So... where are the "levers of balance" on bard?

Pryotra·3/12/2015, 7:11:31 AM·14 votes·11,509 views

I'm going to be plain here: I don't think Bard is Balanceable.

Now, hear me out. I'm not talking about power levels here. I'm saying that bard can't be effectively balanced. He may end up being OP, or UP, but either way, I don't think there is much Riot can do to change that once released. Bard is incredibly low damage. That said, he seems to be the definition of utility. I don't see any "levers" you can pull if bard is either underwhelming or overwhelming.

BUT PRYO! YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN HIM! WHAT IF HE ENDS UP BEING BALANCED?

Well, that would be great! Except... what about power creep? What happens if all the other support/utility champions get nerfed? Balance is not a static thing in this game, especially for champs. If some item/jungle change makes him OP, then what? What happens a year or more down the road when he is getting outclassed by everyone due to not really being able to be meaningfully buffed?

I don't think he is balanceable, as there doesn't appear to be any "levers of balance" in his kit.

28 Comments

RiotMeddler3/12/2015, 8:00:14 AM38 votes

Good question. Lever identification's a big part of the balancing/game health assessment process for a new champion. In Bard's case one of the key reasons he's got a passive with so many different effects is that it gives us a lot of control over his tuning by game time, which is particularly useful given the lack of damage otherwise on his kit.

Giant list of the main balancing levers we see for Bard below. This is just from memory, so there are almost certainly a few important ones I'm missing however. Which particular levers it's appropriate to use will depend heavily on what sort of problems Bard has, whether that's excessive strength at certain points in the game, lack of counterplay, lack of sufficient reward for skilled play, inability to roam sufficiently or whatever.

Passive:

  • Chime spawn rate, XP and mana given, spawn locations (with potential variation over the course of the game), speed boost duration/speed, lifespan
  • Meep damage, slow, AOE, max number, respawn rate
  • Upgrade effects, order, number of chimes required per upgrade

Q

  • Cooldown
  • Stun duration
  • Damage, AP ratio
  • Mana cost (mainly relevant early)
  • Missile width, speed, range, punchthrough range
  • Diminished effect for one target (if needed)
  • Modification of what qualifies as second target for stun purposes (all enemy units? Champs only? Terrain or not?)
  • Slow duration, strength

W

  • Healing base, growth, growth rate, AP ratio
  • Mana cost
  • Cooldown
  • Shrine max number, lifespan, bonus for being stomped
  • Shine lifespan (if needed)
  • Speed boost duration, amount, decay rate

E

  • Cooldown
  • Strength of speed boost for allies
  • Max range (if needed)
  • Ability to be used along the edge of the map terrain in some spots to travel in lane or not
  • Visibility to enemies, amount of vision granted to allies or enemies while using the tunnel (how much of a surprise should people coming through a tunnel be? How much vision of the destination should you have when using an enemy Bard's tunnel?)

R

  • Cooldown
  • Delay till impact
  • Duration of warning visual effect given to allies versus enemies
  • Cast range
  • Radius on impact
  • Stasis duration
  • Type of target affected (could remove towers or epic monsters if unforseen problems)

Plus base stats of course. Most of the above can also be tuned by spell rank too, depending on when in the game problems arise.

There are also some minor levers as well that aren't likely to be as relevant (W cast range, or E mana cost for example) but could be used if the appropriate issue crops up (e.g. if Bard has too little or too much early mobility E mana cost might be a useful tuning point, unlikely to be significant otherwise though).

Raptamei3/12/2015, 7:19:32 AM3 votes

That's Riot's problem, not yours. They can always veigar him.

Affinity23/12/2015, 2:23:04 PM2 votes

Meddler your post is completely disingenuous

I think this is the first straight up lie you have ever told considering your main balance philosophy is balance without making the user feel bad.

Its the driving force for the darius changes for example

In that regard bards E is absolutely unbalancable and entirely breaks the champion.

Either it comes out quick enough where its toxic for the opponent or it becomes a no win scenario to use as an engage tool because how much of a setup the skill is for opponents.

Darth Pixy Misa3/12/2015, 7:21:11 PM1 votes

Ez isn't, Ez and Bard would be under tower most of the fight.

TehNACHO3/12/2015, 7:18:50 AM1 votes

Ancient Chimes: One thing to note about this passive is that these tend to spawn closer to Bard rather than just randomly distributed around the map. Ergo, there's a very specific algorithm for chime placement and messing with that placement is in fact well within Riot's capabilities. One balancing lever for the chimes could be to mess with how close or far away these chimes spawn, reworking the algorithm to on randomly place chimes on average closer or farther away from Bard depending on what is deemed necessary to balance him. On a related note, a secondary algorithm so that chimes will spawn in areas where other chimes are can help Bard in terms of chaining the speed buff of multiple chimes together, which can be a buff (move chimes closer together) or nerf (spread them out) based on gameplay, instead of raw numbers.

First thing I noticed about Bard without actually analyzing him deeply.

Nucleophilic atk3/12/2015, 8:32:28 PM1 votes

The problem is not if the champ can be balanced, but whether or not Riot wants them to be. I'm pretty sure Zed, Lee, Thresh, Kalista, Urgot, Elise, Eve, or Olaf (to name a few) could be balanced. Riot just choses not to balance them. It just depends on whether or not Bard turns out to be a #LC$BIGPLAY favorite or not.

Tsugaga3/12/2015, 7:28:01 AM1 votes

Passive, stun duration, ally/enemy portal speed, relic charge time/buff/heal, cooldowns, base stats, projectile speed, and range are all easily changeable I'd imagine. I don't see how he couldn't be altered.

Darth Pixy Misa3/12/2015, 2:26:43 PM1 votes

A big lever everyone is forgeting is Bard has little wave clear. He has 1 skill that does damage and he has a slow AA. Bard is always going to have problems getting gold. Imagine a lane with Bard and Ez Vs Morg and Cait