"Meta is a SUGGESTION, Not a RULEBOOK" (Aka "The Cult Of…

HavokDash · 2018-03-08T02:13:50.825Z

Meta is a suggestion, Not a rulebook! This was the best way to describe the "Meta" enforcement However I am noticing more and more people are treating "Meta" like a fundamentalist cult. They will not suggest, but Dictate what the rest of thier team played as. Got into a match and thankfully did not disclose my pick intent. instantly went off and banned Supports pick intent. When asked why she did that. Went on and on about how The pick intent was "not a support" I went Top lane and spent the entire game degrading and harrassing teammates because "this is how its supposed to be. Top has to play tank, Mid has to play mage, then jungle is an assassin, and Adc and support". She was especiously demeaning and degrading to Me and support for our "off meta" picks. Repeatedly telling me how "You went soraka top lane, you arent allowed to talk" and she spent the entire game dictating her subjective view of the "meta" or "how things supposed to be" to the rest of her team. Shooting down anyone who dared suggest playing off meta as "a fucking idiot" Even when the other team in post game was telling her that there is nothing wrong with off meta, she would just dismiss them as "idiots" and repeat how "No you idiot, Thats not how the game is played" This is why I cant stand meta players, they become Mindless sheep, fundamentalist cultists. Anyone who doesnt play according to -their own- subjective view of "current meta" is treated like they need to be permabanned from league, hunted down, and burned at the stake. I dont care how badly you idolize the meta, It is not your place to dictate and enforce it on everyone else. Especially when you talk down to your team and call them idiots for not playing WHO and HOW you want. If you go out of your way to intentionally tilt your teammates because YOU see their choices as "beneath" you, then the loss is on you, because you have already thrown the first punch, lit the first flame and started the first toxicity before the match had even started.

HavokDashMar 8, 20181 votes

You are proving my point, By saying that it is NOT a suggestion. You can claim its Optimal..but it is STILL A SUGGESTION. You are essentially saying that because it is "optimal" for the -competitive play-...meaning E-sports. A player is Not allowed to have a differing idea on how to adapt the meta to their particular play style. You are basically telling me that because "the meta" on the competitive circuit has found what is best for them, I am not allowed to have independent thought on a champion/playstyle that is effective for ME.

Meta IS a suggestion. Yes it may be considered Most effective on the competitive circuit, but it is also SUBJECTIVE. It could be greatly effective for ONE player, and not work for another? Why? Because...wait for it....here it comes: EACH PLAYER IS INDIVIDUAL" You can claim it offers "the best performance" all you want, but at the end of the day each person is indiviual. and YOu are saying that because the "pros" in the Esport have found the "most effective" method that works FOR THEM. Well the rest of us peons down here in norms and low ranks should just shut off our brains and blindly obey. Dont bother trying new things, dont bother finding something that works for you on an indivual level. Just shut your brain off and wait for the pros to do your thinking for you.

People like you are unfortunately so busy waiting for the next meta decree to come out, you dont think for yourself, you dont recognize someone who may have a different view point. If Someone says "Hey I thought of this, I have tried it and it seems to work so far" Rather than try it out and MAYBE see how they could improve it. Cultists like you instantly say "Nope! Shut it down, shut down the troll, Enjoy your permaban for trolling, you troll!" why? Because they dont play like YOU, they dont follow what "Everyone else builds" and so therefore, they are "Greifing"

TLDR: You can Say its "whats optimal" all you want. But it is still a SUGGESTION. Or are you going to start petitioning riot to ban individual thought next? personal experimentation? personal strategy? Pros/Competitive players Dont decide what I build, I do!

Imperial PandaaMar 8, 20182 votes

Plus, you know, the meta changes when people experiment with different things.

HavokDashMar 8, 20183 votes

Ask riot, they said that Kindred was INSPIRED because People were taking a MARKSMAN/ADC.....Into the JUNGLE. Or Bard, A Support...again taken into the jungle. Remember Annie support...and how "Troll" that was?

