Kindred has a 55% winrate right now.

YoungFarmer·Apr 25, 2016·4 votes·534 views

So yah shes worth a ban. Cough nerf Cough

8 Comments

TormentulaApr 25, 20162 votes

Check the PBE, they're doubling their Q cooldown during W.

(Honestly that might make them completely hard to jungle with.. all they really needed was a stack max point and less of a slow on their E)

VscaraApr 25, 20161 votes

I'm getting feeling that with every nerf this champion is getting far more gutted than it's really necesarry, the most of the kindred winratio comes of the flexibility of this champion, it can be either build to delete squishies or to deal with tanks. And still i get the feelig that people don't know how to play against kin.

TormentulaApr 25, 20161 votes

Well honestly, it's tough...

The problem with dealing with kindred, is you don't know what it's going to do. Every time I play elise and have to jungle against kindred, I have to ask myself:

Will kindred invade me level 2? Will I be able to catch kindred out in the river doing the first mark and kill them, or will I die trying to take it first? Will kindred level 2 gank a lane after red? Mid lane is marked, is she really going to ever go mid? I got scuttle on drag, but will kindred know to jump over the wall and do it so I can't see? I just ganked a lane and me an my laner are low now, is kindred going to get a free mark and double kill here? Where is this mark going to spawn so I can bait/avoid that location? Who do I CC? Kindred, the ADC, the fed mid laner cause he got a level 2 gank?

It's not "How do i deal with kindred" it's "what is kindred going to do that i have to deal with this game" that makes it tough. One game a kindred could feed or just farm most of the time, the next game a kindred could do something completely different and tower dive everyone and live. It's not a one trick champion that you can counter play around, or even like shaco, a champ you can predict and play mindgames with using wards, it's a champ that has the ability to do whatever it wants, where ever it wants, at any given moment. That's why it needs a nerf, as it's currently unpunishable and versitile at the same time.

The win/r connects with kindreds usually around 60% banrate.

VscaraApr 26, 20161 votes

Even if kin want to invade you at lvl 2 it would be stupid beyond belief, with lvl3 powerspike kin is too weak to invade earlier so even as a tank jungler you can 1v1 kin when they're at lvl 2. Kindred won't gank until lvl 3, first mark is almost always either a scuttle crab, or the birds and it's always camp that is still alive obviously. Clearing jungle marks is vital, if your team can play safe you deny kindred huge power by just clearing those camps, first mark is set always around 2:30 minutes and is always marked on the map. you can control the marks to spawn only inside your jungle by simply killing scuttle crabs, and i mean both of them.

Kin don't want to waste mark early, and it takes 8 s for mark to apply on target so if somebody is low then he has a plenty of time to back. Kindred is squishy as hell, the only reason they can keep up in jungle is their q that let them kite camps easy.

Most of the times kindred want to start at the krugs > birds > crab if marked > red and then gank.

And "What is x champion going to do" mind game goes the same for every jungler, you overextend you need to expect incomming gank.

Kindred is extreamally easy to punish, any champion that can get into mele range can destroy them in almost every phase of the game.

There is some psychological play in marking the target's but it's always lane fault to overextend with the mark on their head leaving them open for gank, often without even warding the river.

In teamfights kin is easy countered by displacement champions that can pull, or push her out of the ult zone. Kin is ultra vunerable to CC considering not really long AA range and the fact that they can't cast ult when under crowd control unlike tryndamere.

it's heavy aa reliant champion, thornmail on tanks is really appreciated. and of course it should be considered your main or secondary target in teamfights as any other adc.

I just think people just don't even try to learn how to play champion they have problem to counter, don't be supprised when hypercarry destroys your team if you don't deal with him early.

TormentulaApr 26, 20161 votes

Level 2 invades are not stupid in the slightest, actually pretty regular with kindred, infact a lot of kindreds level 2 gank after they do red buff. When I play kindred first thing I'll do is krugs, red, and then go bot lane and either first blood or force summoners/CS loss at the start of the game, then just start going back to jungling like nothing happened. Others choose to level 2 mid lane but I'm not good enough with kindred myself to ever position and secure a mid kill, maybe I'm just unlucky.

Level 2 invades are not that difficult, and actually pretty secure as kindred can chase you pretty far with QW, the E slow isn't really needed in a level 2 v 2 scenario (you lack your third ability too) as they still deal tons of damage and have the enemy jungle at an uncomfortable state with damage already taken from their buff. I've warded bushes, pulled buffs into the bush, but a kindred invade more often than not still succeeds in atleast forcing me to flash even when I knew they were coming, but I couldn't do anything about it. The fact I had a bush warded, seen them right there, started running from my buff, and still get chased to the point of flashing or dying is pretty stupid broken, granted a lot of champs can do this like xin, atleast you can get away or collasp on him by mid/bot, but kindred can just jump drag pit wall unpunished and move on. Same case if blue side but riskier. I think that's what this nerf is intended for, it makes it so kindred can't murder you and literally win the game 2 minutes in, they can't chase you to the point of wasting flash and still dying early on, hence 4 second CDR on Q.

They're vurnable to CC, but not close combat, I main kha'zix, nocturne, and skarner, and even played talon mid lane, and I was never successful in 1v1ing kindred as if I do go on them, they'll kite me to hell with Q, or E slow, and at 6 that ult makes them 1v1 assassins pretty well. Granted skarner does well late game and can disposition ult in teamfights, but if we're saying a tank can deal with kindred early pre-6, it's a lie. I can fight kindred as elise (if they're not doing the mentioned level 2 which I completely lose against without E) but assassins are actually pretty screwed over by kindred.. yes they're an ADC so assassins should 1shot, but an ADC that never dies and has an escape to kite an assassin eventually killing it is a bit much. QSS is a thing too.

I main kindred, i know their strengths and weaknesses as a kindred player, but the moment I see one on the enemy team its very stressful and overwhelming to handle. I have no problems with people building thornmail as if I got hunt stacks, and a last whisper, it won't matter anyway, especially with LS. They might as well be a jungling vayne, but with substain.

I just have the feeling you haven't encountered a gold or higher elo kindred player, they're very easy to screw up with but a good kindred is very very destructive and almost autowin up in that elo assuming they're smart enough to use wards or not get marks in the enemy jungle without knowing where the jungler is.

EndlessSorcererApr 25, 20161 votes

They might be nerfing her both for her current power and pre-emptively for when Bloodrazor replaced Devourer.

Still a bit extreme, but that might be the reason.

VscaraApr 26, 20161 votes

I still think devourer gives kindred much more overall power than bloodrazor will do, but it will clearly strenghten their early game tho, so i see that may be the case indeed.