Would you rather

Nucleophilic atk·Feb 28, 2015·2 votes·1,330 views

Be on a team with a 10/0/10 person that is carrying but toxic, or a 0/10/0 person that is nice but trolling? Just trying to get an idea. Obviously the ideal situation is neither lol, but for the sake of argument, that is not an option. Also, this is a ranked match. Just played a game where the 1/8 poppy was all "report the person carrying me for being rude" lol. Personally, I would pick the 10/0/10 because they probably wouldn't be bitching at me since I don't feed, and because if it is that annoying, you could just mute. Thoughts?

50 Comments

Clint OrrisFeb 28, 20152 votes

10/0/10 toxic because a win is a win. You don't get through life by being nice all the time. Because watching a terrible nice guy just be BAD would just make me even more upset ya know? I would just suck it up and accept the win lol.

Nucleophilic atkFeb 28, 20151 votes

Agreed.

SirsirFeb 28, 20151 votes

Mute button wins this one for me, toxic

Nucleophilic atkFeb 28, 20151 votes

Yea, I agree. I'm not sure why people make such a huge deal about "meh toxic" when there is a mute button lol.

JubbinautFeb 28, 20151 votes

Whichever one means I don't have to deal with a jerk makes me happy.

Almost everything else is secondary to that.

Nucleophilic atkFeb 28, 20151 votes

Ok, so for clarification, you would rather have the 0/10/0 person that is nice than the 10/0 being toxic?

JubbinautFeb 28, 20152 votes

To apply my statement to the context, I'd rather avoid the toxic player. Score is irrelevant to my opinion on the matter.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Okay, gotcha.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

I misread some of your initial post. I think it's notable that trolling is an intentional behavior intended specifically to ruin someone else's game. That is, by definition not "nice."

Trolling is just another form of toxicity.

Between a rager and a troll, I'd choose the rager.

Between a toxic player of any sort, and an inexperienced player, I'd choose the inexperienced player.

ApplesauceyMar 1, 20151 votes

If the answer is ever you would rather have the 0/10 person then the 10/0 person you need to get your ass out of ranked.

JubbinautMar 1, 20152 votes

And see, to me, if the answer is ever you would rather have the asshole than the guy who tries his best, then you should probably find a new hobby.

Besides which, you're misrepresenting my point. I care more about how a person acts than I do about what their score is. That does not mean that I don't care about that score at all.

ApplesauceyMar 1, 20151 votes

I'm not misrepresenting your point at all. If you ever care more about how they talk to you then how they play you shouldn't be in ranked. Ranked isn't a queue for fun. It's a queue for people who want to compete and test their limits., and try to win every match. If at any point you would take the 0/10 over the 10/0 you shouldn't be in that queue.

Russian DollMar 1, 20151 votes

You didnt talk about ranked games in your first post?

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

The problem is, we're arguing about two different things. I'm saying I'd rather play with a friendly player than a jerk. You're saying you'd rather play with a dominant player than one who's having a bad game.

I've simplified the initial post in one direction. You've simplified it in a different direction. And I have not at any point indicated that I disagree with you: if the question was "would you rather have a teammate go 10/0 or 0/10?" my answer would certainly be the 10/0 guy. But that's not the question he asked, nor is it the question I answered.

Take the flip-side of that: If the question was "would you rather have a teammate who's an asshole, or who's a friendly guy?" what would you answer?

This is basically the entirety of my issue with the original post: it's a false dichotomy (or Black-or-White fallacy). To his credit, OP seems to be aware of it.

You prioritize score over attitude. That's fine - though I don't see how it fits with your "test your limits" ideas. I prioritize attitude over score. That's also fine - I have plenty of reasons for that, not the least of which is that I find it easier to help someone who's being friendly turn their game around that to work with someone who's being a jerk.

You might note, there, that I didn't say anything about "fun."

Russian DollFeb 28, 20151 votes

Well, I rather have a 0/10/0 nice than a toxic player. When people are toxic it can influence badly how other people are playing. my best best friend and I have been playing for roughly a month together and she is not getting better. People arent nice at all with her and she tends to take it personnally, so yeah I can have fun with someone who isnt feeding intentionnally, if (s)he is willing to accept help and I see (s)he is trying hard not to feed, I will be happy. Sometimes bad games happen, some matchup are really hard. Ofc we can ignore toxic players but they can say imoortant things so I rather not to.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

If their language controls how you play, wouldn't you just mute? I've never had a problem when someone being "toxic" has made me play bad. If they are being a dick and distracting you, use common sense and mute them lol.

