The support and the sightstone

BottleCapster·9/18/2013, 6:05:02 AM·5 votes·894 views

Transferring Xelnath's Vision/Support income thread into the new format.

What are the problems?

Supports

  1. Supports are expected not to last hit, and thus gain no income.
  2. Supports shoulder most of the gold burden for purchasing wards.
  3. Supports are expected to roam the map and ward.
  4. Supports are expected to buy expensive activated items
  5. Supports are suppose to be effective without gold revenue.
  6. Supports are most often tied to the Marksman Carry
  7. Supports do not attain an endgame fantasy due to vision expenditures.

Vision

  1. Wards are necessary to protect from persistent jungle aggression.
  2. Wards are necessary to observe important locations and objectives.
  3. Wards cost gold, from the character least equipped to afford them.
  4. Wards are the only way to reveal a specific area to move safely.
  5. Wards linger for a long time. (3 Minutes)
  6. Wards are important; so much so that others feel entitled to vision without contributing.

Response guideline: As a general request, I hope to keep posts concise to encourage open debate and not flood the forum with text walls. To that end, I Suggest a simple layout to your argument or suggestion.

  • Keep your points concise. State what you suggest, possibly bulleted or numbered.
  • Present following changes in order of their importance or progress.
  • State which points you are addressing
    • Use S for support and V for vision, followed by the numbers.
      • Ex. V5 for vision issue #5. or S3 for Support issue #3.
  • Closing statements (Short and sweet if possible during suggestions)

Xelnath's Original Thread

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3850681&highlight=damnit+morello

7 Comments

Chrissxy198910/3/2013, 9:11:23 AM4 votes

V1,6&S1,2,4: I often find myself in a spot were wards cost too much space w/e the role im playing and stop me from building pieces of my build. Therefore, I completly agree with having a special vision item slot in our inventory to buy a special item that would bring vision, protection against vision, or else.

V1-6: I think we should'nt be able to intereact directly with ''wards'' like killing it or dashing on it, but they should all be visible to all. Other items alternatives would offer that kind of playstyle and counter vision items. Also, IMO Denying vision is verry strong especially if it come with vision of its own(pink ward) and should be verry hard to get.

S1-6: Player should have to choose what are their playstyle and vision should be purchased and used for the whole team, and be a part of a carry's build that help them carry. Vision items should be with charges and could be upgraded or not(starting with a doran's tripwire). Clairvoyance use to feel good when i could ''Skillshot'' the map and predict the spot a sneaky opponent was hiding. i though it was a reward in itself. I think it would be a great idea to link enemy exposure time to vision with income. Vision items could now be another type revenue or gp5 depending on their skill using them(like last hitting). Combining different vision items on teamates would synergize and make vision a team effort.

V1-6,S1-6 Here are some team/vision items examples resembling the Season3 boot changes:

  • V1,2 Sightstones: ''Wards'' without the health; it could be upgraded as either oracle wards/more quantity/more sight range/radar (with a wave that periodicly see through walls)/binocular ward that can see farther in one selected direction/stealth ward. Those ward would exel in defending a position without roaming, but could be seen by aproaching enemy.

  • V4-6&S2,4-6 Clairvoyance: Use Charges, cd and a max range for the skillshot active(effect like pantheon's ult range and warning), could be ugraded to either see a larger chunk of the map/have less cd/more charges/more range /give movement speed boost to ally moving toward this direction. This would have a more offencive playstyle than the ward.

  • V1,4-6&S4,7 Skill poles: A interactive pole with the ability to use skills on or teleport to and give tiny vision. Enemies and allies would be able to step on it to crush it, or basic attack or cast a spell on it to break the pole. Attack dashes skills(rengar, wukong, talon...) would work even for the player that placed it, but would destroy the pole. The pole would come in slightly larger number than wards, so one having them could setup a playground for mobility and teamplay in view of a gank or teamfight, escape dodging ect. The pole upgrade with either larger vision/longer range/skillshot blocker/more charges/special effect like speed boost when you pass near it(for champion with no dashs)/ or extra ''life'' for more interaction. Good for mobility and tank.

  • V5 S4 Shroud: Allow the caracter to be unoticed by other vision items for a period of time per charge. Unlike other vision item, it would give gold when the charges are used. The shroud upgrage in either more charges/vision coruptor(can activate the item while beeing seen by a vision device to destroy it/a small movement speed boost while beeing seen by vision device /take control of the device/slow to the vision device's owner... mainly for junglers and assassins.

  • V1-3,6 S2,4,5 Doran's Tripwire: 2-3 charges that would give no vision, only sound warning and/or slight slow. Cheap awareness tool to begin with...

  • V1-4-6 S6 Oracle: Use 1 charge for vision of stealthy champions nerby for a short period, upgrades with buffs/exhaust/ like abilities... Good for squishy carry.

I realize doing all this would be A HUGE change to the game, but i can already see how it would complement the game and encourage diversity of playstyle on champions. These items could even help other problems like casters with no mobility that are'nt viable anymore.

BottleCapster9/18/2013, 6:20:40 AM2 votes

Ok, To give a start, Here is my suggestion.

  • Create dedicated ward slots for each character.

  • Impose a limit on placed wards per character (2 sight, 2 vision)

    • Character's can each hold up to 2 visions per back.
    • Wriggle's and Ruby sightstone allow a 3rd sight ward. Explorer's is independant.
  • (Sightstone still functions the same, wriggle's replenishes 1 ward every 3 minutes)

  • Revert Oracle's to being a risk/reward item, lost on death.

  • Add a warding section to the tutorial to inform new players about it.

Problems intended to address: S (2,3,7) V (3,6)

Kamai9/18/2013, 7:07:36 AM1 votes

Ok, I'll add into this.

  • Remove wards from the shop.
    • Add an item like Wriggle's Lantern for AP champions, and also add a Doran's that grants 2/1 sightstone wards.
    • Add some way of destroying wards, either by introducing sweeper actives to SR, or by augments on Sightstone/Wriggle's items.
      • Now to get mass vision, no one person can shoulder all of it (since non-stacking actives), and everyone has the option to have wards in a 6 item build.

Addresses S(2,7), V(1,3,6)

ShadowKnight12248/13/2014, 4:53:06 AM1 votes

I feel that a very simple fix is to turn the yellow trinket into a mini-sightstone. The yellow trinket by itself gives you a single ward that lasts for 60 seconds, on a 60 second cooldown (I understand what riot is trying to do by making it last 30 secs pre-9, but it's just aggravating the vision/support problem, particularly on low ELO).

For a 475 gold upgrade, you turn it into a mini-sightstone that provides no health but holds 3 charges and is refreshed every time you return to the shop. These new wards last 120 seconds. Since the warding limit is 3 sight wards per champion, this allows every champion to do so. Supports and junglers still buy the regular Sightstone and run Sweeping Lens, rather than yellow trinket, thereby allowing everyone to reach the full extent of their warding capacity (15 sight wards per team).