So redemption was a mistake, outright.

LatetotheRace·Dec 29, 2016·4 votes·599 views

Can we please take a step back and disable it for a patch or two. What the hell is going on.

37 Comments

IsoVhellDec 29, 20163 votes

Window lickers everywhere!

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

What a bizarre phrase. But it's -#notanargument, try again next time.

IsoVhellDec 29, 20161 votes

Day time, night time! lmao

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20161 votes

A broken clock is right twice a day.

IsoVhellDec 29, 20161 votes

Fix it then!

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

nah, i think the only thing that would make it more healthy is limiting it to supports, I'm not sure how that would work but in ranked and draft only the person with the designated support role would be able to buy it, only set back back is trading in higher elos so adding the ability to "role swap" instead of if you trade champs the person you traded with becomes support. I't is a really good support item if used correctly and can even be used to steal baron or drag if the enemy jg doesn't have smite

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

Only supports build it.

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

wrong, i see tanks building it for extra sustain in a long fight top lane and it is a core item on Ivern jg

sheldonbunnyDec 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

wrong, i see tanks building it for extra sustain in a long fight top lane and it is a core item on Ivern jg

Ivern is a support jungler so it works for him. Nothing wrong with that.

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

What part of support was unclear? It doesn't matter where they're located, it's almost a 100% support exclusive item.

sheldonbunnyDec 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What part of support was unclear? It doesn't matter where they're located, it's almost a 100% support exclusive item.

Where it sounded like you were complaining about it being used on Ivern. whose core build are support items as jungler.

{quoted}

It's a support item and it makes support a feel good role because the ones without real play potential can now make plays, Redemption is riots way to compensate for people not liking support

...supports were already making plays before that. No idea what game you're playing, lol.

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

He is in essence the bard of the jungle. Nothing more than an over glorified support with a support of his very own. If you're so insistent on him being a support, then I don't understand how you assumed I wasn't including him in the all-encompassing term "support."

sheldonbunnyDec 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He is in essence the bard of the jungle. Nothing more than an over glorified support with a support of his very own. If you're so insistent on him being a support, then I don't understand how you assumed I wasn't including him in the all-encompassing term "support."

He was defined by riot as a support jungler hence my using the correct terminology. Beyond that silly little back and forth, I see no issue with the item. It will inevitably have it's stats tweaked like all new items put out.

The idea is a solid one and brought an interesting new concept into the game. Heaven forbid anything shakes up the game from time to time.

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20161 votes

My main problem is that it does TOO much. You can both heal and damage both teams a set amount, that is unalterable. If it were to heal while alive or damage when dead(or vise versa) then I think we'd be going somewhere, but as it stands I feel it's just too strong.

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

so heal and damage both teams, this item offers a lot of counterplay. Just displace the people inside of it so they don't get the heal or walk out of it so you don't take the damage.

the 10% health true damage is a bit much but the cd is more than a majority of the ults

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20161 votes

The damage isn't the problem, it's the healing. "150 - 490 (based on target's level" May not sound like much, but you throw 500 hp at a marksman and that's going to get stuff done. Not to mention many supports already have shields and heals. You're not going to kill them. This added to a meta where marksmen are already draining like crazy was a terrible mistake. If we could cut back on marksmen sustain then maybe this item will be fine.

Also if you build item 2045 it's down to 90 seconds.

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

Tanks will only ever build it if both top laners do no damage. You're not going to pick it into most comps at all. So no, it's pretty much a support specific item. (I built it top lane for the first week or so, and now I have yet to see any top laner build it including me.)

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

It's a support item and it makes support a feel good role because the ones without real play potential can now make plays, Redemption is riots way to compensate for people not liking support

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure the walking CC/harass champions or the mega tank play making champions are already a real play making role. If you think otherwise, please explain where you've come up with this conclusion.

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

there's a reason that support is the lest desired role, these new items are a way to make people want to play support

LatetotheRaceDec 29, 20161 votes

BUT WHY? "please explain where you've come up with this conclusion." Sir

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

I'm not sure why support is the least desirable role, I enjoy support and am a support main. The reason riot felt the need to add items that make support more powerful while not giving direct buff's that would lead them to becoming solo laners (karma and lulu for example due to the amount of cc they have ) is to get more people to play the role, the shortage of support's is also what cause autofill to make ques shorter, that's why when you get filled you are probably going to get support and why playing support gives you immunity to autofill.

chipndip1Dec 29, 20161 votes

Can people stop acting like support is akin to jg? You can't just lock out support items like jg items.

