If you were telling someone how to make a PB&J sandwich, they would be rightfully confused if you said to grab mayonnaise as an ingredient.
"lol I meant peanut butter, I use mayonnaise as another word for peanut butter."
That doesn't fly. Neither does playing dumb about the meaning of "KYS." Nobody cares about your smartassery, we see right through it. You know better. Don't be a shit-head.
VoidStaresBack24 votesBut is Mayonnaise an instrument?
Tokogawaruf2 votesWhat if I use "Instrument" as another Word for Peanutbutter?
So no Mayonnaise isnt Peanutbutter
Woodakoodashooda5 votesIt can be applied to an instrument.
[sg-miss-fortune]
Velzard of Koz5 votesMayonnaise is my city.
MeGotUpSindrome14 votesare you okay? lol.
Magical Player8 votesI've seen kys used in aram yes it breaks the general rule of thumb but at the same time killing yourself to reset does make sense inside of aram but thats kinda a very limited example but i feel the kys as a whole is still toxic and in those extreme circumstances should be handled via support
HalcyonDweller9 votesIndeed it does break the norm in aram.
However, other language can convey the strategy without risking any harm. For example, "die 2 reset" or "suicide to tower" or even just "reset" since most players will know what you mean by those phrases.
Tokogawaruf5 votesI´ve also seen lots of cases where the Others simply asked: "X, Gold?"
More or less meaning go spend it
HalcyonDweller3 votesThat's a good one too! Thanks for sharing :)
Jo0o5 votes"Get executed" is what I say.
Saying "kys" in ARAM is moronic. It's widely used as a perjorative, and teammates are likely to assume it is being used as such instead of as a strategic call.
Poske1 votes[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g6Y21xIV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-24T08:49:43.188+0000)
I've seen kys used in aram yes it breaks the general rule of thumb but at the same time killing yourself to reset does make sense inside of aram but thats kinda a very limited example but i feel the kys as a whole is still toxic and in those extreme circumstances should be handled via support
kys = kiss in some nordic eu countries
Love is bannable
Magical Player1 votesAside from this being a bad term on NA I know nothing of how other regional transgressions work heck I barely understand na
Scary Door5 votesI get that it's a dick-head thing to say, but when did so many gamers get to be so soft?
When I used to play UT (UnrealTournament) back in 2000 the shit people said to eachother was crazy and no one ever got banned, no one ever actaully killed themselves and people knew and understood that it was JUST A GAME.
sigh Thanks Millennials, you guys are doing some great things for our society. I used to laugh when they started putting warning labels on buckets back in the late 80s/early 90s about the dangers of drowning. Who knew we'd fall so far.
ModUlanopo5 votesI get that it's a dick-head thing to say, but when did so many gamers get to be so soft?
It's not that people's values or strength changed. It's that we live in an era in which people are more empowered to speak up for themselves.
I always hearken back to the movie "9 to 5", which probably couldn't get made today because no one would get the basic premise, which is that three secretaries get revenge on their harassing boss, wouldn't be relevant to most viewers. It isn't that people got more sensitive to workplace harassment. It's that people are more aware of it and speak up more often.
Troll for Trump3 votesIf they're aware of it more often, isn't that the same thing as being sensitive? We live in a delusional era of entitled people and safe spaces, where people feel that they have the right to magically warp things in their favor so that they're the victims.
ModUlanopo4 votesWe live in a delusional era of entitled people and safe spaces, where people feel that they have the right to magically warp things in their favor so that they're the victims.
That's an awfully exclusionary statement. It would be just as easy for me to say we live in a more enlightened time where assholes no longer have the power to be assholes with as much impunity as they enjoyed in the past. Both statements lack nuance.
Troll for Trump2 votesThat's wrong though. The assholes just reverse. Rather than assholes who are being "bullies" you have people who play the victim and use it to let loose and justify everything they do.
I do recognize that it's harder to be THAT kind of asshole which people would complain about in the past, but now there's just simply another form of being asshole.
ModUlanopo4 votesplay the victim
As long as you look at people and think this, you will always be wrong because it's an entirely privileged dismissal of their feelings and experiences. This kind of erasure is justification for indifference, which is nothing more than a different type of asshole.
https://i.imgur.com/Ss6ZVSi.jpg[/img]
The equality we're talking about here is a base level of respect. In the universe you posit, anyone who speaks up about the abuse they suffer does so in a false and manipulative way, which is a sort of cultural "King of the Hill" where the privileged feel the cowardly need to push other people down.
