is to create more personal relationships between Rioters and the Players. A key example of our early efforts (and it is still very early in the process for a newly formed team) is the introduction of features like Meanwhile in Top Lane... and Between Two Turrets; regular Boards content designed to give insight into our thoughts and what we find interesting and to introduce you to more Rioters as human beings rather than a ubiquitous "Red Name".

Now to the meat of your post, and much of the feedback we've seen following last week's post...

We're in an interesting period for the Boards. The League Community as a whole is changing, maturing and evolving. When a community has been in existence for over five years you face challenges that aren't easy to answer. As the game matures, so does the community and it's needs. We want to be constantly changing and re-examining our preconceived notions about what is healthy for the community, what works, what used to work, and when change, while controversial, is warranted.

Then why fundamentally change a community that's been a part of the League Community since near day one?

There's no easy answer.

"But if Rioters posted in GD more it wouldn't be that way!" I don't disagree with this. The current state of GD is one that many Rioters don't feel safe or welcomed in. We can, and do, encourage Rioters to engage in the Boards all the time, but it's counter to our culture to force anyone to engage somewhere, especially where they're already reluctant to do so. I'm not saying this is the right response, but it's human nature to want to avoid uncomfortable situations. Thus the cycle becomes self fulfilling; Players are angry at Rioters for Rioters not talking to them in their safe space, Rioters experience manifestation of that anger thus causing them to shy away. Not everyone is built like me, able to jump into the proverbial frying pan (and then straight into the fryer ;)).

So why change GD?

Change. As you observed about the change over to the new Boards format, change can be both a constructive and a destructive force. We want to come into any change as informed as we possibly can, but we cannot shy away from a change that may have a very positive outcome, especially when it comes to the health of the Community.

Putting all of our cards on the table: we don't know exactly what will happen if we change GD. Experience with other communities I've been fortunate enough to work with has shown me that this change will benefit the community in the long run, but will result in turmoil in the immediate onset. These immediate pains will result in player discussions that are more focused and relevant to our shared passion of League and gamer culture. Even with that experience, I'm not 100% sure of the outcome, because each community is different.

Right now, emotions are running high. I completely get and empathize with that. Before getting into "the industry" I was the kid outside of the bakery, peering in at the goodies inside, fogging up the window. I will never forget that feeling because it motivates all of my actions. Right now, you may believe that you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what the end result will be. This certainty is fueled by passion, anger and fear that something important to you is being taken away. We understand that and have all felt the same way before. What I'm asking you all to do, just as you are asking us to consider your concerns and reaction, is to do everything you can to step outside of the emotion and consider how this potential change will impact the overall tone of the conversation on the Boards in the long term.

If you've read all the way to here: thank you.

I'm humbled by the outpouring of feedback and emotions as we discuss change and our community. I know it's not easy.

We have a meeting today to discuss the community response and will be following up with our additional thoughts in a new thread soon.

-Andy

Dextix LT6/21/2015, 2:06:20 PM20 votes

I think Riot has already shown how much they care about this community, by retconning all the LOL lore and still doing nothing to create new one which they promised to us.