Does not suddenly entitle players to AFK!
Edit: There seems to be some confusion here. This is not a post about "Never give up! Never Surrender!" It's a post against leaving games, especially if the leaver decides to quit all because their team did not FF.
Akheteru51 votesWhen it's 30-6 and you've already lost 5 turrets and an inhib at the 18 minute mark, those two no votes are just trolling at that point.
NA Omega21 votesThe rules state that if the team does not agree to a surrender you must play the game out to the best of your ability. Digging deep for the massive outplays and superior strategy.
Akheteru5 votesm8, I got placed Silver 5 in provisionals. I main support. In about 60% of my games, I've done well, going for example 1/5/15 on Nami - and losing. Despite playing my position to the best of my ability, I've got an abysmal 24% winrate and am now Bronze 4.
When it's 30-6 and I'm getting trolled with 'No' votes by teammates who couldn't outplay a wet paper bag, I don't AFK, but don't expect me to go into the 10th midlane team fight and help them feed the other team even more, either.
EDIT: For clarity, in that time, I will be away from the bs, farming as best I can, recalling to defend when there's no choice but to do that, and initiating another surrender vote as soon as I'm able. If somehow, by some miracle, the count starts to even up and my team actually manages to take a turret or two, then I'll start helping again - so far, this has happened plenty of times in Blind games, but not one single time in Ranked have I been on a team that mounted a comeback OR played against a team that mounted a comeback. These things don't happen in Bronze.
IcyPepper11 votesIf you're going to lose either way, why not just play the game instead of risking punishment by going afk? I think that's what the OP is trying to say.
Akheteru5 votesAh, I see.
In that case, I do agree - to a point. While I don't "afk" per se, I can understand why some would. It isn't fun getting nuked over and over by that fed Zed or Akali. My attitude is, if I go to the team fight (again) I'm just going to do anyway. I'd rather die trying to push top or bottom lane - at least I'll have 3 minutes or so of farm before their entire team pounces on me.
My overall response and attitude toward this thread is fueled by all the 30 and 45 minute games where the winning team takes one, maybe two inhibs, and then just farms an embarassing number of kills on my losing team that insists on running into their fed betters over and over instead of trying to split push, farm up and actually turn the game around. Instead of just, you know, ending the game. At that point, I feel like I'm being trolled by 9 people and would rather just take my loss and get on with the next game.
IcyPepper2 votesI'd rather die trying to push top or bottom lane - at least I'll have 3 minutes or so of farm before their entire team pounces on me.
I mean, that's fine. Sometimes what you think and what the team thinks is the win condition isn't the same. At least you're trying, and that's all that matters.
At that point, I feel like I'm being trolled by 9 people and would rather just take my loss and get on with the next game.
I've been there. I just mute them if they're being vocal and take a nice drink of water every time I blow up in a teamfight. It really helps.
The Space Cowboy8 votesIf your win rate is that low you can improve it by playing every game out. The chance of winning a comeback is higher than riot glitching out and giving you a win for surrendering.
rtbf906614562 votesThere's your problem, you play support in bronze elo smh. Go pick up a solo lane or carry role and carry your team. You want to ff becauae you have little agency in the state of the game as a support. Say you are a 6-0 kaisa though, things look a lot better in that 30-6 game
Akheteru1 votesSo you're saying learn to use Yasuo or someone similar. I suck at last hit CSing, but I do own Yas so I'll play him, Swain and I guess Akali and/or Zed in some normal/blinds and try to get it down.
rtbf906614561 votesNo, I'm saying play supports like tahm kench or taric that does damage without relying too much on your ADC. it doesn't matter how bad your ADC is if you can spoonfeed 3-4 kills early on, you'll win unless you get outscaled hard or outplayed hard
Arammus3 voteswell to be fair. if a game looks like its 100% lost, you never won any teamfight AND you had an early game comp while the enemys have a lategame on and teammates dont surrender, i do get tilted a bit. yea i keep playing and i try my best, but im alrdy tilted. thus i will never ever come close to what i could do if i wasnt tilted.
lntentFeed1 votes[{quoted}](name=NA Omega,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WRiJAHaA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-06T22:35:52.285+0000)
The rules state that if the team does not agree to a surrender you must play the game out to the best of your ability. Digging deep for the massive outplays and superior strategy.
Also, racism doesn't exist anymore.
KSYN8 votesWhen it's 30-6 and you've already lost 5 turrets and an inhib at the 18 minute mark, those two no votes are just trolling at that point.
Sometimes it's spite. Pure, unadulterated spite. Sold by the kilo under tables.
Votable Jester4 votesYeah... I've done that a couple times. If they do really bad and are toxic af to the rest of the team, I'll sometimes say no as a sorta "you made this mess, you're gonna look at it a bit longer" sorta thing.
