But why is everyone bitching about rito and these chromopack things? First off, I have no clue what they actually are. I think they are like a recolor of champs? I just don't get what all the bitching is for just because they cost money. If you are that bent outta shape that they cost money, just don't fuking buy them? If you can't live without having a blue champ...then buy it. Simple.
Angry Monster31 votesIts cause people think they are entitled to more from a game that does not charge them money.
I personally think they are at a reasonable price point but a conversation about actual cost would be legit. But any conversation about how they should be free is just funny.
Eleshakai1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6iYANdl5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-16T12:19:50.282+0000)
Its cause people think they are entitled to more from a game that does not charge them money.
I personally think they are at a reasonable price point but a conversation about actual cost would be legit. But any conversation about how they should be free is just funny.
I actually do agree that the price is a bit high simply because they are already reliant upon another purchase... but ya, it's such a silly complaint. It's cosmetic... they cost money. It really is that simple in my eyes lol
TheTyeGuy1 votesI still think the price is just fine. If it were only one or two chromas for the price of a cheap skin, it would suck. But THREE chromas for the price of a cheap skin is actually a pretty good deal in my opinion.
Eleshakai2 votesI still think the price is just fine. If it were only one or two chromas for the price of a cheap skin, it would suck. But THREE chromas for the price of a cheap skin is actually a pretty good deal in my opinion.
The reason why I feel they're overpriced is that almost nobody is going to WANT all three but you're forced to PAY for all 3. And that's why I feel they should be cheaper... or sold separately.
But my opinion isn't all that strong on the subject, really. I just feel people are going about COMPLAINING About it the wrong way.
Stark600012 votesyou believe a recolor that takes an amateur less than 4 minutes should cost $5.
Axests2 votesa professional and thorough recolor of lets say the an entire pack (3 recolers) can take about an hour. Even at minimum wage the cost of said skins is lower than what it cost to create them. It's like when people complain that video games are expensive despite all the time and technology it cost to create them.
Gapybo9 votesDid you see the chromas? The Lucian one ONLY changes the color of his coat in a single color. It's literally 5 minute job for all of his 3 chromas. They also only have to do the work once and they can sell thousands copies of the same product so your argument doesn't really fit here. It's not about being cheap it's about calling out cash-grab bullshit when you see it.
Takeuchi 177 votesso then dont buy it? even if something is a cash grab its usually because theres a demand for it. if you dont agree with the demand or the product then dont support it by buying it.
complaining about this is like complaining about how kraft changes the noodles in their mac'n'cheese to dinosaurs and charges more even tho its all the same ingredients. but people still want their dinosaur mac'n'cheese.
it really boggles my mind that people are genuinely upset about this
DrCyanide1 votesPart of the outcry is an attempt to warn other players not to support Riot via purchasing these Chromas.
Eleshakai2 votesPart of the outcry is an attempt to warn other players not to support Riot via purchasing these Chromas.
Which is another problem... the arrogance of assuming they have the right to decide what something is worth to someone else is silly.
DrCyanide2 votesI've got a penny here. Most everyone here will tell you it's worth $0.01, but I think it's really worth $5.00 since it's green. You want to buy it from me?
This is the situation we find ourselves in. Of course, no one can stop you from buying a green penny from me for $5.00, but they will call you a fool for buying it and me a scam artist for trying to sell it. Such is normal commerce in everything.
OmManiPadmeHum7 votesI'll play devils advocate on this one. But I think the "bitching" is because the community feels that Riot could have spent their resources that were used to make these "chromapack" things on ACTUAL new skins...or reworks...CoughpoppyCough.
Yes, these recolors are just a mere photoshop job that doesn't take too much, but whatever time they are spending making new recolors for EACH champ, they could have had that "team" designing a new skin for champs that have VERY little skins....Like:
Aatrox Braum Jinx Kha'Zix Lucian Quinn VelKoz Yasuo Zac
Yes, riot will get some money from people wanting a red fizz or a blue garen or whatever. But I think they would have yielded more money making new skins for any of the above champs or put more effort into the reworks that are supposed to be coming for:
Olaf Eve Poppy etc....
