"I wanted mid but he got it"

Nucleophilic atk·Jan 29, 2015·45 votes·3,547 views

"So I'm just going to take my Fizz support". This makes me sad.

No, no, no people. I am not talking about "off-meta" supports being bad here. I could care less who you support with if you know what you are doing. But taking Fizz bot lane, buying 0 support items and 0 wards just because you wanted to play Fizz mid, ** is not** playing an "off-meta" support. It is being a cry baby and should be punishable by permaban. I didn't think I would have to spell out the difference lol.

97 Comments

Raise DongrsJan 29, 20156 votes

Had a Kalista support yesterday. Some people need to understand there are limits to breaking meta

Nucleophilic atkJan 29, 201517 votes

They aren't trying to break the meta. They are just trolling.

Blue Moon WolfJan 30, 20152 votes

also on that list: AD Lissandra Alistar mid Teemo ...oh wait... he can do every position... >_>

WullfJan 30, 20157 votes

wait - Alsitar mid was a thing.

I saw it in korea I think

PepperpwniJan 31, 20151 votes

Now that he doesn't autoattack with his Headbutt, I find it a lot harder to play AP Cow. item 3100 item 3025

RaxicorJan 30, 20152 votes

Mid Alistar is a thing. Damn powerful too in the right hands.

Blue Moon WolfJan 30, 20151 votes

honestly I had a brain fart on who to put there and he just seemed like a ridiculous pick mid due to not having any range .--. who would you recommend as a troll pick?

RaxicorJan 30, 20151 votes

Maybe Poppy mid? I mean Alistar works because he can Q/W and take a chunk of health as he does it. Poppy would be harder to maneuver with overall. Then again, her late game would be boss...

captainkaigerJan 30, 20151 votes

Support Lissandra let's go! I don't consider Lissie a top laner in any regard, but she has just plenty CC/engage to work perfectly as a support. If only people played her though. She's not quite as strong as Viktor, but more popular than him.

GallowgrimJan 31, 20151 votes

..does it count for anything that they're my #2 and #3 favorite mages? I love both and immensely enjoy their playstyles and kits.

captainkaigerJan 31, 20151 votes

I wasn't bashing Lissie or Viktor, I love playing them too. But people who like to play champs with enjoyable kits are few and far between, though they are out there.

JunkοJan 29, 20154 votes

I had a Kalista support on my team the other day. She stomped and carried the game, and it was a ranked game

Raise DongrsJan 29, 20155 votes

but you have to remember that a lot of Kalista's kit is based around initiating with a tank support and picking off kills; they didn't lock Kalista to break the meta, they locked her as a joke and we got incinerated. Not saying it's bad, but those who do it should know how to do it before they try

ElBoobJan 30, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0EYcZVjm,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-01-29T19:54:00.500+0000) but those who do it should know how to do it before they try

Does...Not...Compute... Shouldn't you be trying so as to learn? Unless you are specifically speaking of ranked, then I agree.

Raise DongrsJan 30, 20151 votes

Bots, mien freund. It is a wonderful practicing resource. use it

ElBoobJan 31, 20151 votes

Bots only help with determining builds. To actually learn you have to play against players.

KijinxJan 29, 20157 votes

Haven't had a Kalista support and I'm too bad with her mechanics to try it myself, but in theory it could work. She has dmg that doesn't need gold to scale, and her ult is ideal for saving the carry and helping them re-position, on top of free sort-of wards. On paper it doesn't sound that bad.

ZushakonJan 29, 20155 votes

The problem is that if she bonds with the ADC, her "Soul Marked" proc can make it hard for the ADC to CS. If she bonds with the jungler, then a lot of her laning strength goes unused.

KijinxJan 30, 20152 votes

That can be solved by her not autoing cs, since it needs the two to attack for her to get it. Or she could get relic shield and then they both get gold.

HawkefireJan 30, 20155 votes

Why in the world would support Kalista be attacking CS?

For that matter, as a support you shouldn't ever be attacking CS unless the ADC isn't present, or you are both in a position where you have to push the lane quickly (in which case, the ADC shouldn't care about the support picking up the gold from a minion here and there).

RaxicorJan 30, 20152 votes

Targon's is every reason to "attack" CS as a support. And I always tell Nunu to take a hunk from a minion if he's soaking tons of damage.

PikmintsJan 30, 20151 votes

Buying Targon's on support Kalista? Going to be building her tank?

I mean I see the appeal, but it would make more sense to me to build her more of a bruiser build. Getting Talisman would ensure that she'd be able to get in range of a target to perma-keep-them-in-range via her passive, while also giving her more mana so that she could send out sentinels with no concern for her mana while being able to pierce-rend poke in lane.

From there items like (aside fro the obvious Sightstone) Frozen Mallet would provide a permaslow that further adds to your utility, perhaps a Black Cleaver if your team is going to otherwise be too AD heavy, Locket if your team wouldn't have anyone else get it... Now that I think about it, it may just be a lot easier to not pick Kalista support than to try to itemize for her.

