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Some feedback from GD

Pryotra··2 votes·554 views

There has been quite a bit of feedback from GD in the announcement thread, but I thought I would move some of it here. Just so that you can see it seeing as to us it appear the grand majority of rioters has abandoned the old forum.

On the announcement thread stickied in GD alone I see the following:

  1. LOL, reddit
  2. We already have the most popular subreddit outside /gonewild, and it serves its purpose better than here.
  3. Hard to navigate
  4. Very, very messy/its kinda just piled in the middle
  5. RP forums are screwed
  6. Painful to look at
  7. Reddit sans moderators is basically 4chan. considering that Riot doesn't really use moderators...
  8. Rediit favors circlejerking/quickest witty joke, not discussion
  9. Default navigation is dumb, and the Recent sort is pants on head tarded. No really good way to sort
  10. refreshing/loading more on a page here resorts all things. Impossible to follow
  11. Riot has already abandoned the forum, and doesn't really respond to feed back over there
  12. Why do we HAVE to be reddit? what feature about it makes it BETTER for vbulletin for discussion? We have yet to have this answered

If a red could come in and address some of these, or even be awesome and actually respond to that thread, it would be appreciated.

6 Comments

RiotKrylhos4 votes

Hey Pryotra - these are some great points that you've collected here, and I'll do my best to address them.

I think that r/leagueoflegends on Reddit is a great community, and in no way are we trying to affect it negatively or take away from the active involvement within any subreddit.

We do feel like there's something to threaded conversations, and surfacing quality and relevant content to you. Finding quality/relevant content, making effective use of your time, and giving you the tools to contribute great content are the fundamental goals of this team. This project is in very early phases and we're looking forward to evolving based on feedback and working together, as a community.

While Reddit does tend to sometimes favor a quick wit, there are also quality discussions that can evolve, and with community guidance from constructive feedback, I feel like we can evolve solutions to encourage quality discussions, but still allow for quick witted humor to have a place (because come on...people can be pretty funny)

I agree, there are improvements we can make to the navigation and overall discovery experience.

We also have some ideas that we're bouncing around on great ways to make sure RP forums can thrive.

I feel like the "piled in the middle" feeling will go away when we address a responsive layout with the new website design. I agree, it feels a bit cramped at the moment.

There are some really cool ways we can go to address the need to refresh a page to keep up with a very active discussion, and we're willing to experiment with different ideas to make it awesome.

I'm really sorry that you feel like Riot doesn't respond to feedback provided in the vBulletin forums . Aside from the engagement I can see in the Dev Tracker, I also see Rioters checking out the forums all the time as I walk around the office, so I know we're there! Is there anything in particular that you feel is not being listened to? On a side note, one of the benefits of this new platform is that it can raise visibility on quality community discussed issues.

Your items may not have been addressed line-by-line, but I tried to capture them all and portray our thoughts behind the decisions we made as we strive to evolve this system with you, based on solid feedback.

Pryotra1 votes

Just saw this before heading to bed. Reading through it, it seems like you actually read it. Thanks.

1 thing in particular that reds seem to avoid is the color scheme/general look. I'm not exaggerating when I say it hurts to look at these forums, I really do feel the strain and get headaches. Time of day nor surrounding lights doesn't seem to matter either. If I had a better camera, I would give you before and after pics of my eyes, after about 15 minutes of exposure they are visibly bloodshot. coupled with the text formatting choices, makes my eyes want to shrivel up. It's even worse here than on GD, where the font seems even smaller. after I switch tabs to, for example, youtube the pain immediately begins subsiding.

Also, in a general note, the severe drop off in redposts has been noticed in GD. The general idea is that the reds have abandoned that forum for this one. Poking your head in every once in a while does wonders, and you might be able to find alot of feedback from those who are the most offended in order to make this better.

2 other points that really seem ignored are that not everyone likes reddits formatting, and alot of people don't see why we need this. The "easier to find content" reasoning is pretty vague, especially considering alot of us have no problem in the current forums. Taking into consideration that the sorts you have on this beta currently are about as smart as my toaster, and your going to need to really explain this. Most people wouldn't mind this place so long as the classic forums remain and are used, but being a realist, you guys won't keep both forever. Your mods have a hard enough time with 1 forum, 2 would break their back.

Last thing before I head off to bed, 6th grade webmastering class gave me a lesson to pass on. If your site needs a manual for its users to master it, chances are the system needs help. Sites should be intuitive, not something you have to learn how to use. I am, of course, referencing the post formatting. Putting it bluntly, it stinks worse than my socks.

RiotKrylhos3 votes

Of course I read it! I'm extremely passionate about solving these problems together to help bring awesomez to our community.

I completely agree - there's a lot of room to grow with font and formatting to improve readability (what's really nice is how quickly we'll be able to make these changes and deliver them to you, gather feedback and make more improvements)

I would like to challenge the idea that a lot of people don't have a problem finding quality content on the vBulletin forums. I feel like a lot of behavior training has occurred to us over time, training to ignore things that our bran consciously or subconsciously sees as irrelevant. It happens all the time without thought. Also - there's a trained behavior of making use of browser bookmarks or other outside tools to keep up on old threads. Bumping wars can cause a lot of white noise, and with most posts going into GD (as everyone wants to be seen), it gets cluttered very quickly.