Eraest975 votesHey so I guess I'll be the guy who says something about your post. So yes, I think the Design team for skins could of done something like make new skins for the ones you stated over having this chromapack. I mean I am indifferent about chromapack it is a what ever kind of idea to me, but hey I am sure Riot figured out they can make some money to run their business.
As of spending more resources for chromapack over reworks? You know that there are different teams for this type of thing? There is a team for rework, one for skin designs, new champ creation, support group, etc. Also poppy's rework is still in the making. Here is a Meddler talking about Poppy's rework. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/03/red-post-collection-poppy-and-gangplank.html
Besides personal I think reworking a champion is probably the hardest job to do in Riot. I mean you got to figure out what new abilities and passives that won't make the champion way too OP, and at the same time you can't change the champ too much because then the mains of that champ will flood the boards will "We Hate Riot" post.
OmManiPadmeHum1 votesI was just playing devils advocate. I could care less what they spend their time on. I was just merely talking for the community with opinions on what I have gathered.
Whatever "TEAM" they have assembled to do their Chromapacks im am fairly certain isn't just a temp job for some local college kids. I am pretty sure they are people that are also part of the team used to design ACTUAL skins.
I agree with you that there is a team for doing these chromapacks. but they JUST started these. They didn't just hire a temp team to come in and do these and then leave. It's probably part of the regular "skin" team. So people kind of wish they would put effort into designing a new skin of champs that don't have very many. i.e. Zac.
Whatever time they are spending making 3 recolors for over 170 champs, they could have made 4-5 NEW skins for existing champs easy.
And again, yes, they will get money from people wanting some recolors....but I honestly think they would yield MORE money if they took their team that is doing "Chromapack" stuff and had them go into a think tank and come out with 5 new skins for existing champs and released those instead.
Just my 2 cents.
TheTyeGuy1 votesIt takes less time to make chromas than it does to make a skin. For skins, you need concepts, new models, new particles, new splash arts, all of that stuff. And if you've been paying attention to updates recently, a LOT of new skins have been coming out within the last few months.
For chromas, all they need to do is choose a skin, then choose three new color schemes that could work with the skin, then recolor it in photoshop or something. I feel like there could be a chance that the quantity of skin releases may decrease slightly, but since chromas probably aren't terribly time consuming to make, it won't be too different than what we are seeing now.
OmManiPadmeHum1 votesI understand time. I've mentioned that plenty of times. So lets do math:
1 Chroma lets say takes 5 mins to photoshop (Being VERY generous on that time for shading and looks and everything have to be done...but whatever...)
1 Chroma x 5 mins = 5 mins labor Each champ gets minimum of 3 chroma So each champ Chroma = 15 mins labor 15 mins labor x 124 champs = 31 HOURS of labor. just to photoshop.
Now...in 31 hours of labor, I'm pretty sure someone in riot can come up with a skin, make up some mock drafts and submit to development. And that is LOW end.
Realistically, I think each chroma, to make it look right and shading and color scheme and to implement to PBE takes about 1 hour per chroma. could even be more. Which in math would be:
1 hour x 3 Chroma per champ = 3 hours per champ 3 hours x 124 champs = 372 HOURS of labor.
You can't tell me that in 372 hours (which is about 9.2 weeks of work assuming they work 40 hours a week), that they couldn't come up with 2-4 new skins. seriously. It's riot. Typically every month they are churning out at least 2-4 new skins anyway.
Now, from the looks of it, they are releasing for random skins, not just the classic of each champ. So I have a feeling that its going to spill over into Chroma's for other skins in each champ pool even FURTHER extending the labor for each...
Eleshakai2 votesI understand time. I've mentioned that plenty of times. So lets do math:
1 Chroma lets say takes 5 mins to photoshop (Being VERY generous on that time for shading and looks and everything have to be done...but whatever...
1 Chroma x 5 mins = 5 mins labor Each champ gets minimum of 3 chroma So each champ Chroma = 15 mins labor 15 mins labor x 124 champs = 31 HOURS of labor. just to photoshop.