TrulyBlandMar 8, 20181 votes

Ezreal ADC is my favorite example, because it had actually been the meta for a long time on asian servers. But whenever Riot pointed that out when defending the lack of buffs for Ez, nobody believed them. One really minor buff (that was later reverted) and a Pulsefire skin later, Ez was on botlanes everywhere.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You are proving my point, By saying that it is NOT a suggestion. You can claim its Optimal..but it is STILL A SUGGESTION. You are essentially saying that because it is "optimal" for the -competitive play-...meaning E-sports. A player is Not allowed to have a differing idea on how to adapt the meta to their particular play style. You are basically telling me that because "the meta" on the competitive circuit has found what is best for them, I am not allowed to have independent thought on a champion/playstyle that is effective for ME.

Meta IS a suggestion. Yes it may be considered Most effective on the competitive circuit, but it is also SUBJECTIVE. It could be greatly effective for ONE player, and not work for another? Why? Because...wait for it....here it comes: EACH PLAYER IS INDIVIDUAL" You can claim it offers "the best performance" all you want, but at the end of the day each person is indiviual. and YOu are saying that because the "pros" in the Esport have found the "most effective" method that works FOR THEM. Well the rest of us peons down here in norms and low ranks should just shut off our brains and blindly obey. Dont bother trying new things, dont bother finding something that works for you on an indivual level. Just shut your brain off and wait for the pros to do your thinking for you.

People like you are unfortunately so busy waiting for the next meta decree to come out, you dont think for yourself, you dont recognize someone who may have a different view point. If Someone says "Hey I thought of this, I have tried it and it seems to work so far" Rather than try it out and MAYBE see how they could improve it. Cultists like you instantly say "Nope! Shut it down, shut down the troll, Enjoy your permaban for trolling, you troll!" why? Because they dont play like YOU, they dont follow what "Everyone else builds" and so therefore, they are "Greifing"

TLDR: You can Say its "whats optimal" all you want. But it is still a SUGGESTION. Or are you going to start petitioning riot to ban individual thought next? personal experimentation? personal strategy? Pros/Competitive players Dont decide what I build, I do!

Nah bro, your putting words in my mouth and twisting them to fit your own ideas.

You really need to eat some xanny's or something your wayyy too emotional about this. You didn't even read what I wrote anyway.

The point is there is an optimal way to play. That is developed through the meta, or in counter to the meta in some cases. If your not playing the meta, then you are not playing as effectively as you could be. There is nothign wrong with playing off meta, shit I specialize in that and I smurf just so I can do it effectively. But if you play off meta you have to realize that your not helping your team and your breaking their expectations of synergy and cohesion. This is a team game, and you need to play such that you support your team. And if you play an off meta pick, that is not supporting your team that is playing selfishly as well as ineffectively (comparatively speaking).

You have to remember most of this game is math, and your choosing a much lesser value and ignoring the opportunity cost.

TrulyBlandMar 8, 20182 votes

This makes no sense purely from the point of view of the actual definition of metagame and it only makes little sense when disregarding that.

First things first: OP is as wrong as you are. Meta is neither a suggestion nor what is optimal. Meta is the current state of the metagame, which is usually used synonymous to the prevalent strategy. If literally everybody played the game by running in circles continuously trying to get the most laps around their nexus, then that would be the meta, regardless of its chance to win the game.

In the specific case of LoL people are obviously not just doing random things, so the prevalent strategy clearly has some merit... but here's the thing: Nobody has tried out every single strategy there is and made a study of the chance to win across a large number of games. Even if we assume that nobody is biased and that our quasi-swarm intelligence (which doesn't really work reliably for humans) makes sure the meta is optimal... that's still just the optimum of all that has been tried out and not all that is. As such, claiming that it's handicapping the potential of the team to go off-meta is just wrong, while asserting intentional handicapping is just straight up bullshit.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This makes no sense purely from the point of view of the actual definition of metagame and it only makes little sense when disregarding that.

First things first: OP is as wrong as you are. Meta is neither a suggestion nor what is optimal. Meta is the current state of the metagame, which is usually used synonymous to the prevalent strategy. If literally everybody played the game by running in circles continuously trying to get the most laps around their nexus, then that would be the meta, regardless of its chance to win the game.