Russian DollMar 1, 20151 votes

i'm not talking for me, i'm speaking for weak people. Of course bad player will be worse if youre only way to have fun is by flaming them. In fact they will be Really worse. if they are mad/sad it will influence. So Like I said, sometimes they got something useful to say, i'm not muting them. To be honest I dont really care, i dont usually read. I dont know if you read what I wrote, but my bf sucks, she knows she does. Her computer sucks too (shes playing with 7fps this is awful and a lot mote difficult I dont even know how it is possible to olay as Im used to a lot mooooooore) , so when people are toxic, I rather start feeding even if I was 30/5/X carrying the game with Kat. I cant fuckin give a victory to people like you who doesnt care about others [feelings]^^ Lol

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

I honestly hope your friend is smart enough not to play ranked with that computer.

Russian DollMar 1, 20151 votes

Well, she wants to rank, but there is no way i'm gonna play rank with her. XD

ApplesauceyMar 1, 20151 votes

If the answer is ever you would rather have the 0/10 person then the 10/0 person you need to get your ass out of ranked.

Russian DollMar 1, 20151 votes

Its not about the 0/10 or 10/0, its about the attitude. Of course I want a NICE GOOD PLAYER 10/0, but a piece of shit no. Anyway I dont play ranked games, I'm not good enough, I've been olaying for roughly a month and I dont think I'm ready.

Ice Weasel XMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ximwldgM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-28T20:34:20.907+0000)

Be on a team with a 10/0/10 person that is carrying but toxic, or a 0/10/0 person that is nice but trolling?

That doesn't make much sense. Trolls generally aren't nice about it. If they're trolling, they're intentionally ruining your game. "I apologize guys, but I am going to feed intentionally. Nothing against you, I promise." That's worded politely, but it's still not nice.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Basically someone not being toxic. I can go to ranked and be the nicest person every. But I go a champ I've never played before and feed. I can still be nice about it lol.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

That's true, but that's not trolling. Playing poorly doesn't equate to trolling, even if it's your first pvp match with a champion.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Playing a champ in ranked that you have never played before is certainly trolling.

JubbinautMar 1, 20152 votes

I disagree. It's certainly a bad idea. I might go so far as to say it's a stupid thing to do. But I wouldn't consider it trolling.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Then what is trolling?

JubbinautMar 1, 20152 votes

Trolling would be willfully and actively attempting to create a negative experience for other players. Intentionally feeding, announcing allied positions, using abilities to negatively affect teammates (Trundle pillar, Anivia wall, etc), and making decisions that are known to be poor (AP Riven, for example) all fall under that category.

Making less-than-effective decisions does not. It might be considered foolish, careless, and maybe even stupid, but not trolling. Keep in mind, the goal of a troll is to create a negative experience for his teammates. The goal of nearly any other player is to try their best to win.

Now, that's not to say that a troll can't use a first-time pick as part of his trolling strategy, only to say that it is - in and of itself - not a trolling behavior.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

I'm pretty sure if you pick a champion that you have never played before, you are intentionally creating a negative experience for your team. You know that you are going to play shitty. Just as shitty as building AP Riven.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

By that logic, no one should have ever picked anything (and Riot should probably stop making new champs - it creates trolls). After all, everyone had to play a champ for the first time at some point. Were you intentionally creating a negative experience for your team the first time you played Caitlyn? Or were you genuinely trying to do your best with a champ that you had limited understanding of?

Also, keep in mind that there's a powerful difference between "intentionally" and "knowingly."

A player picking something they've never played before may know that they might create a negative experience, but that isn't necessarily their intention.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Ahh, see, that is where we are having the confusion. I am not referring to playing a champ for the first time in ranked mode, I am talking about a ranked game being your first time ever playing that champion. That is trolling. Normals is completely fine since that is where you go to learn champs lol.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

There's no confusion. There's not a lot of room to confuse your statement: "I'm pretty sure if you pick a champion that you have never played before, you are intentionally creating a negative experience for your team."

But even this shift - which I expected, despite having responded to your actual statement rather than the known intent of that statement - doesn't change my point. Trolling behavior is trolling behavior regardless of the game mode. So if playing a champ for the first time in normals is not trolling, then playing a champ for the first time in ranked is not trolling.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

So basically you think nothing is trolling then. If intentionally trying to lose the game for your team is not trolling to you, then I think our convo can end here. You have a pretty warped view on things.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

That's neither what I said, nor what I meant, nor in any way connected to my actual claims.

As I said previously:

Trolling would be willfully and actively attempting to create a negative experience for other players. Intentionally feeding, announcing allied positions, using abilities to negatively affect teammates (Trundle pillar, Anivia wall, etc), and making decisions that are known to be poor (AP Riven, for example) all fall under that category.

But first-time picking a champion in Ranked and trying your best to win is not intentionally trying to lose the game. It may be used as part of such, but is not so in and of itself.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

You are not trying your best to win if you pick a champ in ranked that you have never played before. Simple as that.

I'm failing to see the difference in your AP Riven example. You say "making decisions that are known to be poor", how the hell does picking a champ that you have never played before in a ranked game not fall into that category?

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ximwldgM,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-01T20:22:39.444+0000)

You are not trying your best to win if you pick a champ in ranked that you have never played before. Simple as that.

