. I honestly don't care if you think they are OP or not, but I am sick of seeing them in every single game I play. Every single game.
If you want diversity rito, you can't nerf everyone but these champs. "Let's nerf mana across the board and not expect Zed to become strong." "Lets nerf jungle so much that only a few champs can reliably play it."
These do not create diversity.
Raptamei34 votes"We want to create jungle variety. Therefore we nerf most junglers out of the game."
Nucleophilic atk12 votesPretty much how I see it. They said they wanted to stop really early ganks or whatever. Pretty sure Lee and J4 where the only ones good at doing that lmfao.
Junkο1 votesI don't understand how Riot doesn't see the problem with jungle when the newest champion released, who is a jungler, cannot clear more than 2 camps without recalling
Nucleophilic atk5 votesLol, she was OP as tits before they nerfed her, though. I hate her. If she is strong enough to be good in the jungle, then she is stupid strong as a fighter.
Junkο5 votesEven before the nerfs, she still needed to back after the second or third camp (source: i played her). After she got Devourer+Hydra her damage got crazy though (and it still is)
Sammystorm3 votesnon tank junglers have a lot harder time in the jungle then they use to. Tank junglers with aoe can clear very well currently.
captainkaiger1 votesYou must not be playing Nautilus or Sejuani then, because whenever I play them (Sejuani especially) I have to back after 2 camps, and not be able to even get my Tier 2 jungle item. As much as I love both of them, and understand that their power comes with their ganks, they need something to help them with early clear.
Meanwhile, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Fiddle, and Nunu can all clear 4plus camps, Fiddle and Nunu specifically. I usually play Vi jung, but after getting the important buffs, I feel I NEED to back, get the Tier 2, and start ganking.
exiledFromBadmen4 votesI can survive the 3rd camp as Sejuani. My record was 34 HP :)
Mad Hit Monkey3 votesI must be doing something wrong, because I usually clear 4-6 camps with Nautilus, presuming the enemy jungler doesn't do any counter-jungling to make things difficult for me.
Ximlee1 votesI usually make it from Krugs to Wolves with Sej and a utility mastery page. I could tell you my setup if you'd like?
captainkaiger1 votesI can usually clear, Krugs, Wolves, Red. But if I try that blue buff, I'd die right away.
Ximlee1 votesCan you take raptors along the way?
captainkaiger1 votesHa, nope! Those little bastards are tough. I call them the chickens, but they fight like velociraptors
Ximlee1 votesTerrifying little beasts! I'll play some Sejuani tonight and see if I can still make it through, if so you might be interested in my mastery page?
Kairya1 votesI Play Seju a lot in current Jungle and can do 4 camps. I tried all of the starting points, red works best. Start red, do wolves, blue, and then gromp. Then back and you can buy your first jungle-item upgrade, 2 red potions and a (pink) vision ward. I also use that mastery that grants you a small shield every time you go back. It's not a lot but it does compensate a little damage early on. Instead of doing gromp, it's sometimes also possible to do a first gank, but in most situations I can't really recommend it.
Otherwise I put my first three skill-points into W-E-Q in this order, but I think thats pretty common.
agbudar1 votes[{quoted}](name=SN2 Surpriser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oAGvUoTr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-01T17:03:00.771+0000)
Pretty much how I see it. They said they wanted to stop really early ganks or whatever. Pretty sure Lee and J4 where the only ones good at doing that lmfao.
rammus was doing it too but then they nerfed taunt and his mana now he can't sustain for the life of him.
ow you think you can make an actual contribution with 
?? forget it lee sin will have ganked twice before you made your first clear.
Arcade Andrew12 votes"We want to create jungle variety. Therefore we nerf most junglers out of the game."
Fiddle and nunu I have been picking as junglers just because of the level 2-3 dragon advantage but then their ganks suck and if your team loses teamfights or lane those dragons dont mean shit
Kalarepa2 votesWe nerfed Sejuani's burst, because fuck you Sejuani players. Play Jarvan instead.
Gunpoint5 votesRek'Sai see's play over Lee Sin and J4, better nerf her before things get too crazy.
Nucleophilic atk11 votesNo, she was actually very very very strong. She needed nerfs. The problem is, in order for champs to see play over Lee and J4, they have to be stupid strong. Otherwise, whats the point.
Silents4294 votesJ4 is only common because he can keep up with Lee Sins bullshit, not because he is overly strong.
Nucleophilic atk6 votesI actually think J4 is quite strong. He can be tanky and still do mucho damage. His ult is also very disruptive.
Silents4293 votesHis ult can also easily be escaped, and screw over your team.
And regards to tanky and damage, he isn't much better then any other bruiser, his built in armor pen is why he has massive damage.
