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Today, I learned that having an opinion is "toxic."

Niyumi··2 votes·1,143 views

So, I now have a 10-game chat restriction for complaining about the absolute lack of balance this game has, and condemning Riot for being a greedy as hell F2P company. Good to know that having an opinion isn't allowed in Communist Runeterra.

Guess chat just isn't meant to be used for anything but stuffing your nose up someone's ass.

"Oh wow, clicked on. Yeah I deserve to die."

"Oh look, Yi / ADC name clicked on me! So outplayed, so skilled, yeah I deserve to lose."

"'Balance' my f***ng (not sure how forums feel about that word) ass."

"Really wish Riot gave a damn about their game, but nah, balance doesn't make money for an F2P company."

(After being harassed all game for "being bad") "Don't pretend you're good for playing X" (usually an ADC, or in my most recent case, an asshole Yi)

"No aiming, no thought, no effort, no skill, nothing, but the highest damage in the game. Fair? Balanced? I don't see how."

Is that "toxic"? Is having an opinion something only a horrible, negative, "toxic" person does? If so, I may as well just turn off chat now, and never use it. I guess I'm just a horrible, evil person though, and deserve to be punished for not enjoying instantly losing to any generic clicker in this game -- I should actually be HAPPY that it's either win and be bored to tears or lose and maybe have fun while doing it. Yeah, that's it.

Thanks for helping me realize that, Riot.

So! I just realized I got chat logs. Let me post it for you, with some context: I was playing jungle Poppy (I do pretty well with it) and tried invading Yi as the game started. I got him to one auto from death, but he lived and got away. From then on, he would have 2-3 people with him and CONSTANTLY invade me and kill me, and then laugh and joke about how bad I was, and how good he was, and eventually nearly everyone in the game was calling me bad and generally harassing me.

Smiteless leash, please. :3 What a leash. >.> It's how I jungle. I totally got the wrong jungle item. xD Makes clearing harder. Sure do love how the most braindead fucking things in the game are, by far, the strongest. "HUR DUR, I CLICK ON YOU, I WIN!" Fair, right? Balanced, right? Zero effort, no skill, no aiming, nothing. All the reward. At least Zac does more than right-click on people and do more damage than literally everyone in the game. Yeah, and my first game EVER, I went 14/3. Trynd can be fought. If you don't stunlock Yi, you will lose. He's fucking broken. Has been since his release. Hur fucking dur, I can push W! I DESERVE to never die! So balanced! So skillful! Oh, really? What'd you do then? Roll your face on your keyboard/ And you're good, playing Yi? Cute. Really? Prove it then. Play a champ with a skillcap above a kingergartner's. Lee takes absolutely no thought. Same with Jayce. And old Poppy isn't the same as new Poppy. HA! Haha! Yeah, they are. But some are easier. Oh look, he clicked on me. Really wish Riot fucking cared about their game. But nah, F2P too important. Show me one game that's even worth a damn. We don't need companies like Riot poisoning what gaming is. When every game is garbage-tier, you just play whatever. And League is popular. Yeah, report me because Yi has no fucking counterplay. Really, what? CC spam? That's not counterplay. Says the asshole playing Yi and then pretending like they're some kind of god. Nah, balance. HE's Yi. He can't die. Not really. "balance" Two autos, instant death. No, it was about two. It's called him being fucking broken, and getting kills because of it. Fucking hate F2P and all the trash it breeds. Because everyone in "pro" play chains CC like that makes them good. Why am I not in challenger? Because I don't play fucking freelo things like you. First game LB, 19/0. First game Yi, 14/3, Fizz, 18/5. I can play a braindead thing and win easily. But I don't have fun on champs like that. Stop pretending you're good for playing Yi. It was cute, now it's just annoying. Hur fucking dur, I can click on you! Would be nice if Riot gave a damn about their game.

>

41 Comments

The Poetic Zed7 votes

It's not the opinion, but the manner in which you present it.

Niyumi2 votes

So saying things that aren't directed at anyone in particular, but are rather just general complaints about auto attacks being the highest form of damage is bad?

Guess everything in this game is "toxic."

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

So saying things that aren't directed at anyone in particular, but are rather just general complaints about auto attacks being the highest form of damage is bad?

Guess everything in this game is "toxic."

Constantly complaining about something could be considered toxic, sure. You would have to post your actual chat logs for me to say much more than that.

If your chat restriction was for more minor stuff like that then it wasn't just for one game either. The logs they give you are just examples of your behavior not everything you have done.