You're right. I apologize for the unspoken aspect of my statement. I felt it was so evident it didn't need inclusion, which was obviously a poor decision on my part. Allow me to correct it:

"But first-time picking a champion in Ranked, and trying your best to use that champion to win is not intentionally trying to lose the game."

I'm failing to see the difference in your AP Riven example. You say "making decisions that are known to be poor", how the hell does picking a champ that you have never played before in a ranked game not fall into that category?

AP Riven is impossible. She gains exactly nothing from AP on any skills, so all the gold she spends is wasted. It's not that she doesn't work, it's that she can't work.

Picking a champ that you've never played before - but may have a decent grasp of, conceptually - because (for example) it's a hard counter to your lane opponent isn't impossible. It's perhaps inadvisable. It's probably not the best plan. But it's fully possible to still do well despite that inexperience.

There is, after all, a difference between "making less than optimal decisions" and "making decisions that are known to be poor." If you're saying the former equates to trolling, then every player is a troll.

IzbizMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ximwldgM,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-01T01:52:24.276+0000)

Playing a champ in ranked that you have never played before is certainly trolling.

No. It really ins;t. It's something else, but it's not trolling.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

How not trolling?

EL HAMSTEROMar 1, 20153 votes

then where is the line? what if I have played a champion only 5 times but I really like him? am i trolling if i take him? what if I am a pro jungle but I feel like playing adc even though im much worse at it? am I trolling?

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

I can see where that argument can be made. But I'm sure you're going to at least try at adc :) so not trolling.

Also, with even 5 matches played with a champion, you at least know what his abilities do and can try to play the game.

Ice Weasel XMar 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ximwldgM,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-03-01T01:17:46.901+0000)

Basically someone not being toxic. I can go to ranked and be the nicest person every. But I go a champ I've never played before and feed. I can still be nice about it lol.

I'd say that intentionally screwing a game is being toxic since it instantly puts the team under stress. If you knowingly do something to lower your team's chances, that's not nice.

A more realistic option would be "a bad player who is nice."

Dingding123Mar 1, 20151 votes

Honestly my record this season has gone from 60-45 to 83-87 so yes I would appreciate people who knew what they were doing over those who weren't even trying right now

SlackerboyTCMar 1, 20151 votes

How about neither

ZarxisMar 1, 20151 votes

I can mute a verbally toxic player and have a good, fun game. You can say whatever you want to me in game, and I generally won't get miffed over it. Mute and move on; arguing wastes time and prevents you from using your keyboard to play the game. I can't make a friendly player do better if they're feeding. I generally can't outdo my enemies after they've been fed by said friendly player. It feels terrible to confront an enemy champion that's ridiculously powerful because your allies are idiots or trolls.

The verbally toxic player gives me a chance to win. The friendly troll usually doesn't. Toxic>Troll

KougaMar 1, 20151 votes

If you mean the 0/10 is unskilled, but is nice, then I'm fine with it.

Honestly some of my most fun games were ones that I lost. I had one where I said "Fill" in Champ select (cuz that's how I roll) and immediately someone else said "fill" then it became a competition. "FILL OR FEED" and "No, you Fill and then I'll Fill" and shit like that. So pretty soon we just said, "Let's all random, then fill lanes accordingly". And honestly, I had fun with it.

I mean, we lost...

But it was still fun.

Same thing when I play with my friends. We lose a ton, but we'll still enjoy ourselves. My friend Maribel and I would pick a theme and go bot lane together (one time it was "Terrors Of The Deep" - naut & Fizz, which actually worked super well. Another time it was "Animal Kingdom" with Wukong and Alistair)

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

I'm assuming your example is in normals, in which case, I'm all for it lol. I'm also perfectly fine with losing. I have had bad games and plenty of them lol. I'm talking about the guy who insta locks Riven top, gets countered, proceeds to try to duel, dies, then tries to dive the enemy 5 more times in lane, then tries to 1v3 their team because #LC$BIGPLAY$.

ActuallyArrowMar 1, 20151 votes

Troll: "Oh how are you today? Me, I'm just fine, thank you for asking. I am just going to games and feeding, its fun. You guys are good at this game, I do apologize for my behavior, I just find it fun to feed." game ends "I hope you all have a great day, and sorry ever so much for feeding purposely to throw the game! Its just a hobby of mine. :)"

GrevSevMar 1, 20151 votes

The toxic one easily

I'm toxic 8 games out of 10 and I'm positive and carrying most of the time.

I'm not here to keep feelings in tact. If you dive a 6k health Chogath or irellia then i'm going to bitch and scream until you mute me. Maybe hopfully they wont do the shit in someone elses game.

Nucleophilic atkMar 1, 20151 votes

Lol, this summarizes my feelings perfectly.

JubbinautMar 1, 20151 votes

The question, to me, is this: Is raging at such a player effective enough to be worth the cost to group cohesion and the risk to your account?

If so, then have at. If not, then perhaps it's worth looking for another approach.