In the specific case of LoL people are obviously not just doing random things, so the prevalent strategy clearly has some merit... but here's the thing: Nobody has tried out every single strategy there is and made a study of the chance to win across a large number of games. Even if we assume that nobody is biased and that our quasi-swarm intelligence (which doesn't really work reliably for humans) makes sure the meta is optimal... that's still just the optimum of all that has been tried out and not all that is. As such, claiming that it's handicapping the potential of the team to go off-meta is just wrong, while asserting intentional handicapping is just straight up bullshit.

It's not though. The meta evolves because of optimal strategy or in reaction to that optimal strategy. There is no way around that. So yes, meta refers to the current state of the game. But the current state of the game evolves in reaction to what is optimal. What builds are most effective is analyzed and the outcome is played at high level, then the meta evolves based on these findings. The game is balanced for competitive play, and countless hours, dollars and resources go into analyzing the millions of data points and statistical data that is available. The meta forms around these optimal findings as a byproduct of this quasi-swarm intelligence as you put it, but really it's just monkey see monkey do. The pro's establish an optimal playstyle and it trickles down. This can even be observed in the rate of trickle down in the different divisions.

So your wrong that nobody has made a study, very wrong about that. But your point that not everyone has tried every playstyle or strategy does hold some ground. Not much, but you have a point. But the problem with your point, is that it itself relies on the meta. For an alternative playstyle or strategy to be effective, it has to counter the meta playstyles and strategies. That in and of itself makes it become a meta playstyle or strategy.

Your also seriously wrong about it handicapping the team. If a team has an expected strategy or playstyle, then detracting from that to attempt some alternative solo playstyle, is still detracting from that. NO matter how you look at it. It may have an added value of offering a different value to the team, but that is one that the team is not expecting nor can they be expected to play to it's strengths on the fly. And the fact still remains that you are intentionally making that choice. There is no way around those facts, they are facts plain and simple.

TrulyBlandMar 8, 20181 votes

There is no way around those facts, they are facts plain and simple.

That's where I leave this conversation. No point arguing with somebody who believes their opinion is fact.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's where I leave this conversation. No point arguing with somebody who believes their opinion is fact.

Well that will save me the headache of arguing with someone who thinks facts are opinions.

You can call it what you want but the fact remains that if your team is building a team comp that revolves around a specific strategy (because that is what meta is), and you throw your role in that away in lieu of an off meta pick for whatever reason.. You are not helping your team, and if you are not helping your team you are hurting your team. That is fact. Of course you can perform well and you can carry or win, but performance in an off meta pick does not change the fact that you are hindering your teams performance by not adhering to meta standards.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

So... if I try to murder somebody, and the police knows... they won't in any way try to prevent it, because I'm free to commit murder? Or, to use your example, if the police sees that you are trying to punch somebody, do you think they'll just be like "oh well, can't do anything until he actually does punch that guy..."?

Sorry the other thread got locked because you were replying to a 2 month old comment.

But anyway no, not at all. Think about what was said, that laws impose consequence's they don't bar actions. Your free to do as you wish, but there are consequence's for doing things that negatively impact other people's freedoms.

And yes, it is legal to follow someone around. Until you actually punch someone in the face, the police can do nothing. There are of course exceptions, like if you are on record for having punched people (or that person) in the face before. Things like that, because... Just as was stated before, the law can be subjective and each case is situational. If you are trying to commit murder the police can not stop you, until they have "probable cause" that what your doing is going to lead to you committing murder. Up until the point they have probable cause, or sufficient evidence to build a case against you, then you are free to do as you wish. Even after that point, you are still free to do so, but there are consequence's for doing so.

HavokDashMar 8, 20182 votes

That thread was locked, Dont try and hijack My thread to respond to a 2 month old comment on a thread that was locked.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That thread was locked, Dont try and hijack My thread to respond to a 2 month old comment on a thread that was locked.

It's not a hijack, it's a reply. And I wasn't responding to a 2 month old comment, he was, I was responding to a 20 minute old comment.

A hijack would be if I posed a new comment in your thread, in order to produce more responses from it being off topic.