Edit: How is analyzing the possibility of Kalista support working worthy of being downvoted?

Raise DongrsJan 30, 20152 votes

Oh my god, she didn't act the role, she just called it

ZushakonJan 30, 20151 votes

Other reasons would be helping to prep the creep wave so the ADC can CS easier. For example, supports whose ADC is pushed under tower will often auto the ranged creeps once so the ADC can last hit it after a tower shot. Targon's Brace, as Raxicor mentioned in the post directly above this one, is a very good reason for a support to attack the CS. And, he asked why would a support in general attack CS, not why a support Kalista would. Raxicor gave a good reason why a support in general might do that.

Also, when I'm playing support, I want my ADC to have as much gold as possible. Anything that makes it more difficult for the ADC to CS or takes farm from the ADC is something I try to avoid. Kalista's passive makes it harder for her to help an ADC push a wave without taking CS (You might not care, but that's hardly universal). It also makes it harder for Kalista to help her ADC secure a kill. Sure, one kill on the support is great. I get an early sightstone. However, much more than that is wasted potential.

captainkaigerJan 30, 20152 votes

What if they can't get that minion because of the tower acting weird again? What if you have a Targon's? What if, by some chance, if you're getting kills it doesn't matter?

Meep ManJan 30, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0EYcZVjm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-29T17:32:10.983+0000)

Had a Kalista support yesterday. Some people need to understand there are limits to breaking meta

Kalista Support can work. Corki Support? No.

HawkefireJan 30, 20152 votes

Kalista support can work so long as she isn't taking CS.

Her ult can be quite powerful with an ADC like graves, the damage of her W is quite strong so long as the both of you are actively taking advantage of it, and her sentinels are essentially free wards, that MOVE.

That and she does have a pretty decent slow on her E.

Is it trolling? Not really, so long as you are being serious about it.

I is definitely off-meta though.

WullfJan 30, 20153 votes

had a kalista top - just pecause the player wanted to play her.

Its not breaking meta, its breaking my heart.

JofeyyJan 30, 20151 votes

Kalista top isnt too bad, i played against a guy that went top kalista and ravaged the lane. She built atk speed/crit and a bit tanky. She was bouncing all over the place it was impossible to catch her lmaoo. Even me as mid zed couldnt kill her till lategame.

BorblandJan 30, 20151 votes

Kalista support isn't that bad. Free poke, some slow, a really really nice ultimate to save adc from any ganks, or from any focus in teamfights.

AdeyemonJan 31, 20151 votes

Okay I am serious... If she, as the sup, bonds with top lane she can ult and change team fights. I like it in theory but I think she is too squishy.

Drunk RummateJan 29, 20155 votes

"Don't worry, I'll build a sightstone at the 35 minute mark after my team freaks out for the 40th time about our lack of vision"

MohawkBirdJan 29, 20154 votes

[deleted]

RogueWillJan 29, 20152 votes

I agree. I'm grinding for a week to but that 6300ip champ and then they tell me I can play it because someone typed their role faster than me? I'm taking that champion support or jungle or whatever. Now if it is ranked I just assume is a 4v5 from the begining, most likely is going to be anyway since the fizz will rage quit at some point.

KijinxJan 29, 20153 votes

You hold the fuck up my friend, I play fizz supp very seriously. he supports you by forcing the enemy to either kill him and let you rek them, or they focus you and he reks them. It's an aggressive pick that's an ideal counter to your all-in engage supports like leo or thresh. Often times they go in on the ADC and fizz forces them to go on defense instead of offense as he fucks up the enemy ADC.

I'm not sure how new fizz works as supp, but the old one worked really well since he didn't need items to do damage early on. This one has higher base scaling on his active w and now the missing helth dmg procs every auto I think it may work even better than before.

SinlaireJan 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You hold the fuck up my friend, I play fizz supp very seriously. he supports you by forcing the enemy to either kill him and let you rek them, or they focus you and he reks them. It's an aggressive pick that's an ideal counter to your all-in engage supports like leo or thresh. Often times they go in on the ADC and fizz forces them to go on defense instead of offense as he fucks up the enemy ADC.

I'm not sure how new fizz works as supp, but the old one worked really well since he didn't need items to do damage early on. This one has higher base scaling on his active w and now the missing helth dmg procs every auto I think it may work even better than before.

that's not "support" though. as a JG/Support main who plays Nami Soraka Leona Morgana support then it becomes what is roughly recognized as "kill lane" instead of "support and carry". i have no problems with kill lanes though and would have zero problems with having a fizz as my second if i was playing a traditional ADC just so long as neither of us got greedy and shared kills.

run Fizz all you like down there. i just recommend calling it a "support/kill" lane instead of "support". it can be misleading.

KijinxJan 30, 20152 votes

Yes, you're entirely right. I assumed it went without saying that when I pick fizz in the support role, the main focus of my role will be murdering the enemy. There's very little I can actually do to traditionally support my ADC, I thought that would be clear. I call it support because that's what everybody and their grandmother calls the role in bot that doesn't farm.