What we have implemented currently is a base foundation (of which many evolutions and directions are possible). We definitely have a long way to go. We would really like to explore a variety of solutions together (with you as the community shaping the direction based on feedback).

Good things happen instantly, great things take time.

Re: 6th grade web class / formatting guide. Sites should definitely be intuitive. One great thing about Markdown is that it was designed based on human intuition of how we write. Over time, there will be enhancements to formatting and the submission process. Intuition, and ease of use without requiring explanation are definitely things we keep in mind. At the same time, not all of the cool nuances can be discovered through intuition, especially when we get into a deeper integration of including LoL game content within posts.

Lastly, clean socks is important to healthy feet. Here's what I use to help keep my feet fresh: http://imgur.com/uSpsAfa

Pryotra2 votes

I personally feel that the black backdrop with near white content-wrapper is terrible, as a start. The old forums used a yellow parchment background which was much easier on the eyes. Think warm colors. Cool is ok, but only if you do something a bit more radical like darker background with brighter text colors.

As I've continued to use these forums, and consequently grow more accustomed to them, I still feel like making hot the default sort for newcomers is wrong, but at the same time recent REALLY needs to factor replies. I would feel much better if there was a sort option that would do that, as that just feels better to me. I want to go to the most recent post, whether that is a reply or new topic.

Hot could go on the side bar right underneath sub-communities, and you could just list the top five. Same with the newest created topics to give them visibility. Of course, keeping the side bar means you will need to allow for wider monitors to take advantage of their screen real estate, but I saw that fix is en route.

As for 3rd party stuff, riot has seemed to metaphrically straddle the fence on the issue. While some community made things are allowed, like lolreplay currently, things like FEK seem shunned. I get having a stance, but honestly this one is murky. FEK wouldn't have a reason to exist if the current forums addressed any of the concerns FEK does. I know that rioters dislikes mentioning FEK, but where exactly is the line on 3rd party stuff?

As for bookmarks and keepng up with older threads specifically, I know vbulletin has a follow thread function. Bookmarks and what have you are only used when there is no alternative, or the particular user prefers said method. The Former changes based on available features, while the later isn't likely to change at all unless your feature is TRULY more convenient than the method you compete against. Only reason I bookmark threads and replies on the vbulletin side is because google does a better job searching your forums than the forum search does, but has a pretty specific syntax and still takes advanced google skills to find what I want.

As for intuitiveness, I find that lists specifically don't feel intuitive to make. 2 spaces then enter? Even notepad handles it better.

I get that making something like this takes time, and quite a lot of it. If everything here turns out way better than competitors like vbulletin and reddit, would you release a version as open source for new upstart forum makers? Part of the reason vbulletin is so popular is that just about anyone can make a vbulletin board, so there is little learning required. If whatever this mash of influences becomes was more widespread, I doubt you would find as much resistance in the future to the unfamiliar layout.

Re:Socks - I personally nuke them and and my shoes once a week in baking soda. After you get past the white powder, it's quite nice. However, whatever solution I use has to be cheap. I consider it a side effect of really sweaty feet.

Kajika912 votes

Well im no red but still i can answer some points :

2.Reddit thread -> somme suggestions then vids, meme, picutre, news, musics ONLY, yeah amazing

3.hard to navigate when you're not used to, but this is just biased becasue it's unfamiliar to you (and prolly indeed to the many people). Should we never move foward because changes seem unfamiliar?

4.GD seeems wayyyy mor messy to me (random topic at front page cos anyone can bump them or just post weid messages. Also 99% of the time I see no intersting discussion comming out and staying at front page, the pace is just too fast.

5.OLD STYLE FORUM SHOULD NEVER BE REMOVED... imo. New players thread and technical issues also shouldnt belong here as they got no visibility at all here. Just my thoughts.

6.I don't find it painfull at all but I fully understand it can be, so I agree but I'm sure this is not inherent to the format.

7.Reddit mods aren't doing a great work in my opinion, just see the reddit discussions level... and see point 8.

8.For now I see a great discussion about dominion at front page then a discussion about this forum style, then 2 nice suggestions then a report for lagging servers and a good art topic about Jurassic/Scuba Quinn and Valor [Art]... definitively good forums imo.

9.Agree, 100%

10.Agree again (as point 9 this is not inherent to the style and can be improve)

11.Rioters very active here for now, and as dicsussions are for now way better all is good for me.

12.For now this is a nice step imo, if there are even better format... well I' following on this point too.

Pryotra1 votes

Just wanted to reply to #3 on your list. I keep seeing this, and I love the assumption that I haven't. I have, it's still a problem. Navigating to a certain post that isn't your own is a nightmare, especially when you haven't ever posted, and it isn't upvoted to the high heavens.

I admired Aaron Swartz, and the idea behind his co-creation. That doesn't mean I automatically am in love with the layout.

Also @5, they have mentioned it might happen. Read the GD post, it's currently stickied.

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