Do you just misunderstand all terminology and take everything as a personal grievance? Or is this just a bad day for you?

HavokDashMar 8, 20182 votes

Its a reply to an entirely different conversation started on a different thread that was Locked so you come here and try and continue THAT conversation on THAT closed thread on MY thread.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Its a reply to an entirely different conversation started on a different thread that was Locked so you come here and try and continue THAT conversation on THAT closed thread on MY thread.

Good, I am glad you now understand the context of the situation.

ElopsterMar 8, 20181 votes

The champs that are meta are not the strongest of their class they are the strongest in the best players hands. Even in Challenger many of the players are not able to pull of some of the champs and in those cases easier champs would be better. Like gangplank for example many pros and challengers play him but there are very few that play him properly and in those cases it would have been better for the bad gangplanks to pick something easier. You are not handicapping your team by picking off-meta I could hop on my smurf and play Yi jg then my main role that I play in challenger and would have a better chance to win because it is much easier to carry on many of the off meta picks.

OxyrottenMar 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The champs that are meta are not the strongest of their class they are the strongest in the best players hands. Even in Challenger many of the players are not able to pull of some of the champs and in those cases easier champs would be better. Like gangplank for example many pros and challengers play him but there are very few that play him properly and in those cases it would have been better for the bad gangplanks to pick something easier. You are not handicapping your team by picking off-meta I could hop on my smurf and play Yi jg then my main role that I play in challenger and would have a better chance to win because it is much easier to carry on many of the off meta picks.

But your confusing team play with solo play. Sure I could play any number of my off meta picks and carry in low elo. But that is me carrying, not my team. There is an important difference that you are overlooking.

Your also misunderstanding the meta. GP wasn't meta because pro's and challengers played him, he was extremely strong because he was able to abuse different strengths, making him remarkably stronger than most of his class in the right hands. So then challenger's and pro's played him, which made him meta.

The fact still remains, if you are picking off meta, it does not synergize with the rest of your team as well as if you picked a champion within the meta, either meta role or meta pick.

HavokDashMar 9, 20181 votes

But it is still Personal CHOICE. And that is the problem with the Cult of Meta. They want to strip you of the right to CHOOSE. "This is current meta, You either play Meta or get reported for trolling/greifing and get banned"

If you want to follow the meta, FINE. All the power to you. But dont start accusing people of trolling/greifing because they happen to SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. I dont follow the meta because Of the people who treat it like a fundamentalist cult and want to burn anyone at the stake for wanting to play something other than what "Everyone else" does.

All I hear is how "if you arent playing meta, then you are not playing "the best" and are therefor trolling your team" It is for that reason I cant stand the meta because people use what the "current meta" is as a blugeon to beat their team over the head saying "if you are in X role, you are only allowed to play THESE champions or build THESE items. If you DONT then you are trolling and I will be reporting you for greifing" In order for people to play the "optimal strategy" you want to strip people of thier right to choose and play by thier own strategy. That is why I say it is a SUGGESTION, NOT A RULEBOOK. And the more you dictate and tell people what they HAVE to play, the more you turn people against the meta.

You Do not have the right to dictate to the rest of your team who they play and hOw they play.

OxyrottenMar 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But it is still Personal CHOICE. And that is the problem with the Cult of Meta. They want to strip you of the right to CHOOSE. "This is current meta, You either play Meta or get reported for trolling/greifing and get banned"

If you want to follow the meta, FINE. All the power to you. But dont start accusing people of trolling/greifing because they happen to SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. I dont follow the meta because Of the people who treat it like a fundamentalist cult and want to burn anyone at the stake for wanting to play something other than what "Everyone else" does.

All I hear is how "if you arent playing meta, then you are not playing "the best" and are therefor trolling your team" It is for that reason I cant stand the meta because people use what the "current meta" is as a blugeon to beat their team over the head saying "if you are in X role, you are only allowed to play THESE champions or build THESE items. If you DONT then you are trolling and I will be reporting you for greifing" In order for people to play the "optimal strategy" you want to strip people of thier right to choose and play by thier own strategy. That is why I say it is a SUGGESTION, NOT A RULEBOOK. And the more you dictate and tell people what they HAVE to play, the more you turn people against the meta.