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

the locking out jg items hasn't worked. Top laners taking smite to get challenging smite has started becoming more popular, having an exhaust on a lower cd comes in handy during a trade

chipndip1Dec 29, 20161 votes

Season 5 is that-a-way, sir.

MatthewRT2Dec 29, 20161 votes

but this is season 7 and high win rate builds in korea on darius and a few other tanky damage dealers are using it and soon the trickle down effect will land those builds in NA just like the armor pen adc builds. If certain items were locked to supports there wouldn't be champions abusing this that aren't in the support role

Reaper SorakaDec 29, 20161 votes

Seasons like 2-6 be like: You can support as any champion as long as you buy a sightstone!

Season 7 be like: You can support as any champion as long as you buy Redemption!

I love the insanity of this game. haha

sheldonbunnyDec 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=r6TcvTcx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-29T01:35:18.538+0000)

Seasons like 2-6 be like: You can support as any champion as long as you buy a sightstone!

Season 7 be like: You can support as any champion as long as you buy Redemption!

I love the insanity of this game. haha

Except not all supports build it. AP supports like Brand and Zyra don't. With my aggressive playstyle i'm unlikely to build it on Karma or Sona either. It's a great item, but by no means required. It can by played around and baited like everything else in the game.

VoraciousXDec 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except not all supports build it. AP supports like Brand and Zyra don't. With my aggressive playstyle i'm unlikely to build it on Karma or Sona either. It's a great item, but by no means required. It can by played around and baited like everything else in the game.

Redemption being baited will not really matter as long as champions aren't full health. It's still gonna do it's job effectively

SukishooDec 29, 20161 votes

I've seen some APs build it, but I don't even see all healers build it. Had a game where I ( Janna ) built it but the enemy Nami didn't. So it really just depends on what the person wants even if it is an amazing item :)

sheldonbunnyDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've seen some APs build it, but I don't even see all healers build it. Had a game where I ( ) built it but the enemy didn't. So it really just depends on what the person wants even if it is an amazing item :)

Absolutely true. I've played a lot of Janna lately and really think Redemption synergizes well on her. Nami definitely would benefit from it but as you said, it's by no means a requirement like a lot of people keep saying.

As for APs building it, I agree it's being done, but far rarer. I still prefer my aggressive playstyle personally. Makes me a happy little support.

SukishooDec 30, 20161 votes

I've even seen some tanks build it which is funny cause it synergies even less with them. Like when Braum or Leona take it was like "why?..." kind of like if the Healers take item 3109 , has that kind of effect.

sheldonbunnyDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've even seen some tanks build it which is funny cause it synergies even less with them. Like when or take it was like "why?..." kind of like if the Healers take , has that kind of effect.

Yeah I see Thresh take it a fair bit. It's not a terrible item on tank supports. I would by no means rush it on one but as a mid to late game item it couldn't hurt.

I'm mostly an AP and utility support myself so I have set mindsets and playstyles depending.

VoraciousXDec 29, 20161 votes

Support items in general are broken. I've went 11/6/15 in a game as Karma top lane with item 3107 item 3504 item 3222 item 3190 item 3158 item 3089 just to prove a point. Heal+Shield Power items shouldn't have 10% CDR attached to every single one, as well as mana regen and tank stats. Just about everyone who heals or shields is an enchanter. Now they can heal more WITHOUT much AP and be tanky.

Professor WardDec 30, 20161 votes

Its numbers will get tuned down 100% chance

LatetotheRaceDec 30, 20161 votes

"My main problem is that it does TOO much. You can both heal and damage both teams a set amount, that is unalterable. If it were to heal while alive or damage when dead(or vise versa) then I think we'd be going somewhere, but as it stands I feel it's just too strong."

sheldonbunnyDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"My main problem is that it does TOO much. You can both heal and damage both teams a set amount, that is unalterable. If it were to heal while alive or damage when dead(or vise versa) then I think we'd be going somewhere, but as it stands I feel it's just too strong."

I don't have a problem with it doing both. A tweaking of numbers should be more than sufficient. It's not like it wasn't tested on PBE enough. They were aware of the kind of impact it was going to have on games.