CC counters every champ minus a select few. Saying, "lol Zed has no weakness but he has counterplay cuz CC" or "just CC kalista" is not a reliable counterplay argument. When something counters just about every single champion, it is not counterplay.
Zmuecat15 votesTelling you to 'just CC the fucker' is telling you a form of countering a champion, it's just not as well worded as it should be.
Like if someone said "Just CC Kat," well if your team wasn't in range to follow up, what did you just do? Annoy her.
Now, if someone tells you "Just CC Kat when she ults, this stops most if her damage, and now she's in the middle of your team," now you've been told how to play against her.
Same thing for Zed. CCing during his ult. Depending on the length, it removes most of the damage he could cause and let's you walk/limp away.
For Kalista, it'd be more "She has a really exploitable early game. She cannot cancel her AA, and as a result will stand still for about a good deal of time. As such, you needs to poke/AA/initate when she does this. One or two early punishes will cause most bad Kalistas to back off, delaying her annoying late game. Targeted CC also helps loads."
So yes, CC is a counter to every champion, but it is a reliable argument when you tell people how and when to do it, not just to do it.
Partholonian1 votesSame thing for Zed. CCing during his ult. Depending on the length, it removes most of the damage he could cause and let's you walk/limp away.
Or blow him up, because like Kat, he's probably in the middle of your team and half a screen away from his team. Assassin play patterns are really strong in 1v1 (except against tanks), but high risk in teamfights.
Kazaashi3 votesOr blow him up, because like Kat, he's probably in the middle of your team and half a screen away from his team. Assassin play patterns are really strong in 1v1 (except against tanks), but high risk in teamfights.
I think in a team fight, the CC is there to do both things, make sure the carry doesn't pop and the diver is destroyed.
Clint Orris1 votesBut what DOESN'T cc counter tho? It's just like saying "get her health to 0". Because that counters everyone, therefore cannot be used in an argument.
Major Sparkles1 votesSure it can. CC is the counter everything argument. What else do you want? "JUST DO MORE DAMAGE BEFORE THEY KILL YOU!!!" Silly.
FoggyPaws1 votesHit it until it dies
Zmuecat1 votesChampions with CC immunity windows.
Champions that take QSS, Hourglass, Mikaels or the summoner cleanse and use them well.
People who can reliable dodge or bait CC (mainly non targeted CC) to reduce or null it's effectiveness.
People who wait until you blow your CC in a team fight to take advantage of the fact they can now do whatever they want.
B1naryB0t1 votes
0 HP? I disagree.
Partholonian6 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-10T20:46:13.153+0000)
CC counters every champ minus a select few.
That's not really true though. CC affects every champ minus a select few (assuming you're referring to things like 
), but it only really counters the ones who will be dead by the time CC wears off -- i.e., squishies, and especially squishy divers (who will probably be in the middle of the enemy team when they get CC'd).
Tanks can just take the CC, soak up damage, and go back to what they were doing (and usually 35% faster, too), so it doesn't counter them to nearly the same degree. Long range pokers are hard to hit with most CC in the first place, and if you do, you still have to go through their entire team to follow up on them, they don't come to you like Zed.
And then there's the champs that are really countered by CC because they rely on interruptible channels, like 
...
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI understand the point you are trying to make, but disagree with it. Example: Voli's job is to run in and fuk up your carry. Fiddles fears him away. Voli's job is now lost and he has been countered.
Just because you don't die, doesn't mean you weren't countered.
Narasimha1 votesVoli actually did his job pretty well. Fidd had to use his fear on him, which means that fear can no longer be used on higher priority targets. That means his ADC is a bit safer than he was before.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI'll take Fidd's damage and a 4v5 with no tank anyday lol. Their ADC isn't safer with no Voli to peel for him.
Narasimha3 votesWhat...happened to the Voli? Its still a 5v5, the Voli didn't magically disappear. All he lost was his engaging tool. Fidd lost most of his lockdown.
Snow Taradien3 votesYou violently underestimate the power of a good bear
Kapppaccino2 votesI mean, ur support should have cc for kalista, if she gets fed it's cus you guys suck and don't know how to use cc
Nucleophilic atk3 votesWant to reply to the thread topic now?