You Do not have the right to dictate to the rest of your team who they play and hOw they play.

But it is not a suggestion, it is optimal play. We have already settled that.

This game used to offer a lot of expression. And that has been removed from the game. You used to be able to make off meta picks work through the use of itemization and more importantly runes. But runes were removed from the game and items have been tailored into a near linear path. What you are having an issue with however is not the right to choose, it is the desire to succeed. People generally play ranked to climb, and to climb you need to play competitively. Off meta picks are not competitive. You are intentionally choosing things that are not viable (meaning for competitive play). And to other people that signifies that you are not serious and do not intend to do everything within your power to win. Because you are in fact limiting your potential. It's just something your going to have to accept. Sure there may be case scenario's where an off meta pick makes sense, but the case's are few and far between. And people know that, that is why they get frustrated with you.

HavokDashMar 9, 20181 votes

Optimal Is STILL A SUGGESTION. How do you not get that. We havent settled a damn thing. YOU are saying that Because it is Optimal, it is not a suggestion. I am saying That while it Is OPTIMAL (In YOUR eyes), It is still a SUGGESTION or else they would remove all other items from that champ + that role to say "You are PLaying X champ, In Y role/lane, Therefore you are only allowed to build Items A, B, C, OR D, Based on the current meta. Because they arent Doing that, IT IS A SUGGESTION.

You are saying if someone has a different path than what the meta SUGGESTS, that they should be banned from league because they are "greifing/trolling" or that they are not actually trying to win. I am done wasting my time with you because you want anyone who doesnt adhere to what the meta SUGGESTS (even if optimal) should be banned from the game, treating off meta pics as "trolling" because they arent conforming with what YOU see as "optimal" YOU are actively suggesting that the only items that should be allowed are ones that fall in line with current meta, and anyone who doesnt follow the meta is a big bad boogeyman out to INTENTIONALLY destroy matches, Not that they combine Champion abilities + Runes + Items to find a path that works with THEIR PERSONAL PLAY STYLE (Passive, aggressive, Poke-heavy, offensive, defensive, strategic, etc) Off Meta picks are how NEW meta picks are discovered. enjoy your delusion and dictatorship.

OxyrottenMar 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Optimal Is STILL A SUGGESTION. How do you not get that. We havent settled a damn thing. YOU are saying that Because it is Optimal, it is not a suggestion. I am saying That while it Is OPTIMAL (In YOUR eyes), It is still a SUGGESTION or else they would remove all other items from that champ + that role to say "You are PLaying X champ, In Y role/lane, Therefore you are only allowed to build Items A, B, C, OR D, Based on the current meta. Because they arent Doing that, IT IS A SUGGESTION.

You are saying if someone has a different path than what the meta SUGGESTS, that they should be banned from league because they are "greifing/trolling" or that they are not actually trying to win. I am done wasting my time with you because you want anyone who doesnt adhere to what the meta SUGGESTS (even if optimal) should be banned from the game, treating off meta pics as "trolling" because they arent conforming with what YOU see as "optimal" YOU are actively suggesting that the only items that should be allowed are ones that fall in line with current meta, and anyone who doesnt follow the meta is a big bad boogeyman out to INTENTIONALLY destroy matches, Not that they combine Champion abilities + Runes + Items to find a path that works with THEIR PERSONAL PLAY STYLE (Passive, aggressive, Poke-heavy, offensive, defensive, strategic, etc) Off Meta picks are how NEW meta picks are discovered. enjoy your delusion and dictatorship.

That essentially has been done... That's exactly what you are complaining about. It is called the meta...

I am not saying they should be banned at all. Please stop putting words in my mouth, you have done that near every post.

I don't think you understand, I myself play off meta picks. In fact I practically specialize in them. Your kinda crazy though you know that? Like your imagining that I am saying these things simply because you don't like the definition of meta. You can't change the definition, that is all I am saying.

"Meta is a SUGGESTION, Not a RULEBOOK" (Aka "The Cult Of Meta")

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