Banning Toxic or Cheating Players doesn't work...

HalcyonDweller··4 votes·624 views

...when they can just log into an alternate account or make a new one and continue ruining games for others.

Honestly I think these players on new accounts might be the reason actual new players have such a hard time getting into the game.

EDITS:

As pointed out by another person in the comments, I didn't say we shouldn't punish them. But the system as it is doesn't work well enough. I want more.

Editing to include some ideas, since just complaining doesn't solve anything. here's an elaboration I made in the comments below.

{quoted}

I'm just tilted from people saying crap like, "Go ahead report me, I have 5 other accounts." it's bullshit and clearly they aren't being stopped by the systems we have in place.

Stronger preemptive chat filters would go a long way to get rid of toxicity. For example:

  1. That thing they did with Overwatch chat was pretty clever. Make the people who type toxic stuff make fun of themselves instead.

  2. Or remove the behavioral reward that toxic players get for being toxic, just isolate them. This could be done by making their chat messages not even show to other players. They would think they got to say their piece, but would get no reaction because the other players wouldn't even know they said something. No reaction = no reward. The behavior might go through extinction bursts (getting worse before it gets better), but it would die out.

18 Comments

elduris3 votes

So if the punishment weren't applied and players who are toxic or cheat are never banned, how do you think the situation should be handled?

Silly Neeko1 votes

{quoted}

So if the punishment weren't applied and players who are toxic or cheat are never banned, how do you think the situation should be handled?

Why yes, i would like to know their alternative..... Oh wait i think i know what they are going to say..... "ip ban".....

Also, some people reform. The OP are focused on the bad ones that dont ever get their main account banned because they troll on an alt/someone elses account.

elduris1 votes

That's true, I'd argue that a majority of people that get chat restricted for being toxic end up reforming anyway. It's the vocal minority that is causing the problem and it's just finding that balance between giving reasonable punishments to those who want to reform and escalating those that don't quick enough.

aZ3R0n2 votes

The OP never said they shouldn't be punished. He's saying the system doesn't work as it is.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This. Thank you!

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I'm just tilted from people saying crap like, "Go ahead report me, I have 5 other accounts." it's bullshit and clearly they aren't being stopped by the systems we have in place.

Stronger preemptive chat filters would go a long way to get rid of toxicity. For example:

  1. That thing they did with Overwatch chat was pretty clever. Make the people who type toxic stuff make fun of themselves instead.

  2. Or remove the behavioral reward that toxic players get for being toxic, just isolate them. This could be done by making their chat messages not even show to other players. They would think they got to say their piece, but would get no reaction because the other players wouldn't even know they said something. No reaction = no reward. The behavior might go through extinction bursts (getting worse before it gets better), but it would die out.

elduris1 votes

{quoted}

  1. That thing they did with Overwatch chat was pretty clever. Make the people who type toxic stuff make fun of themselves instead.

I agree, I thought it was pretty amusing the first time I saw it. It doesn't come up often, maybe because I stick to QP and Arcade, but when it does I find there's enough variety in the messages for it to not get old and boring.

{quoted} 2. Or remove the behavioral reward that toxic players get for being toxic, just isolate them. This could be done by making their chat messages not even show to other players. They would think they got to say their piece, but would get no reaction because the other players wouldn't even know they said something. No reaction = no reward. The behavior might go through extinction bursts (getting worse before it gets better), but it would die out.

I think that's a pretty good idea, my only concern would be communication with the rest of your team. If you got a chat restriction and you honestly wanted to improve your behavior, being "shadowbanned" from chat with no explanation would probably come off as really harsh.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

If you got a chat restriction and you honestly wanted to improve your behavior, being "shadowbanned" from chat with no explanation would probably come off as really harsh.

I understand and agree. I believe it would require a higher level of AI chat filter. We couldn't just 'shadowban' everything someone says. Here are a few more ideas:

  1. Maybe it could auto-correct toxic statements out? This might be a problem though in causing frustration for the player (I guess that would apply to the Overwatch solution as well)
  2. Or what if it only blocked toxic phrases, and not everything the player says? That way they would get responses for being neutral, strategic or positive. This would doubly work because it would reward the desired replacement behavior.
destinedaboss1 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

You are correct. Once in a while you can find 100 lvl 30 accounts on ebay for $75. That is 75 cents per account.

The real problem is that riot will not stop the people from leveling up accounts using bots. Stopping that would force humans to level up accounts. Even at chinese labor prices, it wouldnt be worth it to blatantly troll and lose an account because it would cost a lot more than 75 cents.

I agree that bots are a problem, people should be made to level their own accounts when they start on a new account. This is a big problem that does circumvent the system.

{quoted}

Riot does not want to stop this problem because some people who purchase those accounts purchase RP, so there is no reason to cut off some paying customers just because you are occasionally inconvenienced. Money coming into Riot is the most important thing here, especially since the chinese took majority ownership.

Do not seek the answer to a problem they are not willing to solve, because it goes against their financial interests.

When I grow up will my tin-foil hat look as big and shiny as yours?

You make that claim without a shred of evidence to back it up. Riot does not avoid bans to keep paying customers. They avoid bans to keep from wrongly punishing players.

destinedaboss1 votes

And where is your evidence to back up your fantasy?