I say cowardly because respect is not and never has been a zero-sum game. This tendency allows people who might otherwise have to face their mediocrity to create an underclass they can feel superior to. I find Yonatan Zunger's rebuttal of the "Google Guy Manefesto" to be an excellent rebuttal of this process, even as it was not intended as such.
It's amazing to see the lengths people will go to preserve their sense of self-worth, regardless of whether or not it's justified.
Troll for Trump1 votesIt's not dismissal, it's equality. Everyone has the right to say whatever they want, and respond however they want. What should be keeping us in check is self-restraint, and nothing else. I can make jokes with "kys" in them, you can get offended by it. If someone is offended by the joke because they are suicidal, they can and should speak up. The person telling the joke should be aware of this either before or after this, and should apologize/avoid bringing it up.
What doesn't make sense is for people who aren't suicidal and in no way affected directly by "kys" to get offended. They can speak up and they can get offended, it just doesn't make any sense. They're making a fuss out of nothing; that's a type of asshole. If you refuse to allow people to make jokes with "kys" at all, that is also wrong, because you are suppressing their freedom of speech. Neither side should be prevented from speaking their mind, and both can be offended. That is equality, not dismissal. It's fine to speak up against the supposed "disrespect" one is facing, but there will be consequences, and the "disrespector" can defend his position. This should work both ways.
There's not black/white or right/wrong. That is what equality means. Victims and "disrespectors" need to be equal so that neither side will oppress the other.
Playing the victim does not mean you are manipulative. Those cases are very rare. Playing the victim simply means someone has come to the conclusion that they are the victim of some supposed injustice, and believe they are in the right to defend themselves from the injustice. They are going beyond the base level of respect by trying to establish a sense of entitlement, which is extremely ironic.
#Example
I feel like it would be easier to explain the point I'm trying to make with an example. White victimization is what I'm going to use as an example of "playing the victim." The "white victims" aren't (mostly) manipulative; they honestly believe that they are facing some sort of discrimination from minorities. While this can be true in some cases, it's almost always not as big of a deal as they make it out to be. Usually, they use this "playing the victim" to justify whatever irrational decision they make.
Minorities also pull off the exact same argument, where they non-manipulatively think they are victims, even when they are not. In some cases, they are, but this is not always true, and they will often overexaggerate the supposed discrimination they face.
For white victimizers, the victims are the whites and the disrespectors are the minorities. The opposite is true for the minorities. If we are to have equality, neither side can have more power than the other. Both need to be able to make their points, and each scenario should be judged separately. Otherwise, you will see more actual white victims or minority victims, depending on whichever side has power.
#Google Guy Manifesto
Agree with Zunger and the point you're making. I just want to say that it works both ways. Google Guy is discriminating against women through stereotyping. Engineering is not defined by gender roles. But, if Google Guy were discriminating against men in a similar manner, I think a similar response should be given advocating for men.
ModUlanopo1 votesI was pretty much with you until this point:
Minorities also pull off the exact same argument, where they non-manipulatively think they are victims, even when they are not.
I think that's arrogance and privilege talking. Yet again, this is "it's not a problem for me, so it's not a problem" thinking.
Troll for Trump1 votesI think that's arrogance and privilege talking. Yet again, this is "it's not a problem for me, so it's not a problem" thinking.
The problem with your argument is that it relies entirely on accusing me of being priveledged. It's an argument that relies on an ad hominem.
I am actually a minority, and surrounded by a lot of them. And yes, I see a lot of ridiculous bs that is defended with self-victimization.
I get that there is some degree of discrimination, but it's not that oppressing.
But obviously, I do not know how it's like to be one of the truly discriminated minorities. Thus, that argument can always be used.
ModUlanopo1 votesThe problem with your argument is that it relies entirely on accusing me of being priveledged. It's an argument that relies on an ad hominem.
This is a lot more complex than you're making it out to be because of what is referred to as intersectionality. A trans black woman experiences privilege (or the lack thereof) differently than a straight First Nations male. You've also moved from the abstract to using yourself as an example.
I might have been able to be somewhat more precise in my language, but I think I came pretty close. "When you speak, you do so from a position of privilege" remains true regardless of the actual privilege you enjoy - real or inflated. I also think that erasure is a thing, regardless of where it comes from.