Now...in 31 hours of labor, I'm pretty sure someone in riot can come up with a skin, make up some mock drafts and submit to development. And that is LOW end.
Realistically, I think each chroma, to make it look right and shading and everything takes about 1 hour per. could even be more. Which in math would be:
1 hour x 3 Chroma per champ = 3 hours per champ 3 hours x 124 champs = 372 HOURS of labor.
You can't tell me that in 372 hours (which is about 9.2 weeks of work assuming they work 40 hours a week), that they couldn't come up with 2-4 new skins. seriously. It's riot. Typically every month they are churning out at least 2-4 new skins anyway.
No, I don't actually think 1 person could create 2-4 skins at Riot in 9.2 weeks of work. I really don't. I think that the TEAM can, but the team is a lot more than 1 person.
OmManiPadmeHum1 votesAnd I will bet you there is more than 1 person doing chroma's.
Just saying. Even if every chroma only took 1 person 31 hours to complete for every champ, thats 31 HOURS (almost a full work week) that someone could Go to the Skins and Concept tab here, bring it to a drafting table, and mock it up for development. I am no artist, and I am pretty sure I could draw up a sweet skin for a champ in 1 weeks time.
Daen2 votesLess than a week for a single person putting out that much cosmetic content? I don't know about you, but that level of customization would be pretty fantastic to me.
Keep in mind, by the way, that skins have way more process steps than chromas. All a chroma is, basically, is scribbling on a picture file then adding it to the in-client store. An actual skin requires research into the champion, picking a theme, refining that theme, concept art, iteration on that art, a new model, rigging the animations for that model, probably new textures, maybe voice work/particles, etc. It's a much more significant undertaking than you're mentioning.
Occams Raiser1 votesThese packs don't take 31 hours to do as a set. If it took someone 31 hours that dude would get fired at the end of the week. It takes the programmer longer to input it into the shop than it takes to make it. AND the shop page is mostly dynamic.
Daen5 votesThere are two reasons the chromas don't sit well with me.
I'm fine with Riot charging RP for this content, but it would be valuable for us to have some dialogue with them regarding bundling and pricing.
Simplicate4 votesThe vocal majority are "bitching" because chromapacks literally take 10 minutes to make with 1 person alone. There is a guy on reddit who has a done a crap ton for other people for FREE and he's covered a decent amount of the champs in a few days. What we don't like is the fact that RIOT is slapping a price tag on something that requires the bare minimum in terms of effort.
Skins require effort, they show skill and talent of the people who make them and if they want to charge me $10 for it then so be it. But you can't just sit there and swipe over it with the brush tool two times then tell me you want me to pay for that. The LEAST they could do it have an IP purchase option.
Nucleophilic atk3 votesWho cares how long it takes? Don't fucking buy it if you don't think it is worth the money, don't purchase it.
Occams Raiser9 votesYou don't see the ridiculous nature of posting "who cares" when you shouldn't care about the original post. Why is it OK for you to post your feelings but its not ok for us to post ours? You can care enough, for you to tell us to stop talking but actual money isn't something worth commenting on?
Nucleophilic atk2 votesBecause your feeling of "omg rito you have to give me free stuff" is pretty bad.
Occams Raiser1 votesI didn't say free. Why don't you consider production cost when you are deciding whether something has value or not? Why don't people have the right to voice their opinion like you do?
Nucleophilic atk2 votesBecause production cost has nothing to do with the value of an object from a business standpoint. The value of an object, from a business like rito's standpoint, it determined by how much people will pay for it. If people buy it, the price is viewed as good. If people don't buy, they will probably adjust. That is why it is better to just simply not buy it than it is to bitch about getting things for free.
Occams Raiser1 votesI wasn't asking you to look at it from a business standpoint from the side of the RIOT. Why would I care what their side was, I'm one of the consumers.
Eleshakai2 votesHe's asking you to look at it from a realistic standpoint. GAmers have proven time and time again that they'll bitch about ANYTHING but still buy it. Look at the Modern Warfare 2 controversy and boycott... there was a screenshot posted of the 'boycott group' on... was it Steam? I forget... anyways... the day after the game came out like 90% of the people clamoring for a boycott were playing the game.