Kapppaccino1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T21:03:04.138+0000)
Want to reply to the thread topic now?
Amigo. Once kalista is fed there's no "stopping" her bunny hops. The counter play is her early game. Don't feed her. Don't let her farm. You WILL have a support with cc with you so early game if she engages on you, cc her and she's dead. Idk what more you want? You're basically not gonna be happy until riot removes her passive, which is stupid since it adds a fun touch to the game. I love playing against kalista. It's like trying to catch a rabbit :3
IcyPepper3 votesYou cc any adc and they're dead.
Graves has a weaker late-game due to his range, but Vayne is hard-countered early game by early game burst from Graves and Lucian. That's an example of counterplay.
Mobility is a little more difficult. Kalista has a much easier time dodging Blitz hooks or Leona E's because she basically has a Vayne tumble with a 1 second cooldown (divided by her attack speed).
Not QQing, but I'm just pointing that out.
Kazaashi1 votesYou cc any adc and they're dead.
Graves has a weaker late-game due to his range, but Vayne is hard-countered early game by early game burst from Graves and Lucian. That's an example of counterplay.
Mobility is a little more difficult. Kalista has a much easier time dodging Blitz hooks or Leona E's because she basically has a Vayne tumble with a 1 second cooldown (divided by her attack speed).
Not QQing, but I'm just pointing that out.
Then how is picking a bot lane with extra CC not counter play against Kalista?
IcyPepper3 votesBecause extra CC is counterplay against most if not every adc.
Like, Vayne is countered by Grave's early burst, and Jinx's late-game outscales Caitlyn's while Caitlyn's early game can poke Jinx down rather safely. That's counterplay, not just the cc.
My main gripe with kalista is her rend, tbh. Tho, if you want to go the CC counterplay route, I believe Taric's stun is point-and-click (haven't played him, so I don't know) alongside Annie's Q, so those would probably be decent against her.
Honestly, if I had to suggest a change, I'd give a damage cap to rend and reduce her aa range to compensate for the mobility.
Kazaashi2 votesBecause extra CC is counterplay against most if not every adc.
Like, Vayne is countered by Grave's early burst, and Jinx's late-game outscales Caitlyn's while Caitlyn's early game can poke Jinx down rather safely. That's counterplay, not just the cc.
My main gripe with kalista is her rend, tbh. Tho, if you want to go the CC counterplay route, I believe Taric's stun is point-and-click (haven't played him, so I don't know) alongside Annie's Q, so those would probably be decent against her.
Honestly, if I had to suggest a change, I'd give a damage cap to rend and reduce her aa range to compensate for the mobility.
Conclusion: CC is counterplay, its just more effective against some people than others.
Kapppaccino2 votesYou can't say CC isn't counter play and then it is.
Conclusion: CC is counterplay, its just more effective against some people than others.
cc is counterplay. almost every champ has some sort of cc or some way to avoid death.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesNo. It is effective against about every champ in the game. CC Cait is the same as CC Kalista. Therefore, you can't just say, "counterplay is to CC her" as that is a stupid argument. Obviously CC shuts her down, but given CC shuts down everything, it isn't exactly a counterplay argument.
Kazaashi2 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-03-10T22:25:36.237+0000)
No. It is effective against about every champ in the game. CC Cait is the same as CC Kalista. Therefore, you can't just say, "counterplay is to CC her" as that is a stupid argument. Obviously CC shuts her down, but given CC shuts down everything, it isn't exactly a counterplay argument.
Counterplay isn't binary. It is much more complex and fluid. Some methods of counterplay are more effective at shutting down certain champs.
Example:
Would you take extra CC against an Alistar/Sivir lane?
Of course not, because they counter CC pretty well.
Eleshakai2 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T21:03:04.138+0000)
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There's no point in responding to your topics... you're just constantly trying to get a circlejerk going to bolster your faltering ego by posting hot button topics in the hopes people will agree with you.
It's getting kind of predictable.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesLol, thanks for following me around. I now understand what the other fella meant.