I teach a class on this at work as part of our sensitivity training series and one of the highlights is when I bring out a picture of twenty people in a spread of races, genders and appearance, explain that all of these people are on public assistance and note the national average for welfare fraud is 5%. I then ask them to locate the person they think most likely to be the cheat and why.
Troll for Trump1 votesThere is literally no way to argue out of being privileged.
But I guarantee there are at least some minorities that victimize themselves unnecessarily.
HalcyonDweller1 votesAlso, I want to speak to something you said earlier in the discussion. You said that people who get offended but were not affected by this are assholes for pretending to be victims.
I take no offense by you saying this, but I do assume it means you think I am an asshole because you think I have not been affected by this and am therefore getting offended when I have no right to be.
I'd like to clear something up and make it clear to you that I personally repeatedly had to talk a suicidal friend out of killing themselves. May times because someone told them to "KYS" in-game. It was extremely stressful and I had an absolutely terrible year because of how worried I was about what people's words would do to my friend.
Troll for Trump1 votesSome does not equal all. You shouldn't assume that everyone is faking being a victim just because some people do.
I didn't and I don't. I explicitly stated that almost every time.
I take no offense by you saying this, but I do assume it means you think I am an asshole because you think I have not been affected by this and am therefore getting offended when I have no right to be.
Then you aren't being an asshole.
HalcyonDweller1 votesHoly crap that article rebuttal by Yonatan Zunger opened my eyes to a whole line of thinking I hadn't had before about the google guy manifesto.
I'm really glad I stumbled across this comment :)
ModUlanopo2 votesHoly crap that article rebuttal by Yonatan Zunger opened my eyes to a whole line of thinking I hadn't had before about the google guy manifesto.
I'm really glad I stumbled across this comment :)
You're most welcome. :)
I think it's important to consider how we value (and devalue) others.
Eridu4 votes[deleted]
Troll for Trump3 votesWhen you're directly making fun to spite suicidal people or are telling people to kill themselves it is bad
When it's part of a joke it's less bad, and should be taken as a joke. You shouldn't tell that joke to people who are suicidal (most will hide it), and online you don't know whether the people are suicidal or not.
The stupid part is non-suicidal people somehow being offended by it.
no one would get the basic premise, which is that three secretaries get revenge on their harassing boss
Horrible Bosses. It also got made into a sequel.
ModUlanopo5 votesHorrible Bosses. It also got made into a sequel.
I would argue that only got made because it inverted the premise. Lots of people like the feel of "both sides do it", even when that's a poor argument.
dominusx4 votesMe and my friends have been reffering it as Kiss Your Sister both in discord/League and Cs. We usually do type out KissYourSister tho cause ya know softies might think we tell em to kill -----ves or someshit.
Waljkyria4 votesGet the feeling that people playing this game are become little bitches, whining for every little thing. "oh no he said kys it's so offensive :'( :'( " While the dude feeding 0/15 on purpose saying and lying "first time this char" will get encouragement.
Taeseuk4 votesHowever you have no idea what that person is going through in their personal lives, just because you're not bothered by it doesn't mean the poor soul already struggling with their life isn't going to be bothered by it.
It's not an appropriate term to use with people you don't know.
Sraeg20131 votesIf an acronym used on the internet was enough to trigger somebody, then they were already done for.
HalcyonDweller1 votesIf person A hits and kills person B in a crosswalk, they are not automatically excused from responsibility for their carelessness if person B happened to be poisoned and going to die in 10 minutes anyway.
Sraeg20133 votesNo legal system in the world that I know of puts an equality sign between "saying something mean" and "shooting somebody in the face".
Try again.
HalcyonDweller2 votesWhere the fuck did I mention laws?
It's a question of moral responsibility. Carelessness can result in harm to others.
Just because others happen to be more or less prone to harm in that way does not alter the responsibility of the person making the careless act.
Sraeg20131 votesWhere the fuck did I mention laws?
Because laws are necessary to regulate lives of lesser minds.
It's a question of moral responsibility. Carelessness can result in harm to others.
Just because others happen to be more or less prone to harm in that way does not alter the responsibility of the person making the careless act.
In this case a careless act would be jumping off a roof, because somebody was mean on the internet.
HalcyonDweller2 votesBecause laws are necessary to regulate lives of lesser minds.
Implying that some people are above the law? That is a dangerous path to tread.
Are you suggesting that everyone who thinks differently from you is of a lesser mind? That is also a dangerous path.
In this case a careless act would be jumping off a roof, because somebody was mean on the internet.