Niyumi2 votes

Oh, I didn't even know I got an email of logs. Figures it was the game where their Yi, who was constantly camping my jungle and killing me with 3-4 of his buddies, was harassing me the entire game trying to say how good he was and how horrible I was (why isn't he being chat banned? Their entire team, and mine, was picking on me the entire game. >.>)

I'll put the logs into my first post.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

Oh, I didn't even know I got an email of logs. Figures it was the game where their Yi, who was constantly camping my jungle and killing me with 3-4 of his buddies, was harassing me the entire game trying to say how good he was and how horrible I was (why isn't be being chat banned? Their entire team, and mine, was picking on me the entire game. >.>)

I'll put the logs into my first post.

The logs should also pop up if you log in to the game as well. I think the email always only contains 1 chat log but sometimes the in client one has up to 3(not entirely sure why that is the case).

Niyumi2 votes

I never got a popup in game. Just loaded into a match, and I saw all kinds of dark orange text telling me about my chat ban and how it worked. >.>

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

I never got a popup in game. Just loaded into a match, and I saw all kinds of dark orange text telling me about my chat ban and how it worked. >.>

try relogging

Niyumi2 votes

Yeah, now I see it. Basically just the same thing as the chat log up there, but the others ones are FAR more tame, and I'm never really fighting with anyone like that Yi -- was just kind of complaining in all chat.

I really don't think Riot wants you to use chat at all.

Daen4 votes

Here's the thing. Expressing an opinion is not a problem, but doing so in a way that brings a bunch of negativity into a game just isn't enjoyable for everyone else playing with you. Almost your entire chat log here is nothing but either bashing your enemies for playing champions you don't like or complaining about how Riot handles League of Legends, I see very little chat that's productive or invites other people into a mature conversation.

You also verge into insulting your enemies numerous times, as per the following:

What'd you do then? Roll your face on your keyboard/ And you're good, playing Yi? Cute. Really? Prove it then. Play a champ with a skillcap above a kingergartner's.

Says the asshole playing Yi and then pretending like they're some kind of god.

Fucking hate F2P and all the trash it breeds. Because everyone in "pro" play chains CC like that makes them good. Why am I not in challenger? Because I don't play fucking freelo things like you. First game LB, 19/0. First game Yi, 14/3, Fizz, 18/5. I can play a braindead thing and win easily. But I don't have fun on champs like that. Stop pretending you're good for playing Yi.

Bottom line, the chat restriction is letting you know that people don't appreciate the negativity you brought into this game. Opinions are completely fine, but when those opinions start becoming a burden on other players it's time to think through what's being said.

Niyumi2 votes

So what about the 9 people who were, quite literally, harassing me to no end, calling me bad, and all those other "toxic" things people like to complain about? It's hard to be quiet when you have an entire room of people calling you out.

As for insulting Yi, he was continually saying I was horrible at Poppy, how good he was at Yi, and how amazing he was at the game in general. I was just saying that it really takes absolutely no skill to play Yi, who does nothing but right-click on people and occasionally push every other button on his bar. These chat logs are like the media cherry picking words to make an article more interesting, when they get none of the context of those words or anything.

Sure, I'll admit someone arguing the whole game could get kind of annoying, but you know what I'd do? I'd push the big, shiny mute button that no one knows about (actually, I don't even do that. I just ignore them the old-fashioned way). I really don't think being harassed by 9 people and arguing with a Yi with a god complex is really deserving of a chat ban, but whatever. Paper skin League players know best.

Daen6 votes

{quoted}

So what about the 9 people who were, quite literally, harassing me to no end, calling me bad, and all those other "toxic" things people like to complain about? It's hard to be quiet when you have an entire room of people calling you out.

If other people are harassing you, they will eventually be punished in whatever way the community sees fit. The best way to deal with them is to mute them so you don't have to deal with it and report them after the game.

Sure, I'll admit someone arguing the whole game could get kind of annoying, but **you know what I'd do? I'd push the big, shiny mute button **that no one knows about (actually, I don't even do that. I just ignore them the old-fashioned way). I really don't think being harassed by 9 people and arguing with a Yi with a god complex is really deserving of a chat ban, but whatever. Paper skin League players know best.

Not to be snarky or anything, but when you were getting harassed why didn't you push the big, shiny mute button?