So stop whining and start ACTUALLY voting with your wallet.
Nucleophilic atk2 votesThis is quite possibly the worst logic I have ever come across. At this point, I have to assume you are either 10 years old, or just trolling. Either way, I'm done with this convo.
Conncept4 votesWell I can confirm your first suspicion, you do, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.
I am an illustrator, modeler, and texture artist and recolors (what these actually are no matter how much they want to rebrand them) such as what we have seen so far do not take even 1/10th of the work of creating a 750 RP skin, yet they are going to cost well over half of that at 540 RP, and Riot is trying to hide that gross overpricing by packaging them in threes and claiming it is 'more bang for your buck', even when they know full well most people are only going to be interested in one of the three of each pack.
And at the end of the day, if Riot had no problem creating two higher price tiers, and then chucking several extremely dated existing skins in to that new price range without any additional work on them, they should have no problem doing the same for a lower price tier.
Sir ArmaMalum3 votesI usually see complaints of 'too much' not 'they should be free', centered largely around this post showing how 'easy' it is to do a rushed job of a re-color.
All that being said I personally agree with you, not to mention there's a chance for chromas to be offered for alternative pricing like IP, games with a certain skin, etc etc.
Garurumon2 votes+1 on all.
Not to mention that 590RP is nothing, and an hour of work will give me more than enough to buy several packs.
Occams Raiser4 votesGreat. You are the reason they cost 590. Riot know their market. The undiscerning with disposable income.
Loken Stoneheart2 votesBecause it takes a professional roughly 30 minutes to make a single chroma. At three chromas in a pack, a single person has worked for about 2 hours rounded up. Even if you were paying them $100 an hour for whatever reason, you'd only need to sell 40 chroma packs at $5 a pack (current price, mind you) to make up for what he/she was "worth."
That being said, people aren't paid $100 an hour, and they'll sell millions of chromapacks, not 40.
Its dishonesty saying its value reflects the amount of time/money that went into it, because that's simply untrue, and its a scam because as said above, after they sell 40 of the packs that Mr.100-A-Hour-Rent-An-Artist worked on, everything after that point is pure profit-- after release, there is zero re-production cost, as its a digital good. After its made, there is a theoretical infinite number of the product, they will always have product equal to demand so long as they choose to do so, at zero cost.
Then there is the secondary complaint, which is also fairly reasonable: Why, after I spent $5-20 on a skin, to I have to throw another $5 at the skin to get a skin for my skin?
Nucleophilic atk2 votesIf you don't think it is worth the cost, then don't buy it? I don't get why people are bitching about it. I don't think A&F clothes are worth anywhere near as much as they are, do you see me protesting them lol? Nope. Just don't buy the shit. Some people might think they are worth it, and chose to buy it.
Loken Stoneheart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6iYANdl5,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2015-04-17T10:55:45.932+0000)
If you don't think it is worth the cost, then don't buy it? I don't get why people are bitching about it. I don't think A&F clothes are worth anywhere near as much as they are, do you see me protesting them lol? Nope. Just don't buy the shit. Some people might think they are worth it, and chose to buy it.
That's beyond dumb, because you don't want A&F clothes. Most of the people want Chromas, but don't want to pay roughly 10x's their value for them, especially when Riot has so many chances to do something nice with them (Champion master, IP sink, ect).
It is very important to give feedback about things. If you don't give (reasonable) feedback about things like this, they'll just keep cashing in on your stubbornness.
Nucleophilic atk2 votes"omg rito give me for free because your product isn't worth it in my opinion" (yes, champion mastery and IP is still free) is not reasonable feedback either bud.
The company is going to sell the product at what they can get for it. If people buy them at that price, they are going to stay the same. If not, they are going to change the price/pricing options. So, what is the solution? Don't buy them. If nobody thinks they are worth it, and nobody buys them, they will be forced to change the pricing on it. Actions will always work better than just "omg rito give me free".
Occams Raiser1 votesReverse your argument on itself. Why do you feel the need to talk (post) about those that are bitching?