If you choose to ignore the point of my words and just nit-pick at off-topic points then I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you here.
Just remember that compassion is one of the human traits with the greatest potential to do good.
Sraeg20131 votes
- Implying that some people are above the law? That is a dangerous path to tread.
- Are you suggesting that everyone who thinks differently from you is of a lesser mind? That is also a dangerous path.
Laws were created and are maintained specifically, because some people can't behave.
If you choose to ignore the point of my words and just nit-pick at off-topic points then I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you here.
I chose to ignore the part about moral responsibility, because morality isn't "real". Or one could say it is "subjective".
What you may see as "moral", I on the other side of the globe can be considered "immoral", for no reason other than our culture and therefore upbringing.
Just remember that compassion is one of the human traits with the greatest potential to do good.
There's a saying "If you're gonna have a soft heart, you better have a hard ass."
HalcyonDweller1 votesLaws apply to everyone, not just the "idiots" who need them, as you seem to think.
When people think they are above the "law" or the prevailing morals it becomes possible for them to make decisions that put others in harm's way and feel completely in the right about it.
Riot has a zero tolerance policy for "KYS" that should make it pretty clear for you as to how they - the rule setters for league - feel about the phrase. There is really no argument that can make it okay to use against other players.
Sraeg20131 votesLaws apply to everyone, not just the "idiots" who need them, as you seem to think.
You seem to be thinking too much about what I think instead of reading what write. I said laws were made because of people who can't behave, am I wrong? And where am I even implying that some people are above the law?
When people think they are above the "law" or the prevailing morals it becomes possible for them to make decisions that put others in harm's way and feel completely in the right about it.
As I said, your morals may not be my morals. Morals aren't universal.
Riot has a zero tolerance policy for "KYS" that should make it pretty clear for you as to how they - the rule setters for league - feel about the phrase. There is really no argument that can make it okay to use against other players.
This isn't even a part of this discussion.
As a reminder, it started with you putting a "mean comment" next to "murder" and saying they are the same thing.
HalcyonDweller1 votesYou seem to be thinking too much about what I think instead of reading what write. I said laws were made because of people who can't behave, am I wrong? And where am I even implying that some people are above the law?
As I said, your morals may not be my morals. Morals aren't universal.
This isn't even a part of this discussion.
As a reminder, it started with you putting a "mean comment" next to "murder" and saying they are the same thing.
So basically you're nit-picking and mis-interpreting my argument, in order to argue with me over... what exactly? Are you here to prove a point or are you just trying to dismiss me?
I've personally had to deal with the consequences of others telling my friend to kill themselves in-game. You have no fucking clue how close they actually came to doing it.
And there are other, non-personal, real-world costs. Police have to respond when someone calls in saying they have information that suggests their friend might kill themselves. And the hospital incurs costs if a person comes in needing medical attention because they made an attempt on their own life.
"KYS" goes way beyond some flimsy 'mean comment.' It has real world impact on the person it is said to, on the people around them, and on the public servants in their area if they are forced to get involved.
higura4 votesTo the people who claim "KYS" means something different
https://translate.google.com/#da/en/kys
[sg-ahri-2]
Smart Girl1 voteswell it all depends on context just because something mean something to you doesn't mean it means that to someone else like in England (my city) a fg is a nice thing to smoke on your day off but if you were to ask someone to get you a fg in america they would be utterly offended but again its a communication difference if they said "hey where i am from you put mayo as an ingredient" you would look at them funny but then laugh it off because they meant no harm
so kill your shelf.
https://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Kill+your+shelf+found+on+tumblr+nor+mine_e60918_3228339.jpg
HalcyonDweller13 votes[{quoted}](name=Old Ways ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g6Y21xIV,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-24T09:02:14.172+0000)
well it all depends on context just because something mean something to you doesn't mean it means that to someone else like in England (my city) a fg is a nice thing to smoke on your day off but if you were to ask someone to get you a fg in america they would be utterly offended but again its a communication difference if they said "hey where i am from you put mayo as an ingredient" you would look at them funny but then laugh it off because they meant no harm
so kill your shelf.
https://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Kill+your+shelf+found+on+tumblr+nor+mine_e60918_3228339.jpg
If you call another player a f*g, you are obviously not referring to cigarettes.
The rest of your argument consists primarily of the claim that cultural context matters. However, "KYS" is very uniform in its meaning across most of gaming culture.
As I stated in the OP, nobody cares about your smartassery. If you want people to think you are clever, try actually being clever.