MahautsukaiJan 29, 20152 votes

/shrug, beats straight afk'ing or 'mid or feed' by a little.^^

Nucleophilic atkJan 29, 20151 votes

No, it really doesn't. Considering it is the same thing as "mid or feed". If these type of players were punished, toxicity would go down.

ZushakonJan 29, 20154 votes

While I don't play any supports that could be considered a troll pick, I wish people would be a little more flexible and give an off-meta support pick the benefit of the doubt. Often I see the ADC go into the game with a bad attitude if they don't like the support pick instead of just giving it a chance.

I'd also rather have a Talon support who actually buys and uses a sightstone to a Sona or Janna who won't help ward.

RikariJan 29, 20152 votes

I called top->jung->mid->adc but im last pick so ima just play LeeSin

Nucleophilic atkJan 29, 20152 votes

Lee Sin can actually dominate any position. Your example isn't good since he is so broken that he can go anywhere and build anything and be viable.

Only Play DariusJan 30, 20152 votes

Once a kid said he wanted to play tryndamere top. Someone else took top so he said he wanted to only play tryndamere because he was able to get lots of kills in the other games as tryndamere (i already knew we were going to lose at this point). Since i was last pick i had to be ADC with a tryndamere support. Yes, my support was a champion with absolutely no poke, absolutely no ally heals or buffs, and absolutely no CC. He didn't even buy a relic shield, he bought a doran's blade. The enemy botlane did the smart thing and repeatedly went all-in on me starting at level 2, completely ignoring trynd while doing so because they knew he wasn't going to do squat to stop them. By the time they were done melting me they would just walk away, completely unharmed by me or tryndamere, seeing as support isn't supposed to take minion kills, meaning that tryndamere had no fury and therefore no crit chance. Of course because I had all the deaths since they would focus me and act like tryndamere wasn't there (because he might as well not have been) it was apparently my fault that the enemy botlane got fed and my team said to report the ADC.

That was my last ranked game for the week.

ChrisB5Jan 30, 20151 votes

Off meta is one of my duos and I going yasuo/sona bot lane, or in one case sion/yasuo bot lane. Being a troll is a game I had today where I was playing against a Vayne with a Rumble support, who went Rumble support because he 'didn't get top lane' but still wanted to play Rumble. This same player died trying to solo dragon mid game haha. I mean c'mon. I've gone Xerath support, and that's like... BORDERLINE, which I only did because I got a green light from my team (my duo wanted me to xer supp since someone else was mid and I carry w/ the ascended badass he is).

QuortJan 30, 20151 votes

I love Sion Support! He can be very strong, but can I ask how you build him? Usually when I play Caster Supports (Zilean, Zyra, Soraka, Lulu) I rush Sightstone and Boots of Mobility. However, when I play as Sion, I generally rush a Righteous Glory, another defensive item (Magic Resist or Armor depending on which enemy is getting strong), and boots (Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi), and THEN I feel tanky enough to get a Sightstone. It's not too bad because I can still purchase individual Wards to keep my partner and I safe, but I also keep my Warding Totem to help with vision so I don't sweep enemy wards. What would you recommend since I'm guessing you have more experience with Sion Support than I do? :3

ChrisB5Jan 30, 20151 votes

Honestly, I wouldn't know the best way in a normal case. My duo and I were both bot (him yas myself sion) so I skipped sight stone and went straight for warmongs (starting with income item of course). We had been kicking so much ass and already fed to the point it didn't really matter if jungle ganked us (and enough map awareness to know when a lane was missing). Top lane though I usually start boots/health pot and start building warmongs/tier 2 boots, and conditionally after. It's kinda funny because when I duo'd with him I went zhonas then hydra which I never do (I usually go full tank till mid to end). Just goes to show how well him and I do together lol.

If nothing else though I'd def rush face of the mountain's tier 2 since he scales off of minions killed. ALWAYS go for the cannon minions since they count as large minions and give 10hp instead of 2hp with the stacks. Other than that little tip, I can't give much advice. Usually I Sona or Lux support (my two favorites). I should learn Sion though. He is a beast and near impossible to kill (much like Braum).

QuortJan 31, 20152 votes

Ok thanks for the help! :)

ZahzJan 30, 20151 votes

Well technically he has every right to play whatever he wants. U entering the lobby before him doesnt make u any more deserving of the position then he is. You could have just as easily taken your already established support skills and helped your team rather then go by hru the fizzsperiment**

BigNasty3000Jan 30, 20154 votes

This is the entire toxicity problem at its base. Assholes like you come in with this attitude and it ruins everyone's TEAM game. Rights are not applicable here, this is a game, and you agree to the rules beforehand. This is why there are so few ADC's at low elo, because you rarely get a support. You always get the 2nd mid player, stealing cs and feeding until you lose.

Your attitude sucks and is the biggest reason why this community is so toxic. Go play a single player game. You can do whatever you want in Skyrim.

Nucleophilic atkJan 30, 20152 votes

Entering the lobby before him has nothing to do with ranked draft mode. You can troll elsewhere you business major.