Not something I'm proud of doing or anything, but I don't really feel bad about it either when I think of all the vitriol coming from that person. Also gives more ammo in the report of things they could be punished over (but this is just a bonus I thought of now).
SkullDuggery19191 votesSo you admit to troll voting, then admit to baiting people into being toxic, and you're upvoted? These threads are an embarrassment to the community, and would be to any community. As if it's somehow better to keep 3 people playing when they don't want to, because of your immature need to punish people. Let Riot do the punishing. This self-righteous BS only makes the game more toxic, but lowering toxicity isn't what these threads are about, right? They are about some irrational, inane sense of justice that immature players need to make themselves feel better.
Grow up.
Votable Jester1 votesI don't think you read that right. I didn't say I did the right thing. I said explicitly that it wasn't something I was proud of. It was simple and petty revenge.
Also I said clearly that the person was already being toxic af before I voted no. I did not bait anyone into being toxic.
I get the sense you're at least as immature as I with this little rant of yours ending in the classically condescending "Grow up."
SkullDuggery19191 votesWhat about the other people who wanted to surrender? There is 3 other people on your team. You don't even consider that you are wasting their time.
More self-righteousness from you.
Seriously, grow up.
Votable Jester1 votesWell for one thing you can't stop an ff on your own after 20 minutes, so it was actually only 2 people max who wanted to ff (other than the toxic person). AKA at least one other person didn't want to ff either. In that sense, agreeing to ff would be wasting that person's time just as much as not ffing wastes the time of the others.
Also they all signed up to play a game, so it's not like they were being kept in it longer than could be expected. I even still tried my hardest to win, despite them just sitting in fountain.
Also you downvoted me in a one on one discussion, so you obviously aren't as mature as you think you are. See ya.
SkullDuggery19191 votesYou care about downvotes. Grow up.
You force people to play with trolls for your own false sense of justice. Grow up.
In any other social situation neither your behavior or his would be accepted. In a game of basketball you can't force people to stay, so you would be left playing by yourself. If any of you immature people had any life experience outside of sitting at a desk staring at a monitor you would know that trolls don't exist in person, because nobody would play with them. Certainly nobody would voluntarily play with them for longer out of spite. This is an idiotic mentality that holds no bearing anywhere else in life.
ModUlanopo21 votesIt is possible to have reasons for wanting the match to continue OTHER than possibly winning and those reasons are just as valid as any other.
Akheteru3 votesNo.
Battalion6 votesAt the end of the day you accepted Riots terms to play the game and to play by their rules. There is nothing protecting your "right" to AFK after a failed surrender vote. You are totally free to disregard and AFK if you want, but don't complain to Player Behavior boards when you receive a suspension.
Akheteru4 votesNowhere did I say that I AFK or have received a suspension.
I don't AFK (see comments above). I don't flame chat. I mute people and report them in post-match if they were doing something that is against the rules as I understand them.
Voting no on a surrender when getting rolled 30-6 is trolling. Doubly so when you vote no a few minutes later when it's 40-6. Triply so when you vote no a few minutes after that when it's 50-6. Etc.
ModUlanopo8 votesVoting no on a surrender when getting rolled 30-6 is trolling.
I found no losses in your match history that were anywhere near that lopsided. One was 30-10, but most were about 2-to-1.
You might be suffering from observation bias.
HippoPlays3 votesThat's still pretty lopsided :p (also 30-6 their team COULD have gotten more kills after it)
Spank the Fox2 votesStop with these hypotheticals, jesus.
You act like that happens frequently enough to justify your behaviour.
Akheteru2 votesI see you're Gold 2. Forgive me for making assumptions, but I am getting the sense, from your comment, that you haven't been in Bronze for a long time.
There's nothing hypothetical about this. It happens 3 games out of 5. I'll either be on the team getting stomped and refusing to surrender, or I'll be on the stomping team and wondering why, at 28:00, the enemy hasn't surrendered yet. Very few Bronze games are back-and-forth or competitive. They are almost all streamrolls. Nobody down here in elohell knows how to counter a fed and snowballing Yi/Akali/Zed/Jax/Vayne/Etc.
And since I haven't been chastised yet, I am assuming that (if I've been reported for it) avoiding teamfights in these games and trying to push a lane instead is kosher in Riot's view.
Stupafly5 votesI always heard and assumed throws were very common in low elo.
And if they are, that's a good reason not to surrender
The Ecdysiast5 votesHaving one single friend with you doesn't suddenly entitle you to be an asshole to three allies.
KVbqbFsC8e4 votesOk. That still doesn't make it any less of a dick move to hold teammates hostage.