Niyumi2 votes

{quoted}

If other people are harassing you, they will eventually be punished in ***whatever way the community sees fit. ***

See, that's the thing. Riot doesn't dictate how punishments get doled out, they just have the final word. All the snotty kids and entitled adults that play this game have the power to report you if you do anything to upset them, like call them out for pretending to be something special with a braindead champ.

Not to be snarky or anything, but when you were getting harassed why didn't you push the big, shiny mute button?

Because I don't push the mute button in any game, as they might have something to say eventually that I want to see -- especially my own team. Then, when you have 9 people in your face, had a horrible day to begin with, and so many other compounding issues (anxiety, depression, loads of stress, etc.)... you just kind of get upset. But reality doesn't matter to Riot, and they are all for banning "toxic" people who make the kiddies unhappy.

dunkeroni3 votes

Yes, yes that is toxic.

Niyumi2 votes

Can you explain how? I have never even heard the word "toxic" before coming to League, so I'm thinking it's just a band-aid word that people slap on everything they don't like.

Still don't quite know what it really means, either. I'm beginning to think it really doesn't have a definition.

dunkeroni1 votes

Well your quotes there are passive aggressive, salty, and generally sound like someone who bitches too much because you got outplayed. I'm afraid I can't make you understand what negative tone is if you can't see it yourself. Perhaps talk to your English Teacher at school about mood and tone, and how it affects readers.

Players reading your chat only get to see the words you put down, and they have to fit a voice to you in their head out of context clues. If all you talk about is complaints from your death, the voice they read you as will be negative.

Stephenizgod3 votes

Its the way you say things that make it toxic.

An Example: Someone draws you a picture of a person and asks for your honest opinion

Example 1: "The lines and coloring look a bit off in certain places."
Example 2: "It sucks and you suck, why do you even draw when you suck so bad? Do you just want attention regardless of good or bad so you draw crappy art?"

See they both imply something is not good with the picture but in totally different ways. Example 1 isnt like the nicest thing ever but its still constructive criticism and whether you mean it or not it implies that other than mentioned areas the picture is nice and would be perfect if those issues were fixed. Example 2 is just you being an asshole.

Niyumi2 votes

Neither example is relevant though. In 99% of my games, I never directly talk to a person, I just talk about the game's mechanics and how it all works. The only time I ever insulted a specific person was that Yi, since he was just being an asshole all game.

In your art example, it'd be more like saying that modern "art" is just a joke, and any toddler could do it just as well. I'm not insulting anyone in particular, I'm just insulting how the art community works these days.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Well that is not true you are directly insulting Riot, more than once and in several ways. You also insult that Yi more than once saying he has no skill because he plays no skill champs... just because you are not calling him names doesn't mean you are not insulting him. Also my examples were to show how one presents an opinion with out insulting someone. You say you were punished for your opinion which is untrue, you were punished for how you worded your opinions as an insults.

shyv2 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/d34cd938bc35636823f82334b8cb6f19.png

what exactly are you on about?

Niyumi2 votes

I don't understand what you mean.

shyv1 votes

Lmao

alasarcher2 votes

Having opinion and expressing opinion is not same thing. You can have an opinion, but if you annoy people with your opinion , you are being toxic. Cause, noone really cares about your opinion.

Colgate Gator2 votes

It's not that you have an opinion, but that you're obnoxious and rude.

Puynsi1 votes

Tl;Dr You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is not a fact, so if someone is against your opinion just accept that someone has a different opinion and carry on. (Unless opinion is based around a fact supported with evidence.)

opinions

Niyumi2 votes

Actually, even mathematically, ADCs and champions who lack any skillshots of any kind are the strongest, by far.

My opinion is that that isn't fair, because the least effort should not equal the highest reward -- though most people in this world disagree with me.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

Actually, even mathematically, ADCs and champions who lack any skillshots of any kind are the strongest, by far.

I'd love to see the math behind that.

Niyumi1 votes

Alright. Pick the burstiest skillshot mage you can play. Now take an ADC with half a build. In the time it takes you to do your whole combo, Yi or Generic Clicker #147 will easily double your damage, and do even more if they crit a lot.

And now that your spells are on CD, they continue autoing and far, far out damage you. Even sustained mages like Azir just pale in comparison to AA spammers.

Zombiemaster1 votes

{quoted}

Alright. Pick the burstiest skillshot mage you can play. Now take an ADC with half a build. In the time it takes you to do your whole combo, Yi or Generic Clicker #147 will easily double your damage, and do even more if they crit a lot.