Kitten of Evil2 votesDefine "easily escaped". For most champions your flash had better be up when he ults, or you're screwed.
Silents4291 votesWell gee I don't know, god damn near every champion has a gap closer now a days.
Any champion played on a somewhat regular basis can escape it with an ability, the ones that can't are a few tanks, but its a wasted ult if used on a tank, any bruisers that can't escape can usually fight jarvan, jarvan isn't all that super with AA
Kitten of Evil1 votesThe number of AP carries and supports with dashes and blinks is quite low, actually. 
just to name like 8.
Silents4291 votes
Here is a list (Missing a couple) of every champion that can escape his ult, a few that would be horribly retarded to ult, because trapping himself with them would be suicidal. (Vlad for example)
-Also keep note on how many of those you see played all the time right now-
You also have to worry about making sure not to get your team stuck in that ult, and god forbid while your the CC person, the enemy team doesn't just go kill off your team while your dealing with the 1 person who couldn't escape your ult.
Sly Foxy1 votes
Here is a list of champions that can escape his ult if jarvan has his E-Q combo up.
Silents4291 votesRephrase that because what you said made no sense.
Sly Foxy1 votesIt's a list of people who can escape jarvans E-Q-R combo where they end up knocked up.
Silents4291 votesNo need to escape his E and Q when it is so easy to dodge..
AerialBlade5 votesIn that case, where's the thresh ban? He's basically the most popular champion in the game. And ridiculously op.
Nucleophilic atk4 votesI agree that he is really strong. But, I like him :D.
maikokk3 voteshes not OP. very desirable pick for many comps, but not OP
AerialBlade2 votesJust like lee sin. Huge pick rate, huge utility, but 'not OP'
maikokk4 votesall he has is utility. no early damage, no base defensive stats... he has clear weaknesses until he gets to late game. lee-sin has no clear weaknesses until late game arrives. similar, not the same.
Anomander3 votesreksai and azir are prolly better then j4
Nucleophilic atk7 votesAs far as strength goes, the Azir is way stronger lol. If the other team bans one of my champs, I ban Azir just because he is broken. Post nerf Rek is doable, though. But, like I said, I ban these champs because they are in every game I play, not because they are OP.
What Is Smite3 votesMy bans for ranked are because Rek'Sai and Gnar are just stupid spamming without meaningful counter-play and akali is there because her nerfs this patch probably don't mean shit to her stupidly strong DPS output especially since she got an indirect buff with the changes to GunBlade
Tapu Fini3 votesIt's only balanced if it can make LCSBIGPLAYS.
Frikgeek2 votesSo you're leaving LIssandra, Cassiopeia, and Rek'sai open? All of them are much more broken than j4, lee, or zed.
Nucleophilic atk19 votesNo offense, but your reading comprehension is a little lacking.
Frikgeek1 votesNo it isn't. If you always ban the same champs that aren't the 3 I listed, some of them will be open, especially if you're on the red team. Unless you're claiming that you're completely fine with Liss, Cassio, or Rek because they're not played as much. I mean, does it really matter if you see Lee every game if he's less likely to carry than a Rek'sai?
maikokk8 votesNo offense, but your reading comprehension is a little lacking.
Nucleophilic atk15 votesYou honestly are really bad at reading comprehension. I say I ban these champs so I don't see them every game, SPECIFICALLY STATING THAT I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE OP OR NOT, and you comment saying other champs are more broken. I really don't care that you THINK Liss or Cass are too strong, it has nothing to do with my post.
Then you defend it again lol. Like, what are you not understanding here? Shot in the dark: you are a business major?
Kitten of Evil7 votesUnless you're claiming that you're completely fine with Liss, Cassio, or Rek because they're not played as much.
That is exactly what he's saying, yes.
exiledFromBadmen1 votesLOL, Lissandra is the only balanced midlaner. Her damage and utility is gated by her PRETTY SHORT range. She was considered underpowered in Season 4.
Frikgeek3 votesIf you play her as a midlaner, sure. Now play her top and rape just about everything that can be sent top. If they try to laneswap they'll quickly find out that top is too long to safely waveclear, meaning all those squishy midlaners are very gankable until they get zhonya's.
Orangesilk1 votesYou sound like a person that only plays top.
Frikgeek1 votesI play mid, top, and support. Though the toplane meta is by far the most problematic atm. People have realised that not only can they "skip" a midlaner's weak laning phase, but when put against melees they actually become bully laners. Ryze was the first sign of this but now he got nerfed pretty hard and his winrate is among the lowest, I'm not sure if Riot will decide to deal with all the other midlane rejects in toplane the same way, but they will probably do something about it.