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Let's Talk about Quinn & Valor

Eyrgos··8 votes·1,628 views

Please contribute your own thoughts on Quinn if you have some; let's be constructive/civil, please don't down-vote for no good reason... if you dislike the idea just simply explain your own take on Quinn & perhaps your own proposed solution.

So I love Quinn. I've loved her since her very first teaser & the initial concept art that was released... fell in love! I played her incessantly for a while upon release, but came to the conclusion she's a little too buggy/clunky in certain areas. I really want to play her, I really love this character, so I want to discuss ways she can be helped!

NOTE1: I'm going to be throwing out all kinds of suggestions/creating a comprehensive list, I don't necessarily think ALL or even more than one of these should be implemented together.

NOTE2: It goes without saying that any suggested buffs should require counteractive balance changes/number-tweaks (potential nerfs) on her kit. As it is, I think she's in a fairly strong spot balance-wise.

MY IDEAS/SUGGESTIONS

ATTACK -- improve its responsiveness -- the delay/windup feels off for many players, this can be aggravating even despite practice

BUGS -- fix how Vault sometimes doesn't apply the Harrier mark -- this is flat-out champion-breaking & is a frequent-offender for many

TEXTURE -- she's blatantly low-resolution/visibly rushed -- http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...0#post43333990

PASSIVE -- give it a cool-down timer/countdown -- would help in developing strategy and assist in preventing accidental overlap with Vault

PASSIVE -- do not force a full-CD when it 'nearly applies' on a dying target -- too often, Harrier attempts to apply to a dying target & gets completely lost in the process

PASSIVE -- adjust its prioritization to target->champion->large or epic monster->minions -- frequently marks lesser monsters... this unnecessarily harms her in the jungle

Q -- do not "kill" it mid-air if you die -- if you die while its mid-flight, it gets killed with you... this has cost me numerous trades

E -- have it predictably position your landing based upon relation to target at initial cast -- fixes the issues where pivots (e.g. tumble) may cause Quinn to launch in a random direction

VALOR W -- give it "grants lingering vision of enemy champions revealed for X seconds" -- losing the passive means Valor loses this effect in translation

VALOR W -- have it apply a Harrier mark to each enemy champion revealed -- fulfills a similar effect as above

ADDITIONS/CRITIQUES/THOUGHTS?

17 Comments

ShardWintreswolf3 votes

I play Quinn, a lot, and I mean, a lot. I can agree with some things, but others do have their merit as they are.

This is a bit of a Tl;dr, but try to bear with me.I'll bold the basic points I'm trying to make.

She doesn't appear like a visual rush job to me. And I've has harrier stall for a moment when using vault in teamfights (see my comments on her E) but never flat out not apply. If that is the case though, I hope that gets fixed ASAP.

Passive- A cooldown counter would be nice, but I have tagged 2 enemies with both her passive and the immediately with vault. That makes me wonder if applying a dead set, 100%of the time, harrier application timer, if it would reduce the effectiveness a little too much. Which leads to something I'd like to say on her E later. As far as I know, the only counter/timer for her passive is the time between when an enemy is marked, and when the mark is removed, whether by an auto attack, or it simply fades I have been curious/dumb enough to jungle with Quinn, I love the targeting Champions<large monsters<minions idea,but in lane it would lead to a bit of a cheap move early, when having Harrier is great for farming and poking enemies alike.** Having it constantly target enemy champs would make it a bit unbalance and overkill. Especially if someone were to build a "glass cannon", all-AD Quinn in runes and masteries. **

For her Q- It reminds me a lot of Ahri Ahri's orb, which stops mid-action if you die, however, more often than not it does hit at least once. I have had that near trade off loss far too often to not say that** I like your idea here and definitely would be nice to have.**

Her E- It only pivots or changes when the target moves/changes direction, at which point, the game does it's best to re-direct her new landing spot to meet the settings she has. Applying harrier with her E has always been a point of question for me, especially in teamfights. As I said above, I have tagged 2 enemies (usually minions, sometimes a minion and a champ) with both her passive and the immediately with vault, which makes me think they're on a separate timer of some sort. But this little trick has only worked in situations outside of a teamfight, and usually only occurs (to me) with pure luck. In a teamfight, I have yet to have been able to do the same, probably because somewhere in her setup is something to prevent using such a cheap move constantly. Which is also why sometimes vault might take a moment to apply harrier to an enemy champ in a teamfight if said enemy was just marked with her passive. (I'm not certain, I didn't program, test,or debug her, just speculating)

Valor's W- while that would be nice, to be able to get maybe a second or two of lingering vision, the idea of Valor as an ult is to see them, catch them, and kill them quickly, hence the permanent increase in his speed. Same point with the harrier marks as a means of seeing them in ult. Plus, if you use harrier marks, multiple low hp enemy champs in late game make a prime target for ult+w, then ult again for her skystrike, then poke with Quinn's auto (which has a lot of speed late game) for a near instant double kill or more. While that seems wonderful, its a bit too cheap in my opinion.

Eyrgos1 votes

Applying Harrier with her E has always been a point of question for me too.

Her optimal-burst rotation is so tied to E that she's gimped if you have to hold onto it.

This makes her team-fighting actually quite horrendous as she often doesn't have a choice but to focus the incoming tank, as she can't well reach the back-line with her short-range & need to save her Ultimate for when they're all low (which she generally has trouble having an affect on).

ShardWintreswolf2 votes

Try going into teamfights from a different angles.