And now that your spells are on CD, they continue autoing and far, far out damage you. Even sustained mages like Azir just pale in comparison to AA spammers.

Hmmm.... Someone asked to see the math behind your accusation, and you give them this. I don't see how this is actual math. I don't see any numbers or calculations or anything. All you're doing is just generalizing.

If you want to prove that "ADCs and champions who lack any skillshots of any kind are the strongest, by far" you're going to have to do a lot more than this. You need to show some actual numbers, do some actual tests, etc. What are champions are you using? What are the exact items/stats of said champions? What is the time frame in which the said champions are allowed to attack/deal damage?

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Alright. Pick the burstiest skillshot mage you can play. Now take an ADC with half a build. In the time it takes you to do your whole combo, Yi or Generic Clicker #147 will easily double your damage, and do even more if they crit a lot.

That's not math. That's a series of statements predicated on math that you haven't presented.

And that's fine, but since you're just restating the same point I was asking about, it doesn't really do much good.

Niyumi1 votes

Okay, let's do a 10 second recording at mid-game.

ADC:

1.6 AS, 250 (half-build AD) AD, 20% crit.

So, in 10 seconds, we get: 6.25 (10/1.6) * 250 = 1,562 damage. Now if we assume 20% of those crit (dealing double damage) , we get 625 (crit AA) + 1250 (normal AA) = 1875 damage.

That's 1,562 damage over 10 seconds with no crits, but 1875 damage over 10 seconds assuming a 20% crit rate.

Syndra:

Now, let's look at Syndra, someone who's very bursty, and is 75% skillshots.

This is assuming about 10% CDR and 250 AP.

Q: ~320 damage.

W: ~200 damage.

E: ~120 damage.

R: ~500-800 damage, depending on how many balls you drop.

So, the basic Q>W>E>R 4-ball ult rotation, which takes about 5 seconds.

~320 + 200 + 120 + ~650 = ~1290. So, in 5 seconds, Syndra wins in damage, since an ADC would only do ~940 at this point max.

Now, how about a 5 ball ult, which requires a bit more effort on Syndra's part?

Q: ~320 damage (x2)

W: ~200 damage

E: ~120 damage

R: ~750-800 damage.

640 + 200 + 120 + 750 = 1,710 damage. This combo takes about 8-9 seconds to land (since you have to wait for your Q CD to come up, and then your ult takes time to deal its damage.

So, Syndra (who has to aim everything she does, and has to manipulate her balls to make her ult do any kind of respectable damage) can do ~1700-1800 damage in 10 seconds, assuming she lands every skillshot and doesn't mess up her ult (which is kind of likely).

Meanwhile, an ADC (who can't miss, doesn't aim, and can just click and AFK) does between ~1600 and ~1900 damage depending on their crit rate.

Let me repeat that: Syndra's potential damage in 10 seconds: ~1700. ADC's potential damage in 10 seconds: ~1600-1900 depending on crit rate. -- and this isn't even including the damage an ADC gets from abilities; this is JUST AA SPAM.

So, yeah, even mathematically, an ADC is VASTLY superior in any fight over 6 seconds (which is, you know, most of them). A late-game ADC with nearly 100% crit, 300-350 AD and nearly 1.8 AS though? Let's do the math there!

In 10 seconds, a late game ADC would do nearly 3700 damage, assuming an 80% crit rate, 1.8 AS and 350 AD (which is VERY likely). And that's not even counting things like Rapid Firecannon, Statik, masteries, or any of that.

Now if we want to look at broken, I could do a figure for Yi, with bork, his double strike, Devourer and all that. Just to show how broken he is.

Jubbinaut2 votes

With no levels and no clear indicator of what skills were leveled, I'm forced to make assumptions when addressing the maths, here. As such, I'm going to make the assumption that she's lvl 11, with a fairly standard skill order (based on minimal research). Also, to make sure all my ducks are in a row, let me be sure I cite the data I'm using for ratios.

{quoted}

Q: ~320 damage.

Rank 5, at 250 AP, this is [264.5+(0.69x250)] = 437 damage.

W: ~200 damage.

Rank 3, at 250 AP, this is [160+(0.7x250)] = 335 damage.

E: ~120 damage.

Rank 1, at 250 AP, this is [70+(0.4x250)] = 170 damage.

R: ~500-800 damage, depending on how many balls you drop.

Rank 2, at 250 AP, this is [135+(0.2x250)] = 185 dmg per ball (minimum of 555).