Nucleophilic atk1 votesAhh, the classic, "I have no idea how to debate something" statement.
Occams Raiser1 votesHmm. You didn't answer. Evasion tactic instead. OK. It's still a win for me. Socratic method of showing some one their own hypocrisy is now a "I have no idea how to debate something" statement.
powerbats1 votes[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6iYANdl5,comment-id=001b0000000100010000,timestamp=2015-04-18T06:35:45.346+0000)
Hmm. You didn't answer. Evasion tactic instead. OK. It's still a win for me. Socratic method of showing some one their own hypocrisy is now a "I have no idea how to debate something" statement.
Are you referrign to youreself because you didn't quote anyone and yet said you win which is usually a sign of defeat when you're arguments aren't substantive in reference to said quote. So quote who you were referring to so there's context to your claims.
A Miss Fortune2 votesI'm kinda neutral to the Chroma Packs.
At one point, they take very minimum time, skill, and just one employee of Riot to make the Chromas. It makes skins less valuable and they're obviously doing it for quick and easy money.
From another it could make games and customization more interesting. Since Chroma Packs are far cheaper they will also be more common than skins if you're just talking about a classic model and a chroma without a skin.
Dunkrius2g1 votesNot a fan of buying things. Only bought a 975 skin on 50% discount. That's all my purchases so far for rito. Chroma's won't matter for me. If it is achievable, then that will be awesome if not...
Nucleophilic atk3 votesYea, only thing I've purchased was Surprise Party Fiddles (coolest skin in game and made me main Fiddles lol). I just hate how people are like, "all you did is brush over it, I should get that for free". No. If you want it, buy it. If you don't think it is worth it, then don't buy it. Simple lol. I don't see the complaint over this at all.
Aheadatime2 votesThe complaint is justified. What if there was a really awesome clothing store down the street from you. They had really simple designs, but the shirts themselves were cheaply made with nothing more than cotton and the ink used for the design. If the price tag on the shirts read 110$, you'd be confused. You'd probably question that price tag mentally... maybe even ask the guys who work there why they cost so much.
Would you want some prick customer randomly jumping in between you and the employee and saying "if u thik it cost so much, DUN FUKIN BI IT!" No. You wouldn't.
People like you make large companies feel comfortable over-pricing their goods and/or services. You should always be willing to make an honest observation about over-pricing, mistreating employees, malpractice involving waste product, etc. To sit back and complacently accept any decision a company makes is short-sighted and borderline cowardly. You make it so much worse on a sociological level by placing the blame on those who are willing to make said honest observations, as if speaking your mind is a rude or morally wrong thing to do.
So far, there have been a handful of threads/posts asking for these things to be free. However, this is the minority. There is a huge thread around here somewhere with several hundreds of upvotes that explains how to create chromas on a user level. The majority of people in that thread were calling for either
All of these requests are very reasonable. Riot even mentioned that the price and the pricing method (strictly RP) isn't set in stone, and that they'd be willing to discuss the matter. Your posts have not only failed to do anything productive, but they've actually served to hinder that line of communication that Riot requested.
Nucleophilic atk2 votesActually, I have done something like that lol. Only it wasn't at a clothing store. I was waiting for some Wendy's and the person in front me was being an ass to the cashier because a baconator costs more than they would have liked to play. They were all like, "well I could just get this from McDonald's for cheaper." So I told her to go to McDonald's then and let the rest of us get our food. In your example, it's actually really really fucking annoying to be the person working at the clothing store and have someone come up to you and ask, "y dis cos so much?" I don't fuking know dude, it's the price of it. Either buy it or not.
If the chromas are as big of a rip-off as you say, don't buy them. Simple. If nobody buys them, rito will either be forced to get rid of them, lower the price, or make alternative pricing options. Obviously nothing is set in stone since they don't know how well they are going to sell. Simple business strategy is that you price at the maximum it will set at. Rito is going to do that. If a lot of people buy them, then it doesn't matter what your opinion on it is. Going back to your clothing store example, a lot of people think A&F clothing is stupidly priced. Do they picket A&F, asking to make their clothing available at a second option like Monopoly money? Nope. They simply don't buy the clothes. But, since people do buy the clothes at that price, they keep it there. I'm sorry, but people pretty much demanding rito to make their content available for free (bcuz yes, IP is free as well), is pretty disrespectful.