VonToothskie4 votes[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WRiJAHaA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-06T23:11:34.953+0000)
Ok. That still doesn't make it any less of a dick move to hold teammates hostage.
dude. you agree to play the game when you join. one single game. you arent being "held hostage" if you have to play through it. I basically gave up on summoners rift and switched to aram because of this nonsense. people freak out and surrender at first blood sometimes because "oh noes they got first blood! no one can stop first blood soraka! gg". that attitude is the first reportable offence - Griefing. aka giving up/negative attitude
Wolfeur5 votesQueuing is making the oath to play the game until the end. You're not being "held hostage", you accepted to receive responsibilities and duty towards your teammates.
Cavesloth3 votesI used to be that, NEVER SURRENDER, NEVER GIVE UP! type, but after what RIots done to the game this, I don't blame people for AFKing when people refuse to surrender. The fact that Riots giving up on the unambitious 15 min surrender shows even they admit its just people holding the team hostage. 2 People refusing to surrender just means you have higher than average amount of dicks on your team.
Akheteru1 votesWhat I don't understand is this: Why is 1 no vote enough to keep the match going at the 15:00 mark, but later in the game it's not? It's possible that I could read an answer to that question somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
Cavesloth2 votesRiot was afraid too many games would end in surrender. Ironic eh?
Votable Jester7 votesI'm no longer a "never give up, never surrender" person, but I do still 100% blame people for afking when their team says no to the surrender. More often than not, people are just giving up way too fucking easily these days.
I've had teams call for open mid (pre-15) when we were only down a couple kills and our team comp massively outscaled theirs. Admittedly it was a guaranteed loss, but only because nobody played safe with their scaling champs, instead trying to finally beat that Lucian 1v1.
2 people refusing to surrender doesn't mean you have more dicks than usual on your team. People afking after their teammates refuse to surrender DOES mean you have more dicks than usual on your team.
VonToothskie1 votesI used to be that, NEVER SURRENDER, NEVER GIVE UP! type, but after what RIots done to the game this, I don't blame people for AFKing when people refuse to surrender. The fact that Riots giving up on the unambitious 15 min surrender shows even they admit its just people holding the team hostage. 2 People refusing to surrender just means you have higher than average amount of dicks on your team.
or they want to play it out. about 1/3 of my victories come after a failed surrender vote. often because a griefer or troll realizes that they are bored and the fastest path out of game is to win instead of dragging. point is the game rules say 80% surrender or nothing. you agree to it, ad if you break your word then youre the one misbehaving
Cavesloth1 votesYou misunderstand, I'm not gonna go inting just because two assholes said no. But at the same time I'm not going to report those that say "Dueces, these assholes won't surrender I'm outtie"
The Real Mugatu1 votesI'm far from a "NEVER SURRENDER" player but my friend and I are often the reason we don't surrender super early in the game, and guess what? Recently, I've won multiple games where the team is flaming saying "ff at 15" 7 minutes into the game but by 20 minutes it even and we come out ahead.
I think the number of votes required for surrender is in an ideal spot.
Cavesloth1 votes7 minutes is way too early to call it yes, but by 15 you can definitely tell who is going to win 90% of the time.
Troll for Trump3 votesYeah it's fun to be trapped in games you don't want to be in.
Team games, everyone.
fatherdarius8 votesLook at it this way:
By queuing into the game, you're agreeing to play it out to the end unless 80% of your team decide to forfeit. If two players still want to hold out, they can. It's built into the rules.
You know going in there's a possibility of not being able to surrender an obviously lost game (obvious to 60% of the team, anyway).
I mean, if you don't want to take that risk and potentially waste your time, why queue up at all?
Karunamon3 votesThere's still no reason a 3/2 vote isn't enough to end the game. 2 players should not be able to hold 3 others in game. That's more than half.
fatherdarius1 votesI imagine the developers have/had a reason they believed three-fifths wasn't enough - though what that reason is/was I have no idea. Why they want a super-majority, I just don't know, but it's what we have to work with. I'm not against it changing - but it doesn't bother me the way it is either.
TrulyBland2 votesThe tricky thing is that the different votes are inherently unequal. A failed vote can be repeated, a successful vote cannot.
Whether requiring a 80% supermajority is the best way to compensate for that is obviously debatable, but I'd be lying if I said I could come up with a better alternative.
Karunamon1 votesIt also means that a duo can hold 3 other people hostage.
If I had a penny for every time I saw a 3 yes, 1 no, 1 abstain surrender vote...
One way or another, this lets a minority of people annoy a majority of people. More overall misery is created.
Troll for Trump1 votesBecause you can potentially have a great game as well.
You generally play to have fun.
If you aren't having fun, why play?
fatherdarius1 votesIt probably just comes down to personal player attitude/preference (i'm not meaning attitude in 'bad attitude' sense).
I still have fun when I'm getting stomped, or when the enemy is stalling to prolong the game. I realize everyone is different.
Hell, some don't even have fun if their team is wining - they only have fun if they're carrying.