So, the basic Q>W>E>R 4-ball ult rotation, which takes about 5 seconds.

~320 + 200 + 120 + ~650 = ~1290. So, in 5 seconds, Syndra wins in damage, since an ADC would only do ~940 at this point max.

Given the above calculations: [437+335+170+(185x4)] = 1682

Now, how about a 5 ball ult, which requires a bit more effort on Syndra's part?

640 + 200 + 120 + 750 = 1,710 damage. This combo takes about 8-9 seconds to land (since you have to wait for your Q CD to come up, and then your ult takes time to deal its damage.

Given the above calculations: [(2x437)+335+170+(5x185)] = 2304.

If you're going to claim that math will prove you right, you should actually show the math, instead of vague estimations.

And you probably shouldn't discount the significant impact that CC offers. Because in addition to having more damage in less time, Syndra adds a 1.5 second stun (negating said ADC's dmg for that time), as well as a displacement (potentially forcing them out of range), and a 1.5 second slow.

EDIT: Asterisks are not my friend. Replaced them with "x" to show multiplication.

Niyumi1 votes

Well, having played both ADCs and Syndra, I'm using numbers that I see in-game, rather than the flat tooltips, since armor / MR comes into play. Not just vague estimations. More like vague averages based on observation.

90% of ADCs have CC too, so that's not an advantage that only Syndra has.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Well, having played both ADCs and Syndra, I'm using numbers that I see in-game, rather than the flat tooltips, since armor / MR comes into play. Not just vague estimations. More like vague averages based on observation.

If you're "eyeballing" it, you're not doing math. Also, I note you based your ADC calculations off the raw stats, rather than what you've eyeballed in-game. Meaning your comparisons were invalid to begin with - one calculated raw, and one estimated "effective."

Again, if you're going to claim the math will prove you right, you should show your math.

Also, as a side-note, the relative build strengths of your examples are significantly different - 250AD + 20% crit + ~130% AS is worth about 12,800 gold, while 250AP+10% CDR is only worth about 5,737.5 gold. So you're comparing a significantly more-built ADC to a Syndra with almost half the investment.

If you'd like, I'd be glad to do the comparison for you. Give me a gold amount (to determine items and their overall effects on both offense and defense), level (to determine base numbers and skill ranks), and any two champions (to determine base numbers and skill ratios), and I'd be glad to compare effective damage over whatever timeframe you'd like.

EDIT: Just realized that my calculations for the ADC didn't include gold spent on AS to bring that up to 1.6. I corrected it. Turns out to be a pretty huge change. Also, I forgot to cite my source for gold efficiency. Finally, +% AS required to hit 1.6 was calculated based on a lvl 11 Tristana (and accounts for AS growth due to lvl, but not her Q).

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

"Yi has no counterplay"

"Yi has no counterplay"

"Yi has no counterplay"

YI. HAS. NO. COUNTER. PLAYYYYYYYY.

Niyumi1 votes

CC chaining someone to the extent that they can't even move for 10 seconds is not counterplay, it's an excuse.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Ok, so if using given abilities to defeat an enemy which has a clear and defined weakness is NOT counterplaying against that said champion, then what is? Enlighten me, chosen one.

Niyumi1 votes

Illaoi: How to counterplay her? Move out of her tentacles.

LB: How to counterplay her? Stun her after she dives into you with W, then kill her or harass her a bit.

Azir: Don't walk into his soldiers' range, and abuse him when his Q is on CD.

GP: Break his barrels when he tries to shoot them, and put a lot of pressure on him, bait his W out, then CC him for the kill.

Darius: Kite him, use a movement (if you have one) if he ever grabs you.

Get the idea here? Counterplay is when you actively play against someone's kit -- however, counterplay is NOT when you CC someone to infinity, because that'll kill anyone. Yi has no specific counterplay, since he doesn't aim, has a teleport, damage reduction on his W, true damage, can't be slowed while ulting, all that. This is why a lot of people feel Yi is broken, since he lacks any real counterplay -- the only way to beat him is to just lock him down so long that he can't do anything before he dies.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

{quoted}

LB: How to counterplay her? Stun her after she dives into you with W, then kill her or harass her a bit.

Right. CC is not counterplay.

Niyumi1 votes

CC, when used at specific times, is counterplay. Just locking someone down to the extent that they can't even play the game is not counterplay, it's an excuse.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

You lost this argument a while ago.

TheTarians1 votes

How to counter Yi........ Jax or Teemo, take your pick.

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