Eleshakai1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-10T22:51:20.143+0000)
Lol, thanks for following me around. I now understand what the other fella meant.
I actually didn't notice who had posted this thread until I got into it... I was planning to discuss the topic, but then I saw it was you in the OP and I thought it'd be important to let people know you're just trolling.
I just click on random topics on the apge, I don't look at who posts them until after I read the OP... and only then if the post sounds like trolling.
Kazaashi2 votesIf a Zed is CC'd during his death mark, he deal less dmg, which makes it deal less dmg when it pops. I don't understand how that is not counterplay or a weakness?
What does counter play mean to you?
DrCyanide11 votesCC 
during his ult, same thing happens.
CC 
during his ult and walk away, same thing happens
CC 
during her ult and walk away, same thing happens
CC 
after he fires his ult, same thing happens
CC 
after he lands his ult, same thing happens
Wow! It's almost like this incredibly generic "just cc them" advice works on anyone who has an ult that has some sort of damage over time.
But wait, there's more!
and more that I'm probably skipping have ultimates that can be made less effective by CC!
That's the point the OP is trying to get across. "CC them" is so generically applicable to champions it's not worth even pointing out. Keep in mind, the list above is only ultimates that can be cancelled/mitigated with CC. many champions do a lot of damage without their ultimates.
If a champion's only listable counter is "Just use that stuff that works on everyone", then there's an issue with that champion. "CC" and "Exaust" will limit almost any champion's damage output and make them more likely to die. Tell me something specific to them. What to wait for, what to dodge, what to bait, etc.
Kazaashi4 votesIf a champion's only listable counter is "Just use that stuff that works on everyone", then there's an issue with that champion. "CC" and "Exaust" will limit almost any champion's damage output and make them more likely to die. Tell me something specific to them. What to wait for, what to dodge, what to bait, etc.
If you can't get over the fact that CC is the most effective form of counterplay against certain champs then, I dunno. Maybe instead of dismissing it, you could ask about what types of CC are effective against X champ.
Tip: A big mistake I see a lot is people use flash too early or incorrectly.
DrCyanide1 votesIf you can't get over the fact that CC is the most effective form of counterplay against certain champs then, I dunno. Maybe instead of dismissing it, you could ask about what types of CC are effective against X champ.
Tip: A big mistake I see a lot is people use flash too early or incorrectly.
.
Those are the only champions that can say "I don't care about your CC". Tanks are often comfortable taking CC to the face, since it means that a teammate isn't taking it.
So outside of those edge cases, CC is the most effective counterplay against everyone!
I'm not dismissing that CC is effective. It doesn't matter if you CC Zed or Teemo, it's still giving you a window to attack them without retaliation. What I'm arguing is that if CC is the only counterplay a champion has, they are better off than every other champion in the game, because they have some of the lowest amounts of counterplay in the game.
Narasimha3 votesIts not about just the CC, its about how much the CC affects them. Stun a Cho'gath, or a Gragas, Or a Nautilus, or a Sion. They're not going to care too much. Now stun a Vayne, or a Yasuo, or a Yi, or a Fiora, and suddenly, they've been crippled. All (ok most) champions are effective against CC. But CC does affect some champions more than it does others.
DrCyanide1 votesTanks are often comfortable taking CC to the face, since it means that a teammate isn't taking it.
The only one on your list that you could argue I didn't cover was Gragas. I'll concede that some fighters are tanky enough to not be devastated by CC.
Narasimha1 votesIts not really about the tankiness. Its more about "what do they lose if they're cced?" For most champions like this, they don't lose much. On the other hand, cc a carry or a mage, and thats valuable dps/burst lost.
Moonshade1 votesIf a Zed is CC'd during his death mark, he deal less dmg, which makes it deal less dmg when it pops. I don't understand how that is not counterplay or a weakness?
What does counter play mean to you?