Oh you do not have any?

HalcyonDweller2 votes

{quoted}

And where is your evidence to back up your fantasy?

Oh you do not have any?

I literally referenced what was implemented in Overwatch to counteract toxic chat.

My ideas are based on behavioral psychology, a proven technique that can modify and improve people's behaviors. See Behavior Extinction and Operant Conditioning.

Look, I'm sorry for snapping at you for saying "Greed guides Riot in policy decisions." But I've had enough of that crap when I was growing up at home and my parent would get bitter and talk shit about people and companies with no basis claiming it was because they are greedy.

While this is true in some cases, it does not apply to everything. Riot has shown time and again that they make decisions based on the game, and not just on money.

If they only cared about money they would never have implemented the loot system with keys and chests. They have even said they had to reign it in because they would have stopped being able to function as a business, but they didn't remove it just limited it.

destinedaboss1 votes

Your home life had / has nothing to do with me, thanks for bringing it up though. Might want to use your psychology knowledge to look into why you are bringing up your home life to strangers on the internet.

You are so Naive. The loot system... LOL. It is called gambling. Give someone 75% of something (or the idea that they have 75% of it) and let them buy the rest. But package extras in that rest bundle, and get them to just keep on buying.

You supposedly have knowledge of behavior psychology, but have failed to see this. So either that knowledge is a lie, or you are such a hardcore fanboy you chose not to see it.

So lets dig into this making decisions for the game (LOL) - if that is the case, why did they sell the entire company to a chinese investment firm? Keep living in your fantasy.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

So I addressed your question and apologize for being rude, and you ignore the actual content of my argument in favor of insulting me in numerous ways, and acting aloof and arrogant. Then you make assumptions about me, and use them as a basis to claim I know nothing and call me a fanboy.

When you read, are you seeking to understand the ideas represented or are you just looking for more ammunition to prove your superiority?

On the topic of my knowledge: If you bothered to look up the topics I mention in the actual content of my argument that you didn't bother to read, you would have seen what I'm talking about. I know my shit.

About calling me a fanboy: I hate some things about Riot. I strongly disagree with some of their balance decisions. But they do not govern all of their decisions out of greed.

You aren't arguing to convince others or arguing to learn, all you seem to care about is trying to prove yourself superior to others.

Riot does not implement loot like you say here. They don't bait you into it, people who choose to buy crates/keys are unlocking content they don't have part of yet. And it's easy enough to use without spending money. If Riot only cared about profit they would have made it so you could only access it by spending money. I got two project skins for free without spending any money on the loot system. It is accessible and not gamble-bait. You want evidence of gambling-baiting go look at how the loot drop system for Warframe works.

We aren't even arguing about the original topic anymore. Come back when you have a valid point to make on that subject and stop wasting my time. Oh wait, you already made it.

{quoted}

The real problem is that riot will not stop the people from leveling up accounts using bots. Stopping that would force humans to level up accounts.

So really all you're doing now is trying to exert superiority unnecessarily over others.

You are a rude person. I'm done interacting with you.

destinedaboss1 votes

This is sad really. You really did not understand the content in your psych classes. I guess you missed the class on ego or something....

So I am supposedly trying to "exert superiority" or something? If that is the case, why have I never spoken about anyone personally... myself, you, anyone... only Riot.

Nice try though, you played the fake victim quite well. I would suggest moving on to broadway with that act.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

you still only respond to my argument with straw-man fallacies and only look for things to turn against me. What a waste of forum space.

I don't know why I'm surprised to see you still haven't noticed that I provided evidence to back my original argument.

{quoted}

I literally referenced what was implemented in Overwatch to counteract toxic chat.

My ideas are based on behavioral psychology, a proven technique that can modify and improve people's behaviors. See Behavior Extinction and Operant Conditioning.

Additionally:

{quoted}

So I am supposedly trying to "exert superiority" or something? If that is the case, why have I never spoken about anyone personally... myself, you, anyone... only Riot.

You have spoken about me personally. Your words are full of implications, direct questions of ability, and falsely representing my arguments.

Evidence:

Here, implying mental issues.

{quoted}

Your home life had / has nothing to do with me, thanks for bringing it up though. Might want to use your psychology knowledge to look into why you are bringing up your home life to strangers on the internet.

Here, direct statement.

{quoted}

You are so Naive.

Here, "know-nothing," "fanboy."

{quoted}

You supposedly have knowledge of behavior psychology, but have failed to see this. So either that knowledge is a lie, or you are such a hardcore fanboy you chose not to see it.

Here, implying ego.

{quoted}

This is sad really. You really did not understand the content in your psych classes. I guess you missed the class on ego or something....

And here, re-framing everything I've said to paint me as an 'actor' pretending to be a victim.

{quoted}

Nice try though, you played the fake victim quite well. I would suggest moving on to broadway with that act.

AeroWaffle2 votes

You point only applies to players that do not care what is on their account and don't care about the time required to reach level 30.

The amount of people who only play to piss people off are extremely small, and those people would be able to circumvent your proposal as well. All they need to do is troll in ways that they don't think will trigger any system.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That's why I'm proposing filters and changes that would not reveal to the toxic person the fact that they were being censored.

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