I go in from the back and use my ult and w before going in, giving me a chance to speed up and pick a target. When going in, I use E, then Q, then some basic attacks+skystrike, and end with another E as Quinn to get some distance before deciding whether to fall back or commit by taking some more basic shots. I use item 3252 or item 3282 to help me get away or give chase.

If I get targeted, using E after skystrike gives space and gives you the choice while the boots assist in a fast getaway if they give chase. This eases up pressure on the rest of your teammates so they can push back or if you get ignored, you can just keep attacking lower hp enemies while your teammates deal with the tank in front.

ShadowNinetails2 votes

I actually really like these ideas. Of course the #1 thing most Quinn players want is "refresh cd's on basic spells when you swap forms" but at this point, I don't see that happening.

Eyrgos1 votes

Neither do I, honestly it won't--it'd require too much of a major rework as you could effectively: double-blind, double-leap, skystrike.

ShadowNinetails2 votes

Yeah that Q>E>R>E>Q>R would be too sick and too easy to pull off.

HitYouInTheFace2 votes

Quinn is crazy. Valor isn't real. She just talks to herself. Quinn: "Valor, to me!" Garen: "Quinn... no one is there..."

I like the fix on her Q. I think her art/resolution is perfectly fine, but I really have not been paying that much attention to it anyways.

Her passive is way to random and uncontrollable. They have been trying to take the "random" aspect out of the game (Master Yi's Q, Madreds Razor, etc), so i dont know why they allowed this passive to sneak in. Very stupid.

ShardWintreswolf1 votes

Her passive isn't really random so much as it does what it's supposed to without making her to slow or fast. In farming, it usually targets the minion you're attacking or the next weakest to make farming go a little faster. When fighting a single champion with minions around, harrier only marks the champ you're fighting to assist in the kill. and in teamfights, It marks the weakest enemy (in terms of health I think) to make for a quick kill so you can proceed to the next enemy. However, in a teamfight, the weakest might not be the easiest to target, which is why it might get annoying to wait until the mark wears off before the new target is marked. Mind you, this is my personal experience with seeing how its been applied in my matches

ZuVht0hK8i2 votes

I do agree with most of this, with the exception of the adjustments to her Vault. Although I am a fan of being thrown in a random direction, mostly for amusement, it throws your enemy off and can be helpful. It's an issue that would be hard to control,as she already is thrown into the direction she launched from, at max range. There's not much else that can be done at that point. Yes, if you Vault Tristana mid-Rocket Jump, it will throw you to the side, and the same with a few others, but it's not that out of control. It's mostly just her passive that's jacked. In my opinion, at least.

Eyrgos1 votes

Problem is that it makes her utterly worthless against Tristana or Vayne.

Sure you can wait for Tristana's Rocket Jump to go on CD, but a smart Trist will save it... as well, so then you're just supposed to not Vault her at all--but her optimal-burst rotation utterly revolves around it.

ShardWintreswolf1 votes

I hate facing Tristana, as I have learned though, a good way to catch her is to Q, land a few basics while she's blind, and when she tries to jump, use E while she is mid-jump, it stops her midway and reduces her escape immensely. If she ults at any point that becomes a split-second choice of whether to fall back or ult back and give chase with E (which is a gamble as her E chases when locked on) so making sure that there are no enemies aside from her with W is essential. It's all very quick, but can be done

rmreagle1 votes

{quoted}

I do agree with most of this, with the exception of the adjustments to her Vault. Although I am a fan of being thrown in a random direction, mostly for amusement, it throws your enemy off and can be helpful. It's an issue that would be hard to control,as she already is thrown into the direction she launched from, at max range. There's not much else that can be done at that point. Yes, if you Vault Tristana mid-Rocket Jump, it will throw you to the side, and the same with a few others, but it's not that out of control. It's mostly just her passive that's jacked. In my opinion, at least.

Or if anyone flashes ever mid vault, so its not specific to a few champions, it can happen with any champ that runs Flash (I.E. 99.9% of all champions)

HydroxylEthane1 votes

Since some of my concern had been raise, I would give some opinion on Qinn's Q

Her Q feel far less powerful compare with her E.

E has lots of hidden power, proc passive, small stun, positioning, escape, "wall hop"<yes u can do that>.

Her Q, tho, only an skillshot that gives AOE blind....which is powerful when duel or being chase...

Despite late game Q damage is higher, the utilities the E provide out power Q.

....However, I can't really think of a good idea on how to improve Q, I think increasing the missile speed might do the job? or allows Q to proc item effect?<since Valor is part of Quinn!>

Eyrgos1 votes

I think it could stand to have its missile hit-box narrowed (sometimes will hit a creep beside you or which appears outside its path) & splash hit-box increased (it's deceptively small/rigid at times).

dosavian1 votes

Solution to your problem: Allow Harrier to instantly switch to whoever is targetted (left clicked). that way harrier won't be wasted on a minicreep.

I wanna side with your suggestions, but I've been using those clunky mechanics to my advantage, so it's hard to flat out promote a nerf.

Her autoattack animation is frustrating at times when it's delayed. Sometimes it sounds like the shot is fired, but Quinn didn't fire anything. Due to this, She can lose trades that should've been won.

JohnnyLkt1 votes

I'm strongly agree with you and your idea, but I think that if you would add a passive on her W would be nice, for example increase her attack speed or increase her vision.(vision area) since she is a partner with a bird and her character must be keen and sensitivity. That's what I thought:) thank you!

Eyrgos1 votes

Interesting point! I just had this idea based off of what you said...

What if Valor could passively see into nearby bushes without having to enter them.

Holy Sh*t that would be awesome.

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