He wants something unique to every champ not something that hinders every champion. His argument is that if CC is SO strong it counters everyone, and a champion has no counters save getting CC locked and murdered while they can't do anything then they are broken. I don't agree with his opinion but I can see what he's saying
Kazaashi2 votesHe wants something unique to every champ not something that hinders every champion. His argument is that if CC is SO strong it counters everyone, and a champion has no counters save getting CC locked and murdered while they can't do anything then they are broken. I don't agree with his opinion but I can see what he's saying
I refer you to my last post in this thread. That opinion is flawed, just as the "lol, noob just CC him" one is. It's too simplistic.
CC doesn't counter almost everyone, it affects almost everyone.
It also has a more potent affect against certain champions, based on how their kit works.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesWell... I disagree. I think CC counters kalista because of her insane mobility.
It doesn't really counter Zed, because he can get his damage off either way.
I play a lot of Katarina, and hard CC is definitely a counter to her. Some champions are countered by CC. That's the reality. On the other hand, I don't know who would claim that Zed is countered by CC. That's a bit silly, imo.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesRight. I forgot that stunning Zed does nothing to him. My bad.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesIt's not that it does nothing (obviously)... It's that I don't feel that it's as effective as cc on other champs. I think a better counter to zed is damage prevention. Just building armor does a lot against him, and hourglass is even more helpful because you can completely dodge the ult damage if it's used properly. Those are better counters than cc.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesYes, because stomping him from doing any damage is worse than lowering his damage. Not too mention how stupid armor is against him with the pene that he racks up.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesI'm confused about your point. I thought I was agreeing with you that claiming cc counters zed is a bit silly.
On other champs, I feel it's a valid point.
Another great example of a champ that isn't countered by cc: 
He keeps doing his damage, stunned or not.
The term "countered" means that it shuts a champion down very well if done correctly. This doesn't mean cc isn't effective. It means that it doesn't shut that champion down. Kalista, if stunned, loses most of her advantage. If you can tie her down, you can kill her. Katarina, if stunned, loses her entire ulti (almost all her damage). Zed at least still has autos with, as you pointed out, tons of AD and pen. You stopped some damage stunning him, but didn't shut him down, imo. Just delayed him somewhat.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesNo. My point is that CC counters just about every single champion in the game. Therefore, it is stupid to say something like, "lol zed has much counterplay...just CC him" since it applies to basically every single champion.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesWell, then your point is equally silly. CC doesn't counter Olaf, for instance.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI'm terribly sorry for using phrases past your comprehension. Instead of saying "just about every single champion", what should I use? Almost all?
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesHaha such superiority. that isn't countering. cc is effective against most champs, but it doesn't counter them. it doesn't counter taric, or malph, or ali, etc. so many champions.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesRight, stopping Taric from healing and stunning your ADC is certainly not countering him.
ModKnightsKemplar3 votesIt really isn't... he still has aura, and those things are such long cd that putting them off for a short time just isn't that valuble.
Again, not saying cc is not effective. It is. It's just not so effective that it can properly be called countering.
Kazaashi2 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=0007000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T23:57:05.145+0000)
Right, stopping Taric from healing and stunning your ADC is certainly not countering him.
Greivous Wounds would be a proper counter to Taric's heal as it cuts it's effectiveness by 50% (or more).
Mikal Pikal1 votesStuns are usually very short duration. Stopping Taric from healing and stunning isn't a big deal at all because (1) he can just cast them again in a second or two and (2) you just wasted a stun on taric that could have been used on someone else.
You are really failing to grasp the obvious point that CC counters some champs more than others. To say CC counters katarina is true since she is squishy and has to jump into your team. You can interrupt her long-cooldown damage ability and blow her up in just a few seconds. She is then useless for the rest of the fight. If you stun Taric, then...nothing happens.
Kazaashi2 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=AbdNLc3N,comment-id=000700010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T23:09:34.544+0000)
No. My point is that CC counters just about every single champion in the game. Therefore, it is stupid to say something like, "lol zed has much counterplay...just CC him" since it applies to basically every single champion.
I wouldn't say that it is stupid, just a gross oversimplification. The reason CC is especially effective Zed isn't just because of the CC, but how CC interacts with his kit and intended play style.
It is equally bad to say "lol zed has much counterplay...just CC him" as it is to say "CC isn't a form of counter play against Zed, cause it hurts almost everyone."