Aheadatime2 votesThat is a horrible comparison to my example. Fast food is dirt cheap and filthy, regardless of where you're buying it. If someone is making a scene (rudely, btw) over a 50 cent difference between stores, she needs to be kicked out of the store. My example was completely different. I never mentioned there was any line in the store. I never said to be rude or loud. The price-tag was exponentially more expensive than the product itself. Very stark differences.
The mentality of "if we don't buy, Riot changes their ways" is correct, but contextually very flawed. This game's playerbase is largely composed of children, or at least very young adults. Generally speaking, these people don't handle money very well since they're not making it themselves and have no fiscal responsibilities of their own. Thus, they buy whatever the hell at whatever price is asked. For every 1 person who says "I'm not buying this in hopes that they'll reduce the price", there's a handful of kids insta-buying it without even playing the champion.
This is where communication takes place. It isn't wrong to voice your concern over a demonstrably over-priced item in this situation, especially if you're doing so in a mature and reasonable fashion.
Eleshakai2 votesThe complaint is justified. What if there was a really awesome clothing store down the street from you. They had really simple designs, but the shirts themselves were cheaply made with nothing more than cotton and the ink used for the design. If the price tag on the shirts read 110$, you'd be confused. You'd probably question that price tag mentally... maybe even ask the guys who work there why they cost so much.
Would you want some prick customer randomly jumping in between you and the employee and saying "if u thik it cost so much, DUN FUKIN BI IT!" No. You wouldn't.
People like you make large companies feel comfortable over-pricing their goods and/or services. You should always be willing to make an honest observation about over-pricing, mistreating employees, malpractice involving waste product, etc. To sit back and complacently accept any decision a company makes is short-sighted and borderline cowardly. You make it so much worse on a sociological level by placing the blame on those who are willing to make said honest observations, as if speaking your mind is a rude or morally wrong thing to do.
So far, there have been a handful of threads/posts asking for these things to be free. However, this is the minority. There is a huge thread around here somewhere with several hundreds of upvotes that explains how to create chromas on a user level. The majority of people in that thread were calling for either
- Reduction in RP cost
- IP availability
- Champion mastery availability
All of these requests are very reasonable. Riot even mentioned that the price and the pricing method (strictly RP) isn't set in stone, and that they'd be willing to discuss the matter. Your posts have not only failed to do anything productive, but they've actually served to hinder that line of communication that Riot requested.
This is ridiculous. No, if they were cheap with simple designs but absurdly pricey, I'd look at the pricetags and simply leave the store. As would most people. We don't question prices in real life, we just simply do not BUY things that feel unfairly priced. I've never gone up to the manager at the grocery store and said 'wtf 10 bucks for a jar of salsa what a rip off' no, I just would not buy one. And if I DID make a scene I'd expect to be asked to leave the premises and never return.
The way most people act over these chroma packs, if this were a real life store they'd be asked to leave and if they refused they'd be removed by security.
The REQUESTS that are being made are reasonable, but the people MAKING the requests are typically being unreasonable. Nearly every thread contains some form of insult towards Riot as an organization or towards Riot's employees as individuals. They usually contain immature language and wording and typically are offensive and aggressive to read. None of that is conducive towards providing feedback.
Aheadatime1 votesA grocery store is a horrible example because they don't actually produce the things they sell. I'm not saying that it is reasonable to approach a store owner and say "wtf why is this shit so expensive." What I'm saying is that it would be totally reasonable to approach the T-shirt guys from my previous example and simply ask if they're made of a rare or durable material. An inquiry along those lines, communicated in a calm and mature fashion, is completely reasonable.
I agree with you regarding the attitude behind the requests. I don't appreciate the immaturity and anger either, but I do agree with the sentiment behind it. These chroma packs should cost less, or they should be available by a means outside of RP.